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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Herefordshire => Topic started by: fauves on Friday 16 October 15 20:14 BST (UK)
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Hello all,
This is a little bit of a long shot, but just wondering if anyone has any know-how on finding historic information on properties (build dates/original names/owners etc.)?
Our house is in Herefordshire and although I am a seasoned genealogist I haven't been able to get anywhere with it. The house is presumed to have been built c. 1700 as a parsonage/manse and is one of the few houses of its type in the vicinity (fairly typical symmetrical proportions, three stories and large windows) as the rest are almost entirely very small cottages, aside from some very large and old farmhouses. However, apart from a mention in the 1891-1911 census there is absolutely no record of it before this point. Every other house locally seems to have been recorded on at least one census before this, usually by name. The houses either side of ours is are often mentioned but ours is not.
I had wondered whether if our house was built by the church, maybe it was sold off and then left empty for a long period of time?
Any help much appreciated.
Fauves
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Hi Fauves and welcome to Rootschat, can you give details of your awareness of the house 1891/1911 and possibly census reference?
Keyboard86
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Hello and thanks for the welcome.
Not sure if I want the name of the house displayed, but the record I have to hand right now is from 1891, when the house was occupied by Elizabeth Powell, 69, Widowed and Living on Own Means along with daughter Jane and Granddaughter Ethel. (Reference RG12/4580)
I know the Powell's occupied the house for some time, although the house was later occupied by a William Williams and eventually his daughter Harriet who never married and lived here her entire life until around 1980.
Perhaps also useful is that I have the tithe map from the 1840s when the land surrounding the property - about 10-15 acres I think - presumably including the property - were owner by an Edmund Acton, although I have found no record of an Edmund Acton anywhere in the West Midlands or Wales other than one or two in Greater Manchester.
Many thanks.
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Have you tried contacting Land Registry that covers the area where the house is?
Carol
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Hi again see what you mean pre 1891 Full census ref 1891 RG12/4580/112/8 with Elizabeth Powell, 1901 William Williams RG13/5178/74/9
Priory Wood, Clifford
Keyboard86
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Do you have details of the '51 and '61 Census?
RG09 1829 53 2
HO107 1980 414 10
Richard Powell is listed on page 94 of the 1856 PO Directory of Herefordshire (Historical Directories online). But residence is not named.
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1841 reference HO107 419 5 5
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Have you checked British History on line?
www.british-history.ac.uk
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Have you tried contacting Land Registry that covers the area where the house is?
Carol
Hello
I haven't done that but when we purchased the house we were given all the available deeds and documents I think which only seemed to go back as far as the 60s/70s. The previous owner apparently lost the original title deeds, which I assume would've been very helpful! Do you know if perhaps land registry would have a copy?
Thanks
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Hi again see what you mean pre 1891 Full census ref 1891 RG12/4580/112/8 with Elizabeth Powell, 1901 William Williams RG13/5178/74/9
Priory Wood, Clifford
Keyboard86
I think the Powells moved from the South East up to our house sometime between 1885 and 1891. Interestingly there were Williams's living next door frequently throughout the 19th century, including I assume the 1901 William Williams ancestors. Thomas Jones owned Priory Wood Cottage (our neighbour) on the tithe maps and he also occupied the cottage at times throughout the 19th century.
Interestingly there is a Calvinistic chapel down the road that was built in the early 19th century. This was presumably very closely linked to the house if it had religious connections. Perhaps the owner of our house in the early 19th century was some kind of a overseer, a position made redundant by the building of the chapel? It might explain why the house suddenly became unoccupied and unrecorded, losing its original name in the process (forgotten?). It's quite a difficult place to heat so perhaps locals didn't want to live in it after the overseer/rector/etc. had left? Until the relatively affluent Londoners (Powells) moved in?
Thanks very much for the help. If it's any use at all our neighbouring property to the west is Priory Wood Cottage (William Williams), to the East is Oak Cottage (may have had a different name?), the South is Porking Cottage/Barn.
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Do you have details of the '51 and '61 Census?
RG09 1829 53 2
HO107 1980 414 10
Richard Powell is listed on page 94 of the 1856 PO Directory of Herefordshire (Historical Directories online). But residence is not named.
Hello
I have looked through them really thoroughly but got nowhere as our neighboring properties are often named but ours either renames unnamed (and therefore unidentifiable) or unoccupied.
It's just really weird because the house is very different to the others around us, mostly older and the original structure is bigger, but while the others are often named ours is a total and utter blank from 1841-1891.
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I really think the key might be "Edmund Acton" the landowner and possibly property owner in the 1840s although as the name doesn't turn up anywhere I wonder if it might be a pseudonym.
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http://www.melocki.org.uk/diocese/1712_Philip_Bisse.xls
An Ed. Acton turns up here and not too far away in Clun, shropshire. Dates don't add up though unless land can be owned after death?
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Is Colonel Powell one of your Powells
http://herefordshirepast.co.uk/news-from-the-past/clifford-news-from-the-past/
Mike
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Is Colonel Powell one of your Powells
http://herefordshirepast.co.uk/news-from-the-past/clifford-news-from-the-past/
Mike
Good stuff, thank you. Colonel Powell is probably the best guess the previous owners had for the inhabitants prior to 1880s. I don't think they were related to the post 1891 census Powells but they were the most prominent Priory Wood family in the late 18th-mid 19th century. I think it was Colonel Powell's mother, Louisa/Louise Powell (Du Buisson) who was presumed by the previous owners to have lived in the house, but I can't find any solid evidence and Colonel Powell lived in Hardwicke House/Court I think which is about a mile away. Maybe Louisa lived here alone though until her death in 1824?
Good info on them here. http://welshjournals.llgc.org.uk/browse/viewpage/llgc-id:1191402/llgc-id:1194563/llgc-id:1194622/getText
Maybe it would be good to find a link between the Powells and the Actons as perhaps the land changed hands between them sometime between 1824 and 1845? Interestingly the Methodist Chapel down the road (literally almost our neighbour) was built (or rebuilt?) in 1827, which may have coincided with the Powells selling the house/land to the Actons?
Sorry for making this even more complicated.. Maybe I should get all the facts down clearly!
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Complete wild shot but there is an Edmund Acton born Bedfordshire 4 April 1690, and an Acton female in hay on Wye in 1841 said to have been born in Bedfordshire in 1791
Mike
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Have you tried contacting Land Registry that covers the area where the house is?
Carol
Hello
I haven't done that but when we purchased the house we were given all the available deeds and documents I think which only seemed to go back as far as the 60s/70s. The previous owner apparently lost the original title deeds, which I assume would've been very helpful! Do you know if perhaps land registry would have a copy?
Thanks
It's worth a try...when I contacted them about an Inn that one of my ancestors ran in the 1880s...they sent me the ordinance survey maps from 1881,91 and 1901 when was still there with an overlay of how the redevelopment of the area is now. Copies of deeds are available for a £5 fee I believe as I applied for our house deeds before I realised that we already have them...I don't think they hold the originals anymore.
Carol
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Hi again, I would not dismiss entirely the Acton family in Manchester possibility, as the Edmund Acton b c 1833 looks to have been from a possibly well to do family?
Keyboard86
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If you look at old copies of Hereford Times and Hereford Journal (various online sites) you will find William Acton lived for over 20 years at Priory Wood late 1700s early 1800s. The property was passed onto his son also William a malster in Hay.
There are many descriptions of the property owned, which I suspect is your home, as it was advertised as being for rent.
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If you look at old copies of Hereford Times and Hereford Journal (various online sites) you will find William Acton lived for over 20 years at Priory Wood late 1700s early 1800s. The property was passed onto his son also William a malster in Hay.
There are many descriptions of the property owned, which I suspect is your home, as it was advertised as being for rent.
Incredibly I was looking at this exact information the precise moment your reply was emailed to me. I think this could be it. Thanks very much.
Thanks everyone for all the help. I really owe you guys one for this, just hope I might have nailed it finally!
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Hi again 1851 possible!?
William Acton 57 occ Maltster b Llanigon, Brecknockshire
Millina 65 Wife b Bosbury
Plus 4 Servants
Residing at Broad Street, Hay
Census ref HO107/2491/296/4
Still in Broad Street 1841
Census ref HO107/1370/ 10/9 / 11
In 1861 William has remarried a Mary aged 54 b Whipsnade, Bedfordshire residing at Yellow House, Broad Street
Census ref RG09/4225/6/5
Keyboard86
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Hi again 1851 possible!?
William Acton 57 occ Maltster b Llanigon, Brecknockshire
Millina 65 Wife b Bosbury
Plus 4 Servants
Residing at Broad Street, Hay
Census ref HO107/2491/296/4
Still in Broad Street 1841
Census ref HO107/1370/ 10/9 / 11
In 1861 William has remarried a Mary aged 54 b Whipsnade, Bedfordshire residing at Yellow House, Broad Street
Census ref RG09/4225/6/5
Keyboard86
Hello again,
This is definitely him and he was certainly the owner of our house! I have found a good few advertisements for the property in the Hereford journal, and I believe the house was called "Priory Wood House"?! This seems to tie in well with our neighbouring "Priory Wood Cottage".. Really interesting to note also that the house was obviously falling out of favour as the back kitchen became an office room and the four bedrooms became three with the servants bedrooms upstairs just called "attic space"..
Better keep digging! Seems to be quite a lot on William Acton, Maltster or Wm. Acton, Hay on Wye.
Thanks guys.
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Hello to everyone who is interested in William Acton of Hay,
I am William's GGGG Granddaughter and live in Australia. Firstly, I must acknowledge the Oswestry Genealogical Society for their assistance in locating this Roots Chat, as well as all the information provided to me by the Society.
I know of two William Actons. The senior William Acton (my GGGG Grandfather) was buried in Hay on May 2nd 1842 at the age of 82 years old. His wife's name was Ann Acton, although I do not know her maiden name at this time. He was known as Mr. William Acton Esq. He was a Maltster who was also a warden of the Anglican church in Hay. He did have three sons that I know of. His son William Acton stayed in Hay at the house and continued in the occupation of Maltster. Another son, Thomas Acton, moved to Wrexham where he was a Farmer and Commercial Traveller. A younger son, James Samuel Acton, is my GGG Grandfather who was baptised in Lanigon (Hay) on 13 December 1799. He followed his elder brother Thomas to Wrexham where he married an Ann Beardsworth in 1831. He was also a Maltster, as well as venturing into farming when he moved to Selattyn. Afterwards, James immigrated with his family to Bungaree, Victoria, Australia which is near Ballarat.
As far as I know, the family were quite wealthy, well educated, and held positions of considerable status in the community. Here in Australia, two of John's sons served as local Magistrates. One of his grandsons was the Air Vice Marshall of the Australian Air Force and so it goes on. The Actons tend to be very academic and studious. They make excellent lecturers, doctors, engineers and accountants, military officers and Supreme Court Judges. However, I must also add that we have plenty of everyday people in the family as well who do just as well at what they do i.e. working in a warehouse, housewives, salesmen etc. We just try to live good lives.
I really don't know how many children William and Ann Acton had. There is a rumour in the family that James or his father was the son of a Lord Acton. I have never established this. James' death notice states that he resided at Moreton Hall and Dorrington both of which are in Shropshire.
I am just wondering whether anyone would like to post a photo of William Acton's house. This would be thrilling to see where my GGGG Grandfather lived on Broad Street. It is marvellous that the house is still standing. Does anyone want more information ?
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Broad Street was formerly known as Wye Bridge Street
http://static1.squarespace.com/static/52278b1be4b0ca162dba7af0/t/538399aee4b08f61e7a66b9f/1401133486355/broadstreet.pdf
Refer to Page 25 for Actons.
I'm sure you will recognise a lot of buildings in this document I found.
Jeanne
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Hello Jeanne,
Thank you so much for posting the photo of my GGGG Grandfather William Acton's home. Now I completely understand why one of my younger Acton cousins who is an Engineer (typical profession for an Acton) builds Palladian homes in Victoria. We all love this architectural style. I will now send this photo to all my cousins. You have made some very senior Actons in their eighties and nineties very happy. We are all in Australia.
Regards,
Christine
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That's great! Pleased you found the one you wanted! I know I was very happy to find the houses where my families lived in London, Boston and Canada. All from Real Estate Websites actually, as I had the addresses to type into Google!
Houses haven't lasted that long in NZ yet! 😄
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Hello Jeanne,
Hello to New Zealand. You will notice my surname Lyttleton and recognise Port Lyttleton (although somewhere along the line someone spelled the surname wrongly on a certificate). By the way, James Acton came to Australia through New Zealand. He spent some time there I believe, but didn't find the farming the best. I don't know why, as the farming in New Zealand is marvellous.
Regards,
Christine
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One of my relatives was an Early settler to NZ. He came during the Gold Rush in Otago! Must have been successful, as he went on to own a lot of land, sheep runs, and his descendant families are still farming there.
Not everybody loves farming though of course!