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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: RobertWhaite on Tuesday 13 October 15 09:27 BST (UK)

Title: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: RobertWhaite on Tuesday 13 October 15 09:27 BST (UK)
Hi,I am looking for a marriage of a Robert Boyd to a Jane probably in Antrim or Down between 1832-1845.I have already found a Robert Boyd to an Anne Jane Barr in 1832 and Robert Boyd to Jane Ervine also in 1832. I used to get access to Rootsireland before it became a Subscription site. The ones I am looking for both died in Belfast in 1882.They had children Eliza Jane,Margaret,Mary,Samuel, John and Priscilla. I do have a marriage for John and Priscilla.They were both married in Elmwood Ave Presbyterian church. I did think that they were the same as Robert Boyd and Anne Jane ,as above but I have discovered that they are a different couple. I don't want to take out a subscription if the ones I am looking for are not on their file. Would appreciate any help
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 13 October 15 20:21 BST (UK)
This might be the church you mentioned- have you checked to see if anything relevant appears in their records?
http://www.nspresbyterian.org/churches/church06/churchdetail.htm
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: greeneyedgirl on Wednesday 14 October 15 05:50 BST (UK)
Hi, you were right not to get it when it became subscription. For Robert's marriage the only one they have is to Jane Ervine and I looked at a couple of births of their children  Samuel & Priscilla. For Samuel the only birth is 1838 to a Robert and Alice --- and for Priscilla the only birth is 1836 to Henry Boyd which makes me wonder if Henry & Robert may be related, possibly brothers as Priscilla is not a very commonly used forename. Kim
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: RobertWhaite on Monday 19 October 15 06:57 BST (UK)
Hi,I had a look at the church's site,nothing relevant there.
 Kim,thanks for that.and thanks for saving me money.
That's the trouble with Scots/Irish,they keep repeating the same names every generation and cousins as well. Robert,James,John and Samuel were pretty popular!! and Boyd is like Smith.

You could be right with Priscilla,it certainly does not follow the usual trend

Thanks for your help.

Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 02 August 18 13:36 BST (UK)
Having the same issues with my family tree my grandad was Samuel George Boyd born 1896 he had a brother David, Robert James who was the eldest and born 1886 and a sister Mary who married a William McClurg however he had a younger brother John who just disappeared. The mother and father were Samuel Boyd and his mother was Mary.

My grandad and Robert James joined the rifles in 1914 and I have found both service records saying they lived in Heather Street however Robert James didn't live with the parents in 1911 census so wondering if he got married also unsure of the mothers maiden name as no many Samuel and Mary Boyd's however wondered if any one could help with this. BTW my grandad moved from army to the navy in 1915 and also have his service record for this and a picture.
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 02 August 18 14:15 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat  :)

Samuel George Boyd's mother was Mary Carroll-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1896/02186/1827391.pdf

still typing...
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 02 August 18 14:26 BST (UK)
Thank you, I actually love you :-)

Anything else anyone know I will be most grateful
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Thursday 02 August 18 14:28 BST (UK)
Is this the family in 1901 census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/St__George_s_Ward_Belfast/Hilland_Street/955869/

And then in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Shankill/Harrison_Street/151535/

The 1911 census shows us that there was 7 children, and 4 are still living - being Samuel G, John, David and Mary
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 02 August 18 14:34 BST (UK)
Not quite straight-forward-

Samuel Boyd (c1863-aft.1911) m. Mary (c1864-aft.1911).
1901- Hilland St.; 1911- Harrison St.,; 1914- Heather St.
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/St__George_s_Ward_Belfast/Hilland_Street/955869 (Church of Ireland)
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Shankill/Harrison_Street/151535 m.26 ys, 7 ch./4 liv.
1.   Robert James Boyd (1886), eld.
2.   Mary Boyd (c1888) m. William McClurg (c1886)
     a.   Anna E. McClurg (c1909)
     b.   Mary McClurg (c1911)
3.   Samuel George Boyd (1896) https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1896/02186/1827391.pdf (11 Donegore St., mother Mary Carroll)
4.   John Henry Boyd (c1899-aft.1911)
5.   David Boyd (c1903-aft.1911)
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Thursday 02 August 18 14:36 BST (UK)
Other Children born to Boyd/Carroll

U/1896/57/1007/61/272 Samuel Boyd 21st January 1896 Male Carroll Belfast(pre-1973 Q4)
U/1896/49/1007/93/206 William Boyd 16th April 1896 Male Carroll Belfast(pre-1973 Q4)
U/1898/56/1007/7/22 Rosetta Boyd 5th July 1898 Female Carroll Belfast
U/1899/48/1007/77/147 Ellen Boyd 12th December 1899 Female Carroll Belfast
U/1904/49/1007/118/15 Mary Boyd 24th April 1904 Female Carroll
U/1907/49/1007/125/301 Mary Boyd 4th January 1907 Female Carroll Belfast(pre-1973 Q4)
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 02 August 18 14:39 BST (UK)
Other Children born to Boyd/Carroll

U/1896/57/1007/61/272 Samuel Boyd 21st January 1896 Male Carroll Belfast(pre-1973 Q4)
U/1896/49/1007/93/206 William Boyd 16th April 1896 Male Carroll Belfast(pre-1973 Q4)
U/1898/56/1007/7/22 Rosetta Boyd 5th July 1898 Female Carroll Belfast
U/1899/48/1007/77/147 Ellen Boyd 12th December 1899 Female Carroll Belfast
U/1904/49/1007/118/15 Mary Boyd 24th April 1904 Female Carroll
U/1907/49/1007/125/301 Mary Boyd 4th January 1907 Female Carroll Belfast(pre-1973 Q4)
I am in the process of eliminating them. I am beginning to suspect that mother Mary may also go under another surname.
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Thursday 02 August 18 14:42 BST (UK)
Also, Robert James (Who we know was alive post 1911 - as he was in the rifles in 1914) isn't listed in the 1911 census - and it states that only 4 children are living, all of who are living with with Mary and Samuel in the census
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 02 August 18 14:44 BST (UK)
Also, Robert James (Who we know was alive post 1911 - as he was in the rifles in 1914) isn't listed in the 1911 census - and it states that only 4 children are living, all of who are living with with Mary and Samuel in the census

It wasn't unheard of for people to answer that bit of the 1911 census incorrectly by putting number of children living in household rather than number of living children
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 02 August 18 14:57 BST (UK)
1918 directory- 27 Heather St., Samuel Boyd labourer
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/hcomplete1918.htm
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Thursday 02 August 18 15:08 BST (UK)
Minnie Boyd and William McClurg Wedding

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1910/09997/5635865.pdf

Their daughter Mary - https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01542/1624398.pdf


Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Thursday 02 August 18 15:32 BST (UK)
This could be a complete red herring

But I cannot find a birth for Mary or Robert born to A Samuel and a Mary, so I started looking for other births for Robert and Mary that would be related

But there is 2 births registered for a Robert (1884)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1884/02694/1992292.pdf
and a Mary (1887)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1887/02563/1948061.pdf

Both of the above are born to an Agnes Boyd - no father named

Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 02 August 18 15:58 BST (UK)
my grandad birthday on navy record is 25th April 1896

Thank you so much all this is great

Family story is David was shot with the IRA we have found a death certificate for this dated 1922 right age eta if its the right David Boyd
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 02 August 18 16:00 BST (UK)
my grandad birthday on navy record is 25th April 1896

Thank you so much all this is great

Family story is David was shot with the IRA we have found a death certificate for this dated 1922 right age eta if its the right David Boyd

I do wish you had mentioned this at the start. The Samuel George Boyd I found has a different birthdate  :-\
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 02 August 18 16:01 BST (UK)
Thank you Cwellan CoDown

 
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 02 August 18 16:02 BST (UK)
So sorry just had a chance to look properly the rest of the info I have sent over is all correct IE brothers army and navy

The birth document is dated 25th April I noticed is this incorrect ?
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 02 August 18 16:03 BST (UK)
There is no birth registered for a Samuel Boyd born 25 Apr.1896 in (present counties of) Northern Ireland and no Boyd child with that birthdate either.
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 02 August 18 16:07 BST (UK)
Thought we had him its funny the registration date is the 25th April though
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Thursday 02 August 18 16:11 BST (UK)
11/2/22. Prot. Boyd, David (18), Stanhope St. area.

The facts and figures - shows the above death for a David Boyd
https://archive.org/stream/factsfiguresofbe00kenn/factsfiguresofbe00kenn_djvu.txt

If you have the death certificate - what address is on this?

Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 02 August 18 16:13 BST (UK)
So far I haven't found a marriage for the parents or births of any other siblings of Samuel. Also, Mary's daughter Anna seems to be hiding but as Anna seems to be born before parents married perhaps Mary isn't her mother...
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 02 August 18 16:15 BST (UK)
11/2/22. Prot. Boyd, David (18), Stanhope St. area.

The facts and figures - shows the above death for a David Boyd
https://archive.org/stream/factsfiguresofbe00kenn/factsfiguresofbe00kenn_djvu.txt

Does this fit?
Northern Whig, 16 Sept.1922: BELFAST CLAIMS COURT.
 appeared for claimant.. Mr. J. Reid (instructed by Mr. J. Osborne) appeared in support a claim for £5OO by the relative.- of David Boyd (19), lIS, Lrney Street, who was murder'd 12th February last. A sister ... deceased said be was (he sole support of his ...

Belfast News-Letter, 16 Sept.1922: ...appeared in support of claim for £5OO the relatives of David Boyd (19). of 118. Dmcy Street, who was murdered... 12th February last. A sister of deceased said was the sole support his ...
 
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Thursday 02 August 18 16:17 BST (UK)
Also this


MAN FOUND WITH BULL.ET THROUGH 
 

... area, and in the same district there was lurther alter a of three-quarters hour. the cour.M? this outburst Protestant named David Boyd, 11£* Street, was in the stomach while he was standing at the corner Hanover Street and Cavour Street. On arrival at the ...

We have an address on this one

SUNDAY DISTURBANCES 
 

... and was replied to police in cage cars who were operating in the district. After the exchange of shots young man named David Boyd, aged 18 years, and residing 118, Urney Street, was picked up the comer Hanover Street and Cavour Street. _ He was shot ...

Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 02 August 18 16:18 BST (UK)
I found a marriage and did think it was right as it had Samuel as a widow it was to a Mary J Patterson on February 6th 1883 that might explain it
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 02 August 18 16:19 BST (UK)
That's the murder on the death certificate family story was a minister but he was shot outside the church
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 02 August 18 16:20 BST (UK)
Think the 1922 address should be 118 Urney St.- there's a Minnie McClurg there in 1924 directory-
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/tuvcomplete1924.htm

Have to make do dishes, get tea ready and clean up after a puppy that 1) wasn't going to live here and 2) wouldn't cause me ANY bother  ::) Will check back later  :)
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Thursday 02 August 18 16:21 BST (UK)
The name on the 1918 street directory for the address is

118. McClurg, Minnie

So it is the correct family we are looking at the census
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 02 August 18 16:30 BST (UK)
My mum just told me Minnie's married name was Parson. Mary Boyd daughter of Samuel and Mary married William McClurg  don't know Minnie's connection but my mum daughter of Samuel George Boyd born 1896 knew Minnie as an Aunt.

Sorry guys my Boyd family is confusing
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 02 August 18 16:50 BST (UK)
Minnie's daughter must have ended up being called Minnies also hence why she is known as her own married name and the confusion its the correct family.

Just need to find the maiden name of Mary wife of Samuel Boyd my grandad Samuel George Boyd's Dad

Also that's the correct murder of David Boyd, thank you

The marriage I thought it might be of Mary and Samuel was the maiden name of Patterson.

Also thought Robert James Boyd was killed in the war as found a record of this also. My grandad named his sons after all his brother David and my Uncle Samuel after himself and a William James after Robert James who was listed in army inscription under James but no John at all. My uncle David has a middle name of Cowan and do wonder is this is signficant
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 02 August 18 17:00 BST (UK)
Anna survived according to my mum she was frightening and used to come over to Scotland with Minnie both known as she Aunts but she new her as Aunty Annie.

On another note my grandad married my gran in 1942 they met during the war when he was 46 and settled in Scotland
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Thursday 02 August 18 17:02 BST (UK)
I seen the wedding for Samuel Boyd and Mary Patterson - however there doesn't seem to be any children born to this couple.

The only Boyd children born, MMN Patterson are in 5 Edward street - and the father is John and mother Eliza

I think the clue to this all is to find David's birth certificate - as he was born between the census dates, so the chances of the address being familiar is high, and also the DOB seems to be reasonably consistent with the age 18 on his death
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Thursday 02 August 18 17:13 BST (UK)
Did your granddad die in Scotland?

If so - the death certificate will have the mothers maiden name on it (if known)

Also - did they marry in Scotland or NI - as I believe a Scottish marriage certificate also shows more details

Edit - have just checked for a NI wedding - is this it?
M/1942/B1/487/3/78 Samuel Boyd Barr 7th January 1942 Belfast
M/1942/B1/487/3/78 Muriel Barr Boyd 7th January 1942 Belfast
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 02 August 18 17:16 BST (UK)
Thank you sounds like a plan

its def the right death as thanks to you guys I just rechecked a newspaper article my brother found on the death and its 118 Urney Street Minnies address and they all must have continued living together after 1911
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Thursday 02 August 18 17:21 BST (UK)
Is this his death

BOYD

SAMUEL GEORGE

64 (Age)
1960 (Year)
632/2 18 (Reference)
Forth and Haywood (Area)

The certificate is available on Scotlands People for 6 credits (About £3 I think)
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 02 August 18 17:24 BST (UK)
That's my grandad for sure
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 02 August 18 17:26 BST (UK)
my grans name is Nellie Boyd and they married in Birmingham she was there during the war didn't even think I could get the marriage certificate
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Thursday 02 August 18 17:31 BST (UK)
You have to order the marriage certificate - they may be able to send by PDF in email

The death certificate is where is would start though -as its available online
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/record-results?search_type=People&surname=Boyd&forename=Samuel&forename_so=exact&from_year=1942&to_year=2018&surname_so=exact&record_type=stat_deaths
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 02 August 18 17:43 BST (UK)
Thank you will do it now bought loads from Ireland haven't even thought about Scotland. Think as David's death certificate didn't have mothers name on it, I didn't think this was routine
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Thursday 02 August 18 17:48 BST (UK)
Mothers maiden name was routine in Scotland from the early days of civil registration, but not in the rest of the UK unfortunately
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 02 August 18 17:55 BST (UK)
Her name was Mary Brown

Next mystery is what happened to John Boyd her son  :o
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Thursday 02 August 18 17:59 BST (UK)
Here is John's birth certificate -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1899/02032/1778942.pdf

Mary & Samuels wedding certificate seems to be missing from Irish Genealogy but is available on GRONI
M/1885/E1/1751/3/19 Mary Brown Boyd 2nd July 1885 Lisburn
M/1885/E1/1751/3/19 Saml. Boyd Brown 2nd July 1885 Lisburn

There seems to be more missed from Irish Genealogy but here as some possible births (Taken from GRONI)

U/1888/225/1018/13/143 Mary Boyd 28th December 1887 Female Brown Lisburn(pre-1973 Q4) - missing on Irish Genealogy

U/1888/51/1007/33/428 William Boyd 6th August 1888 Male Brown Belfast(pre-1973 Q4)

/1891/57/1007/47/355 Samuel Boyd 13th December 1890 Male Brown Belfast(pre-1973 Q4)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1891/02402/1895958.pdf

U/1893/57/1007/57/131 Samuel Boyd 6th September 1893 Male Brown Belfast(pre-1973 Q4)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02296/1861521.pdf

U/1894/48/1007/58/363 Henry Boyd 11th May 1894 Male Brown Belfast(pre-1973 Q4) - can't find cert on Irish Genealogy

U/1898/59/1007/13/78 Thomas Boyd 1st June 1898 Male Brown Belfast(pre-1973 Q4) - Not relevant

U/1901/59/1007/16/117 Marion Boyd 22nd July 1901 Female Brown Belfast(pre-1973 Q4)

U/1904/58/1007/28/406 Margaret Boyd 24th March 1904 Female Brown Belfast(pre-1973 Q4)


U/1907/49/1007/127/256 Maggie Boyd 4th August 1907 Female Brown Belfast(pre-1973 Q4)

It is interesting that the first Samuel Boyd, born 1890, was named Samuel Cowan Boyd, I assume he died. and then the later Samuel Boyd is your grandfather (And his father is also listed as Samuel Cowan Boyd)
Edit - death certificate for baby Samuel - https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1892/06021/4714496.pdf
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 02 August 18 18:07 BST (UK)
Thank you

That's fantastic, I will also see if I can find Marys birth certificate although with a name like brown may end up back in Scotland
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 02 August 18 18:35 BST (UK)
Burial for a Minnie McClurg of 114 Urney St, aged 2 4/12 in 1913-
https://dof.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7615.27445
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 02 August 18 18:39 BST (UK)
My Uncle David still living is David Cowan Boyd and my mums other brother is Samuel George they have kept the names going
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 02 August 18 18:47 BST (UK)
James West died 1930 (118 Urney St.)-
https://dof.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=6871.5386
Samuel Cowan Boyd died 1935-
https://dof.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=6599.9313
David Cowan Boyd died 1939-
https://dof.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7029.13119
Mary Boyd died 1941-
https://dof.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7041.14424
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Thursday 02 August 18 18:50 BST (UK)
Burial records for
https://dof.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialSearch.aspx?GraveSection=D1&GraveNumber=156&CemeteryName=City Cemetery - Glenalina Extension


Samuel Cowan  Boyd  3 10/12 Years 10 June      1935  13 June      1935  City Cemetery - Glenalina Extension  View details  (Address is given as 118 Urney Street)
Mary  Boyd  79 Years 9 March     1941  12 March     1941  City Cemetery - Glenalina Extension  View details  ((Address is given as 118 Urney Street))
David Cowan  Boyd  19 Years 24 October   1939  26 October   1939  City Cemetery - Glenalina Extension  View details  (Military Hospl Palace Bks Holywood 90 Urney St )
 James  West  49 Years 11 July      1930  14 July      1930  City Cemetery - Glenalina Extension  View details  (Mater Hospital 118 Urney St)

Unfortunately, the birth details for the above Samuel Cowan Boyd and David Cowan Boyd are too recent for the records to be online.

As for Mary Boyd - this is likely Mary Brown?

James West - his death certificate might indicate his relationship with the family (The notifier could be listed as a relation
 
 
 
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 02 August 18 18:53 BST (UK)
I wonder who the other David was and who’s son as my grandad brother got shot at 18 unless Robert James had children
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 02 August 18 18:56 BST (UK)
Unless right death wrong certificate and he is actually son of David and the story is wrong
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Thursday 02 August 18 19:00 BST (UK)
The death certificate is available online on GRONI
https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/search/death

D/1939/69/1007/13/260 David Boyd 24th October 1939 19  Male Belfast(pre-1973 Q4)

Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 02 August 18 20:23 BST (UK)
The death must be Mary Brown I had her younger but her age varies between the two census she must wanted to be younger

What a shame about baby Samuel two died
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 02 August 18 20:37 BST (UK)
Got David Cowan Boyd's death certificate he was a private on HMS Forward when he died still don't know who his dad was John or Robert James or even my grandad any help appreciated

Just keep adding mysteries
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 02 August 18 20:57 BST (UK)
Mary Browns dad was Richard Brown and Samuel Boyds dad was Hugh Boyd
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 03 August 18 09:01 BST (UK)
Still going over yesterday's posts again but may have found more on Robert James after re-reading "Robert James who was listed in army inscription under James"

Could this be Robert James?

James Boyd, son of Samuel, m.(1910) Annie Thompson
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1910/09980/5628955.pdf (85 Argyle St.)
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Wood_Vale_Ward/Argyle_Street/293373
1. Jane Boyd (1911) https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01532/1621057.pdf (94 Argyll St.)
2. Margaret Minnie Boyd (1913) https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01465/1597784.pdf (168 Conway St.)
3. Thomas James Boyd (1914) https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1914/01397/1574634.pdf (156 Conway St., father labourer now soldier)

Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Friday 03 August 18 09:37 BST (UK)
Your a start that def looks like he did get married as I thought and have a wife and got a feeling David Cowan is also his son. My grandad seems to been have close to his brother ten years older and lived with him and named his own sons after him.

Looking got Hugh Boyd’s details in the Census just now and would like to find John
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Friday 03 August 18 09:38 BST (UK)
That was your a star
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 03 August 18 09:40 BST (UK)
If James Boyd of Argyll St. is your Robert James Boyd then things have just gotten a lot more complicated. Still checking and re-checking….

Meanwhile, do you have any military details for him- especially date enlisted, rank and details of wife or children?
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Friday 03 August 18 09:49 BST (UK)
It might not be him I suppose like everything need to be sure

All I have is

http://eddiesextracts.com/rohpci/rohwoodvalepk.html


I looked up the address on my grandads army enlistment which was 27 heather street and I took me to this page and Robert James is down as James under the same address saying he joined the 13th Batt Royal Irish Rifles my grandad was the 15th hated it and moved to the navy but no more on Robert James
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Friday 03 August 18 09:51 BST (UK)
My grandad signed up on the 27th April 1915 so two days after his 19th birthday not sure about Robert James who was ten years older than him and born around 1886
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 03 August 18 09:58 BST (UK)
Oh dear, oh dear  :o

Marriage of Robert Taylor of Heather St., Belfast, to Margaret McCarthy in Ballymena on 8 Jan.1905-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1905/10149/5692787.pdf

Belfast News-Letter, 17 May 1905: ... young man named Robert James Boyd was brought in custody, charged by District-Inspector J. 0. Milling with having, at Ballymena the 8th January last, married Margaret during the life of his wife, Margaret Ann Boyd. [other scan shows wife as Martha Ann not Margaret Ann]

Northern Whig, 15 July 1905: BIGAMY CASE. Extraordinary Circumstances. Robert James Boyd pleaded guilty to the charge of bigamy at Ballymena the 8th June, by going through the form of marriage with one Maggie Macartney ...

Belfast News-Letter, 8 Sept.1905: THE RECENT BALLYMENA BIGAMY CASE. CHARGE OF PERJURY. James Clarke defended. Rev. H. G. Austin deposed to marrying the accused to Robert Taylor, who afterwards turned out to be Robert James Boyd. Mary Ann Boyd stated that her husband's name was Robert James Boyd. While they were living in Argyle Street, Belfast, the accused called frequently at their house. She knew witness was married Robert James Boyd. Sergeant de...
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 03 August 18 10:02 BST (UK)
A Robert James Boyd married 1902 Belfast to Martha Ann O'Hara- but gives father as Robert James Boyd!
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1902/10260/5734193.pdf


Back to Annie (Thompson) Boyd-
1918- 168 Conway St.: Annie Boyd http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/ccomplete1918_b.htm
1924- same http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/ccomplete1924_b.htm
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Friday 03 August 18 10:39 BST (UK)
Oh Dear  :o

Loads of murder and scandal with the Boyd's my grandad looks a saint.

So two wife's to be honest actually thought it might be my grandad with an irish wife tucked away

you have been fantastic.

Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Friday 03 August 18 10:52 BST (UK)
This has been a very interesting family history!

Glad to have been involved!
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Friday 03 August 18 11:02 BST (UK)
Thank you,

Just need to find both parents Hugh and Richard now and the missing brother John and might find more mystery
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Friday 03 August 18 12:22 BST (UK)
What details are on the Marriage certificate, what is the occupation of both fathers?

What is the bride and grooms address?

Who are the witnesses?

The more we have the easier Hugh and Richard will be to find!
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Friday 03 August 18 12:27 BST (UK)
Hugh Boyd - Labourer
Richard Brown - Labourer

Presbyterian Church can't make out the town of residence at all

Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Friday 03 August 18 12:28 BST (UK)
Witnesses

Janet Johnston
Jamie Nelson
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Friday 03 August 18 12:29 BST (UK)
Can you post a screenshot or image of the town of residence - as it will help
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Friday 03 August 18 12:42 BST (UK)
I will try it won't let me with the image I have so will need to try and convert the file

It looks like Wil *** Mautckin but that's not even a town to my knowledge bear with me
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Friday 03 August 18 12:43 BST (UK)
Parish of Wiomaus at the top in Co down ??
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Friday 03 August 18 12:49 BST (UK)
There should be a sub registration district - the registration district is Lisburn,

So the subregistration is likely to be one of the following
(Dunmurry[ANT,DOW], Glenavy[ANT], Knocknadona[ANT],
Lisburn[ANT,DOW], Annahilt[DOW], Balylesson[DOW], Hillsborough[DOW],
Saintfield[DOW])

This should be at the top of the certificate.

Then a townland or street should be listed as place of residence for each party in the main body of the cert

Finally, the church and parish should also be inlcuded

Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Friday 03 August 18 12:58 BST (UK)
ITs dromara parish I ended up calling the record office
 the 1st parish
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Friday 03 August 18 12:59 BST (UK)
The woman really helped and said the writing is bad so

Dromara Parish and she is going to see if anyone in the office can help make out the residence for me
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Friday 03 August 18 13:01 BST (UK)
The parish is a good start

Here is the history of this parish and in 1877 there was only 55 families in it!

http://lisburn.com/churches/Lisburn-churches/first-dromara-presbyterian-church.html
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Friday 03 August 18 13:03 BST (UK)
Thank you in the main body it looks like Dromara with kin to me but all joined up  but I may be wrong
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Friday 03 August 18 13:21 BST (UK)

Type
Civil Marriages

Date of Marriage
02/07/1885

Husband's Name
SAMUEL BOYD

Husband's Address
DRUMAKNOCKAN

Husband's Occupation
LABOURER

Husband's Age
FA

Husband's Denomination
Presbyterian

Husband's Marital Status
Bachelor (Previously unmarried)

Husband's Father's Name
HUGH BOYD

Husband's Father's Occupation
LABOURER


 

Husband's Witness
JAMES JOHNSTON


 

Wife's Name
MARY BROWN

Wife's Address
DRUMAKNOCKAN


 

Wife's Age
FA

Wife's Denomination
Presbyterian

Wife's Marital Status
Spinster (Previously unmarried)

Wife's Father's Name
RICHARD BROWN

Wife's Father's Occupation
LABOURER


 

Wife's Witness
ANNE NELSON


 


 

Comment
BY LICENCE E EAKIN. 

Address 1
DROMARA 1ST Presbyterian

Address 2
LISBURN

Address 3
DROMARA
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Friday 03 August 18 13:24 BST (UK)
Thank you 😊
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 03 August 18 13:24 BST (UK)
https://www.townlands.ie/down/dromore/drumaknockan/
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Friday 03 August 18 13:27 BST (UK)
I have checked the census (1901 and 1911) and the Griffith valuation (c 1860) and there is no Browns or Boyds listed in Drumaknockan

or nothing in 1882 to 1889 in the valuation books
https://apps.proni.gov.uk/Val12B/ImageResult.aspx

Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Friday 03 August 18 13:31 BST (UK)
Thank you

It might be they moved around

Been trying to find Robert James on his various different names to see if he is David Cowans dad but also looks like he didn’t fill in A census 
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Friday 03 August 18 13:38 BST (UK)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Wood_Vale_Ward/Argyle_Street/293373

Is this not him in 1911?
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Friday 03 August 18 14:30 BST (UK)
Not another wife, lol Hopefully it isn't or might be a triple bigamy
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Friday 03 August 18 14:30 BST (UK)
Its the correct age
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Friday 03 August 18 14:37 BST (UK)
The details of this marriage and children were posted yesterday

Still going over yesterday's posts again but may have found more on Robert James after re-reading "Robert James who was listed in army inscription under James"

Could this be Robert James?

James Boyd, son of Samuel, m.(1910) Annie Thompson
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1910/09980/5628955.pdf (85 Argyle St.)
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Wood_Vale_Ward/Argyle_Street/293373
1. Jane Boyd (1911) https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01532/1621057.pdf (94 Argyll St.)
2. Margaret Minnie Boyd (1913) https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01465/1597784.pdf (168 Conway St.)
3. Thomas James Boyd (1914) https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1914/01397/1574634.pdf (156 Conway St., father labourer now soldier)
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Friday 03 August 18 14:43 BST (UK)
I was alos thinking that Bigamy carries a sentence of up to 7 years - so perhaps Robert was in prison at the time of the 1911 census?

Prison census records are recorded by initials only
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Friday 03 August 18 14:59 BST (UK)
I also searched for a burial, and found a Robert James Boyd buried in 1948 and a Nellie Brown in the same grave (remember his mother is Mary Brown..)

The ages don't add up - but ages are death certs aren't usually accurate


Eleanor  Boyd  59 Years 22 January   1935  24 January   1935  City Cemetery - Glenalina Extension  View details 
 
 
Robert James  Boyd  75 Years 30 October   1948  2 November  1948  City Cemetery - Glenalina Extension  View details 
 
 
Nellie  Brown  17 Years 25 July      1924  28 July      1924  City Cemetery - Glenalina Extension  View details 
 
 
Annie  Selby  58 Years 11 December  1925  14 December  1925  City Cemetery - Glenalina Extension  View details 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Friday 03 August 18 15:46 BST (UK)
Thank you he must have got out by 1915 to join the Army already have Mary's death so not sure if those are accurate. I wonder what happen to the brother John.
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Friday 03 August 18 16:35 BST (UK)
Update on Robert James he ran away to Glasgow when caught with illegal wife then went back to his wife who took him back they had children in the house it states at this time he got 3 months hard labour and trial was July 1905
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 03 August 18 17:27 BST (UK)
Annie  Selby  58 Years 11 December  1925  14 December  1925  City Cemetery - Glenalina Extension
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Dock_Ward/Upper_Meadow_Street/137802
Alexander Selby married Annie Brown, daughter of James Brown-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1900/10341/5764935.pdf
Alexander Selby died 1915-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1915/05268/4461925.pdf
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 03 August 18 17:35 BST (UK)
Eleanor  Boyd  59 Years 22 January   1935  24 January   1935  City Cemetery - Glenalina Extension

?
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Ormeau/Woodstock_Road/218466
Florence Mary Boyd, daughter of a sea captain & Eleanor Bell-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1908/01637/1654474.pdf
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Monday 06 August 18 09:50 BST (UK)
Thank you

Sorry I was away from the weekend just on this again this morning seeing what I can find
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Monday 06 August 18 13:41 BST (UK)
Back on it today

Samuel Boyd 1862's dad was Hugh Boyd and found his their marriage his mother was May Cowan and her father was Samuel Cowan hence that's why all the Cowan surnames.

Hugh Boyd's dad was Robert Boyd hence Robert James.

Just need to see how far back i can go now
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Monday 06 August 18 13:41 BST (UK)
That was Mary Cowan
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Wednesday 08 August 18 15:04 BST (UK)
I was just thinking about this

AS you have the address from the burial records of 118 Urney Street (Samuel Cown Boyd - died 1935)

And also David C Boyd of 90 Urney Street in 1939

You could apply for the details of who else was in the house in the 1939 Register (Although it will only give living people)

Use the enquiry form in the link
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/forms/proni-enquiry
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Wednesday 08 August 18 15:11 BST (UK)
Is this the marriage details you have for Hugh Boyd and Mary Cowan


Name:
Hugh Boyd

Gender:
Male

Age:
25

Birth Date:
1827

Marriage Date:
1 Jan 1852

Marriage Place:
Magheradroll, Down, Ire

Father:
 Robert Boyd   

Spouse:
 Mary Cowan   

FHL Film Number:
101335

Reference ID:
2:3R6382H
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Wednesday 08 August 18 15:26 BST (UK)
That’s the right marriage record , I wondered how the cowans fitted in it looks like old mr Cowan remarried and had youngest kids same age as his daughters
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Wednesday 08 August 18 15:35 BST (UK)
There also seems to ne a Hugh Harbinson Boyd married to a Margaret Cowan - I wonder if there is any connection?
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Wednesday 08 August 18 15:55 BST (UK)
What years ?
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Wednesday 08 August 18 16:50 BST (UK)
Hugh Harbinson Boyd married Margaret Cowan, in Shankhill Antrim on 16 Dec 1868

Fathers Names - Samuel Boyd and William Cowan

(From Familysearch)

Children Include
Esther (7 Nov 1876) - b 3 Maxwell Place
Jane (17 ~Mar 1873)
Robert John (19 Jun 1878)
Male child (b 14 Apr 1870)
Female child ( b 9 Aug 1875)

Also seems to be a Hugh Harbinson Boyd, died ages 16 in Q1 1897

and another death of Hugh Harbinson Boyd (aged 41) - Q4 1890 - (This could be the HH Boyd above - husband of Margaret?)


Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Wednesday 08 August 18 17:14 BST (UK)
It sounds right and the children’s names are familiar to the names running through the family  :)

Thank you so much
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Wednesday 08 August 18 17:17 BST (UK)
Other Children of Hugh Harbinson Boyd and Margaret Cowan

Elizabeth (22 Dec 1879)
William Hugh (Feb 1881) - https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02844/2042328.pdf

Father Hugh is a blacksmith from 4 Brown street
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Wednesday 08 August 18 17:19 BST (UK)
The dad I thought may match Hugh was a John Boyd
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Wednesday 08 August 18 17:22 BST (UK)
Other Children of Hugh Harbinson Boyd and Margaret Cowan

Elizabeth (22 Dec 1879)
William Hugh (Feb 1881) - https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02844/2042328.pdf

Father Hugh is a blacksmith from 4 Brown street

This is Hugh Harbinson Boyd deaths
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1890/06091/4738155.pdf

(A Blacksmith - wife is Margaret - 7 Donegal Lane

As per the 1890 street Directory
Donegal Lane
7, 9. Boyd, Hugh H., jobbing smith, manufacturing ironmonger
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Wednesday 08 August 18 17:51 BST (UK)
This is the details of Hugh's burial

 Margaret  Boyd  75 Years 24 February  1933  27 February  1933  City Cemetery   
 Sarah  Boyd  73 Years 27 January   1947  29 January   1947  City Cemetery 
 Hugh Harbinson  Boyd  17 Years 31 December  1896  3 January   1897  City Cemetery   
 Hugh Harbison  Boyd  43 Years 15 October   1890  16 October   1890  City Cemetery 

Margaret should therefore be on the census in both 1901 and 1911, but I can't find her

Margaret moves to 215 Tenent Street sometine between 1912 and 1918 (Based on the street Directory)
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Wednesday 08 August 18 17:54 BST (UK)
That’s fantastic, thank you
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Wednesday 08 August 18 20:59 BST (UK)
Thank you so much for your help I have submitted an enquiry about those living at that address
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cwellan CoDown on Thursday 09 August 18 14:36 BST (UK)
Another source that is very helpful for Belfast

http://www.belfastforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,21263.45.html
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Thursday 09 August 18 14:44 BST (UK)
Thank you 😊
Title: Re: Boyd,Robert Shankill
Post by: Cboyd13 on Friday 10 August 18 10:17 BST (UK)
heard back from the record office may take a couple of weeks to get the info

Hugh Harbison must be a cousin. Still trying to find out more on my Hugh Boyds dad Robert who I got from his marriage cert