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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: lawless48 on Saturday 10 October 15 22:36 BST (UK)

Title: LAWLESS
Post by: lawless48 on Saturday 10 October 15 22:36 BST (UK)
Hi everyone

John Lawless PANCRAS 1861/ 1866

I am trying to locate a census / record for the following:

1) John Lawless 3 Rectory ? Marylebone St Thomas 1861 aged 52 Born Ireland
Whether there is a child Rose in residence?

2) Possible death John D Lawless: 1866 PANCRAS aged 58 cause ? Any names reporting death / address

Reason: My decades long search  - trying again and keeping fingers crossed to locate my ancestor Rose Lawless, born 1852 approx. Cork but married a John Street 1867 while living in Leather Lane Verulm Place Pancras, according to 1871 Census. Marriage certificate listed John Lawless as father but I have never been able to locate him:

In the Household (1871) a sister possibly Ellen 1857  - please note that 1871 Census rather jumbled but conforms Rose as born in Cork - it could, if this is John, explain why Ellen is living with the family - father had died.

Sometime between birth and marriage the family moved to London - but I have had no luck tracing any passage details

I am hoping that the Rectory Road/ Street? not sure if this still exists? or Death will indicate Rose's name somewhere and any other names?

Please can I thank you for looking and offering any help inn advance

Best Wishes

Steve
Title: Re: LAWLESS
Post by: groom on Saturday 10 October 15 23:07 BST (UK)
Is this the one you mean in 1861, it's the only one I can see?

RG 9; Piece: 75; Folio: 15; Page: 25
15, Adam Street East, Marylebone   (not the same as you give)

Richard S Morgan   22 
Elizabeth Morgan   23
John Lawless           52  married    Coach Maker    Gowsom, Ireland

There is no relationship give to the Morgans, so I think it could be that he was a separate household. No one else there.
Title: Re: LAWLESS
Post by: groom on Saturday 10 October 15 23:09 BST (UK)
Quote
Possible death John D Lawless: 1866 PANCRAS aged 58 cause ? Any names reporting death / address

I'm afraid the only way to see that is to buy the death certificate.

Quote
Sometime between birth and marriage the family moved to London - but I have had no luck tracing any passage details

Again I'm afraid you are unlucky, as there were, as far as I know, no passenger lists of people travelling to and from Ireland.
Title: Re: LAWLESS
Post by: lawless48 on Sunday 11 October 15 15:11 BST (UK)
Hi Groom

Many thanks for checking and for your help

Oh well, I thought this could be the one

Best Wishes

STEVE
Title: Re: LAWLESS
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 11 October 15 15:35 BST (UK)
In the Household (1871) a sister possibly Ellen 1857  - please note that 1871 Census rather jumbled but conforms Rose as born in Cork - it could, if this is John, explain why Ellen is living with the family - father had died.

I can see a Rose Street in Holborn in 1871 with husband John.  The census does not give a place of birth for John but I suspect the pobs are all on the wrong line as it gives Rose (20) as bn Middlesex, her 2 yr old daughter Mary Ann as bn Ireland - her 2mth son John bn London and her sister Ellen age 13 also listed as Street as bn London.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBDK-XDL
Title: Re: LAWLESS
Post by: dawnsh on Sunday 11 October 15 15:58 BST (UK)
Quote
John Lawless PANCRAS 1861/ 1866

I am trying to locate a census / record for the following:

1) John Lawless 3 Rectory ? Marylebone St Thomas 1861 aged 52 Born Ireland
Whether there is a child Rose in residence?


Where does the reference 3 Rectory? come from?
Title: Re: LAWLESS
Post by: lawless48 on Sunday 11 October 15 18:27 BST (UK)
Thanks Rosie

Yes it is Cork  - Rose is my Mum's Great Grand Mother and her mother said that 'Granny Street' had been born in Cork - the Census is a bit jumbled but subsequent ones bear it out  - Cork about 1852  - also Ellen 1857 Cork listed as sister  - seems to fit in with father having died?

Groom has checked the Rectory address which I found on ancestry website but its not the correct one for John

Looks impossible but I have come across several Johns living in Pancras and St Lukes

Thanks for your help

Steve
Title: Re: LAWLESS
Post by: ..claire.. on Sunday 11 October 15 21:44 BST (UK)
Hi

I suspect the reference to '3 rectory ? Marylebone' refers to the sub-district 'Rectory', this covers the 1861 census " Class: RG 9; Piece: 75; Folio: 15; Page: 25" that Groom found

http://www.stcaths.com/downloads/london_registrations.pdf

claire
Title: Re: LAWLESS
Post by: dawnsh on Monday 12 October 15 09:55 BST (UK)
Hi Claire

I was hoping that Steve would come back and might say that he had found another entry, not the one Groom mentioned.

John D Lawless 'could' be Domnic J Lawless in the 1861,  RG 9; Piece: 114; Folio: 47; Page: 27;

Title: Re: LAWLESS
Post by: lawless48 on Monday 12 October 15 13:50 BST (UK)
Hi Everyone

Still trying to trace the following:

1) John Lawless 3 Rectory ? Marylebone St Thomas 1861 aged 52 Born Ireland
Whether there is a child Rose in residence?

Sorry Groom: I thought this was the entry you checked?

Best Wishes

Steve
Title: Re: LAWLESS
Post by: groom on Monday 12 October 15 17:50 BST (UK)
I checked the only one I could see, and as I said it wasn't the address you gave. Where did the 3 Rectory come from? Is it as Claire said, where did you get the information from?
Title: Re: LAWLESS
Post by: dawnsh on Monday 12 October 15 17:59 BST (UK)
I think the 'Rectory' ref depends on which site you use to find the census information

Ancestry

Civil Parish:    St Marylebone
Ecclesiastical parish:    St Thomas
County/Island:    Middlesex
Country:    England
Registration district:    Marylebone
Sub-registration district:    Rectory
ED, institution, or vessel:    7
Household schedule number:    155
Piece:    75
Folio:    15
Page Number:    25

FindMyPast

Parish    Marylebone
City or borough    Marylebone
Municipal ward    Portman
Parliamentary borough    Marylebone
Ecclesiastical district    St Thomas
Registration district    Marylebone
Enumeration district    -
Archive reference    RG09
Piece number    75
Folio number    15
Page number    25

family search

Sub-District    3 Rectory
Parish    Marylebone
Ecclesiastical Parish    St Thomas
Registration District    Marylebone
Title: Re: LAWLESS
Post by: groom on Monday 12 October 15 18:02 BST (UK)
So, to be clear - the entry I gave is the one Steve asked for and 3 Rectory is a sub registration district and not an address?
Title: Re: LAWLESS
Post by: lawless48 on Monday 12 October 15 18:27 BST (UK)
Name     John Lawless     

 Date     1861     
 Sub-District     3 Rectory     
 Parish     Marylebone     
 Ecclesiastical Parish     St Thomas     
 Registration District     Marylebone     
 Age     52     
 Gender     Male     
 Birthplace     Ireland... 
Title: Re: LAWLESS
Post by: dawnsh on Monday 12 October 15 18:28 BST (UK)
Ancestry gives a breakdown and street desciption of the enumeration districts

Title: Re: LAWLESS
Post by: lawless48 on Monday 12 October 15 18:29 BST (UK)
Hi Everyone

Many thanks for your help in trying to locate this Census and see if a Rose Lawless was living with this John

Hope this is helpful

Best Wishes

Steve
Title: Re: LAWLESS
Post by: dawnsh on Monday 12 October 15 18:32 BST (UK)
Marylebone Part of
The Rectory Ecclesiastical District of Portman Ward
Bounded on the west by Baker Street
Bounded on the south by Blandford Street
Bounded on the east by East Street and Manchester Street
Bounded on the north by Paddington Street

etc
Title: Re: LAWLESS
Post by: groom on Monday 12 October 15 18:58 BST (UK)
Name     John Lawless     

 Date     1861     
 Sub-District     3 Rectory     
 Parish     Marylebone     
 Ecclesiastical Parish     St Thomas     
 Registration District     Marylebone     
 Age     52     
 Gender     Male     
 Birthplace     Ireland...

Just to confirm this is the census I gave you and John is on his own.
Title: Re: LAWLESS
Post by: lawless48 on Monday 12 October 15 21:03 BST (UK)
Hi Groom and many thanks for checking and your help

Oh Well, still no luck

Best Wishes

Steve