RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: catherine k on Wednesday 07 October 15 20:09 BST (UK)
-
Hi
I've been looking for information about James Patton born in Scotland 1837
Came to live in Blyth Northumberland and married Isabella they had 4 children Sarah Isabella Alexander .Sarah was my husband great Grandmother and married John Brown However I know a lot about James as he came to live in Newcastle upon Tyne and died here I think 1888 .but I would love to know more about which part of Scotland he came from and his parents also I know the name Patton also comes from a place called Achill Co mayo as a lot of Irish left Ireland to work in Scotland
I would be very gratefull of any Information
Catherine K
-
they had 4 children Sarah Isabella Alexander
Who was the fourth child and when were they all born
Do you have a copy of their marriage cert showing James' fathers name and occupation?
Marriages June qtr 1857
James Patton Alnwick 10b 384
Isabella Rogerson
EDIT
Not sure that is the correct marriage as 1861/1871 for Alnwick does not show children mentioned in post and shows James as b Northumberland
-
Hi Carol W
Thank you for your reply .
I'm afraid I haven't got James and Isabella marriage cert I'm sure they got married in Blyth Northumberland as all there children were born there Sarah was there first Child born 1864 then they moved to Newcastle upon Tyne and lived in 6 Liverpool Street .I know all there Children were married in ST Marys Cathedral Clayton street .I know its not much info about James Patton past .
Kind Regards
Catherine K
-
Have you found the family on any census?
There is an Alexander Patton birth in Tynemouth 1864 and he died 1953 - but 1871 shows his parents as John & Ann
-
Just found them on the 1881 - all b Blyth except James
James 44 shoemaker b Scotland
Isabella 36 b Blyth
Isabella 13
Alexander 15
RG11 Piece 5058 Folio 9 Page 11
-
Shown as James Pottorn aged 55 and Alexander Potton aged 6 in 1871 but no Isabella or other children
James is a widower - occ shoemaker b Scotland and he has 3 male lodgers
RG10 Piece 5132 Folio 77 Page 8
-
Hi
Yes they were all born in Blyth except James he was born in Scotland .
James died not long after that 1888.
I think I'm going to have to find there Marriage cert to find out James Father
Kind Regards
Catherine K
-
Before you send for the cert I gave details of above - was Isabella's maiden name definitely Rogerson?
-
Hi
Carol I've been checking there children and it dosent give mothers maiden name before 1911 .I do know Isabella had a sister called Alice and she was living with her and her husband and children in Newcastle in 1911 and said she was a widower if I could find there marriage cert online I should find maiden name
-
Hi
I made a mistake it was the 1901 census and Isabella died not long after that
-
Are you getting confused with mother Isabella and daughter Isabella? James was a widower in 1881
There is an Isabella Patton death June qtr 1865 Tynemouth as per freebmd. There is an Alexander Paton (one T) birth registered December qtr 1865 Tynemouth which does not link date wise to the death
The 1857 marriage is the only one in Northumberland for a James Patton with an Isabella on the same page.
I have also searched using Patten and Paton just in case but nothing matches to an Isabella
IGNORE the above.
-
Hi Neil
Isabella was born 1845 .I think you may have found the marriage in 1857 if that was the only 1 marriage
There daughter was Isabella was 13 ys on 1881 census I don't know what happened to her Sarah there oldest daughter was born in Blyth 1864 and married in 1883 Newcastle to John Brown .
If I check James and Isabella marraige I might be able to find both there fathers names
Kind Regards
Catherine K
-
Sorry - who is Neil?
Hi Neil
Please ignore my previous reply. Possibly another James Patton
As Isabella was only born 1845 - the 1857 marriage cannot be correct
-
James is a widower in 1871 so I think Isabella was a second wife and may be this marriage
Marriages March qtr 1875
Isabella Codling Tynemouth 10b 342
James Paton
-
There is an 1861 entry in Northumberland as follows:
James Patton 24 b Scotland - shoemaker
Maria 23 b Exeter Devon
Catherine 11 (suspect this should be 11mths) b Blyth
RG9 Piece 3849 Folio 109 Page 9
Births September qtr 1860
Catherine Elizabeth Patton Tynemouth 10b 175
And this death
Deaths June qtr 1870
Maria Patton aged 30 Tynemouth 10b 137
-
I don't know whether this is daughter Catherine's death as no ages were shown against death entries until the late 1860's
Deaths March qtr 1862
Catherine Paton Tynemouth 10b 134
-
Hi carol
Thanks for this info I'm wondering if Catherine was the oldest daughter before Sarah was born ile check it out
Kind regards
Catherine K
-
Is this Sarah's birth reg?
Births December qtr 1864
Sarah Patton Tynemouth 10b 163
-
Hi yes
This is Sarah Patton 1864 born in Blyth
She's not on the 1881 census as she was living in Nixon street as a domestic servent
Then married John Brown 1883 they are my husbands great grandparents
Thanks Carol
-
I can't find her in 1871 either nor can I find a marriage between James and Maria.
Might be a better bet buying a copy of the 1864 birth cert first to get Maria's maiden name
Can you confirm that the 1883 marriage cert shows James Patton's occupation as shoemaker?
-
Hi carol
James wife was Isabella I've seen then on the 1881 census but when they got married or where I don't know also I've got Sarah and John marriage cert and James was a shoemaker and signed his name father James Patton .Sarah's address was Liverpool street Newcastle upon Tyne the same as James Patton.
-
Yes- James is shown with a wife Isabella in 1881 - but in 1871 he is a widower and in 1861 he is married to Maria
As Isabella was only born in 1845 it rules out the earlier marriage I found in 1857 making the 1875 marriage the likeliest
Only James and son Alexander are found in 1871 so where are Sarah and Isabella jnr?
Maria died in 1870 so Isabella snr cannot be the mother of any Patton children born before that date.
-
Hi Carol
Thank you I see what mean so Sarah and siblings mother was Maria and she had died .
I also thought it strange why Sarah's wasent on the 1881 census or the 1871 census very strange .ile just have to find maria maiden name or marriage cert
Kind Regards
Catherine K
-
1891 - Sarah Brown aged 26 b Newcastle on Tyne - this birthplace does not tie in with the registration district on the 1864 birth
1901 - husband John is shown as married and with children but no Sarah. There is a 35yr old Sarah Brown shown as married who is a patient in a hospital in Durham - birthplace Wingates Northumberland.
You say that Isabella Patton is on the 1901 census. Is she the one shown as the sister of George Burgess?
If so - she is not your Isabella. Isabella Burgess married Thomas Paxton in 1865
-
I know your main purpose is to find James Patton's ancestry and all of the above may seem irrelevant.
However - we need to establish exactly who, when and where he married to enable you to buy a copy cert to get his fathers name/occupation
None of the available census info gives his exact birthplace within Scotland and the 1841 has quite a number of possibilities
-
Hi Carol
I am to wondering about Sarah Patton I know her father was James Patton he lived in Liverpool street Newcastle and on her marriage was 1883 age 19yrs.
The census in 1891 said she was born in Blyth .
I have always wondered why Sarah disappeared in 1901 on the census and just john and the children were there I've been trying to find out what happened to her its been a big mystery as I carnt find her death cert or where she is burried .also her youngest child Mary Ann Brown my husband grandmother went to live with relatives the Mullens they were Irish and all lived down the queside .Mary Ann is on the 1911 census living at side with Annie Mullen and family .we've always wondered did Sarah go into a asylum .
As Sarah's siblings were also living with the Mullen family .
-
I'm wondering have I got the right James Patton as I've never seen Sarah on any of the census the only thing I've got is her marriage cert saying she lived in Liverpool street .about Isabella it just said on census she was sister in law I thought maybe Alice sister but still do sent add up .
-
For info the achill records mainly start from civil registration in 1864. The Catholic birth records there were all colllated by William Masterson who organised them by family.
There are still pattons on Achill today but unless you can trace this guys parents or have info that takes you back there I suspect this will not be a worthwhile search. Worse than a needle in a haystack I'm afraid!'
-
Hi Rob Stewart
Thank you for your reply about James Patton
He was my husbands great grandfather .
I know what you mean about a needle in a haystack
As my family all live in Achill . My Father was Brian Kilbane and his parents Bridget and Edward Kilbane .also I'm interested in William Masterson who has a lot of information .
As my Aunt Maggie married a Masterson from Achill so we could be related .I know there are Patton's living next to my fathers house he lived in the glen Saula Achill but don't know if they are related to my husband also a lot of families went to Scotland tattie picking .
How will I get in touch will William Masterson
If you could let me know I would be very gratefully
Thanks Catherine K
-
Happy to help Katherine. The Masterson book is now sold at Berniesworld. Its really cds. The records are colllated by father/mother and show all children born to them by birth registration and baptism (sometimes with the godparents noted). Really good and helped me a lot to look at them as families. It also allows you to rule out namesakes (kids who died early and then their name was given to another child born later). You have to slightly ignore the birth date - its really when the birth was registered. Baptism was the important one otherwise as you know they weren't put in the church if they died but down the shore in the 'killini'.
You could of course do this all yourself for nothing on family search or pay as you go on rootsireland. The 1901/1911 census returns also sometime indicate who the next generation back were. For example, next to my great grandfather's name is his own father's name put in brackets. The census collectors sometimes respected the older Gealic oral tradition!!
The Masterson book will only take you back to 1864.
A free source is also the military pension records published online 2 years ago by the Irish government: lists the claimants by their local brigade and rank for a military pension from the War of Independence. All the Achill companies are listed.
My mum is from Achill but brought up in Scotland: only saw her brothers when they came to Scotland for the 'tattie howkin!! They were a mix of Gallaghers from the Valley and my Grandfather was Johnny Masterson from Sraheens - known as Johnny 'Owen'. There were Kilbanes on his side through one of his uncles: she was another Katherine Kilbane! They all worked in Scotland or went to Cleveland.
There are some boards on Ancestry that discuss the Achill Kilbanes. You'd find it easy if you did a Google on the 'achill Kilbanes'. There are a couple of people on there who might scan you a copy of the records for the people of interest to you if you enquire nicely.
#Love Achill :)
-
Hi Rob Stewart
Thank you for all your information .
I'm thinking we could be related my Grandmother Bridget was from Saula and also had relations called Gallagher her maiden name was also kilbane .my grandfather Edward was from Dooniver .I have so many relatives on the island my Brother also lives there on the Shore Road and there's the Mac nultys and Mac gintys also my cousin marg Lavelle has the pub Teds in the sound and the boxer Johnny Kilbane from Achill who went the Cleveland Ohio was my Granny's First Cousin . and Kevin Kilbane the footballer is my Second cousin . the Masterson's who are my relatives came from tunergee .but I'm sure we have relatives living in sraheens.also I'm sure my fathers broth in law was Hughie Masterson I know he had Bothers one of them lived in the sound his nick name was the Bullet my father got on great with him .I will look up the information on the census and also William Masterson .I think its great to share our stories look forward to hearing from you
Catherine
-
Hi Catherine,
I have only just joined this sight but I am also searching for information on James Patton and his daughter Sarah born 1864 Blyth. Sarah married John Brown in 1883 and had a daughter called Mary Anne Brown. Mary then married a William S Richardson and they then had a daughter called Mary Jane Richardson. Mary Jane Richardson was my grandmother, Mary Anne was my great grandmother, Sarah Patton is my great, great grandmother, so that makes James Patton my great, great, great grandfather. Any information you have I would be extremely grateful for.
Kind Regards
Carmen
-
Hi Carmen
Its so lovely to hear from you .I've seen your name so many times and I've wondered
Who you were .I've met your grandmother Mary she was my husband Harry auntie
His mam was her her sister Alice Richardson .there's only one auntie left now called
lena .I seen your name on Genes Reunited a long time ago as I've been searching for
Sarah Brown New Patton for a long time .I have a lot of information so pleased.
Look forward to hearing
Catherine xx
-
Hi Carmen
Hoping you can reply soon
Regarding James Patton also you are related to my husband
Kind Regards
Catherine K
-
Hi Carmen
I don't know if you have read my reply about James Patton .
His Daughter Sarah Patton married John Brown and were Mary ann parents your
Great grandparents .they lived at ramshaw street elswick but Sarah disappeared
In 1901 and I've searched the hospitals as I think Sarah went into a asylum as Your
Great grandmother Mary Ann went to live with her relatives the Mullens down the Side
In 1911 with her other Siblings the Mullens were off her fathers side as John Browns
Mother was called Alice Mullen she married Thomas brown they were all Irish I
Have more information as I also have a Irish background and live in Newcastle upon Tyne also you all related to my husband and our children I met your grandmother a few times she told me she only had one child and 7 grandchildren I would love to get in touch with you.
Kind Regards
Catherine K
-
Hi Carmen,
Welcome to RootsChat :) If you wish to reply to this topic please look for the blue "reply" button that appears just below this message.
Regards
Sarah
-
Hi Catherine
Lovely to hear from you. I have my tree on Genes Reunited and also I am doing my tree on the family search site as well. It would be lovely to keep in touch by email. You can find me on facebook as well. I don't know much about the Pattons so maybe we would be able to work together to figure this out.
Kind regards Carmen Brown
-
Hi Carmen
Lovely to hear from you .I was so excited when I got you message
I knew your surname was Brown .I'm sure we can share our information esp
Now we know we.are related I'm not on Facebook I need to send you a private
Message with my email address as you carnt post it I'm not sure how to send
It as I can send you a lot of census records and.share our stories
I will try to send a private message
Kind Regards
Catherine Wall
-
Hi Catherine
Thanks for your message. Look forward to hearing from you.
-
I need to send you a private Message with my email address as you carnt post it I'm not sure how to send It
Click on the icon under Carmen's name - the one that looks like a piece of paper with the corner folde up.
-
Hi Carmen
Its so lovely to hear from you .I've seen your name so many times and I've wondered
Who you were .I've met your grandmother Mary she was my husband Harry auntie
His mam was her her sister Alice Richardson .there's only one auntie left now called
lena .I seen your name on Genes Reunited a long time ago as I've been searching for
Sarah Brown New Patton for a long time .I have a lot of information so pleased.
Look forward to hearing
Catherine xx
Hi,
Excuse me, I hope you don't mind me poaching in on this topic? Only I have a gt gt Grandfather, I believe was called John Brown who lived one time at 12 Spring? Street Elswick? I think He had a son Alfred 1896, who was a soldier. Does any of this ring any bells with your records please? Or maybe there are lots of Browns in Elswick..I really don't know. But worth asking I feel. Many thanks 8)
-
Hi Rosie
I'm replying as you are looking for information on John Brown my husband great grandfather was John brown 1863 lived in Ramshaw Street Elswick 1901 but he didn't have a son called Alfred his youngest child was born in 1896 was Mary Ann hope you find some information about your family
Kind regards
-
Hi Rosie
I'm replying as you are looking for information on John Brown my husband great grandfather was John brown 1863 lived in Ramshaw Street Elswick 1901 but he didn't have a son called Alfred his youngest child was born in 1896 was Mary Ann hope you find some information about your family
Kind regards
Oh thank you for taking time to reply. That was kind. Worth a try.. But will keep hunting.. Stay safe
Kind regards Rosie🌹
-
Hi Rosie
From what you mention, this must be Alfred with his family in the later censuses:
1901 - www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XS96-X5G
1911 - www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWMC-WT4
I think this is Alfred's birth entry:
BROWN, ALFRED
BLENKHORN - Mother's maiden name
GRO Reference: 1896 M Quarter in EASINGTON Volume 10A Page 428
Parents' marriage showing in 4th Qrt 1874 in Stokesley (North Riding of Yorkshire).
He gave his father, John Brown at 12 Spring Street, as contact when he re enlisted in the army in 1919.
Monica
-
Hi Rosie
From what you mention, this must be Alfred with his family in the later censuses:
1901 - www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XS96-X5G
1911 - www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWMC-WT4
I think this is Alfred's birth entry:
BROWN, ALFRED
BLENKHORN - Mother's maiden name
GRO Reference: 1896 M Quarter in EASINGTON Volume 10A Page 428
Parents' marriage showing in 4th Qrt 1874 in Stokesley (North Riding of Yorkshire).
He gave his father, John Brown at 12 Spring Street, as contact when he re enlisted in the army in 1919.
Monica
Oh Monica 😍 brilliant. Thank you so very much. This is a strange journey.. I just recently found I had a bio father along side my darling dad.. Both passed. But through dna I found Alfred.. And thought might try and find a bit about his family and what made me who I am 😊 brilliant stuff. Thanks so much.. Stay safe 🌹
-
Good luck with it all, Rosie :)
Monica