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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: iolaus on Monday 05 October 15 14:34 BST (UK)
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This is going to sound odd but I seem to be coming to the conclusion that my three times great grandmother was registered as a boy and I was wondering if anyone has any ideas of how I could prove (or disprove this)
Emily Fido (she marries as Emma but is baptised Emily) was born around 1852 in Woolley, Somerset according to the census, however shortly after her birth the family move to Bristol
I can't find a birth record for an Emma or Emily (or even any females) in the right area at the right time. Emily is her parents 7th child so I can't see her being registered under her mothers maiden name of Fry.
She was baptised at All Saints in Woolley on 6th June 1852 - daughter of George Fido and (H)Anna Pinker (Fry)
She married in Bristol registry office on 5th October 1869 - daughter of George
The only 'potential' birth in the right area I can see is in the June quarter of 1852 a little boy Henry Fido (according to Bath BMD his mother's maiden name is Fry)
I can't see this Henry in the baptism records for that area, he is not on a census etc, I can't see a matching death record for him
Could it be possible that Henry is actually Emily?
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Was it actually compulsory to register all births by that date? (I know that came in in 1837, but how soon did it really "catch on"? Or it might be a simple error in transcription, and the entries before and after may show it up?
Have you any idea who the Henry may be - does the name occur elsewhere in the family?
Noty every child was born where the parents lived - in at least three cases in my family I've found "missing" children, especially firstborn ones, when I've looked where Mum's parents were living. I'm sure it's not just my lot that went home to Mum to have their children! Worth a look?
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I haven't come across this in British registers, but have found it several times in French Records. In France, when the child came to marry, they had to 'prove' they were a different sex by getting friends and relatives to swear before the local Mayor.
Some children's sex isn't always clear at birth - so it is possible.
First I would check other areas, just incase the mother was staying with relatives or friends for the birth.
Mark V
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I did a UK wide search there is a Emily Fido born in St Pancreas - but thats the Dec quarter - so would have been well after her baptism
In the year before her baptism there are 7 Fido babies born in the UK
Alfred (born Langford), Thomas (born Ross), Eliza (born St George Southwark), Thomas (Chippenham), Charlotte (Chippenham), Mary Ann (Chippenham), and Henry (Bath)
If I disregard the other boys, Emily has sisters called Eliza and Mary Ann - both of whom were living in 1852 so I can't see it being either of them
Charlotte is the daughter of Henry and Alice
As far as I can see there are no Henrys in the family at all - but the more I'm saying Henry and Emily in my head the names keep starting to rhyme
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Hi iolaus,
I was going to suggest just ordering the certificate to check the details.
However, as it is a bit of an oddity, perhaps you may get a response if you contact the local register office and ask.
Heywood
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Could be a mistake in the quarterly returns sent to the GRO
Stan
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Check the entries above and below "Henry" - it may be an error of some sort on the register. I had a recent example of incorrect place of birth and upon having the original entry checked discovered that the place of birth had mistakenly been transcribed from the line above.
Does Emily appear on the 1861 census as Emily?
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It may simply be an indexing error as to the name - so that "Emily" has been misread, and therefore wrongly entered in relevant indexes, as "Henry". Without the certificate you won't be able to find out whether the entry for the child's sex in column 3 says "Boy" or "Girl".
Since there is a baptism for "Emily" at around the time of the birth it seems unlikely to be a case of genuine ambiguity as to whether the child was male or female.
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Does Emily appear on the 1861 census as Emily?
Yes, although the surname has been mistranscribed as Fide
Just found this on find my past In the early days of registration some birth certificates actually got the gender of the child wrong, largely due to the fact that the parents may have been illiterate and couldn't check the details were correct.
I suppose if the person registering the birth misheard 'Em'ly' as 'Enry' there could have been the assumption she was a he - and if George and Hannah couldn't read they wouldn't correct it.
I will get the certificate but if it comes back as Henry, son of George and Hannah on a date shortly before Emily's baptism (their other children are 2-3 weeks old at baptism) where do I go with proving this is actually Emily's and not a brother who is 'missing'
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"I did a UK wide search there is a Emily Fido born in St Pancreas - but thats the Dec quarter - so would have been well after her baptism"
Emily Mary Ann Jane Fido died Jun 1853.
I would order the Henry Fido certificate, one way or tother you will find out. As you say no sign of a death for a Henry Fido- or anything else.
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It would be best to get the certificate from the local register office so that (if they make the certificate up from an image of the original entry rather than a handwritten transcription) you can see the original handwriting which may be a clue to the reasons for any mistranscriptions later on.
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It would be best to get the certificate from the local register office
How do I do that?
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It would be best to get the certificate from the local register office
How do I do that?
Follow the instructions on BathBMD:
http://tinyurl.com/puqxwea
You will see that it provides a clickable reference number which takes you straight through to an application form naming the applicable local office. It may be worth your while telephoning the office in advance with your query, as Heywood suggested earlier in the thread (always worth a try!).
NB I see that they charge £12 whereas the GRO charge is £9.25, so if Bath are not going to provide you with a certificate showing the original handwriting you would be (financially) better off ordering from the GRO. So it is definitely worth asking them whether it will be a photocopy of the original or a transcribed copy.
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Hi iolaus,
I was going to suggest just ordering the certificate to check the details.
However, as it is a bit of an oddity, perhaps you may get a response if you contact the local register office and ask.
Heywood
As avm228 suggests and as I do above, the local registry office may help.
bathnes.com (http://www.bathnes.gov.uk/services/births-marriages-and-deaths/copies-certificates)
Here is some more information re corrections (http://www.bathnes.gov.uk/services/births-marriages-and-deaths/copies-certificates/correcting-record)
There is an email contact. You may be required to purchase the record to clarify the name but perhaps not as it is more than likely an error.
I notice that avm228 has added a bit more now so I agree above ;)
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My gt-gt-grandmother was registered at birth as a boy and the certificate wasn't corrected until she died 59 years and 16 children later ::)
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sorry to reserrect an old thread but just looked on the adjacent entries - the baby above 'Henry/Emily Fido' is an Emily Hook, the baby after is Henry Bolwell.
Just waiting to hear back from Bath registry as to if you get a photocopy before ordering (as if you don't I may as well order the cheaper version from GRO
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The entry is listed on Bath BMD as Henry Fido MMN Fry.
http://www.bathbmd.org.uk/index.php
Jay
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My uncle Aubrey was down as audrey.
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Author Emlyn Williams had a cousin known as Ioan Emlyn (perfectly normal Welsh male forenames) who was born in Liverpool. When he needed a birth cert he was mortified to find he was registered as a girl called Joan Emlyn! See West Derby births, 1902, FreeBMD
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Just got this email back off of Bath registry office
Having pulled and checked the physical Register unfortunately, in this case, BMD is correct stating entry BEA/6/283 is a ‘Henry FIDO,’ Male. I conducted a search under the surname ‘FIDO’ from 1845-1855 there was no Emily in our records.
Argh
This family are driving me nuts, another son they have registered as George then a few weeks later changed their minds and baptised him as another name (his elder brother who died)
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I will get the certificate but if it comes back as Henry, son of George and Hannah on a date shortly before Emily's baptism (their other children are 2-3 weeks old at baptism) where do I go with proving this is actually Emily's and not a brother who is 'missing'
In the early 1990's I used to get information direct from the local registrar's office, and was permitted to look at the exercise books in which the births had been listed.
I noticed a tiny little "p" by two names and enquired what that meant...... it signified TWINS.
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If Bath haven't done so, you could order from the GRO by using the 'reference not known, option to check what parents names have been given.
Once you enter the year, you then have the option to request a cert for Henry Fido (because that's what the name will be, but you can specify the parents names as George Fido, put the mother down as "Hannah or Anna", both names in the box and her maiden surname.
If there isn't a match, they'll send you a refund.
It's an interesting dilemma if this does turn out to be the child you are looking for.
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Follow up
I got Henry's certificate
HENRY Fido born 14th May 1852 in Woolley
son of George Fido, gardener, and Hannah Fido, formaly Fry
Hannah registered the birth (with her mark) on 15th June 1852
Emily was baptised on 6th June 1852 at All Saints in Woolley
Any ideas where to go from here? I'm assuming Emily and Henry are definately the same child
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So if Hannah "made her mark" rather than using her signature, perhaps she was illiterate, and unale to point out the registrar's error to him.
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I agree Annie, also if the Registrar was not a "local" the Somerset accent can be a little tricky- try saying Henry and Emily with one :P
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Hi team
Off track slightly, but was Hannah Fry of the Wells, Somerset Fry's?!
Regards
bitzar
Melbourne, Australia.
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This is going to sound odd but I seem to be coming to the conclusion that my three times great grandmother was registered as a boy and I was wondering if anyone has any ideas of how I could prove (or disprove this)
Emily Fido (she marries as Emma but is baptised Emily) was born around 1852 in Woolley, Somerset according to the census, however shortly after her birth the family move to Bristol
I can't find a birth record for an Emma or Emily (or even any females) in the right area at the right time. Emily is her parents 7th child so I can't see her being registered under her mothers maiden name of Fry.
She was baptised at All Saints in Woolley on 6th June 1852 - daughter of George Fido and (H)Anna Pinker (Fry)
She married in Bristol registry office on 5th October 1869 - daughter of George
The only 'potential' birth in the right area I can see is in the June quarter of 1852 a little boy Henry Fido (according to Bath BMD his mother's maiden name is Fry)
I can't see this Henry in the baptism records for that area, he is not on a census etc, I can't see a matching death record for him
Could it be possible that Henry is actually Emily?
Try and find todays registration district local register office for Woolly and contact that register office and ask them to check their records for Emily 1851/52
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see reply #19
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Anything is possible
Shirley Crabtree, Jr (14 November 1930 – 2 December 1997), better known as Big Daddy, was an English male professional wrestler
Short version of Henrietta - Henrie 'Enrie' (Emma or Emie [Emmie}) ? = 'Enrie') for short becomes 'Henry' and maybe baptism is wrong
Enrie sticks and changed to Emy or Amy (Emie-Emily or Emma) because of confusion with Henry
My Gt gran was Mary put down as Harry in 1851 census
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Hi team
Off track slightly, but was Hannah Fry of the Wells, Somerset Fry's?!
Regards
bitzar
Melbourne, Australia.
Not as far as I'm aware, I'm afraid, but haven't gone much further back on her line yet
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One of my relatives was baptised in 1792 and named Francis/Frances.
The handwriting on the OPR is indistinct and could read as either.
It simply states 6th child and no gender is given.
I know the child was male because I found his marriage and death.
Every other person researching the family has decided the child was female ( all copied from each other)
Francis's brother was my direct ancestor and as he did have a daughter named Frances, it seems to be the reasoning in assuming her "uncle" was female.
LOL