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Research in Other Countries => South Africa => Topic started by: ajkm on Wednesday 30 September 15 19:04 BST (UK)

Title: Alfred Thomas Charles Martin 1838-1874
Post by: ajkm on Wednesday 30 September 15 19:04 BST (UK)
Dear South Africa -

ATCM was my great grandfather b. Clerkenwell, London in 1838 and was a clock-maker.  He was the eldest of 12 children of Thomas Martin and Elizabeth (Fennell).  It is believe that 3 or 4 of his siblings emigrated to S Africa from about 1868/9.  Those who definitely emigrated were Edward Martin b. 1851 in Shoreditch, London and sister Agnes Martin b. 1854/5.   Other possibles were Henry b. 1842/3, Arthur 1846/7, Frederick 1849/50, Sarah b 1852/3, Florence 1858/9 and William 1861 all born in London.

Edward started a chain of stores in Johannesburg. I should be interested in whether any of the descendants of any of these are still extant.

AJKM
Title: Re: Alfred Thomas Charles Martin 1838-1874
Post by: 3sillydogs on Wednesday 30 September 15 20:31 BST (UK)


Do you have any idea when they may have gone to South Africa, it would help to narrow the search.
Title: Re: Alfred Thomas Charles Martin 1838-1874
Post by: ajkm on Wednesday 30 September 15 21:44 BST (UK)
Thanks for the reply.

As mentioned aro 1868/9 I am told

Regards
AJKM
Title: Re: Alfred Thomas Charles Martin 1838-1874
Post by: 3sillydogs on Thursday 01 October 15 12:14 BST (UK)


Sorry, seem to have missed that :-[
Title: Re: Alfred Thomas Charles Martin 1838-1874
Post by: Nookie on Saturday 19 December 15 10:59 GMT (UK)
Do you have the full names of any of his siblings?  There are many Martin's at the archives making it difficult to work out if they relate to you without a second name.
Title: Re: Alfred Thomas Charles Martin 1838-1874
Post by: ajkm on Saturday 13 February 16 07:26 GMT (UK)
Sorry not to have replied earlier.   Here is what I have.
The names of all the siblings are as follows:
Alfred Thomas Charles MARTIN  b2.6.1838
Selina MARTIN d inf 1840 ; Henry MARTIN  b 1842 or 3; Christina MARTIN b 1844/5;
Arthur MARTIN b 1846/7;Frederick MARTIN  b 1849/50; Edward MARTIN b Feb/Mar 1851;
Sarah MARTIN b 1852/3; Agnes MARTIN b 1854/5; Caroline MARTIN b 1856/7 m James Glaysher, bookseller, Greenwich, London;  Florence MARTIN b 1858/9 ; William MARTIN b 1861

3 or 4 of the siblings are believed to have emigrated to S Africa of which we are reasonably certain about Edward (Ted) and Agnes.    Edward went about 1868/9 aged 18.  Another was 'Aunty Minnie'
- uncertain how she was related to the others. Edward went on the off-chance of finding work and is believed to have started a chain of stores.

Any news on any descendants would be welcome

AJKM

Title: Re: Alfred Thomas Charles Martin 1838-1874
Post by: Gillian Mauchan on Sunday 14 February 16 04:14 GMT (UK)
Hmm Edward Martin is a little too common in the archives
Here are some possibilities for Agnes - though you would have to get copies to be sure - these can be ordered via eggsa.org if held outside of the Cape Archives or direct from the Cape Archives

One in the Transvaal Archive - though possibly not helpful unless you find a marriage record
DEPOT     TAB                                                                   
SOURCE    MHG                                                                   
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
VOLUME_NO 0                                                                     
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 15178                                                                 
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION          DAVIDSON, JAMES.                                                     
STARTING  19100000                                                             
ENDING    19100000                                                             
REMARKS   SURVIVING SPOUSE AGNES DAVIDSON (BORN MARTIN).   

and one in the Cape Archives
DEPOT     KAB                                                                   
SOURCE    MOOC                                                                 
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
VOLUME_NO 6/9/3047                                                             
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 12983                                                                 
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION          MARTIN, AGNES. ESTATE PAPERS.                                         
STARTING  19260000                                                             
ENDING    19260000     

The latter document should reference the parents of Agnes
Both of these would be a long shot
Regards
Gillian
Title: Re: Alfred Thomas Charles Martin 1838-1874
Post by: Gillian Mauchan on Sunday 14 February 16 04:30 GMT (UK)
If I limit a search to Transvaal only I come up with these possibilities for Edward
EPOT     TAB                                                                   
SOURCE    MHG                                                                   
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
VOLUME_NO 0                                                                     
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 66949                                                                 
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION          MARTIN, EDWARD.                                                       
STARTING  19270000                                                             
ENDING    19270000                                                             
REMARKS   SURVIVING SPOUSE HENRIETTA SARAH MARTIN.         

If he had a middle name

DEPOT     TAB                                                                   
SOURCE    MHG                                                                   
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
VOLUME_NO 0                                                                     
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 38568                                                                 
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION          MARTIN, EDWARD ALBERT.                                               
STARTING  19180000                                                             
ENDING    19180000                                           

DEPOT     TAB                                                                   
SOURCE    MHG                                                                   
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
VOLUME_NO 0                                                                     
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 58257                                                                 
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION          MARTIN, EDWARD ROPER.                                                 
STARTING  19250000                                                             
ENDING    19250000                                                             
REMARKS   PREDECEASED SPOUSE LEATHY MARTIN (BORN HUNT).         

Regards

Gillian
Title: Re: Alfred Thomas Charles Martin 1838-1874
Post by: Nookie on Sunday 14 February 16 08:06 GMT (UK)
I have checked out Edward 1927 and Edward Albert and neither of them are your Edward unfortunately.  The Edward born in 1927 was born in England in 1861 not 1851 and was a miner.  Edward Albert was born in Australia. 
Title: Re: Alfred Thomas Charles Martin 1838-1874
Post by: Nookie on Sunday 14 February 16 08:16 GMT (UK)
I have just checked the Agnes Martin/Davidson and it is not her :(
Title: Re: Alfred Thomas Charles Martin 1838-1874
Post by: 3sillydogs on Sunday 14 February 16 08:43 GMT (UK)
Checked the other Agnes who died 1926 was born around 1855 in Scotland and her parents were Robert and Agnes and she died unmarried, and the list of her siblings does not match yours. :-\
Title: Re: Alfred Thomas Charles Martin 1838-1874
Post by: Nookie on Monday 15 February 16 09:36 GMT (UK)
As you can see we are having no luck here at all :(

Just a thought:
I  noticed that none of the sons has any of the names of their father which was quite unusual for those days as so many parents followed the naming tradition.  Is it possible that you do not have their correct names i.e. Alfred Henry and not just Henry?  You did not give Alfred's wife's name - did the girls follow any form of naming tradition?