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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => Topic started by: mshergold on Saturday 26 September 15 23:47 BST (UK)
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Hello,
As reported by two articles from the Hampshire Chronicle for January of 1787, and February of 1788 it seems my family was in Winchester at this time. As much as the structure for Winchester seems to be in tact of the John and Ann marriage post 1800 continuing through to the current day, my interest here lies in establishing the lineage prior . The two newspaper articles report a] the drowning of Mary Shergold from being intoxicated in early January of 1787; and then her husband is reported b] Robert has an apoplectic fit in February 1788. We know from the articles that they were man and wife.
Firstly I would like to , if at all possible, find the burial for each person of this marriage. Secondly I would like to know about "St Johns House" which is mentioned in the article and if at possible a map that may show where this was.
From later records of a non conformist nature one Henry died post 1800 with a second person also of a non conformist record which suggests to me that Robert and Mary may have had children; one of which could have been Henry. So thirdly I would like to investigate any baptisms and marriages of Robert and Mary through to any children the couple may have had.
Because my genealogy tree starts with a chart of John and Ann, somewhere I would assume that Henry and his wife or wives had children which may include John. Of course I may be totally off base and Henry came from elsewhere as with John ; but; the census of John indicated that he was of Winchester.
Given that not all burials were microfilmed for Winchester this may be an uphill battle or brickwall to begin with,, however, I have confidence that somewhere there are transcripts done of at least the microfilms in the period 1780 to 1850 for one parish with some burials possibly available for the other microfilm of Winchester College spanning 1678 til 1903... but I dont know who has them or where they might be found but they certainly don't appear on the subscription sites we are accustomed to using. In fact very little appears even after 1800 for marriages and baptisms.
Maybe entries appear on disc that I am not aware of but either way I need assistance to find any entry prior to 1800 for the city of Winchester regardless of which of the ten churches the family may have used. I do know that St Maurice, and, St Thomas with St Clement were frequented post 1800 so maybe the entries appear there.......
Again, the spelling variation of the family name Shergold may be anything from Shergool, Shargold or some other form....
thank you
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Hi
If you zoom in on the map and look where it says Winchester in bold script, St Johns house is just south west of that point
http://maps.nls.uk/view/102343053
If you G**gle 'St Johns House Winchester' there is plenty of info, pictures and history of this building, for example
http://www.cityofwinchester.co.uk/history/html/st_johns.html
claire
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Hi
Have found a marriage licence record, maybe a child of theirs, not sure what dates I am looking for ?
James SHERGOLD of Winchester, St Thomas, 21 bachelor and labourer and Ann LEE of Easton, 21 spinster. Married at Easton: 7 December 1784
claire
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claire,
thank you for the map link.... it shows how close St Maurice and St James House are so thats a clue that these folk are somehow related...
the structure would possibly begin with the marriage which hasnt been found for Robert and Mary prior to their deaths as indicated.... so that would be prior to 1787/88. Given that James married in 1784 being 21, then the christening for him would be circa 1763...... and that puts the marriage of Robert and Mary now at prior to 1763.... which suggests to me that maybe the couple are in their late 40s or 50s at time of death...... and just as a wild guess Robert would be born circa 1730 odd
At this stage thats about as much as I know........
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Hi
Some other records found for possible family
MARRIAGES:
Winchester St Thomas with St Clement, 14 June 1718, Thomas Shergold of SARUM a wool-stapler and Jane OSGOOD of Romsey.
Winchester St Thomas with St Clement, 4 Dec 1720, John SHERGOLD and Mary FIELDER both off Otterbourne (abt. 6 miles from Winchester)
MARRIAGE Licence Record for 1820
George GALE of Alton aged 21 Gentleman Bach., and Martha-Matilda SHERGOLD aged 21 spins. of St Maurice Winchester, 25 Aug. 1820. A John Shergold was Bondsman
Have you considered the family may have originated from Wiltshire where there are a lot of Shergolds , there is a Robert/ Mary Shergold baptising children there in the 1750's in Great Wishford.
claire
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Hi
May I ask, the John and Ann Shergold ~ your family line, who were their children ?
I have found the baptisms of children in the Non Conformist records, 3 in Winchester ( Caroline, Maria and Fanny), and numerous others in Lyndhurst ( one being Martha Matilda~ her marriage in prior post).
What is interesting in the record is that their father JOHN SHERGOLD was baptised the same day as the three in Winchester and a note was left in the register
" John Shergold was baptised the same day as his three children after mentioning his father and mother being dead, but at the time of his birth given afterwards, belonged to the parish aforesaid."
Here his his baptism.
John Shergold son of HENRY SHERGOLD and his wife ELIZABETH of the parish of DOWNTON in the county of WILTSHIRE was born on the 25th July 1763 and baptised on 17 August 1804 ~ Winchester Independent.
Henry SHERGOLD married Betty BUTT on 17 October 1756, Downton, Wiltshire.
claire
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good on you claire.
i didnt have the Fielder marriage.....
but.... what makes a difference is the anno is the parish register stating Henry and Elizabeth of Downton........ which places the family in a different light..... i knew there had to be a simple solution to this branch and with the anno it explains a lot......
thanks for your work.....
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i have during the course of the day identified the marriage of Robert and Mary which seems to be one at Savernake Wiltshire ; Mary being Mary Knight....... however my transcription of that marriage gives me no clues other than date. [ there was a marriage in Bath Somerset (Mary Pyle)a year prior but that marriage belongs to wholly different family branch]
The Mary Knight marriage then raises the question.... where did they live from the time of their marriage until their deaths as reported in the newspaper..... and where the heck did they have children , if any........ maybe they even go into Berkshire since Savernake is on that side of the county of Wilts.
i did check all my databases for Robert and Mary children throughout Wiltshire and none seemed to have the right period [ ie St Giles, Wishford listings] and of all the potential offspring sets none mentioned a Henry as being born of the combination.....
as well i did a thorough read of the "Downton" baptisms supplied by WiltsOPC site and no other children seem to come of the Henry/ Elizabeth [ Betty Butt] marriage so if James is related to this Winchester tree then his christening and birth are elusive.
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Hi
You mention a Henry in your first post ( non conformist burial post 1800)
What about this scenario
Your line ~ John Shergold son of Henry and Elizabeth (Betty) . What if Henry was a widower when he married Betty Butt. From 1745 a Henry and Barbara Shergold baptized three children in Downton , I think they married Whiteparish 16 May 1735, her maiden name being BARBER.
Children Found in Downton
~ Barbara 25 Feb 1745,
~ John 7 Sept. 1748 ~ this could be the john in your first post who died of the apoplectic fit
~ HENRY 14 Jan 1752
It wasn't unusual to name two children with the same name, unless this John above (born 1748) died
Your John and Ann Shergold baptised some of their children in the Non Conformist Baptist Church in Lyndhurst, Hampshire (13 miles from Downton).
Wonder if John and his parents moved there sometime after his birth, as there is this baptism in the same church.
Henry SHURGOLD bapt. 26 September 1784 Lyndhurst Baptist. ( an adult ~ mentions his dead wife Mary)
And then they move to Winchester ;D
claire
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Hi.. again :)
Sometimes when I've seen marriage license records they have said '21 and upwards'. Before 1836 no marriage of a person under the age of 21 was valid without the consent of parents or guardians. Clergymen who disobeyed the law were liable for 14 years transportation.
With this in mind the marriage license of James Shergold could mean he may have been older.
claire
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i looked at the barbara one and thought there would have been a connection....
however.... Robert has an apoplectic fit in February 1788....
interesting though your comment about Henry Shurgold being a widower and adult....
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Hi
Back to your family line from John and Ann, this looks like the burial of Johns parents Elizabeth (nee BUTT) and Henry.
LYNDHURST Hampshire
Elizabeth SHERGOLD of the parish of Downton Wiltshire, widow, was buried in the Protestant Dissenters Burying Ground 31st December 1797 aged 65 years.
Henry SHERGOLD of the parish of Downton Wiltshire aged 52 years was buried in the Protestant Dissenters Burying Ground in Downton on ? April 1786,
The baptism of the adult Henry in Lyndhurst mentions his dead wife Mary, think this is their marriage
Henry SHERGOLD married Mary GOULDING 23 July 1783, Downton, Wiltshire.
claire
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claire,
thank you for your reply.... shall look at that today...... i have an adventure to perform tis morn..... i get final chitty chat re my new temporary work contract as an art gallery assistant in a government based organisation.... so the ol suit and tie has to be adourned.....
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Good luck :) :) :)
claire
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Hi my name is Dawn Shergold, I am a direct descendant from Henry Shergold 1720 from Downton. Henry was my 6x grt grandfather. His son John moved to portsea where my family are all from. I have the direct tree back from Henry to present day, wld love to hear from you