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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: MotoFreako64 on Thursday 24 September 15 13:40 BST (UK)
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My Grandfather had a younger brother, who is proving to be quite an elusive ancestor.
John William Taylor (usually known as Jack) was born in Netherton, near Dudley, Worcestershire, England in 1896. Both my Grandfather and Jack were orphaned in 1901. I know that my Grandfather spent the next few years at the Royal Orphanage in Wolverhampton, but there are no records of Jack being there with him.
I have found him on the 1901 and 1911 censuses living with Aunts and cousins, and the next mention of him is his wedding to Elsie Grove on August 1st 1918 in Old Hill, Staffordshire where he is listed as being an assistant foreman. Their family home was on Halesowen Road, Old Hill, Staffordshire and they had one daughter, my mother's cousin Dorothy. Dorothy was born in 1919 and passed away in 2009 but never really knew her father at all and was unable to shed any light on his "other life".
Jack sailed to Canada in 1922 on board the SS Scythia. His arrival documents reveal that he landed in Halifax, Nova Scotia on April 16th 1922 and was heading for Hill Top Farm, Kenaston, Saskatchewan where he was assured of farm work. The farm was owned by Mr James Richard Rock. I contacted Bonnie Dahl at the Saskatchewan Archive Board who was unable to find any records of Jack at all. She did tell me that James Rock had first applied for a homestead at Kenaston in 1910 and appeared on the Cummins map of 1922 as the landowner. His name does not appear on the 1930 map though.
Elsie is still named as his next of kin on Jack's arrival documents, but as far as I know, Jack never returned to England and neither Elsie nor Dorothy went to Canada. My Grandad often told me the story of how his brother left for Canada and he never heard from him after that. Jack and Elsie were eventually divorced and Elsie remarried in 1939. My mother never knew him either.
This is where my trail ends. Jack must have died before 1951 as he is listed as "deceased" on Dorothy's wedding registry entry for that year. So... where did Jack eventually end up? Did he really go to Hill Top Farm? Did he remarry and does he have family in Canada? Where is he buried?
I would love to find out the story of this elusive relative. Does anybody on Roots Chat have any suggestions or even better, do any of our Canadian friends have John (Jack) Taylor in their family tree?
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Saskatchewan is a hard province to trace ancestors for. Your John William may have settled there, however may have stopped before reachin Sask or went further across Canada. He may have gone to the USA to settle as well, so he may not have died as you suggest.
However, I found this on Ancestry indexs. I am unsure as to whether or not this belongs to your ancestor.
Canada, Voters Lists, 1935-1980
John W Taylor 1940 Assiniboia, Saskatchewan Assiniboia
John W Taylor 1949 Rosetown; Biggar, Saskatchewan Rosetown-Biggar
John W Taylor 1958 Rosthern, Saskatchewan Rosthern
John W Taylor 1962 Rosthern, Saskatchewan Rosthern
John W Taylor 1963 Rosthern, Saskatchewan Rosthern
John W Taylor 1974 Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Moose Jaw
All Saskatchewan, Canada, Residents Index (SRI), 1800-2012
John William Taylor 1928 Kinistino, Saskatchewan, Canada Death
John William Taylor 1971 Llewelyn, Saskatchewan, Canada Death
John William Taylor 1986 Kinistino, Saskatchewan, Canada Death
Saskatchewan, Canada, Burial Index, 1802-2011
John William Taylor 1928 Kinistino
John William Taylor 1971 Llewelyn
John William Taylor 1986 Kinistino
I hope this gives you a good starting point for your Canadian search :-)
JDC
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Thanks for the information JDC... My great Uncle Jack really is proving to be a hard man to trace.
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If you want to learn if he was still alive and living in Canada in 1940 and are willing to pay for the search then google "Canada national registration 1940". Every person over the age of 18 was required to register and carry proof of registration at all times during the war years. Archives Canada holds these records and will only release those of people who have been dead for at least 20 years or who were born more than 110 years ago. The fee for the search was $45.00 Canadian last time I looked.
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Just realized the records are held by Statistics Canada not the archives where any sensible person would expect them to be found. StatsCan will do the search for a fee then probably charge more to photocopy and mail any documents found regarding your great-uncle.
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You have to prove that they are deceased; hard to do since we don't have that info.
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Thanks for the information Manawakian... Jack would have been 120 this year, so maybe I can try the "born more than 110 years ago" route to see if there are some records. It's certainly worth a try...
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This site takes you to the page with info re the registration files. Look for the unobtrusive underlined word "order" to get to the page where you can order a search for an individual's file. If the person you are seeking is not found apparently the search fee will be rebated. If clicking on this link doesn't work try copy and paste.
http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/olc-cel/olc.action?lang=en&ObjId=93C0006&ObjType=22
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Are you certain Elsie was legally divorced when she remarried or is that an assumption because she remarried?
Do you know Jack's birth date or just the year?
Jacquie
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You're quite correct there.... I have no proof that Elsie and Jack were legally divorced, neither do I have any proof of his death. I do know that they were still married when he went to Canada. I have ordered a copy of Jack's birth certificate and it should be in my possession very soon. I have also discovered that the employment records for Stewarts & Lloyds steel works are in the Dudley Archives, which may also throw some light on his early life.
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I have a copy of his birth certificate now ... born 28th August 1895 at Bishton's Bridge, Netherton, Dudley, UK. (Bishton's Bridge was a pocket of land off Halesowen Road in Netherton owned by his Grandfather David Willetts where he had a pub, a chain works and a small coal mine).
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I contacted Bonnie Dahl at the Saskatchewan Archive Board who was unable to find any records of Jack at all. She did tell me that James Rock had first applied for a homestead at Kenaston in 1910 and appeared on the Cummins map of 1922 as the landowner. His name does not appear on the 1930 map though.
A little info on James Richard Rock who must have returned to the UK at some stage.
James Richard Rock of Oaklands Back Lane, Romsley, Halesowen, Staffs died 23 March 1959. Probate London to Elizabeth Rock (widow) Mary Jane Willetts, Edith Quest and Irene Elizabeth Dunn (married woman) Effects £3511 8 s 2d
Sandra
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UK Return Passenger List - Montreal Quebec to Liverpool - arriving 22 June 1924 - Megantic -
James Rock - aged 41 years - going to Old Hill Staff. Also travelling - Elizabeth aged 38 years, Edith 10 years, Aaron 7 years and Irene 4 years. Country of permanent residence had been Canada. Country if Intended future residence was England.
Sandra
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Thankyou for that Sandra, that really opens up a new avenue of research. Jack, his wife and his daughter also lived in Old Hill before he left for Canada. I wonder if there was another link between Jack and the Rock family. I will do some research into the Rock family and see if there are any other Old Hill connections. They may have originally been from the area which is why Jack headed out to meet them... I know of the house in Romsley too, I used to cycle past it when I lived in the Black Country. This is getting interesting now.
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wow... Sandra - I have done some more research tonight and discovered that James Rock was originally from Old Hill. The address given on James' arrival papers a few months earlier gives an address next door to Jack and his wife in Old Hill!.. so... It looks like Jack already knew James R Rock and they actually sailed to Canada together in April 1922. The story gets more interesting.
I also discovered that James' wife was still alive in 1985 living only a few miles away from my own home at the time.... oh how I wish I knew that then!
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Jack may have gone to the US and possibly changed his name. The U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index database at Ancestry has an entry for John William Taylor who was born in the UK on 28 Aug 1895. It gives his parents as John W. Taylor and Esther Willets. There is a note that says the following:
"May 1937: Name listed as JOHN WILLIAM TAYLOR; : Name listed as JOHN WILLIAM BROWN"
Jacquie
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What a great find Jacquie... That's him... I've just looked up some US records myself and found some military draft documents for him... Same name, same date of birth but gives his birthplace as Birmingham, England. Ooh - this getting good. I definitely know more about him already... Thanks for all the help and feedback everybody.
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Great news... I have his U.S. World War 2 Draft Registration Card from 1942. Living on 46th Street in New York and working as a waiter in Moran & McGuiness on 8th Avenue. The signature on the card is a perfect match for the signature on his marriage certificate and his Canadian form 30A. It looks like my quest for answers is moving onto the USA now. I visited my 87 year old Mum today who is Jack's niece. She was amazed and shocked as nobody in the family new where he was or what he was doing.... thanks for all your help fellow Rootschatters :o
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This record on the Social Security Death Index matches the birth date, so may be a possibility - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JRWJ-P3N