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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: murphydog on Monday 21 September 15 19:03 BST (UK)
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I have my g granddad on a 1911 census, which shows that he was born in Dundee in 1871. His name was Hugh McMenamy. This is definitely him as my gran was deaf and dumb and this is clearly recorded in the later census. I have him on the 1881, 1891 and 1901 censuses all showing him born in Dundee and the age tying up, with the exception of 1901 where he seems to be 6 years younger that he should be. I've struggled to find a birth cert for him, and the only Hugh born in Dundee in 1871 was illegitimate, born to Agnes McDonald, who later married another Hugh McMenemy in 1873. All good so far! On my grandmothers birth certificate her parents are shown as Hugh McMenemy and the mother as Agnes McMenemy nee Dowl - not McDonald as I had expected. I'm struggling to find any information on anyone called Dowl although the name does crop up but around the Shetlands. His birth is the only thing recorded as Dundee as everything else, censuses, marriage cert, birth certs of their children are in Glasgow. Can anyone help please?
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I'm a bit confused here so please excuse me if I'm barking up the wrong tree.
You have Hugh McMenamy b. 1871 son of Agnes McDonald.
Hugh marries and has a daughter (your grandmother).
Surely the daughter's mother is not Agnes McDonald? Would this not be her grandmother?
Hugh's wife could be Agnes Dowl, we don't have this information.
Apologies if I am totally wrong
Bevj
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... I've struggled to find a birth cert for him, and the only Hugh born in Dundee in 1871 was illegitimate, born to Agnes McDonald, who later married another Hugh McMenemy in 1873...
There is this birth index in 1872, is this the one you mean? https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYT6-JMC
Marriage that you mention here https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTV6-MM9 One other child here https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYG5-7QL - maybe died before the 1881 census.
Added: From what you mentioned 1881- everyone born in Glasgow except for young Hugh:
Hugh McMenamy 30 marble cutter
Agnes McMenamy 32
Hugh McMenamy 8
Alice McMenamy 6
Ellen E McMenamy 4
James P McMenamy 2
Nora McMenamy 2 Months
Address: 147 Gardner St, Glasgow/Milton
Monica
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When did your g grandad marry? Your grandmother's birth cert should have full details of the marriage...guessing she was born in Scotland?
Monica
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Just following through on censuses, from the entries you hopefully have to match, 1891:
Hugh McMenamy 38 marble fitter
Agness McMenamy 40
Hugh McMenamy 20 Carter b. Dundee
Margaret McMenamy 20 daughter in law
Alice McMenamy 16
Ellen McMenamy 14
Nora McMenamy 10
Agnes McMenamy 7
Address: 12 Oakbank St, Glasgow/Milton
Monica
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Ah, beat me to it, Monica!
Here's 1901:
1901 Cedar Place, Milton, Glasgow
Hugh McMenamy Carter b. Dundee + wife, Margaret
Alice 10
Nora 7
Margaret 6
Hugh 3
Just to add;
Hugh McMenamy married Margaret Boyle 1891 Milton, Glasgow (family search)
Nora McMenamy born Jan 1881 Milton, Glasgow (as in 1881 census above) parents were Hugh McMenamy & Agnes McMenamy (family search)
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Transcripts...hard sometimes!
Well done Br1gau on the 1901, was struggling!
Think the family is now 'relatively' straighforward, unless we are missing something more obvious...
Monica
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yes, I think so. Hugh McMenamy & Margaret Boyle's 1891 marriage cert would be a good one to go for first
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Hi Everyone
Many thanks for your help. Sorry for the confusion. Its my g g grandfather I am after! My grandmother (Margaret Ross McMenemy) was born in 1896 parents Hugh McMenemy and Margaret Boyle married 1890/91.
On their marriage cert - his parents are Hugh McMenemy and Agnes McMenemy (nee Dowl). The marriage cert says he is 18 suggesting he was born in 1873. This is were I am getting lost.
The only birth cert I can find for a (Hugh) birth in Dundee in 1871/2 is to an Agnes McDonald not Agnes Dowl as I was expecting. This and his marriage cert completely threw me.
To add to the (my) confusion I have a marriage certificate for a Hugh McMenemy and Agnes McDonald - married in Dundee in 1873. The young Hugh is a marble mason (same as his dad), but I don't think this is my family as "my" Hugh is a Carter in all of the censuses.
Thanks again to everyone for your help.
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Maybe a little more confusion?
The marriage that you have for Hugh McMenemeny Snr to an Agnes McDonald in 1873 in Dundee shows Hugh Snr being a marble cutter/fitter.
It is Hugh Jnr. born c. 1872 who shows as a carter by occupation in later years.
For Hugh Jnr, you have the following docs/images:
1872 birth of an illegitimate boy in Dundee, Hugh MacDonald, to Anges MacDonald (your Hugh Jnr was pretty consistent with his Dundee birth place).
1873 marriage between a Hugh McMenemeny (Snr) and an Agnes MacDonald
1881-1891 You have the family of Hugh McMenemy and Agnes, with their children in Glasgow, including the Dundee born eldest, Hugh Jnr. Indeed, in 1891, Hugh Jnr shows as just married with his wife Margaret in household of his parents.
1901 onwards, you have your Hugh Jnr with his wife and family going forward.
So, apart from a mistake/variation of mother Agnes' surname from MacDonald to Dowl on her son's marriage entry in 1890-1, you have so much on his whole family! Who were the witnesses to this marriage? What address was given for Hugh Jnr. at the time of his marriage to Margaret?
Have you checked Hugh Jnr.'s death registration to see what that says?
Have you firmed up and viewed Hugh McMenemy Snr and Agnes' marriage and death cert to firm up their parents?
You are pretty much there, murphydog, with all your hard work ;)
Monica :)
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Hi Monica
You are a genius - thank you!
I've looked for a death cert for Hugh many times over the last couple of years and never had any luck. Would you believe I've just found it! I've searched with the mothers maiden name Dowl or McDonald with no luck. I've just done a search without the mothers maiden name and there his is married to Margaret Boyle - his parents names were Hugh McMenemy and Agnes McDowell - got to be them.
The thing that was throwing me was that everyone seemed to be from Glasgow and then a random birth in Dundee. Both his parents were born in Glasgow but married in Dundee mmmm problem for another day I think.
Many thanks for your help. :)
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All sorts of reasons why they may have met and married in Dundee. My ggg grandfather Patrick Tulley, a mason from Lanarkshire, was in Rothesay in the early 1880s, working most likely. He there met and married Margaret MacDonald from Moidart in the Highlands, who was in service in a big house in the north of Bute in the 1880s.
This all happens...even today ;)
Monica
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Hi I am descended from Hugh McMenemy, your Grans brother.