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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: Trees on Sunday 20 September 15 19:17 BST (UK)

Title: Help with a Mormon problem Utah
Post by: Trees on Sunday 20 September 15 19:17 BST (UK)
I have now found four Mormon connections to our tree not direct line but nether the less interesting. BUT now I have hit a strange problem.
I'm looking at the North Devon Bale family and find that 4 brothers emigrated more or less at the same time . Three settled in Canada and appear on various censuses as Methodists. The fourth went to Utah and married there
"Anna Bibbins Chaffee Bale (1811 - 1881)  - Daughter of Amos Chaffee and Harmony Crary. Married Elijah Fordham, 3 Oct 1838, Ashford, Windham, Connecticut.  Children: Amos Pierre Fordham, Lydia Lovonia Fordham.
Married Joseph Bale, 27 Feb 1857, Salt Lake City, Salt Lake, Utah."
I have seen photos of her memorial on several An..ry trees
Anna Bibbins Chaffee Fordham Bale 24 March 1811-8 December 1881
she married in a plural marriage  Elijah Fordham, 3 Oct 1838, Ashford, Windham, Connecticut.
but Elijah Fordham did not die until 1879 well after she married Joseph Bale.
There are several accounts of Elijah#s life on line none mentioning a divorce although all mention his marriage to Anna
an anyone help to get to the true situation please.
Are there any censuses available that show Anna after 1857 were any of her Fordham children with her and Joseph for example. Are there records of Mormon divorce?
Hope some one can shine a light on the situation
Trees ???

Title: Re: Helpwith a Motmon problem
Post by: *Sandra* on Sunday 20 September 15 19:49 BST (UK)
1850 Great Salt Lake, Utah Territory,

Anna B Fordham  40
Amos O Fordham  10 Born Iowa  Anna M Fordham  6 Born Illinois
Joseph Fordham  Born Iowa 4 Emily Fordham  0  Born Des
Achsa White  39
Henry White  20

1860 The daughter Anna, Joseph, Elija and Delia (probably Emily on the 1850  ???) Fordham was with her father Elijah - Great Salt Lake City Ward 17, Great Salt Lake, Utah Territory

Elijah Fordham  62 Amelia Fordham  47
Elizabeth Fordham  20  Amos P Fordham  18
Elijah Fordham  3 Joseph Fordham  11
George Fordham  30 Anna Fordham  15
Delia Fordham  10

Sandra



Title: Re: Helpwith a Motmon problem
Post by: *Sandra* on Sunday 20 September 15 19:54 BST (UK)
Have you read these entries on FIND A GRAVE they give some good accounts. Sadly not one for Anna Bibbins Chaffee Bale

Elijah Fordham -

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=9347388

Daughter Anna Marie Fordham Deakin

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=40051811

Sandra

Title: Re: Helpwith a Motmon problem
Post by: *Sandra* on Sunday 20 September 15 20:15 BST (UK)
Strange the children are with Anna and Joseph as well according to this 1860 census 3d Ward Great Salt Lake City, Salt Lake, Utah Territory. Under the spelling BAEL and Joseph as Josiah Bael  ???

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MH2W-RZB

Josiah Bael      48   Connecticut
Anna Bael      49      Connecticut
Joseph Bael   13   Iowa
Emily Bael      9   Utah
Anna M Bael   16   Illinois
John Gardner   54   England

Sandra


Anna married 1863 as per find a grave entry - Joseph Ellijah married 10 July 1870
Title: Re: Helpwith a Motmon problem
Post by: *Sandra* on Sunday 20 September 15 21:00 BST (UK)
Joseph Bale - 13th Ward Gsl City - Salt Lake County - 1856

Joseph Bale - 8 S bet 2 and 3 E - Salt Lake City - 1879

Joseph Bale - 231 e Eighth South - Salt Lake - 1884

Joseph Bale - 1814 England - Died 27 March 1890 - Burial - 27 March 1890 - Salt Lake City, Utah.

Membership of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1830-1848

Joseph Bale - 18 November 1814 - Father Joseph Bale Mother Prudence Curtis - Brick Mason - Spouse Anna Bibbons Chaffee 
Baptism Date - May 7, 1844 Patriarchal Blessing Date: December 4, 1842 Nauvoo, Hancock, Illinois USA Officiator: Smith, H.

https://www.namesinstone.com/Sources.aspx?dec=581493

FIND A GRAVE

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=40372661&ref=acom

Sandra
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem
Post by: Trees on Sunday 20 September 15 22:39 BST (UK)
Sorry I had to disappear for a while.
Josh that is all very interesting so have Anna and Elijah already split up by 1850 or was it norm for plural marriage families to live quiet separately so it isn't odd that Elijah wasn't with the family? umm  I will read those links and get back to the thread
Many thanks I wasn't sure you would be able to get the censuses from the States as well as Canada I really do value your help :)
Title: Re: Helpwith a Motmon problem
Post by: Trees on Sunday 20 September 15 23:10 BST (UK)
How odd the children under different surnames but with the same ages and place of birth on both censuses. I have found a situation before when the great con man of my tree Edwin Turner Osbaldeston appears on two different USA censuses with two different families in the same year ..in that case it was possible as the different states took the census on different dates. Is this a similar scenario i wonder. it looks like both parents have "claimed the children" How sad I hope they were not too traumatised. Anna doesn't mention her parents splitting up in her biography does she we can only wonder at it all at this distance through time.How odd too that Joseph has changed his birth place from Devon to Connecticut. Had Joseph and Anna left the Mormon  community do you think its all very confusing She must have been divorced as it looks like a formal marriage with Joseph Bale
Josh I wish these were closer to the trunk of my tree rather than being out on the limbs must e mail all this now to your name sake I have shown her a few corrections and pointed her to Roots chat I do hope she joins in.
H.
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem
Post by: Trees on Monday 21 September 15 07:54 BST (UK)
I did wonder if they separated when the authorities started arresting the men for polygamy but looking at the family I already have that seemed to be around 1887 so well after this apparent divorce. Would they have had to divorce before she married again though I suppose legally they weren't married at all. The one I know who was arrested the 2nd and 3rd wives also stood trial only the first wife was considered truly married. Am I right in thinking Anna married Joseph Bale with the name Anna Bibbins Chaffee not Anna Bibbins Fordham? That would mean it wasn't considered her legal name or would it? umm this is fascinating
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem
Post by: Trees on Monday 21 September 15 08:19 BST (UK)
Ahh I have found this https://familysearch.org/photos/images/7142860?p=3026102
It says "Elijah married Ann Bibbins CHAFFEE 3rd October 1838.....the sealing of Elijah and Anna Bibbins was cancelled 29 October 1851 it was later reinstated by their family she married Joseph Bale 27 February 1857 in salt Lake City and were sealed in the endowment house the same day" Apparently Elijah and Joseph worked together.
Now what does this mean is the cancelling of a seal the same as a divorce?  I am confused by the terminology is an endowment a marriage is the marriage legally accepted or only true with in the Mormon community? Oh help its very strange .
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 21 September 15 09:58 BST (UK)
I don't think they got divorced as such at that time, the cancelling of the temple seal was the end of the marriage. Then when Anna remarried to Joseph Bale that marriage was sealed in time and eternity.
In 1890, church president Wilford Woodruff issued a Manifesto that officially terminated the practice of polygamy but didn't dissolve existing plural marriages.

Sandra
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 21 September 15 10:13 BST (UK)
1870 census Utah, shows Annie with husband William Deakin but no sign of mother and Joseph Bale
page is very faint.

William Deakin  37 Annie M Deakin  25
Annie M Deakin  5 Emala Deakin  3 Mary Deakin  1


https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MNCR-6PK

Sandra

Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 21 September 15 10:17 BST (UK)
1880 census Wellsville, Cache, Utah - Annie, William and children - so sign of mother and Joseph Bale.

P. William Deakin  47   A. Anne Deakin  36
A. Moriah Pepper  15  J. Mary Deakin  11
W. John Deakin  9   J. Elijah Deakin  7
P. Robert Deakin  4  D. Lilian Deakin  6 months

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MNSJ-DSJ

Sandra
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 21 September 15 10:24 BST (UK)
I wonder if this 1870 census would be a possibility for Joseph and Anna  ???  Occupation for Joseph fits quite well   ;D St George, Washington, Utah Territory.

Joseph Ball  58 Born England. Brick Mason. Value of Real Estate $500. Value of personal estate $150
Annie Ball  59 Born Conn.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MNCB-L6G

Looks like Bale on the image.  ;D

Sandra
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem Utah
Post by: Trees on Monday 21 September 15 11:12 BST (UK)
Now that looks like them well done I'd never get this information with out your help
Many many thanks for your continued support
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 21 September 15 17:02 BST (UK)
I wonder if this 1870 census would be a possibility for Joseph and Anna  ???  Occupation for Joseph fits quite well   ;D St George, Washington, Utah Territory.

Joseph Ball  58 Born England. Brick Mason. Value of Real Estate $500. Value of personal estate $150
Annie Ball  59 Born Conn.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MNCB-L6G

Looks like Bale on the image.  ;D

Sandra

Looks like I found this one on the other thread reply 31 - January 2011 (and I usually have a good memory  ;))

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=505534.27

Sandra
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem Utah
Post by: Trees on Monday 21 September 15 23:30 BST (UK)
So you did I wonder why I haven't added it at that point its now well and truely added
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem Utah
Post by: *Sandra* on Thursday 24 September 15 19:51 BST (UK)
Copied this over from the other Bale thread

There are several different versions of Elijah Fordham;s biography I have now found references that Anna Bibbins Chaffee left him when he wanted to take another wife, their "sealing" was cancelled and she married Joseph Bale. What is not clear is how many more wives he took and who they were . Some say three more others four most seem to agree he married two on the same day though one thinks this was not true the two were sealed or endowed together. One account also say he married a widow and wanted to marry her daughter at the same time but the younger woman refused and was banished from the home..
The 1860 census Sandra found shows him with 20 year old Elizabeth this was the Welsh born
Elizabeth HUGHES who he married when she was 16 and he 58. Her sister had been married at 14. Is there any way I can find the truth of all his marriages?

1.  This one you have accounted for - Elijah married Anna Bibbins Chaffee - 3 oct 1838 Ashford Wyndham Ontario.
2.  Then there was Amelia Brown Spencer 1 April 1856 Salt Lake City Utah (they were the couple on the 1860 census)

There are also others listed on family search -

SPOUSE

Bithiah FISHER - MARRIAGE - 12 April 1830 Oakland City, Oakland, Mich.


Elizabeth HUGHES - Marriage -21 March 1850 - Salt Lake City, Salt Lake, Utah


Jane Ann Fisher - Marriage - 23 November 1822 New York City, New York, NY


Clarissa BROOKS OR FOSDICK - Marriage -  February 1846 New York City, New York


Jane Marshall MCAUSLAN - Marriage - 1 April 1856

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:1:M7VP-8JX

Sandra
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem Utah
Post by: *Sandra* on Thursday 24 September 15 19:58 BST (UK)
This was the daughter from the first marriage - Bethiah

Mrs Bethiah Wells - Born 29 June 1831 Oakland Michigan - Obituary-20 Feb 1920 Utah.
Death Place Willard. Newspaper -   Box Elder News

http://udn.lib.utah.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/boxelder/id/72958/show/72958/rec/1

Sandra
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem Utah
Post by: *Sandra* on Thursday 24 September 15 20:02 BST (UK)
FIND A GRAVE

Bithiah Fordham Wells

Burial: Willard Precinct Cemetery  Willard Box Elder County Utah.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=WE&GSpartial=1&GSbyrel=all&GSst=47&GScntry=4&GSsr=3241&GRid=47544321&

US International Marriage Record shows Bithiah Fordham married 1849

Sandra
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem Utah
Post by: *Sandra* on Thursday 24 September 15 20:07 BST (UK)
Church of Latter Day Saints - Bathia Fordham

Father Elijah Fordham - Mother Bethiah Fisher

Birth Date 2 Jun 1825 - Alternate Birth Dates -2  June  1831
Birth Place - Oakland, Oakland, Michigan, USA
Alternate Birth Places - Pontiac, Oakland, Michigan USA
Death Date 11 Feb 1920  - Alternate Death Dates - 18  February 1920
LDS Church Ordinance Data Baptism Date - 2 June 1881
LDS Temple Data -  Baptism Date - 31 March1966 - Endowment Date - 3  February  1846 Temple -  Nauvoo, Hancock, Illinois.  Endowment Date 12 September 1966 - Temple -  Logan, Cache, Utah -  Sealed to Parents Date January 17, 1895 Temple - Logan, Cache, Utah.

Sandra
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem Utah
Post by: *Sandra* on Thursday 24 September 15 20:10 BST (UK)
Biography of Bithiah Fordham Wells

https://familysearch.org/photos/stories/13165861

Sandra
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem Utah
Post by: *Sandra* on Thursday 24 September 15 20:22 BST (UK)
Spouse -   Jane Ann Fisher - married 23 November 1822 at New York City, New York.
Children -  Ann Eliza Fordham, George Fisher Fordham, Jane Olivia Fordham.
Wife Jane Ann dies in Manhattan, New York, New York, at age 26 18 July 1828 aged 30 years.

Spouse - Bethiah (Bathiah, Bathia, Bithiah) Fisher married 12 April 1830  New York City - aged 32 years
Wife Bathia (Bathiah, Bethiah) dies in Pontiac, Oakland, Michigan 11 March 1834 aged 36 years.


Spouse -   Anna Bibbins Chaffee married 3 October 1838 at Ashford, Windham, Connecticut
Children -  Lydia Lovina Fordham, Amos Pierre Fordham, Anna Maria Fordham, Joseph Elijah Fordham, Mary Louisa Fordham, Emily Adelia Fordham.

Spouse -   Amelia [Brown?]
There was a chronology someone wrote earlier this year about Amelie incluiding this piece.

October 1850, Salt Lake City -  Upon arrival in the city, Amelia was greeted by Addison Everett, who had been the branch president in NYC, and was an old friend.  He and his wife invited Amelia and her two girls to live with them temporarily.   By the following spring, they are listed as being in the household of Elijah Fordham, and in 1856 Amelia  married  him.

1861, Salt Lake City -  Amelia is divorced from Elijah Fordham sometime soon after this year.  No record shows her going to St. George with Elijah

Passed away May 1877 - Amelia died in St. George, buried as Amelia Brown Spencer Smith.  Death records list her this way, but her cemetery marker says Amelia Brown Spencer.  [I (read chronology) was told that the surname Smith was attached because she was sealed to Joseph Smith after his death.]

http://billiongraves.com/pages/record/Amelia-Spencer-Spencer-Brown/1807895#given_names=Amelia&family_names=Brown

https://familysearch.org/photos/stories/13623682

Spouse -   Clarissa Brooks or Fosdick born 15 August 1799 -  Goshen, Litchfield Co., Connecticut may have married 6 Feb. 1846 New York City.

Has Jane Ann Fisher and Bathiah Fisher sealed to him 12 May 1848 - aged 48 years.

Spouse -   Elizabeth Hughes married 21 March 1856 Salt Lake City Utah.
Child -  Elizabeth Mary Fordham

Spouse -   Jane Marshall McAuslan born 12 March 1828 - Kirkintilloch, Dunbartonshire, Scotland  may have married 1 April 1856 in Salt Lake City, Utah Territory - divorced  30 July 1858 Salt Lake City, Utah
Children -  William Elijah Fordham born 5 Jan 1857, Salt Lake City, Utah


http://familyrecorder.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/elijah-fordham-1798-1879.html

Busy chap  ;D
Sandra
Title: Re: Helpwith a Motmon problem
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 25 September 15 10:41 BST (UK)
1850 Great Salt Lake, Utah Territory,

Anna B Fordham  40
Amos O Fordham  10 Born Iowa  Anna M Fordham  6 Born Illinois
Joseph Fordham  Born Iowa 4 Emily Fordham  0  Born Des
Achsa White  39
Henry White  20

1860 The daughter Anna, Joseph, Elija and Delia (probably Emily on the 1850  ???) Fordham was with her father Elijah - Great Salt Lake City Ward 17, Great Salt Lake, Utah Territory

Elijah Fordham  62 Amelia Fordham  47
Elizabeth Fordham  20  Amos P Fordham  18
Elijah Fordham  3 Joseph Fordham  11
George Fordham  30 Anna Fordham  15
Delia Fordham  10

Sandra

Elijah was with Amelia in 1850 Great Salt Lake county, Great Salt Lake, Utah Territory.

Elijah Fordham    54  New York
Amelia Fordham    46  New York
Julia Fordham     13  New York  Julia was Julia Josephine Spencer.
Henrietta Fordham     12 New York

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MCS6-B9X

Sandra
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem Utah
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 25 September 15 10:54 BST (UK)
Clarissa Fosdick  - Born  15 Aug 1799 - Goshen, Litchfield, Connecticut.

Residences: Missouri,


L D S Endowment Date - January 12, 1846 Temple: Nauvoo, Hancock, Illinois.

Clarissa Fosdick  Self (Head)
Elijah Fordham  Spouse

Sandra
 
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem Utah
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 25 September 15 10:57 BST (UK)
1850 - St Louis Ward 5, St Louis (Independent City), Missouri

Louis Grant  35 Eliza Grant  27
Elvira J Grant  6
Clarrisa Fosdick  50

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5PC-69Z

1860 - St Louis Ward 8, St Louis (Independent City), Missouri

Clarissa Fosdick  61
Elvira Grand  16

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MH83-5JX

Clarisan Fosdick born 1800 passed away 31 August 1865 - aged 65 years - Hertto St Louis.
Cemetery - Wesleyan 

Sandra


Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem Utah
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 25 September 15 11:05 BST (UK)
Membership of The Church of Christ Latter Day Saints - Clarissa Fosdick - Spouse - 6 February 1846 - Elijah Fordham  Self (Head)
Jane Ann Fisher  Spouse  - Anne Eliza Fordham  Child  - George Fordham  Child
Bethiah Fisher  Spouse - Bathiah Fordham  Child  - Mormon Fordham  Child
Anna Bibbins Chaffee  Spouse - Lydia Lovina Fordham  Child - Amos Pier Fordham  Child
Anna Maria Fordham  Child - Joseph Fordham  Child  - Mary Louisa Fordham  Child
Emily Adelia Fordham  Child
Clarissa Fosdick  Spouse  Elizabeth Mary Fordham  Child
Jane Marshall McAuslan  Spouse  William Elijah Fordham  Child
Amelia Spencer  Spouse

Sandra
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem Utah
Post by: Trees on Friday 25 September 15 11:22 BST (UK)
Look no Elizabeth Hughes
then look Look reply 16
Elizabeth HUGHES - Marriage -21 March 1850 - Salt Lake City, Salt Lake, Utah
and reply26
   Elizabeth Hughes married 21 March 1856 Salt Lake City Utah.

This is exactly the problem I am having there are several different versions of Elijah's biography all giving conflicting dataseveral give his marriage to  Amelia as April 1 1856 ton the same day as the marriage to Jane Marshall MCAUSLAN  and just a month after he married Elizabeth! So the earlier date for Elizabeth's marriage looks more likely but then she would only have been 10!!!
but this one http://www.longislandsurnames.com/getperson.php?personID=I03111&tree=Fordhamhas:
 "The 1856 date comes from the record of Susan Ward Easton-Black's „Membership of the LDS Church.‰ Easton-Black has Amelia sealed to Elijah (1 Apr 1856) before they were married (which she gives as 6 Apr 1856), not a possible circumstance. Easton-Black says her information came from a Family Group Sheet filled out by Elijah Fordham himself. But the 1850 federal census shows that Amelia and Elijah were married in 1850. Thus my conclusion is that there was a typo in Easton-Black's work or that Fordham‚s handwriting on the family group sheet led her to misinterpret an "0" as a "6." Thus the marriage year is not 1856, but 1850. They were sealed on April 1, 1856[."

This ttps://familysearch.org/photos/stories/13623682  also says
 "When Amelia got to Utah, she was taken in by both Addison Everett and his wife and by Elijah Fordham, who wanted to marry both her and her young daughter Julia, according to various family accounts."

Its so confusing and hard to know what the truth actually was.
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem Utah
Post by: Trees on Friday 25 September 15 18:06 BST (UK)
Oh dear this one"Pioneers and prominent men of Utah By Frank Esshom" page 875  says that Elizabeth Hughes married Elijah and Amos Pierre Fordhan son of Elijah and Anna Bibbins CHAFFEE
there is also a tree on Rootsweb with Elizabeth married to Amos showing her parents the same as the one married to Elijah...
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=8794549 for Amos Pierre Fordham also has him married to Elizabeth Hughes.
Oh dear what is the correct one what documents can we believe? They are driving me crazy
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem Utah
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 25 September 15 19:52 BST (UK)
It is difficult, I spent a couple of hours last night and a few hours today to try and collate all the information with what records I could find.  Probably one of those mysteries that will never be fully solved because of conflicting information.

The link in reply 16 goes to a pedigree file where both marriages to both father and son are mentioned.

On the 1860 census Elizabeth Hughes, daughter Elizabeth Fordham and Amos are all with Elijah.  By 1870 Brighton, Salt Lake, Utah Territory. Amos is with Elizabeth and a daughter May Fordham - The daughter of Elijah and Elizabeth - Elizabeth Fordham passed away in 1867. By 1880 Amos is married to Lydia Alice Brandon Fordham (Alice)

This was the daughter Elizabeth Mary Fordham, (4 April 1867)  also shown is the mother of Elizabeth Hughes - Ann Picton. 

FIND A GRAVE

Burial Salt Lake City Cemetery  Salt Lake City Salt Lake County Utah.
Plot: E-7-11

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=31296080&PIpi=13956760


Sandra
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem Utah
Post by: Trees on Saturday 26 September 15 00:02 BST (UK)
No I am sure that Ann Picton was Elizabeth Hughes' mother her husband died of Cholera on journey from wales leaving Ann with a son age 10 and five little girls. I 'll look to see if Julia Ann was one of the other daughters
Now why is julia Ann Clark on the same memorial
https://familysearch.org/patron/v2/TH-300-46926-153-36/dist.pdf?ctx=ArtCtxPublic&session=USYS8563C7FD4C117732318AF040D0DE85B0_idses-prod02.a.fsglobal.net
Julia Ann
Clark f. JosephOClark+Ann
 [2P5B-P1] 
 born 28 Dec 1856 in Salt Lake City, Salt Lake, Utah Territory; LDS Baptized 10 Jul
1894 in LOGAN; LDS Endowed 11 Jul 1894 in LOGAN; LDS Sealed to
Parents 27 Nov 1962; died 2 May 1877 in <Salt Lake
City, Salt Lake,
Utah Territory>; buried May 1877 in Salt Lake City
Cemetery, Salt Lake
City, Salt Lake, Utah Territory.  She married (1) David John Taylor
 (2) Alfred James Stratton

Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem Utah
Post by: Trees on Sunday 27 September 15 14:38 BST (UK)
Still plodding along trying to prepare a profile for Elijah and his many wives but I just have to share this little find
Elijah and Anna Bibbins Chaffee had a daughter Ann Maria
She married John Pepper 07 Mar 1863 • Salt Lake City, Salt Lake, Utah, USA
they in turn had a daughter Annie Mariah PEPPER
she married Charles W SALT 7 Mar 1895 • Utah, Utah, United States
making her Annie Mariah Pepper Salt
I bet their food was well seasoned
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem Utah
Post by: *Sandra* on Sunday 27 September 15 16:13 BST (UK)


 ;D ;D ;D lol

Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem
Post by: ~Tricia~ on Thursday 03 December 15 04:43 GMT (UK)

Now what does this mean is the cancelling of a seal the same as a divorce?  I am confused by the terminology is an endowment a marriage is the marriage legally accepted or only true with in the Mormon community? Oh help its very strange .
I am not sure if this was answered:
"Sealing" is an ordinance that is performed in the LDS temples. It is believed by the Mormons that  a couple can be sealed together for all time and eternity. Families can be sealed to each other as well. Canceling the sealing was not a divorce. It is just a recognition that they won't be sealed together.  When Anna canceled the sealing, she was wanting to get married and "sealed" to her soon to be  second husband.

An endowment is an ordinance performed in the temple. People have to have this first before getting married and sealed in the temple. I am going to make this easy on me and post a link.

http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/mormon/endowment/
LDS marriages are legally accepted, expect involving polygamy.

Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem Utah
Post by: Trees on Thursday 03 December 15 11:05 GMT (UK)
Great Tricia that makes it a lot clearer In a sort of way endowment is parallel with confirmation after a period of instruction allowing full membership of the church and allowing the person to be more open to the Holy Ghost. And a promise to do God's Will and work in return for His presence with that person.LDS Confirmation seems to be imediately after baptism so doesn't seem to be the same thing as I understand it from the anglican point of view. out of interest if a child has to be of the age of understanding to be baptisedare they not considered members of the church community before that time?
In the UK even before civil registrations in 1837 marriages had to be entered in registers and had to happen in established churches what was the situation in America Were marriages registered anywhere or only recorded where they happened? I have found two of my Mormons apparently marrying on the trek would these marriages be recorded somewhere and who was legally able to preform such marriages? There is an interesting account on line about A W EVINS performing plural marriages in Mexico. There is no mention of how these were registered, although he kept his own list of who he had married both locals and visitors. It seems enough that the people concerned knew they has been through the ceremony conducted by the priest. I have seen plenty of death certificates bit not one marriage certificate.
With out any official proof of marriage how could a divorce occur? One of the people I have been looking at says his wife came to him and asked for her clothes as she was going to marry someone else another account shows a "wife" going to the prison with her intended new spouse to tell her husband she was leaving him even though they had nine children.He was in jail for having two wives so it seemed harsh he had to serve the term out even though she had left him.
Was this the same situation out side the LDS at that time? Were marriages generally not recorded and could folk just walk away and form new relationships at will?
I know UK registration became law in 1837 when did it happen in the States?
This project is proving to be very interesting .
Many thanks for all your help with it.
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem Utah
Post by: ~Tricia~ on Thursday 03 December 15 14:34 GMT (UK)
As for marrying and records and such. In the early years of the church, records of memberships, marriages, and such were at time sketchy. Sometimes non-exsistent. The early time in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS)/aka Mormon was very volatile. Most people did not receive the Mormon Message well. There were many deaths. The members of the church even had to hide the murdered prophet, Joseph Smith's body - their prophet,so the mobs wouldn't take it. Members fled to different areas. I can see why there may not be records of  marriages, births, deaths, etc.
Marriage registration was variable in each state. I have ancestors from OH and marriage records started in the 1830's. But in Michigan, as early as 1867. Of course, if you know which church the ancestor attended/religion, you might have better luck. That is assuming there were an catastrophes that damaged church records.

"It seems enough that the people concerned knew they has been through the ceremony conducted by the priest. I have seen plenty of death certificates bit not one marriage certificate. "~~This is an interesting observation.
I have many LDS friends. I will ask a few and get back to you. They might provide some insight and links to help with your research.


Male members of the church, worthy of such, would "earn" or "prepare" to receive the priesthood. (https://www.mormon.org/faq/purpose-of-priesthood)
There are different levels of the priesthood.  The younger boys were often deacons. They could bless and serve the sacrament. Adult men would work toward becoming an Elder. An Elder can perform rights in the temple (with training). They can marry people outside the temple in a civil ceremony. They can also perform blessings. For those who are sick or troubled.

So, an Elder in the church, including the male ancestors you are researching, I would believe held the priesthood. They can marry persons. Also, in order for them to get married/sealed in the temple, they would have to hold the priesthood/maintain a worthy office of Elder. Does this make sense?

Sorry if this seems jumbled. I worked a night shift and hope it makes sense.


Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem Utah
Post by: Trees on Thursday 03 December 15 18:49 GMT (UK)
Indeed it does all make perfect sense I am very grateful for your explanations. There is so much on line about the families I am totally engrossed with their stories between them they seem to have been committed to just about every migration and skirmish with Indians Mobsters and Mexicans and so many of the children eventually were involved in plural marriages.
Today I have found a great web site with detailed description of the very journey taken by one of mine on the Ellen Marie to New Orleans then the steamer Alexander Scott up the Mississippi. I love the description of how the Mormons were dressed in agricultural labourers clothes and saw slaves accompanying their Mistresses all dressed in fine silk clothes  and how children on the banks threw fresh oranges aboard to them from the river banks  fascinating it is all painting a very full picture of their lives in their new home.
Title: Re: Help with a Mormon problem Utah
Post by: ~Tricia~ on Friday 04 December 15 15:37 GMT (UK)
Lucky you to have so much info to read over! Such bits treasure. It was a very different life at that time. I can't imagine living on the edge...so much hardship and fear....and joy too!