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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Beeonthebay on Tuesday 15 September 15 18:56 BST (UK)

Title: Clergyman ....or not?
Post by: Beeonthebay on Tuesday 15 September 15 18:56 BST (UK)
Hello I have also posted this on a Dublin thread on here but I thought I'd post it here too for confirmation as there seem to be many handwriting experts on this thread.  Apologies if this is not allowed but I want to be doubly sure before I spend any more hours looking for clergymen in Ireland or England.

Is the groom's father Samuel Browna clergyman or am I reading that ever so wrongly?

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=730531.msg5756523#msg5756523

Title: Re: Clergyman ....or not?
Post by: Aquilegia18 on Tuesday 15 September 15 18:59 BST (UK)
Definitely clergyman.
Title: Re: Clergyman ....or not?
Post by: fanny-gas-light on Tuesday 15 September 15 20:35 BST (UK)
Yes I agree clergyman though when I first saw it I thought it said clingyman.. sorry ;-)
Title: Re: Clergyman ....or not?
Post by: Beeonthebay on Wednesday 16 September 15 07:19 BST (UK)
Thank you both.  When I first saw it I saw clergyman then I started having my doubts because it's unheard of in my family  :o and I saw clingyman and everything else too lol.
Title: Re: Clergyman ....or not?
Post by: sami on Wednesday 16 September 15 17:16 BST (UK)
Just adding my agreement to the others. Definitely Clergyman.

sami
Title: Re: Clergyman ....or not?
Post by: Beeonthebay on Wednesday 16 September 15 19:33 BST (UK)
Thank you Sami  :)
Title: Re: Clergyman ....or not?
Post by: sami on Wednesday 16 September 15 23:00 BST (UK)
Hi:

Thought this was interesting. Came across this 1848 marriage and thought of your Clergyman.

In this case 'Clergyman' was mistakenly entered and then corrected to 'Clerk". I guess its also possible your ancestor wasn't exactly a Clergyman but had some role in the Church.

Just a thought  :)

sami
Title: Re: Clergyman ....or not?
Post by: Suffolkgal on Thursday 17 September 15 00:47 BST (UK)

In this case 'Clergyman' was mistakenly entered and then corrected to 'Clerk". I guess its also possible your ancestor wasn't exactly a Clergyman but had some role in the Church.


I think you'll find that clerk is often used to refer to a clergyman - as is cleric.
Title: Re: Clergyman ....or not?
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 17 September 15 01:35 BST (UK)
The above example qualified the occupation of Clergyman by adding "of the Church of England". It was obviously an error. I would not automatically assume that Clergyman means Clerk in BeeontheBay's case.

Have you looked for Samuel Brown in any census to see what his occupation is? Or the birth of the child whose marriage certificate you have? Either or both of these might help clarify. :-\

Title: Re: Clergyman ....or not?
Post by: Beeonthebay on Thursday 17 September 15 07:52 BST (UK)
Hhhmmm some food for thought there.

My ancestor Thomas Brown is living in Liverpool and says on the 1861 census he was born in Dublin.  I've tried looking online for Samuel Brown, but not in a serious way until I knew the occupation.  I haven't gone any further really with this line.

Obviously this man as his father is not a RC priest  :o so what kind of clergyman would he have been?  The above church marriage is C of E.  Church of Ireland?  Presbyterian?  How did Irish people speak in 1857 regarding religious titles?   I'm sitting here speaking out loud saying clergyman with an Irish accent.  ;D
Title: Re: Clergyman ....or not?
Post by: Wiggy on Thursday 17 September 15 10:18 BST (UK)
Probably Church of Ireland (i.e. Anglican in Ireland quite probably).

 Another name for clergy was 'Clerk in Holy Orders' I think  -  pretty sure.  Just googled to make sure - yep!!

Reckon your example is definitely Clergyman.

Wiggy 
Title: Re: Clergyman ....or not?
Post by: Geoff-E on Thursday 17 September 15 11:52 BST (UK)
Another name for clergy was 'Clerk in Holy Orders I think ...

Lots of them in the 1841 census
Title: Re: Clergyman ....or not?
Post by: ChrissieL on Friday 18 September 15 14:40 BST (UK)
Interestingly on the WDYTYA episode with Anne Reid (a poor episode) her GG grandfather was transported to Tasmania.  Having served his sentence he became a clerk, but on his Son's marriage certificate his occupation was given as clergyman

Chris
Title: Re: Clergyman ....or not?
Post by: Beeonthebay on Friday 18 September 15 18:30 BST (UK)
Yes Chris I noted that last night and I think my Thomas Brown could have been telling porkies too.  ::)

This morning I contacted both the Church of Ireland and the Presbyterian History Society.  Both replied promptly nothing for the Church of Ireland but there was a Samuel Edgar Brown who was a Presbyterian minister and for a few moments there I got all excited.  :o

This church minister was at Bally something then Athlone, she told me he died in London in 1901 (I was starting to get doubts by now unless he lived to a very old age) and he was married to the daughter of Richard King of Dublin, (I replied after 5pm asking about dates, so don't expect a reply until next Monday but it doesn't matter anyway now :'(  )

I started digging and found church histories for this man at the above churches, sadly for me this Samuel Edgar Brown seems to come from far too posh a family for my humble lot. He gets married a few years after his "son" does too so unless it was his second marriage in his later years he will have to be ruled out unless a miracle happens but this family seem to be high flyers in the church, very, very unlikely to be one of mine!!   

Back to the drawing board.......maybe I should check out the criminal registers.  :o
Title: Re: Clergyman ....or not?
Post by: Beeonthebay on Friday 18 September 15 18:31 BST (UK)
p.s.  I agree it was a very poor episode indeed.  All those records could be found here in the UK and on the Tasmanian Heritage archives, still I suppose the film crew had a nice jolly downunder.
Title: Re: Clergyman ....or not?
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 22 September 15 10:59 BST (UK)
Rev. Samuel Edgar Brown (lic. Belfast), son of Rev. John Smith Brown (d.1880) & ? Edgar, nephew of Rev. Dr. John Edgar, retied 12 Sept,1896 and died 24 Mar.1901
1859-1861 First Ballywalter
1861-1878 Athlone
1878-1896 Clough (Antrim)
Title: Re: Clergyman ....or not?
Post by: Beeonthebay on Tuesday 22 September 15 13:26 BST (UK)
Rev. Samuel Edgar Brown (lic. Belfast), son of Rev. John Smith Brown (d.1880) & ? Edgar, nephew of Rev. Dr. John Edgar, retied 12 Sept,1896 and died 24 Mar.1901
1859-1861 First Ballywalter
1861-1878 Athlone
1878-1896 Clough (Antrim)

Thank you Aghadowey, I researched this man thoroughly last week after being given his name by the Irish Presbyterian church, however unless he was very old when he started his ministering he can't be mine.  I am waiting back to hear from them if they know of a DOB for this man, it would have to be a second marriage to Miss King too, as my ancestor was born in 1830 something, this plus the fact I've never heard a word in the family about a man of the cloth or any inklings - this man seems to be quite posh too, unlike my lot..........
Title: Re: Clergyman ....or not?
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 22 September 15 13:34 BST (UK)
Samuel Edgar Brown's death registration gives his age as 69, so born c1832.
Title: Re: Clergyman ....or not?
Post by: Beeonthebay on Tuesday 22 September 15 13:38 BST (UK)
Samuel Edgar Brown's death registration gives his age as 69, so born c1832.

Oops sorry thank you for that, I didn't see it, well that rules him out then as his "supposed son" was born in 1835 I think it was from memory.