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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: undautri on Tuesday 15 September 15 18:01 BST (UK)

Title: stuck ....any help appreciated louisa Kirchner / kirchener / kitchener
Post by: undautri on Tuesday 15 September 15 18:01 BST (UK)
im well and truly stuck  >:(
my gg grandmother was born  louisa Kirchner / kirchener / kitchener / kischener in limerick, ireland
ive got her wedding certificate which shows her fathers name as benjamin
ive found her in all the censuses and the death record but cant find her birth anywhere and cant find her fathers either
ive tried different sites and the Irish parish records and the applotments and the Griffiths list to no avail 
 if i send off for a copy of her death certificate how much detail will be on it in 1901 - will there be birth and parents details or does it depend on the coroner or who reported the death
thanks for any help
kath
Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated
Post by: MargP on Tuesday 15 September 15 18:13 BST (UK)
Hi

What year was she born

Margp
Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated
Post by: avm228 on Tuesday 15 September 15 18:14 BST (UK)
Posting a link to this related thread to which Kath has previously contributed:

www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=252292.0
Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated
Post by: undautri on Tuesday 15 September 15 18:18 BST (UK)
thank you
about 1829-1833
Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated
Post by: MargP on Tuesday 15 September 15 19:03 BST (UK)
Hi

Could this be related in any way

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/search.jsp?namefm=louisa&namel=kirchener&location=&yyfrom=&yyto=&submit=Search
Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated
Post by: undautri on Tuesday 15 September 15 19:50 BST (UK)
thank you marg i think its too old for her but its incredible that you managed to find any louisa kircheners in ireland  i keep getting no results
 her age differs slightly on all my records the most common dob being 1833
 thank you for your trouble
x kath
Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated
Post by: MargP on Tuesday 15 September 15 20:03 BST (UK)
thank you marg i think its too old for her but its incredible that you managed to find any louisa kircheners in ireland  i keep getting no results
 her age differs slightly on all my records the most common dob being 1833
 thank you for your trouble
x kath
It may be a descendant, it was the only Kirchener on the site 
Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated
Post by: MargP on Tuesday 15 September 15 20:06 BST (UK)
It may be worth asking the moderator, to move this to the Irish forum
Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated
Post by: undautri on Tuesday 15 September 15 20:09 BST (UK)
oops didnt know there was an irish forum  ::)
thank you marg
kath
Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 15 September 15 21:03 BST (UK)
She isn't on this list, which could mean the records don't go up to her dob or she lived outside the city but at least it shows people of that name in the area who are likely related.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01g4j/

These are all COI, I assume Louisa was also.
Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated
Post by: healyjfch on Tuesday 15 September 15 22:07 BST (UK)
Louisa may have died before 1901 census.
Have you tried to find grave where her family are buried.
What was her husband's name ?
Louisa may have been born in another part of Ireland or another country.
Civil registration began in 1864 for Ireland.
The unusual surname may have been misspelled in Parish Records.
Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 16 September 15 09:52 BST (UK)
I notice in one of the other threads that Benjamin was a cabinetmaker, Samuel was also a cabinetmaker, there is a report of his death in a pub in Limerick.
I'll see if I can find it again.

Found it
http://www.limerickcity.ie/media/06%2010%2026%20kirchner.pdf
Bottom of the page, starting Yesterday an inquest
Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated
Post by: undautri on Wednesday 16 September 15 11:15 BST (UK)
I notice in one of the other threads that Benjamin was a cabinetmaker, Samuel was also a cabinetmaker, there is a report of his death in a pub in Limerick.
I'll see if I can find it again.

Found it
http://www.limerickcity.ie/media/06%2010%2026%20kirchner.pdf
Bottom of the page, starting Yesterday an inquest
thats fascinating thank you - do you have a date for this paper please?
xkath
Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated louisa Kirchner / kirchener / kitchener
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 16 September 15 13:00 BST (UK)
There is an Alumni Dublineses

Kirchner, Benjamin Simon, Siz, (Mr Oliver Miller), June 5th 1798, aged 17 s of Simon, Coriarius; b Dublin. Sch. 1800. B.A. AEst. 1802.

I'm presuming this relates to him going into apprenticeship.

Tara
Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated louisa Kirchner / kirchener / kitchener
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 16 September 15 13:05 BST (UK)
I notice in one of the other threads that Benjamin was a cabinetmaker, Samuel was also a cabinetmaker, there is a report of his death in a pub in Limerick.
I'll see if I can find it again.

Found it
http://www.limerickcity.ie/media/06%2010%2026%20kirchner.pdf
Bottom of the page, starting Yesterday an inquest
thats fascinating thank you - do you have a date for this paper please?
xkath

I think it's 1826
I found it here
http://www.limerickcity.ie/Library/LocalStudies/ObituariesdeathnoticesetcfromtheLimerickChronicle/1826/
Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated louisa Kirchner / kirchener / kitchener
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 16 September 15 13:17 BST (UK)
1816 there is a Louisa Kirchner and William Peake

Most of the Kirchner's that I can see appear to have been Furriers in Dublin, who appear to have been researched by someone else on your other thread.

I suppose you could infer some connection in that the Christian name Simon appears heavily in both the Furrier Kirchners AND the Cabinet Maker Kirchners.

There were KIRCHOFFER Cabinet Makers and Joiners in 1783 in Dublin.

An Elizabeth Kirchner, Ladies Boarding in Dublin.

a Margaret Kirchener married a Patrick Gahagan 1830 St. Michael's Limerick.

Tara

Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated louisa Kirchner / kirchener / kitchener
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 16 September 15 13:19 BST (UK)
I note that there was a lot on conversation re the origins ~

Newspapers state that Gottlieb Simon Kirchner, the Dublin Furrier, was from PRUSSIA !

Tara
Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated louisa Kirchner / kirchener / kitchener
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 16 September 15 13:26 BST (UK)
But baptised in Limerick
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FR9D-V6B
Do the dates line up

Must be the same family perhaps Louisa will be found in Dublin
Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated louisa Kirchner / kirchener / kitchener
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 16 September 15 13:29 BST (UK)
Hi Sinann

There was an earlier Gottlieb Simon Kirchner.

The newspaper articles that I saw were for the 1790's.

Tara
Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated louisa Kirchner / kirchener / kitchener
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 16 September 15 13:30 BST (UK)
The death of a Simon Kirchner of Thomas Street, Limerick in 1824, Cabinet Maker.

Tara
Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated louisa Kirchner / kirchener / kitchener
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 16 September 15 13:53 BST (UK)
Given that the other Louisa Kirchner married in St. Michael's, Limerick I wonder might there have been a change of religion.

I suggest you start to trawl though their records to see if you can find any other Kirchners there !

http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635025#page/1/mode/1up

Tara
Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated louisa Kirchner / kirchener / kitchener
Post by: undautri on Wednesday 16 September 15 15:46 BST (UK)
thank you all very much for your inputs
the information ive gathered so far -
1848 marriage in swansea to samuel parker - fathers name benjamin kirchner, cabinet maker
1851 census swansea age 20 born limerick
1859 birthcert of daughter louisa parker formerly kirchina
1861 census swansea age 31
1871 census swansea born 1833 limerick
1881 marriage to thomas hill  father benjamin kischener
1881 cwnsus staffordshire age 50
1891 census staffordshire
1901 census  staff age 69
1901 death louisa hill
there is also a strong possibility that she is down as louisa kiknon in 1841 but the date of birth doesnt tally
x thanks again kath
Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated louisa Kirchner / kirchener / kitchener
Post by: MargP on Wednesday 16 September 15 17:45 BST (UK)
Hi

The ages on the 1841 census, are rounded up or down by 5 years

Margp
Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated louisa Kirchner / kirchener / kitchener
Post by: annieoburns on Sunday 20 September 15 20:42 BST (UK)
I have a Marie McKercher marrying in Dublin in 1825 in my tree.  I thought the name suggested Scottish background.
Title: Re: stuck ....any help appreciated louisa Kirchner / kirchener / kitchener
Post by: Phil Goater on Friday 07 January 22 17:20 GMT (UK)
It was mentioned earlier that there is a record of Margaret Kirchener marrying Patrick Gahagan of in 1830 at St. Michael’s Limerick. She is described as a widow and I believe had been Simon’s wife. In the 1841 census Patrick is to be found working as a tailor in Swansea with his wife Margaret and some children. Also in the household is someone transcribed as Louisa Kirknon of an age which fits with the Louisa Kirchner who marries Samuel Parker in 1848 in Swansea. I have checked the name Kirknon and it appears nowhere else! I believe Louisa was the son of Simon Kirchener the cabinet maker and that because he had died her elder brother Benjamin - who had moved to England and who was also a cabinetmaker - stood in for him.