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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: Allan Robson on Friday 11 September 15 14:54 BST (UK)

Title: Missed off 1861 Census for Sunderland
Post by: Allan Robson on Friday 11 September 15 14:54 BST (UK)
Hello All
Is it possible my Ancestors were missed off the 1861 census?
Here they are in 1851 Living in Neasham Sq, Sunderland.
John Robson age 46 Born Corbridge
Eleanor age 41 Born Byker
John Age 11 Born Sunderland
Margaret age 10 born Sunderland
Armstrong age 8 Born Hetton
Thomas age 3 born Sunderland died 1852

In 1862 John Robson died aged 57 he was living in Tweed St Sunderland at the time
which makes me think the family were living in Sunderland in 1861, but no sign on the Census.

Thanks
Allan
Title: Re: Missed off 1861 Census for Sunderland
Post by: suek2075 on Friday 11 September 15 19:14 BST (UK)
familysearch shows them in Morpeth - John Robson b 1804 Corbridge. Wife Elizabeth. This them?

Sue

oops - just noticed wife should be Eleanor - please ignore   :-X
Title: Re: Missed off 1861 Census for Sunderland
Post by: suek2075 on Friday 11 September 15 21:56 BST (UK)
I think I've figured it out by working backwards from 1891!

In 1881 and 1891 Eleanor is living in Bishop Wearmouth with daughter Jane and son Armstrong.

In 1871 she is in Bishop Wearmouth with Armstrong.

In 1861 she is in Bishop Wearmouth with someone called Jane Slack - a relative? Possibly mother?

John meanwhile is at a different address in Bishop Wearmouth with daughters Jane and Margaret. Maybe Eleanor was away from home looking after a sick relative? John is described as an 'Engine man', so pretty sure it's him. Their ages and places of birth seem to change about a little bit though.

Sue
Title: Re: Missed off 1861 Census for Sunderland
Post by: Mean_genie on Friday 11 September 15 21:58 BST (UK)
There are more bits missing from 1861 than any other census, and you can see which bits they are by using an Advanced Search in Discovery, The National Archives catalogue. Use the search terms 'MISSING' or 'WANTING' and limit the search to RG 9. Unfortunately several pages in Sunderland are known to be missing, so if your family were on one of those pages, that could be the explanation :( http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3101811
Title: Re: Missed off 1861 Census for Sunderland
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 11 September 15 22:30 BST (UK)
There doesn't appear to be anything missing for Sunderland?

See: http://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/world-records/full-list-of-united-kingdom-records/census-land-and-surveys/1861-england-wales-and-scotland-census

There are some bits missing for Stamfordham, Castle Ward, Northumberland, and Lanchester, County Durham.
Title: Re: Missed off 1861 Census for Sunderland
Post by: Mean_genie on Friday 11 September 15 23:33 BST (UK)
Pages 1 to 13 are missing from ED 3b, in RG9/3779, Sunderland Sub-district. You'd need to look at the actual census to check whether this is part of Sunderland or Bishopwearmouth parish. There are 855 pieces in 1861 that are known to have missing pages, but the list on FindMyPast only shows about 100 of them. It appears to be an old list that has never been updated.
Title: Re: Missed off 1861 Census for Sunderland
Post by: stanmapstone on Saturday 12 September 15 08:53 BST (UK)
This post refers to the missing parts of the Sunderland 1861 Census http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/eng-dur-sunderland/2009-04/1240791828

Stan
Title: Re: Missed off 1861 Census for Sunderland
Post by: JenB on Saturday 12 September 15 16:03 BST (UK)
Hi Allan  :)

Just posting your previous searches for this family  :)

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=219548.msg1146880#msg1146880
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=378441.msg2514939#msg2514939
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=459644.msg3205262#msg3205262
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=218698.msg1141230#msg1141230
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=486091.msg3442866#msg3442866
Title: Re: Missed off 1861 Census for Sunderland
Post by: JenB on Saturday 12 September 15 16:05 BST (UK)
In 1861 she is in Bishop Wearmouth with someone called Jane Slack - a relative? Possibly mother?

Allan had already checked this one out and feels it is a different person  :)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=378441.msg2515596#msg2515596
Title: Re: Missed off 1861 Census for Sunderland
Post by: suek2075 on Saturday 12 September 15 16:10 BST (UK)

Allan had already checked this one out and feels it is a different person  :)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=378441.msg2515596#msg2515596


Ok - never saw the previous threads  :) Can't find anyone in Sunderland who fits either. Given that there is a John with the correct daughters and occupation but without an Eleanor, seemed perfectly feasible that she would be with someone else. I've occasionally found 'my' wives off visiting with family  ;D
Title: Re: Missed off 1861 Census for Sunderland
Post by: Allan Robson on Sunday 13 September 15 10:53 BST (UK)
Thanks to all who replied, the Eleanor with Jane Slack is no link I have checked that out, also Jane and Margaret are working as maids I have checked that out and its right, there son John was living at 5 South Nicholson St when he married in 1860, this could have been the family home, also to complicate matters South Nicholson St, Had its named changed to Tweed St before the 1861 Census and as John Snr died at 75 Tweed St in Mar 1862, it seems to me the family must have in that area in 1861

Regards
Allan
Title: Re: Missed off 1861 Census for Sunderland
Post by: JenB on Sunday 13 September 15 17:58 BST (UK)
Allan, I've had another look, but I really can't find John & Eleanor at all.

I see from a google search that you've also tried this enquiry on other family history message boards many times and no-one has come up with an answer.

I really think we have to conclude that, for reasons unknown to us, they aren't on the 1861 census.

Sorry  :(

Are John & Eleanor the parents of the elusive John whose birth registration/baptism you've been searching for for many years?
Title: Re: Missed off 1861 Census for Sunderland
Post by: Allan Robson on Sunday 13 September 15 18:28 BST (UK)
Hi Jen
Thanks for your input, I assume John and Eleanor are parents of my cant find John's Baptism or Birth Reg but as I don't the proof I can never been 100 per cent sure.
Title: Re: Missed off 1861 Census for Sunderland
Post by: JenB on Sunday 13 September 15 18:32 BST (UK)
I assume John and Eleanor are parents of my cant find John's Baptism or Birth Reg but as I don't the proof I can never been 100 per cent sure.

What a troublesome family  :(
Title: Re: Missed off 1861 Census for Sunderland
Post by: Allan Robson on Sunday 13 September 15 21:16 BST (UK)
Hi Jen
 I have all the Baptisms or Birth Reg for John's siblings but nothing for him only census info.
Title: Re: Missed off 1861 Census for Sunderland
Post by: JenB on Monday 14 September 15 08:38 BST (UK)
I assume John and Eleanor are parents of my cant find John's Baptism or Birth Reg but as I don't the proof I can never been 100 per cent sure.

Sorry, I should of course have said are they the presumed parents of John - for whom you've searched far and wide for many years.
Title: Re: Missed off 1861 Census for Sunderland
Post by: Allan Robson on Monday 14 September 15 09:03 BST (UK)
Hi Jen, the best hint came when John Jnr got married in 1860, he said his father John Snr was a Joiner, which is what was on the Baptism and Birth Regs of his siblings, John Snr was a many of many talents, he is down on Census as an Engine Wright, Joiner, Waggonwright, Cartwright all trade to do with wood.