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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Barnes612 on Thursday 10 September 15 19:38 BST (UK)

Title: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: Barnes612 on Thursday 10 September 15 19:38 BST (UK)
Although I know who Gareth Malone is, I've never watched any of his programmes, so I'm hoping that my feeling that tonight's show is going to be a bit light is completely wrong and that it'll be up there with Jane Seymour's and Derek Jacobi's in terms of content and engagement!

This is what it says about it on the WDYTYA website:
Growing up, says choirmaster Gareth Malone, his parents were “always singing” around the house. Amateur dramatics enthusiasts, they passed their enthusiasm for music and performance to their son. “In my DNA, there’s a little switch for singing and it’s on,” Gareth jokes. Gareth is therefore particularly keen to find out about two forebears who, family stories suggest, also worked in showbiz...

I admit to liking the programmes where ancestors aren't doing the same things as the subject! :D
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: StanleysChesterton on Thursday 10 September 15 19:53 BST (UK)
I read the "spoilers" in the press about 2-3 weeks ago.

Spoiler alert below

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It turned out that his great-great-grandfather was super famous in the old music halls .... and so one might question how come he didn't already know all this.  He even has his own wikipedia page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Payne
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Barnes612 on Thursday 10 September 15 19:58 BST (UK)
Not reading them!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 10 September 15 21:22 BST (UK)
Bored to tears with this  :(

I hate soaps but I think I would rather watch Corrie than this episode.

Programme is a farce tonight.............he knows more than we are led to believe  ???

Annie
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: StanleysChesterton on Thursday 10 September 15 22:00 BST (UK)
I chose not to watch it and phoned somebody for a chat instead.
Just caught the last 1 minute.... glad I didn't waste a full 60 minutes of my life if it was full of singing :)
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: nanny jan on Thursday 10 September 15 22:04 BST (UK)

Not full of singing but some new archives featured......Gareth found a sound recording of his ancestor Edmund Payne singing........what a find. :)
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: cms on Thursday 10 September 15 22:05 BST (UK)
Too much singing, yes, but also a fascinating story of the dyer who left Leeds to become a concert singer, a publican, a musical hall owner, then the builder of a grand Dublin theatre. The film and sound recording also made a lovely story.
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: KGarrad on Thursday 10 September 15 22:06 BST (UK)
Well I enjoyed it!
So much better than last week's American episode.

Some decent genealogical research; and I didn't think the family knew all that much?
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: nanny jan on Thursday 10 September 15 22:12 BST (UK)
Well I enjoyed it!
So much better than last week's American episode.

Some decent genealogical research; and I didn't think the family knew all that much?


Agree.  :)
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 10 September 15 22:16 BST (UK)
Admittedly the 2nd half was more interesting  ;)

I did keep watching, waiting for something worthwhile, which did come, thankfully.

I don't think he knew so much of the 2nd half but I think he did with the 1st.

He seemed more enthusiastic with the 2nd part  ???

Annie
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Barnes612 on Thursday 10 September 15 22:22 BST (UK)
It was full of singing!

The actual informative parts about the two men were interesting but again there was so much filler, not of Gareth driving down long highways a la Jerry Hall, but of numerous singsongs - with his grandfather, down the pub with a researcher, then that last bit at the end.

I've got theatre folk in my paternal side of the family, so it was interesting from that aspect. At some point I want to look further into that side of my family and hopefully find some old programmes with my ancestors names on them. Apparently one of my gt gt grandmother's was taken on stage as a baby during a production of East Lynn. It's whetted my appetite. It was wonderful hearing Edmund Payne singing, I'd be so thrilled to find out there was a recording of an ancestor somewhere.

One thing I didn't like was when he saw Dan on the census and found out he was a dyer from Leeds. He seemed far too disappointed that he might have working class antecedents. Thankfully, Dan saved the day by being ambitious and 'making something of himself'...

I thought when he was told Dan bought a pub that he was going to be told it was the one they were sitting in! And I loved the bit where he was trying to decipher the 'sings at concerts' entry on the census.

The whole family seemed to know a lot about Edmund Payne and that section felt like it was more of a nice thing the programme makers did for his grandfather than actually finding anything out. They knew there was footage, they knew there was audio, it was a case of tracking down what was already known.  And there was nothing about either of the men's families, what did the wives and children or parents think about all of it? When Dan went to Dublin what did his wife do? Did either of the wives play a part in their respective enterprises? So much left out of the bigger picture that could have been included if they chopped some of the singsongs!
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Rena on Thursday 10 September 15 23:03 BST (UK)
I smiled the whole way through and enjoyed the thrill of the little nuggets of gold he found.
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Blue70 on Thursday 10 September 15 23:30 BST (UK)
Best episode of the series so far. I would have liked them to look into Dan's parents I think they were probably Irish. Dan was baptised in an RC church in Leeds in 1823. His parents were called Patrick and Mary. He may have learned Irish songs from his parents and knew about Liverpool from his parents. There's a Liverpool shanty called Whip Jamboree sung by The Spinners that includes the lyrics, "And now my lads we’re all in dock, We’ll be off to Dan Lowry’s on the spot".

Slater's Directory 1869

Malakoff Dan Lowry 20 and 22 Cleveland square

Green's Directory 1870

Lawry D publican 22 Cleveland square
Lowrey Daniel jun licensed victualler 71 Paradise Street   


Blue
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: dowdstree on Friday 11 September 15 00:00 BST (UK)
I found it a "lot of the same" tonight but did enjoy the old music hall recordings and he seems to have a great affection for his 94 year old granddad. :)

Where were the women in his family :( probably at home looking after the kids as usual. ::)

Not overly impressed with this series at all >:(

Dorrie

Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: jan57 on Friday 11 September 15 00:11 BST (UK)
 Think Daniel   married  twice , 1851   census  showed  wife  Hannah ( as  seen on TV )  1861   has  him with  wife Charlotte in Liverpool


Marriages Mar 1857

Lowrey  Daniel    Liverpool  8b 82   
 
Summerfield  Charlotte     Liverpool  8b 82

Deaths Dec 1856   
Lowery  Hannah     Liverpool  8b 124



Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: loobylooayr on Friday 11 September 15 00:28 BST (UK)
I liked - finding the silent footage and also the audio of GreatGreat grandpa Powell. Gareth's old grandpa was thrilled.
          - the story of Dan Lowry, singer, public house owner and Dublin theatre impresario

I disliked - Gareth's rather snooty reaction when he discovered that Dan when he married was...a dyer  :o and his father had been a weaver. He obviously wanted to have descended rom the middle classes   ;)
              - the emphasis on all the singing.

Looby xx


Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: rebeccaclaire86 on Friday 11 September 15 06:29 BST (UK)
I agree there was too much singing!! I still need to watch the second half (dozed off halfway through) but I liked that his granddad got to see the recording, it clearly meant a lot to him.
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Rhododendron on Friday 11 September 15 07:30 BST (UK)
There was a time I couldn't wait for the next episode of WDYTYA but I am beginning to lose interest in it. Derek Jacobi was well worth watching but I've been bored by the last two (Jerry Hall & Gareth Malone). Perhaps it's just me. Or maybe the Programme has now run its course.
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: kooky on Friday 11 September 15 07:52 BST (UK)
This was a happy episode, no tears, no graves!
Agree too much singing, but he did do some of his own investigating.
Some real genealogy, but lots of family info left out.
Kooky
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: sallyyorks on Friday 11 September 15 08:12 BST (UK)
....I would have liked them to look into Dan's parents I think they were probably Irish. Dan was baptised in an RC church in Leeds in 1823. His parents were called Patrick and Mary....


There was plenty of  English Catholics though, especially in areas like Yorkshire, Lancashire and Staffordshire .
I have 3 completely seperate branches of English Catholics in my tree at this time period. My grt grandmother was born in Leeds and her family were Catholic ag labs from around the Knaresborough / York area originally . On another branch  my grandmother was Catholic, from her fathers family , who were all from Lancashire.

I think Lowry is a name quite common to Lancashire /Yorkshire
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: jennifer c on Friday 11 September 15 08:49 BST (UK)
Ok, it was a bit 'light', but at least it made be smile.

It is not all about dates, names and places, how many of us would love to have this type of insight into our relatives lives.
Jennifer
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Vengeur on Friday 11 September 15 08:53 BST (UK)
What the prog. didn't address (and I don't think I'm going mad here!) is that Gareth's grandfather was Edmund WHITE (the son of a male PAYNE) [Gareth's mother was born Sian WHITE].

So what happened?
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: california dreamin on Friday 11 September 15 08:55 BST (UK)
Yes!! Was just signing on to say the same thing!   ???

Did I miss something....
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Blue70 on Friday 11 September 15 09:25 BST (UK)
....I would have liked them to look into Dan's parents I think they were probably Irish. Dan was baptised in an RC church in Leeds in 1823. His parents were called Patrick and Mary....


There was plenty of  English Catholics though, especially in areas like Yorkshire, Lancashire and Staffordshire .
I have 3 completely seperate branches of English Catholics in my tree at this time period. My grt grandmother was born in Leeds and her family were Catholic ag labs from around the Knaresborough / York area originally . On another branch  my grandmother was Catholic, from her fathers family , who were all from Lancashire.

I think Lowry is a name quite common to Lancashire /Yorkshire

I couldn't find a local marriage for the parents so I thought they weren't locals and could have been Irish migrants. Can anyone find the marriage of Patrick Lawry/Lowry/Lowrey to Mary some time before 1823? I know the surname appears in Ireland and there are Irish people of this surname living in England on various census records. Being called Patrick while living in England, being RC and having a son who sings Irish songs makes me think Dan had Irish ancestry.


Blue
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Vengeur on Friday 11 September 15 09:47 BST (UK)
Yes!! Was just signing on to say the same thing!   ???

Did I miss something....

Glad to say then I'm not going mad! It wasn't mentioned at all in the programme but it surely deserved some comment!
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Mowsehowse on Friday 11 September 15 10:09 BST (UK)
Yes!! Was just signing on to say the same thing!   ???  Did I miss something.... 

Glad to say then I'm not going mad! It wasn't mentioned at all in the programme but it surely deserved some comment! 

Not necessarily perhaps...... after all Gareth was wanting to find out about further back and that is what he did.

Although it seems the family did know quite a lot, I suspect this programme was inserted to balance the series budget.  A much cheaper episode, (though for me, more interesting,) than Ms Hall touring the USA.
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Mowsehowse on Friday 11 September 15 10:10 BST (UK)
p.s. In life there can NEVER be too much singing, surely??  :P
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Vengeur on Friday 11 September 15 10:34 BST (UK)
Yes!! Was just signing on to say the same thing!   ???  Did I miss something.... 

Glad to say then I'm not going mad! It wasn't mentioned at all in the programme but it surely deserved some comment! 

Not necessarily perhaps...... after all Gareth was wanting to find out about further back and that is what he did.

Fair enough, but surely the whole point regarding his claimed ancestors depends on his WHITE grandfather actually being the son of a male PAYNE and a mother with a different surname (can't remember what it was now). So for that reason alone I think we needed an explanation
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 11 September 15 10:45 BST (UK)
Maybe Gareth Malone didn't want to wash his dirty linen in public?

Particularly as family members are still living?
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: california dreamin on Friday 11 September 15 12:07 BST (UK)
I don't think so - the family seemed pretty proud of Edmund and had photos of him all over the house.  So he wasn't hidden away.  Also, Gareth made the point that his middle name was Edmund  and his Grandfather and various other family members   :D

I also meant to add I really liked this episode.  It was joyful. I loved the song that was found about the whistling gate.  Agreed - a bit too much filler when a bit more genealogical info could have been produced. I also really enjoyed Gareth sharing his information with his family.  This used to be done with some of the earlier programmes.  Let's be fair we all love to share our discoveries with our own family.  And finally I too smiled ear to ear during this programme .  We should all have a Pappa.   ;D
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: sallyyorks on Friday 11 September 15 12:07 BST (UK)
It was full of singing!

The actual informative parts about the two men were interesting but again there was so much filler, not of Gareth driving down long highways a la Jerry Hall, but of numerous singsongs - with his grandfather, down the pub with a researcher, then that last bit at the end.

I've got theatre folk in my paternal side of the family, so it was interesting from that aspect. At some point I want to look further into that side of my family and hopefully find some old programmes with my ancestors names on them. Apparently one of my gt gt grandmother's was taken on stage as a baby during a production of East Lynn. It's whetted my appetite. It was wonderful hearing Edmund Payne singing, I'd be so thrilled to find out there was a recording of an ancestor somewhere.

One thing I didn't like was when he saw Dan on the census and found out he was a dyer from Leeds. He seemed far too disappointed that he might have working class antecedents.....To much left out of the bigger picture that could have been included if they chopped some of the singsongs!

I agree.
I found the sing song in the pub a bit cheesy and contrived and the programme , yet again , missed an oppurtunity to explore England's industrial heritage , via the mills (and mines) .
Richard Oastler the campaigner against child labour was from Leeds and the city also played an active role in the 1842 general strike.  Another missed chance was that they failed to explain English catholism and  just how many people in England were still catholic , especially in the north.

I did like the part where he played the old film footage to his grandad though, I thought that was sweet and touching. He did seem very enthusiastic about the  research side too and trying to decipher the occupation showed how difficult that can be at times
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: jaywit on Friday 11 September 15 12:19 BST (UK)
Mmmm

From the Edmund Payne memorial website.

http://www.edmundpayne.co.uk/index.asp?pageid=367748
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Mowsehowse on Friday 11 September 15 12:22 BST (UK)
[quote from Barnes 612]
One thing I didn't like was when he saw Dan on the census and found out he was a dyer from Leeds. He seemed far too disappointed that he might have working class antecedents.....

I did not get that impression at all. 

What I felt was Gareth wanted everyone to have been involved in his "singing gene", rather than doing jobs where there was no element of the entertaintment business. 
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Mowsehowse on Friday 11 September 15 12:28 BST (UK)
Mmmm .................. From the Edmund Payne memorial website.

http://www.edmundpayne.co.uk/index.asp?pageid=367748 

It seems this site has been up and running since January 2012.   :o
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: sarahsean on Friday 11 September 15 12:58 BST (UK)
I personally did not enjoy this episode. Too much singing for me! I disliked the way he was disappointed when ancestors were not all singing and dancing. I know that most people want their ancestors to be like them however i disliked the way he looked down on the ordinary working family members.

I have found the series to be a little hit and miss for me this time. I enjoyed the Jane Seymour episode where she tracked her Polish ancestors although it was desperately sad. I enjoyed Derrick Jacobi also.

All in all it is an entertaining show firstly rather than a family history show and that has to be taken into consideration.

I got to do a little family history research myself this week in a way as my son had history homework and had to look up the 1911 Irish census. I don`t think he was that interested  and I already had the information but it is nice to see the resources being used and you never know!

Sarah
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Rena on Friday 11 September 15 13:15 BST (UK)
I'm not too critical of any of these programmes.  Newbies can't be expected to be skilled at researching their family history and there's umpteen illustrations on rootschat of beginners fumbling about not knowing what steps to take until they're pointed in the right direction. 

This specific programme concentrated on where to look if one has an entertainer in the family and what you can expect to find IF LUCKY.   I eventually discovered my "musician" was a busker thus I wasn't lucky  :-\

I think I probably enjoyed the sing song in the Pub because it brought back memories of when practically every pub in England had a piano where the landlord either paid a pianist or a local would rattle out a few songs and the rest of us would sing our hearts out.
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Blue70 on Friday 11 September 15 13:21 BST (UK)
So far I've found the following for the Lowrys in Leeds it still looks like the parents probably came over from Ireland some time before 1823:-

- 1823 RC baptism of Dan to Patrick and Mary
- 1825 RC baptism of Thomas to Patrick and Mary
- 1836 CE burial of James 1 year old son of Patrick and Mary of Wheeler Street
- 1839 CE burial of Patrick (married man) of Wheeler Street aged 46
- 1840 CE marriage of Dan of Wheeler Street son of Patrick (weaver)
- 1841 Census shows Dan's family at Zion Street 


Blue
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Barnes612 on Friday 11 September 15 13:45 BST (UK)
On the family tree that Gareth's mum shows him, you can see that Dorothy Harris remarries and her second husband is called William White. I thought at first that there was a White coming down from the Lowrey side, but it's not, it's a second marriage for Dorothy.

So perhaps Harry Payne died when Gareth's grandfather was young and that's why he took on the name of Dorothy's second husband.
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: avm228 on Friday 11 September 15 14:03 BST (UK)
What the prog. didn't address (and I don't think I'm going mad here!) is that Gareth's grandfather was Edmund WHITE (the son of a male PAYNE) [Gareth's mother was born Sian WHITE].

So what happened?

A FreeBMD check based on the info in the family tree extract shown in the programme (6 min 40 secs in) suggests he was born Payne but married as White - so perhaps acquired a stepfather or had other reason to change name.  Possibly a little sensitive as he is still living.
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Friday 11 September 15 16:42 BST (UK)
I found it rather interesting as an example of how "Family legend" so often has a little truth, but rather distorted.
As others have said, the plethora of old family photos all over the Hallway, and the evident "Am-Dram" interests of the parents, did suggest a lot was already known.
So often too the less attractive bits of the tale get mislaid along the way, and it would seem that the working class origins were neatly packed away there ... a Theatre Proprietor sounds so much more impressive in one's background than ... yet another weaver or dyer, doesn't it?
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Blue70 on Friday 11 September 15 18:19 BST (UK)
According to this source the traditional story was Dan Lowry was born in Roscrea, County Tipperary and his family moved to England so Dan may have wanted his English birth to be played down and perhaps have his ancestral origins replace his English birth and upbringing to win over his Irish customers:-

http://www.findlaters.com/chapter7.html


Blue
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Finley 1 on Friday 11 September 15 19:54 BST (UK)
I watched and enjoyed, didn't mind the singing,  loved the way Pappa was involved and how he was overjoyed to see his Grandfather.

I felt Gareth enjoyed his discoveries, and didn't think he in anyway meant to appear - snobbish - regarding the dyer,   I felt it was just that he had got himself so hopeful that there was a full line of musicians of one kind or another, that he was ... uhm ... deflated.

What a great prog to have caused so many DIVERSE comments on here.. that shows it was well worth watching.... OR maybe I mean producing.  Wouldn't be any good if we all felt exactly the same.................   ;)

xin   ;D ;D ;D ;D
ps
I don't feel the show has run its course, it just needs a bit of a bend in the road  to REFRESH it.. 
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Blue70 on Friday 11 September 15 20:02 BST (UK)
According to 'Annals of the Liverpool Stage' by RJ Broadbent (1908):-

“The Malakoff Music Hall was brought into existence during the fifties, by the late Dan Lowrey. It was situated in Cleveland Square and was a popular resort for youthful and ancient mariners. In addition to variety performances, plays and pantomimes were also submitted. In one of Mr Lowrey’s advertisements (1864), he amusingly stated ‘there is a private box for captains and gentlemen’. Outside the Malakoff there is a statue of Mr Lowrey in one of his favourite Irish characters... 

The Casino, 23 Bevington Hill, was originally intended for a market. In the early sixties it was called the Princess’s Theatre. Afterwards it was opened by Dan Lowrey, who christened it the Nightingale Palace of Amusement and Recreation. Prices of admission (which included refreshments), were threepence, fourpence, and sixpence. The Nightingale was run on similar lines to the Malakoff.” 


Blue
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: shawsboy on Friday 11 September 15 20:18 BST (UK)
I found this episode completely boring and thought Gareth was a bit snobbish. As for the sing song in the pub - no wonder it was almost empty !
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Blue70 on Friday 11 September 15 21:43 BST (UK)
Dan's father Patrick was probably a Roscrea weaver and the decline in the local industry likely made him decide to move to Leeds:-

"The population of Roscrea appears to have reached its height in the 1830s. In 1885 a wool merchant from the neighbouring town of Birr reported to the House of Commons Select Committee on Industries (Ireland) that in the early decades of the 19th century 1,000 men were employed in Roscrea as weavers and wool combers, but that by the early 1880s this number had dropped to just 2."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscrea


Blue
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Rosinish on Friday 11 September 15 22:02 BST (UK)
I hope Gareth doesn't spend his weekend "googling" his ancestors as he will be directed to RC but on the bright side he will find out even more about his ancestry :-)

Annie
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Jomot on Friday 11 September 15 22:10 BST (UK)
I watched and enjoyed, didn't mind the singing,  loved the way Pappa was involved and how he was overjoyed to see his Grandfather.
I hated the constant singing & padding when I still had questions I wanted answering, but completely agree that Pappa's joy was a delight to see, so for me it was worth watching just for that  :) 
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: ankerdine on Friday 11 September 15 22:53 BST (UK)
I smiled the whole way through and enjoyed the thrill of the little nuggets of gold he found.

That's exactly how I felt. However, right at the beginning I was determined to be bored but Gareth is such an inspirational person that feeling soon left me. I loved the sing-song in the pub - so typical of Irish folk songs.

My OH has Malone ancestors but I've never researched them in depth. Perhaps I will now. :)

Judy
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: avm228 on Friday 11 September 15 22:56 BST (UK)
If Gareth does google and find this thread I want him to know he can do no wrong in my eyes, having made those TV programmes which inspired me to rediscover choral singing.  It's changed my life (much for the better) :)

Getting back to the programme - there were lovely moments, but for me it wasn't the most gripping I've seen. I may even have multitasked.  Sorry Gareth.
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: sallyyorks on Saturday 12 September 15 01:07 BST (UK)
Dan's father Patrick was probably a Roscrea weaver and the decline in the local industry likely made him decide to move to Leeds:-

"The population of Roscrea appears to have reached its height in the 1830s. In 1885 a wool merchant from the neighbouring town of Birr reported to the House of Commons Select Committee on Industries (Ireland) that in the early decades of the 19th century 1,000 men were employed in Roscrea as weavers and wool combers, but that by the early 1880s this number had dropped to just 2."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscrea


Blue


I can't quote all your posts, there are far too many of them. That you think the Lowry's were Irish is interesting but it is speculation and you have not provided any documentary proof.

Daniel was born in Yorkshire. He is on the 1841 census in Leeds as being "born in county".

His being a catholic and having a father called Patrick is not proof that he, or his father, was from Ireland. There are "Patricks" and "Lowrys" going back in Yorkshire parish registers to at least the 17th century. There are Lowrys in Leeds parish church register at least as early as the mid 18th century . Yorkshire, like Lancashire,  also had high numbers of native English catholics.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recusancy

The link you provided in a previous post making the claim that "Dan"  was born in Roscrea gives no citations or any evidence whatsoever to back up its claim

"Wool combers" were found all over Yorkshire. If you are going to speculate that he moved for work, then he is more likely to be from Bradford than anywhere else in the world.  Bradford, (like many other towns and cities in the West Riding), was built on industrial mills and on wool combing in particular. 
This quote below about Bradford is just the  number of "wool combers"alone. Then on top of that, there would have been all the spinners, weavers, dyers and so on
"...In Bradford, I am told on good authority, there are about 15,000 woolcombers...." Bradford Sanitation Report 1837
Some info on wool combers in Yorkshire here http://bancroftsfromyorkshire.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/woolcombing-in-yorkshire-dirty-business.html?m=1

Perhaps he "migrated" to Leeds from any number of other West Riding industrial mill towns/cities or from the Yorkshire countryside or even from Lancashire or wherever.  It was the industrial revolution after all ! , millions of English people "migrated" into the towns and cities. You need to start from where he was born, (Yorkshire) and work outwards.

The programme itself , if I remember correctly , even stated that the family were "not Irish" but that "Dan" advertised himself as an "Irish singer" because he was performing songs to Irish migrants in Liverpool pubs. If the programme had found any Irish ancestry for the Lowrys then I am sure they would have mentioned it.

Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Blue70 on Saturday 12 September 15 08:35 BST (UK)
If Dan's parents were English where is their marriage? There is no proof of any English roots. He considered himself Irish and his bio said he was born in a specific Irish place with a history of weaving, the occupation of his father. He was born in Leeds but it looks like his parents came over from Ireland.


Blue
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: sallyyorks on Saturday 12 September 15 10:25 BST (UK)
If Dan's parents were English where is their marriage? There is no proof of any English roots. He considered himself Irish and his bio said he was born in a specific Irish place with a history of weaving, the occupation of his father. He was born in Leeds but it looks like his parents came over from Ireland.


Blue

The records may not be online yet, the records might have been damaged or lost, they might have married in some obscure little non conformist chapel lost in time, they might not have married at all. There are a number of reasons . I looked for a marriage for my grt x 4  grandparents for six years and I only found it a few weeks ago. The parish register is so tiny that I found it by accident when I looked at the next page after finding another record.

The programme made a point of explaining why a man from Leeds sang Irish songs in Liverpool .

The "bio" you posted has no references/citations

The West Riding famously had a woollen industry for many centuries but with mechanisation it became very different to the old cottage type industry and by the 1820s it was the epicentre of a huge  woollen  industry that had made hand loom weaving irrelevant. Armley mills (Leeds) for example became the largest woollen mill in the world. Just one of these water/steam (coal) powered mills might employ thousands of men, women and children.  These new  machines, or "rattling devils" (as child labour reformers aptly described them) required very little skill to operate. The mill workers were industrial labourers, and not old fashioned type hand loom weavers.
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Blue70 on Saturday 12 September 15 10:35 BST (UK)
If Dan's parents were English where is their marriage? There is no proof of any English roots. He considered himself Irish and his bio said he was born in a specific Irish place with a history of weaving, the occupation of his father. He was born in Leeds but it looks like his parents came over from Ireland.


Blue


The records may not be online yet, the records might have been damaged or lost, they mjght have married in some obscure little non conformist chapel lost in time, they might not have married at all. There are a number of reasons . I looked for a marriage for my grt x 4  grandparents for six years and I only found it a few weeks ago. The parish register is so tiny that I found it by accident when I looked at the next page after finding another record.

The programme made a point of explaining why a man from Leeds sang Irish songs in Liverpool .

The "bio" you posted has no references/citations

The West Riding famously had a woollen industry for many centuries but with mechanisation it became very different to the old cottage type industry and by the 1820s it was the epicentre of a huge  woollen  industry that had made hand loom weaving irrelevant. Armley mills (Leeds) for example became the largest woollen mill in the world. Just one of these water/steam powered mills might employ thousands of men, women and children.  These new  machines or "rattling devils" (as Oastler called them) required very little skill to operate. The mill workers were industrial labourers, and not old fashioned type hand loom weavers.

I'm afraid the weight of evidence at the moment is that he had Irish roots. A quick look at the Irish Tithe records show Lowreys in Roscrea, they are on Griffith's and on other later records.


Blue
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: sallyyorks on Saturday 12 September 15 11:11 BST (UK)



I'm afraid the weight of evidence at the moment is that he had Irish roots. A quick look at the Irish Tithe records show Lowreys in Roscrea, they are on Griffith's and on other later records.


Blue

But there is no evidence and the name Lowry is also a north of England surname . It is found in old records in Leeds too.
The evidence so far is that Dan was born in Yorkshire and that at his marriage (Leeds parish church) his father is named as a weaver called Patrick. Industrial mill  weaving was the main local industry of Leeds and had been since the late 1700s . Before that it had been a local cottage industry
Just the demographics alone of a large industrial mill city like Leeds with its vast majority  of "born in county " weavers, spinners and dyers  makes it likely that he was more local than not. Dan was born in the 1820s in Yorkshire . Immigration from Ireland didn't really start to happen in Leeds  in large numbers until the late 1840s/50s and even then, they only made up a relatively small per cent of the total  industrial workforce . Most of them would have migrated from the surrounding  local countryside, during the early years of industrialisation (late 1700s to early 1800s)
I could understand your theory  that his dad was Irish more if Dan had been born in Leeds or Bradford (or wherever)  in the 1850s or 1860s, but he was born a generation earlier in the 1820s.
I agree that "Patrick" is more of an Irish name but I think you have to take into account that there was also a number of   native English Catholics in the north of England too.
Good luck with your search and theory anyway. You might be right, who knows
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Blue70 on Saturday 12 September 15 11:22 BST (UK)
Irish migration is often associated with a later period but if you look at those early Leeds RC records there's a lot of Irish names in there. Dan like Shane MacGowan of The Pogues was singing songs of his ancestral home, Ireland. 


Blue
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: sallyyorks on Saturday 12 September 15 11:42 BST (UK)
Irish migration is often associated with a later period but if you look at those early Leeds RC records there's a lot of Irish names in there. Dan like Shane MacGowan of The Pogues was singing songs of his ancestral home, Ireland. 


Blue

There are also many more English surnames in catholic records at that time period.
As I said before, I have English Catholics in my family from the north of England . They all have local surnames, like Lowry, too.
He opened a pub/theatre  in Liverpool , he saw an opportunity to provide a local need for the Irish community there . His fondness for Irish songs might have simply been that he liked them and Irish songs were not that much different to English folk songs anyway. A lot of the songs at that time probably had local variations and adaptable lyrics.  It was popular sheet music, churned out on a large scale.
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Finley 1 on Saturday 12 September 15 12:07 BST (UK)
IF your IRISH come into MY PARLOUR, there's a welcome here for you, especially if your name is Gareth Malone.....

He is a lovely chap and his roots .. whatever ... they are are great.  Watching him work, proves he is caring - good and kind, but also firm. 

:)  I like the chap ( a little  ;D ;D ;D ;D)


xin
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: sallyyorks on Saturday 12 September 15 14:07 BST (UK)

- 1841 Census shows Dan's family at Zion Street 


Blue

There are some old photos online of Zion Street (Peacock Yard?) where the Lowrys were living in 1841. They are on the Leodis website. Its a great site for anyone interested in Leeds history and it has 60,000 + photos. There are some photos of a "Peacock Yard" (Elland Road area) too, but I don't think its the same yard.

On the census for the Lowrys, it was the Zion St near East St and Ellerby road

Leodis website
http://www.leodis.net/default.aspx

http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?resourceIdentifier=20091124_169840
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: jaywit on Saturday 12 September 15 14:22 BST (UK)
This suggests there was Irish immigration to Leeds from 1815 onwards.

http://www.untoldstories.co.uk/ie_intro.do

So possible.
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: ChrissieL on Saturday 12 September 15 14:40 BST (UK)
I enjoyed this programme.  I like Gareth Malone and it was nice to see him doing some of his own research, even if it was only a little bit.  I think we sometimes forget that these programmes are made for a wide audience and need to have some entertainment value.  It was lovely to see Pappa's face when he was watching the film of his grandfather, and I loved all the singing!

I have a theatrical performer in my family tree, wee Georgie Wood, who was baptised George Wood Bamlett and the programme has inspired me at least to find out more about life on the stage at the beginning of the 20th century

Chris
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: jaywit on Saturday 12 September 15 15:13 BST (UK)
From Wiki about the history of Roscrea.

The population of Roscrea appears to have reached its height in the 1830s (see below). In 1885 a wool merchant from the neighbouring town of Birr reported to the House of Commons Select Committee on Industries (Ireland) that in the early decades of the 19th century 1,000 men were employed in Roscrea as weavers and wool combers, but that by the early 1880s this number had dropped to just 2.[19]
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Blue70 on Saturday 12 September 15 15:41 BST (UK)
I have some Hunslet (Leeds area) roots my Atkinson line comes from around there. They moved to Lancashire.


Blue
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: jillruss on Sunday 13 September 15 18:19 BST (UK)
I found this episode completely boring and thought Gareth was a bit snobbish. As for the sing song in the pub - no wonder it was almost empty !

Couldn't agree more! Didn't know who he was before this and thought he came over as an over confident, snobbish bore - and I was convinced he already knew most of it anyway.

I also agree that this series is perhaps one too many, although I enjoyed the Derek Jacobi one very much.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the US one is now much better than 'ours', even when I have no idea who the subject is!!  ???
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: ankerdine on Sunday 13 September 15 19:54 BST (UK)
I've commented before on this thread on my thoughts about this particular programme.

However, Gareth Malone personally has inspired so many people to sing he couldn't possibly be a "snobbish bore". I wish he'd been around when I was 10 years old. Our headmaster was selecting children to sing in a Birmingham concert. He walked along the line of children and stopped in front of me and said "definitely not"! Since that day I have never sung anywhere; at church weddings and funerals; just mouthing the words. I'd love to sing now (70 years) but never been encouraged to do it.

Judy
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Finley 1 on Sunday 13 September 15 20:31 BST (UK)
Maybe Gareths next choir, should be for the likes of us then Ankerdine, cos even though I was in the Choir for a while at School.... I am sure I could have been a good singer - given the chance.

I love to blast the house away when I am in on my own - I keep the windows closed though    ??? ;D ;D

xin
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Clarkey500 on Sunday 13 September 15 22:16 BST (UK)
I really liked this episode because he did most of the research, unlike most of the others so far from this series!

I hope there's more like this! :)
Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: fraser1 on Monday 14 September 15 14:17 BST (UK)
A slight aside to comments about the programme.   I would like to know which site he was looking at.  We saw views of the actual documents but when I have been searching for Information in England I have to send for a copy.  I am doing something wrong?

Any tips appreciated.

Sandra
Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: Finley 1 on Monday 14 September 15 14:20 BST (UK)
YES  I held my mouth open, when I saw the actual marriage cert on the page... ARRRGGHH  I thought that doesn't happen..

But then I thought again and realised it does on Scots people OR if you are browsing a public Tree on Ancestry...

So it must have been the latter, cos he wasn't on Scots people...

IF HOWEVER  There is a NEW site that shows docs in full detail, I will join tomorrow... tell me where :) :) :)

xin
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Mowsehowse on Monday 14 September 15 14:22 BST (UK)
[quote author=jillruss link=topic=730480.msg5754857#msg5754857 date=1442164787
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the US one is now much better than 'ours', even when I have no idea who the subject is!!  ???  [/quote]

So can you identify what the formula differences are currently between the 2 versions?   
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 14 September 15 14:33 BST (UK)
[quote author=jillruss link=topic=730480.msg5754857#msg5754857 date=1442164787
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the US one is now much better than 'ours', even when I have no idea who the subject is!!  ??? 

So can you identify what the formula differences are currently between the 2 versions?
[/quote]

I'll make a start:  ;D

Recaps in case you can't remember what you saw before the long ad break.
What's coming up next in case you miss it after the long ad break.
Long ad breaks in case you can't manage to watch an hour long TV programme without popping to the loo every few minutes during said ad break.
Long ad breaks in order to have a shorter TV programme because half of the hour is taken up with ads.
Annoying music - for some reason they did not find the original WDYTYA music suitable although Australian WDYTYA did.
 ;D
Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: Mowsehowse on Monday 14 September 15 14:37 BST (UK)
 ;D ;D ;D
Gee thanks Ruskie!!
 ::)
Perhaps I will stick with the UK version for now.
 :o
Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: Galium on Monday 14 September 15 14:46 BST (UK)
Quote
YES  I held my mouth open, when I saw the actual marriage cert on the page... ARRRGGHH  I thought that doesn't happen..

The marriage we saw was from the Ancestry West Yorkshire parish register collection (it was at St Peter, Leeds), so there is an image of the register page to view. 
The same applies to many marriages in London, Surrey, Warwickshire, Lancashire, Gloucestershire, Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester - so long as they were CofE church weddings.
Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: jan57 on Monday 14 September 15 15:15 BST (UK)
Quote
YES  I held my mouth open, when I saw the actual marriage cert on the page... ARRRGGHH  I thought that doesn't happen..

The marriage we saw was from the Ancestry West Yorkshire parish register collection (it was at St Peter, Leeds), so there is an image of the register page to view. 
The same applies to many marriages in London, Surrey, Warwickshire, Lancashire, Gloucestershire, Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester - so long as they were CofE church weddings.

  was about to say  the  same  statement !    I've seen quite a few  of  my  relatives( and hubbys side  also) from  seeing the  images ,  and saved  a few pennies  in the  process ! 
Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: fraser1 on Monday 14 September 15 16:04 BST (UK)
Thanks for the information.   I think perhaps a couple of marriages might have been in London but don't know what church so it will be worth a look.   Can you see births and deaths?

Sandra
Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: Galium on Monday 14 September 15 16:22 BST (UK)
The marriage records are available because it is parish registers you are looking at. After 1837 the church marriage register page is set out like the civil register, showing the same details.


Birth and death details are not entered in church registers, only at the register office, so are not available to view online, as is also the case with register office marriages.

However, parish registers do contain baptism and burial records.  Baptism records will sometime give a date of birth, but mostly record only the date of baptism.  Burial records usually only show the date of burial.
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: jillruss on Monday 14 September 15 17:24 BST (UK)
[quote author=jillruss link=topic=730480.msg5754857#msg5754857 date=1442164787
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the US one is now much better than 'ours', even when I have no idea who the subject is!!  ??? 

So can you identify what the formula differences are currently between the 2 versions?

I'll make a start:  ;D

Recaps in case you can't remember what you saw before the long ad break.
What's coming up next in case you miss it after the long ad break.
Long ad breaks in case you can't manage to watch an hour long TV programme without popping to the loo every few minutes during said ad break.
Long ad breaks in order to have a shorter TV programme because half of the hour is taken up with ads.
Annoying music - for some reason they did not find the original WDYTYA music suitable although Australian WDYTYA did.
 ;D
[/quote]

Wow! Glad you got that off your chest! Yes, you do get ads, like everything else on tv which isn't on BBC - I record the programme and zip through them so they don't bother me. The recaps are very brief. I couldn't give a tinkers about the music but actually prefer it to the British version.

To me, the biggest difference is that the subject of the programme does the 'narration', not Cherie Lunghi or Mark Strong or another disembodied voice. That way, it comes across as more immediate and personal. In most cases too, I think that there is much more of the subject doing the research and discussing the documentation with an expert. They also tend to go as far back as they can rather than stopping at what grandad did in the war.

Anyway, in case you actually want to make your own mind up, Ruskie, its on the Watch channel tomorrow night at 9pm. Its about someone I don't know - Angie Harmon from a series called Rizzoli & Isles which I've heard of but never watched. Last week's was singer Josh Groban and was very interesting. The one they did on Jim Parsons of The Big Bang Theory (one of my favourites) was one of the best I've ever watched - British or American.

Like ours, they're not all great but certainly worth a watch.
Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: Finley 1 on Monday 14 September 15 17:36 BST (UK)
Angie Harmon is great .. Rizzoli and isles...   a comedic detective...

as regards certs on line,  mine are mostly Non conformists... :(  and not in the areas they seem to be available on line...

Even free reg, shouts back at me.. no you get nothing from me  :)

xin
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: smudwhisk on Monday 14 September 15 17:54 BST (UK)
To me, the biggest difference is that the subject of the programme does the 'narration', not Cherie Lunghi or Mark Strong or another disembodied voice. That way, it comes across as more immediate and personal. In most cases too, I think that there is much more of the subject doing the research and discussing the documentation with an expert. They also tend to go as far back as they can rather than stopping at what grandad did in the war.

Sorry but while the celebrity does do some of the narration, they do not do all of it.  There is frequently a male voice doing some of the narration, especially but not exclusively for the recaps. :-\

And for them doing the research themselves, not really got much of an impression of that myself and I've seen quite a few of the US series.  They seem to be handed a lot of it by the "experts" as with the other versions, although you do occasionally see them surfing the web a little.  As I've also seen quite a number of the Australian series, I'm afraid I'd agree with Ruskie's view of the US series.  In my personal view, its the worst of the three, albeit that the last couple of series have improved a bit but then they have started concentrating on not trying to go back as far as possible.  Which I know is what some RCers complain about the more recent UK series, but more detail makes it more interesting.

As for the UK series, I'd put Paul Hollywood's so far as the worst followed by Jerry Hall's.  While I quite like Jerry's I do agree with the others that said it would have been better suited to the US series, but then it wouldn't have covered so much because of all the Ad breaks. :-X  A few series back the format in the UK series to me was getting rather dull and it would seem the programme makers thought the same, hence the tweaking of the format that has gone on and concentrating on less generation jumping.  That said, it's not perfect but has become more interesting again.

But, as always gets said, we're all entitled to our own viewpoints on these things and I know some RCers will disagree with me. ;D

As has already been said on this thread, we have to remember its an entertainment programme, not a "how to do genealogy" series. ;)
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: jillruss on Monday 14 September 15 18:44 BST (UK)
To me, the biggest difference is that the subject of the programme does the 'narration', not Cherie Lunghi or Mark Strong or another disembodied voice. That way, it comes across as more immediate and personal. In most cases too, I think that there is much more of the subject doing the research and discussing the documentation with an expert. They also tend to go as far back as they can rather than stopping at what grandad did in the war.

Sorry but while the celebrity does do some of the narration, they do not do all of it.  There is frequently a male voice doing some of the narration, especially but not exclusively for the recaps. :-\

And for them doing the research themselves, not really got much of an impression of that myself and I've seen quite a few of the US series.  They seem to be handed a lot of it by the "experts" as with the other versions, although you do occasionally see them surfing the web a little.  As I've also seen quite a number of the Australian series, I'm afraid I'd agree with Ruskie's view of the US series.  In my personal view, its the worst of the three, albeit that the last couple of series have improved a bit but then they have started concentrating on not trying to go back as far as possible.  Which I know is what some RCers complain about the more recent UK series, but more detail makes it more interesting.

As for the UK series, I'd put Paul Hollywood's so far as the worst followed by Jerry Hall's.  While I quite like Jerry's I do agree with the others that said it would have been better suited to the US series, but then it wouldn't have covered so much because of all the Ad breaks. :-X  A few series back the format in the UK series to me was getting rather dull and it would seem the programme makers thought the same, hence the tweaking of the format that has gone on and concentrating on less generation jumping.  That said, it's not perfect but has become more interesting again.

But, as always gets said, we're all entitled to our own viewpoints on these things and I know some RCers will disagree with me. ;D



Ain't that the truth! Unlike you, my impression of the US version is that most of the narration is undertaken by the subject and that the male voice just joins the sections together. I also have the distinct impression that they were going further back now yet you think the exact opposite! How strange! I haven't seen the Australian version so can't comment.

I still think the British version would be improved by better selection of subjects, rather than picking individuals like Paul Hollywood, Mary Berry and Gareth Malone just because they are today's news but will probably be forgotten in a few years. No problem if they had an interesting ancestry to research but they didn't really, did they? I don't know if its a problem with the show's producers wanting to appeal to the masses or with the researchers who can't find enough interesting bods to look into. Perhaps a bit of both? Its a pity, really, because it could be (and has been) such a good programme but everything seems to have fallen into a dull formula. So far this series, all I can say is thank goodness for Derek Jacobi.

As for the US version, give it a try and see what you think.
Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: Finley 1 on Monday 14 September 15 19:28 BST (UK)
Sorry BUT I remember Mary Berry from TV many years ago.... so she is far from 'Todays News'  !



xin
Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: nanny jan on Monday 14 September 15 19:51 BST (UK)
Sorry BUT I remember Mary Berry from TV many years ago.... so she is far from 'Todays News'  !



xin

So do I!   ;)  ;D
Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: Mowsehowse on Monday 14 September 15 19:57 BST (UK)
Sorry BUT I remember Mary Berry from TV many years ago.... so she is far from 'Todays News'  !  xin

So do I!   ;)  ;D 

My reaction too. Mary Berry has had a very long and distinguished career. Check out the number of books she has had published!!

In fact I think it is a good many years since Gareth Malone formed the Military Wives Choir isn't it??
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: Barnes612 on Monday 14 September 15 20:08 BST (UK)

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the US one is now much better than 'ours', even when I have no idea who the subject is!!  ???

Crikey! Really? It's only 30 minutes long and because of that all they appear to do (to me) is present the star with info and the star says, 'Oh, wow! That's amazing!' Then it's a recap, then another recap because the ads have been on, then another bit of info and another 'Oh wow! That's amazing!' Repeat.

There was one show though where the female star had an ancestor who either lost a leg or who had to saw someone's leg off out in the great yonder, and she was doing a reconstruction of what happened and she was so into it I thought she was just going to keep going and saw her own leg off.  ;D ;D ;D I don't think the ads had got to the stage where they took up half the timeslot in that series, though.
Title: Re: BBC "WDYTYA" Series 12 Episode 5: Gareth Malone
Post by: DavidG02 on Monday 14 September 15 23:10 BST (UK)
. I also have the distinct impression that they were going further back now yet you think the exact opposite! How strange! I haven't seen the Australian version so can't comment.


Its a mixed bag. The first few series pushed back to find the  overseas connection but overall it follows the story.

Peter Rowsthorn only went back to the 1930s to find his grandfather. It was a good program for those who have brick walls and untold family stories. (though I felt Peters father knew more than he let on)

Others have gone back to early Oz history, others have gone to Europe to pre-2nd World War while 1 or 2 have had Concentration Camp stories which can be quite harrowing

I also think the ''celebrities'' that the program wants to get are quite choosy about letting people know who they really are  ;) so you get the ones with no fear.

Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: Ruskie on Tuesday 15 September 15 00:14 BST (UK)
I am willing to give the US version another try as I haven't seen any for some time. Due to the reasons I mentioned (jokingly) above and my lack of interest in American History (sorry) they left me cold I'm afraid. Plus I sensed a degree of falseness in some of the 'celebs'. It was not so much the stories but the manner in which they were presented I think.

Something I recently discovered is that the (current?) American series has a programme about JK Rowling. I am pretty sure I saw her on the UK version a couple of seasons ago. I have not yet watched the American 'version' but looking at the ad it seems to me that they have pinched the UK programme, put an American voiceover, and added more ads and recaps.  ::)

The Australian series is enjoyable - similar to the UK series in that some stories are more interesting than others. David is correct in that in this current series the family history has not gone back very far, however they have looked into specific family mysteries and tried to solve these. (and the stories have been very interesting) So, justified I think. :) One thing I really like is that the music and intro are the same as the UK WDYTYA, with the addition of a bit of digeridoo and a gum tree rather than the UK's oak(?) tree. I thought that was a nice touch.  :)
Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: jillruss on Tuesday 15 September 15 11:12 BST (UK)
My point wasn't really whether people liked or knew the 'celebrity' (what an over used word!) in question. It was more that that was why they were being chosen as subjects for the programme irrespective of their ancestry and how interesting it was.

I seem to remember a few years back reading that they'd shelved a prog on Michael Parkinson because it wasn't of sufficient interest. Anything to do with the fact that by that time he was only on tv to do the odd panel show and advertise death insurance - I feel sure that, had he still been a Saturday night chat show host, the prog would have gone ahead?







Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: Galium on Tuesday 15 September 15 12:15 BST (UK)
In this article from 2011:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/tv/2011/08/who-do-you-think-you-are.shtml
 executive producer Tom McDonald says:



Before we commit to making an episode with a particular celebrity, we do around three months of dedicated research - first building their family tree, then trying to get all the documents available relating to their ancestors.

This is a painstaking task, which often leads to dead ends and brick walls.

Sometimes, we're extremely lucky - a vital clue will simply fall into our hands. But in some cases we have to make the difficult decision to stop the research and let the celebrity know that we won't be able to make the programme.

Of course, we provide them with all the research we've accumulated - but as far as the series goes, that's the end of the story.

This means for a run of 10 episodes, we research around 30 people.

So it hasn't just been Michael Parkinson that never made it to the series. 
Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: jennifer c on Tuesday 15 September 15 12:54 BST (UK)
I'm sure between us we could provide them with far more interesting people to feature. :)

Jennifer
Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: Finley 1 on Tuesday 15 September 15 13:01 BST (UK)
Would be interesting to see a list of the almost made its... :)

xin
Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: Ruskie on Tuesday 15 September 15 13:18 BST (UK)
Would be interesting to see a list of the almost made its... :)

xin

It certainly would be interesting to see a list ... and the reasons why they were scrapped. That would almost be a programme (or two) in itself I would think.  :)
Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: Rishile on Tuesday 15 September 15 13:28 BST (UK)
first building their family tree, then trying to get all the documents available relating to their ancestors.

This is a painstaking task, which often leads to dead ends and brick walls.

Sometimes, we're extremely lucky - a vital clue will simply fall into our hands. [/i][/b]


This sounds like my research to me  ;D
Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: DavidG02 on Tuesday 15 September 15 13:35 BST (UK)
Quote from: Ruskie
It certainly would be interesting to see a list ... and the reasons why they were scrapped. That would almost be a programme (or two) in itself I would think

Even if they showed the dead ends so that people don't think it is ''easy''. The frustration a lot of ''us'' have is that we ( most of us) know the frustration of finding dead ends and shows like this make it seem easy.

I also think it would highlight record sets that many wouldn't think of.
Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: Finley 1 on Tuesday 15 September 15 14:13 BST (UK)
MAYBE   there should be a NEW prog..........   
Just going all out to break down the Brick Walls (idea  copyrighted as of this moment by me xin  :o ::) ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D)

But it would be (well for me) interesting to see how they would actually go about sorting out the dead ends we have come across.   :o :D

It would suit being called... Humpty's remains (cos he fell off the wall when it fell down)

Should start a new post with ideas for the new version of Humpty's Shell :)

( I know crazier by the minute )


xin

Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: ankerdine on Tuesday 15 September 15 15:25 BST (UK)
Ha, ha, a lot of broken shells! ::)

It's been said before that many of us RCs have interesting trees and stories. As we are not famous then these stories wouldn't appeal to the usual viewer. I, for one, really enjoy hearing other folks' tales.  Friends are quite shocked when I relate details of OH's ancestor going to prison for stealing, my gypsy relatives travelling the roads, never mind the illegitimate births and husbands running off with other women! It's all happened to the best/rest of us too! ;)

Judy
Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: ScouseBoy on Tuesday 15 September 15 21:16 BST (UK)
Gareth had a rather Superior attitude,I thought.
He seemed to lookdown  on ordinary people'
Title: Who Do You Think You Are - Gareth Malone
Post by: SuzyWoo on Friday 18 September 15 13:11 BST (UK)
Hi,

I have just been watching the Gareth Malone episode of Who Do You Think You are.

About halfway through the programme he is searching for a family that he traces to Leeds.

He searches for them online and brings up a copy of a marriage certificate on a website.

I was not aware of any such website existing and wonder if anyone could shed some light on which website he was using.

Many Thanks

Sue

Moderator Comment: topics merged

Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are - Gareth Malone
Post by: jan57 on Friday 18 September 15 13:23 BST (UK)
 Hi ,  Gareth  was   looking  at the West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1935  On Ancestry 
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are - Gareth Malone
Post by: ScouseBoy on Friday 18 September 15 13:23 BST (UK)
There is already a WDYTYA      Gareth Malone thread,  perhaps you could not spot it?

But I do not recall that bit, sorry.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are - Gareth Malone
Post by: SuzyWoo on Friday 18 September 15 13:30 BST (UK)
Hi,

Thankyou Jan for your reply.

Sorry I had missed the earlier Gareth Malone thread, I'll have a good read of it now.

Many Thanks

Sue
Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: IgorStrav on Sunday 20 September 15 21:19 BST (UK)
Just caught up with the Gareth Malone episode.

My only comment, having read through this thread, is that everyone is very different, aren't they.

I thought it was great, fascinating, and loved the singing. If you feature a musician, then that may be the sort of thing you get.

His realisation that Dan Lowrey's occupation was 'sings at concerts' (I bet we all spotted that instantly having looked at so many censuses) was fabulous. How exciting was that! Reminded me of my thunderbolt moments.  ;D

Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: Blue70 on Monday 20 March 17 00:19 GMT (UK)
This episode was on the Yesterday channel as it had adverts it was only 45 minutes long. I think there was less singing on this version ;D.


Blue
Title: Re: BBC "Who Do You Think You Are?" Gareth Malone (WDYTYA Series 12 Episode 5)
Post by: dathai on Sunday 15 May 22 15:35 BST (UK)
Charlotte Lowery died 1882 wife of Daniel Lowery,Licenced Vintner informant was Elizabeth Barber of Brownslow Hill,Liverpool

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1882/06394/4836038.pdf

Daniel snr died 3rd July 1889   Buried Glasnevin
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01rjk/

Will index http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014903/005014903_00217.pdf

Daniel jnr died Aug 1897 at Buxton,Derby

will index
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014910/005014910_00135.pdf

possible Obit
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q269-QQL7