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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: Vatersay on Tuesday 08 September 15 08:27 BST (UK)
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Hello there
Trying to find out about a Lieutenant Charles Rose R.N and Mrs Rose who were caught up in a maritime disaster in 1853. They had come from Quebec to talk to a boat owner and were returning to take charge of a new boat that was being built in Quebec for William Holderness the owner.
http://www.anniejane.net/
http://www.anniejane.net/passengers/cabin-passengers-drowned/
Just wondering if they got caught by the 1851 census.
Would love to find out Mrs Rose name and if they had left any children behind.
Also the ship Annie Jane can I find out which shipyard she was built in are there any records? She was built in a Quebec yard in 1853 and was wrecked on her maiden voyage.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Allan
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Hi
Might not be the same man, but there is reference on this pdf of a Lt Charles Rose. It is referring to three letters written to him by family members, concerning his settlement & farm in Melbourne Quebec, between the years of 1835-1847. Unfortunately it's just a reference (no detail).
http://www.etrc.ca/fileadmin/etrc_documents/images/archives/ETRC_Settlement-web.pdf
1852 Census
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census52/District.jsp?ew=e&id=29
Not seeing anything definite?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Thanks for that Ambly
I will go through that tonight and see if I can find him, but that's interesting, if he had been in Quebec that long its quite possible that children exist. I took a quick glance and was amazed by how many were born in Scotland.
I can't see there being two Lt Charles Rose in Quebec at the same time, just think of the confusion in the phone book. ;)
Thanks again for your prompt response
Regards Allan
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Hi,
An entry in "The Gentleman's Magazine" gives the name of his wife as Miriam.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01g33/
Cheers,
DB
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Thank you Ambly very much, have not found the homestead yet but will keep looking through the townships its good to know that they were long established in Quebec.
DB the clip from Gentleman's magazine which I had never heard of not only gives me her name but also clears up the mystery of who Mr Cattley was, a 13 year old travelling over to Canada who appears to be on his own?
Every puzzle solved throws up another one.
Again thanks that's fantastic research by both of you.
Regards Allan
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That was a great find dbreez ;D
Hi Allan,
Have you spotted the 1852 Census Entry for 'Chris' ROSE age 59 in Subdistrict # 430, Melbourne township Brompton Gore - wife Miriam? I'd bet this is him and 'Chris' is a mis-transcript for "Chas" or Cha's" or "Chas" - looking at the original image (click 'splitview' to load the image), I'd say it is meant to be "Chas".
There's also a John ROSE in Subdistrict # 430, Melbourne township - Brompton Gore part A , age 44 who has a daughter name Meriam....wonder if they're related?
Re: Master CATTLEY, the way he is mentioned in the middle of the piece about the ROSEs, it says to me that he was likely travelling with them - could be related?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Thanks again
That really puts flesh on the bones, four children and two of them Canadians that puts him in Canada about 16 years. I feel I can call them Miriam and Charles now as if we have been formally introduced.
Its possible they were related to Mr Cattley but one family was from Plymouth and one from just outside York you could not put any more distance between them in England. Its much more likely that who ever put John Cattley on the boat put them into the care of the Roses. Just occurred to me that if the Roses were based in Quebec and we know they were only over to England on a short visit, they may have been tasked by the father to pick him up and bring him over to Canada to join him.
Great work
Allan
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I feel I can call them Miriam and Charles now as if we have been formally introduced.
:) I know exactly what you mean - the decades, centuries even, just melt away and they feel like someone we know well today!
If you haven't already, you can find what is most probably their marriage plus the 2 English children's births on Family Search.
https://familysearch.org/search/
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi Ambly
Thanks for pointing out this site. I did my family tree years ago before everything became so much more accessible. So all new to me, its a steep learning curve.
Found the marriage, in Devon as it should be :) its good when it all comes together.
I hope you will help me again, I am taking a break for a little while as I have a work related course coming up that I need to study for.
Another three down only 327 people to find :'(
Regards Allan
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Hi,
Ambly - thank you :) and excellent that you found the family on the census.
Vatersay - you're welcome :) I have been researching the "Annie Jane" but I am not finding
anything about the build or where. And....327 people to find....yikes ;D ;D
Cheers,
DB
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Also the ship Annie Jane can I find out which shipyard she was built in are there any records? She was built in a Quebec yard in 1853 and was wrecked on her maiden voyage.
If I've read the biography correctly,she was built at the Anse au Foulon shipyard, near Quebec City:
http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/dinning_henry_11E.html
You may have already read the Trove newspaper article about it; if not, it's worth a look. It refers to Rose as Captain Rose, a passenger. http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5269670
Good luck in your endeavor!
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Thanks very much for that, I had seen that page and I missed the Annie Jane on the list, I have so much to read so I am just scanning, so that's a lesson to me. Slow down.
So thanks again for taking an interest, I am grateful to get that information of where the ship was built. As for the Rose's I have their names and family , what I am puzzled by is if Lieutenant Rose was a sea Captain, why did he put his occupation down in the 1852 census as farmer?
Regards Allan
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Could this be the Charles Rose named by his uncle, commander James Rose, RN, as an heir in his will,
available from the British National Archives. James Rose states that Charles, son of his brother Alexander Rose, was a lieutenant RN and is in Canada. The will dates from 1838, with an update increasing the sum to be inherited by Charles, in 1840. James Rose is from Nairn Scotland, I have not found his brother Alexander, but the entries so far suggests this Charles could be the same who later drowned.
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DB the clip from Gentleman's magazine which I had never heard of not only gives me her name but also clears up the mystery of who Mr Cattley was, a 13 year old travelling over to Canada who appears to be on his own?
If you go back to your first post with the link to cabin casualties/survivors and re-read the casualty list you will see that young Cattley was put into the care of Francois Cornu by his father. Cornu was amongst the survivors.
Just read one of the first accounts of this from the Glasgow Herald dated 14 October 1853. The initial voyage of the Annie Jane (not counting the passage from Quebec to Liverpool for fittings) had to be one of the most horrendous voyages ever with gales, loss of masts, turning backs and passenger revolts. Make a good movie.
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Thanks for that both of you
Inge I think that is the right Charles Rose, in the Canadian Census he is down as Scottish. So looks like a Royal Navy career was a family tradition.
Manawakian this is a bit of a chicken and an egg situation, I got the info here about the young Mr Catterly, found another French article saying that a young man was put into the care of Mr Cornu.
Then I added that to the Anniejane.net website which is a work in progress, growing as I discover new information.
You are right though it is a great story.
Regards Allan
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There is a Lt Charles Rose who passed for Lieutenant in 1815 on the 1852 Navy List, but who is missing from the 1854 List. In which case he has an entry in O'Byrne's Naval Biography of 1849, this contains no family information, but does have details of his naval career.
Martin
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This is very likely the Charles Rose I was talking about. He was promoted in 1815, but I didn't find his name via the British National Archives, so thanks for this new information. He is listed in Parliamentary Papers, House of Commons and Command, volume 31 as having been granted land (105 acres) in Canada, township of Upton (in 1837) for services in navy by authority from the Admiralty. He had two children, Elizabeth (b. 1831) and Hugh Ebenezer (1833) born in Devonport who would have been young adults by the time their parents tragically drowned in the shipwreck.
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Hello Allan
This is very likely the Charles Rose I was talking about. ...having been granted land (105 acres) in Canada, township of Upton (in 1837) ...
The land grant given to Lieutenant Rose was for Township of Acton, not Township of Upton as given in the Parliamentary Papers. It is a clerical entry error in the Parliamentary Papers.:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01guk/
You can access Lieutenant C. Rose's 1837 land grant document from National Library & Archives Canada website – in the Township of Acton, Lot 25 & 32 of 200 Arpents being about 400 acres :
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gul/
Linda
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1852 Census ... Not seeing anything definite?
You won't find the Rose family, as the census returns for Acton township (Drummond District #8, sub-district # 105) no longer exist.
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/census/1851/Pages/canada-east.aspx#d
Update: must have sold his grant land if he is in Gore of Brompton.
Linda
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Hello, I'm glad it wasn't my error, but an error in the Parliamtentary Papers. Still, it does show how errors creep into history. Inge