RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: sremmus on Sunday 06 September 15 08:13 BST (UK)
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I am looking for descendants of Mary Robb and George Thomas Green who can fill in the gaps. They are my maternal grandfathers, grandparents, so my great great grandparents. I have the birth information of my great grandfather which includes his parents names and that they were living near Port Adelaide in South Australia at the time of his birth but everything else is sketchy. I have been given information about their marriage but not sure if its accurate. It states that their parents are David Robb and John Edward Green. There are several registered Mary Robb's who marry men by the name of Green, so you can see my confusion. I also cannot find birth records for either of them and was wondering if they were migrants. Anyway if you can help it would be greatly appreciated.
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Hi,
Can you give us some more information to work with please?
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The marriage was in 1890
1890 164/1051 GREEN George ROBB Mary at Port Adelaide
There are numerous reports in the news of the day about one George Thomas GREEN, married man abducting a 16 year old girl and the subsequent trial and other "outcomes"
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/search?adv=y
Is this the correct man?
Sue
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Perhaps this is the birth of your ancestor-
1890 GREEN George Edward
Parents George GREEN & Mary ROBB
Port Adelaide
It is possible this is the birth registration for the male child who was born as result of the "abduction" as mentioned in the news items.
It was common practice for the unplanned child of a single girl to be registered in the name of the girl's parents. William was the name of the abducted girl's father.
1895 GOUDIE Andrew Robert
William GOUDIE & Elizabeth CAMPBELL
Port Adelaide
You may have more success with your inquiries, sremmus, if it was on the Australian board of Rootschat.
Sue
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Birth in NZ:
1895/11635
GOUDIE, Arthur George
Mother : Jessie
Father: Not named
"Green was subsequently arrested, and the two of them were brought back to Port Adelaide. She was confined of a male child, which died last Saturday night."
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/87168909
Arthur George GOUDIE
Age: 9 Weeks
Died: 30 Nov 1895
Port Adelaide
Mother: Jessie GOUDIE
Page Number: 256
Volume Number: 231
"Green, who followed the occupation of a ferryman, has a wife and child residing at Birkenhead"
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/161830631
The marriage certificate will show your George's occupation as well as witness names who may be relatives of the bride and groom. The birth cert of George Edward will also show the father's occupation. The two events only being a month apart I would expect that the occupations will be the same.
What happened to George Edward? Did he marry, stay in SA?
Debra :)
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This marriage and death in NSW would have to be of interest:
3433/1900
GREEN, GEORGE T
GOUDIE, JESSIE
at BROKEN HILL
4470/1905
GREEN, GEORGE T
Father: JOHN E
Mother: MARY
at BROKEN HILL
GREEN - In loving remembrance of George Thomas Green, who died at the Broken Hill Hospital on May 23 1905. Inserted by his loving wife (Jessie) and children (George and Walter Green).
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/44500923
Debra :)
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Mary GREEN
Age: 28
Died: 12 Jun 1899
Birkenhead
Registered: Port Adelaide, South Australia
Relative: George GREEN (Husband)
Page #30
Volume #262
THE FRIENDS of Mr. G. GREEN are informed that the Funeral of his late WIFE (Mary) will leave the residence of her Father (Mr. D. Robb), Swigg-street, Birkenhead, on TUESDAY, at 2.30 p.m. for the Woodville Cemetery, W. F. DESLANDES, Undertaker.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/73220991
ROBB - THE FRIENDS of the late Mr. DAVID ROBB are respectfully informed that his Remains will be removed from his late residence, Swigg-street, Birkenhead, on TUESDAY, at 3.30 p.m. for interment in the Cheltenham Cemetery.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5608770
ROBB - On the 14th March, at Unley, Maria, beloved wife of late David Robb of Swigg street, Birkenhead. Aged 83. At rest.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/47544178
Birth in SA
5 May 1873
at Glanville
ROBBE, Maria
Father: David ROBBE
Mother: Maria HAYES
Registered Port Adelaide
122/111
Debra :)
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Hi Debra,
I do hope sremmus comes online to see your helpful and intriguing findings.
Well done!
I am clearly mistaken in my previous thoughts about the 1895 birth registration in the name GOUDIE. (Reply #3)
Sue
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Hi Everyone, thank you for all the replies. The information has been a great help. Mary Robb and George Thomas Green married at Birkenhead, South Australia and moved to Broken Hill. Both of them are buried in Broken Hill. Mary's father David was born in Scotland and died at his home in Birkenhead South Australia. His wife Maria Hayes was born and died in South Australia. I have now been able to go back another three generations and finally filling in the gaps. ;D
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Mary ROBB did not die in Broken Hill.
Mary GREEN
Age: 28
Died: 12 Jun 1899
Birkenhead
Registered: Port Adelaide, South Australia
Relative: George GREEN (Husband)
Page #30
Volume #262
THE FRIENDS of Mr. G. GREEN are informed that the Funeral of his late WIFE (Mary) will leave the residence of her Father (Mr. D. Robb), Swigg-street, Birkenhead, on TUESDAY, at 2.30 p.m. for the Woodville Cemetery, W. F. DESLANDES, Undertaker.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/73220991
Debra :)
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Mary GREEN
Age: 28
Died: 12 Jun 1899
Birkenhead
Registered: Port Adelaide, South Australia
Relative: George GREEN (Husband)
Page #30
Volume #262
Birth in SA
5 May 1873
at Glanville
ROBBE, Maria
Father: David ROBBE
Mother: Maria HAYES
Registered Port Adelaide
122/111
Debra :)
Maria ROBB born 5 May 1873 was aged 19 when she married Samuel Philip MCNEIL on 8 Jun 1892.
PtA / 171/929
This couple had children 1892, 1895 and 1899.
Mary ROBB c1871 appears to be the eldest child of David ROBB and Maria HAYES.
Mary was also aged 19 when she married George GREEN on 25 Sep 1890.
PtA / 164/1051
Essie
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After Georg e Thomas Green died, Jessie married again
4040/1907 EVERUSS Alfred M
GREEN Jessie
At BROKEN HILL
She died in 1921
13856/1921 EVERUSS Jessie
Parents William & Elizabeth
At BROKEN HILL
They had children.
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search?0
She and her second husband are buried at Broken Hill Cemetery
http://www.bhcemetery.com.au/
Sue
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Hi All, after a discussion with my aunt I have discovered that there has always been confusion over the death of Mary Green (Robb) as she died suddenly and there is a headstone next to George in the Broken Hill cemetery. There is no proof that George is the person sited in the news article about a child abduction but I have a number of George Green's in my family so there could be a skeleton in someones cupboard. Mary gave birth to a child 12 months prior to her marriage to George but no father is listed. I have been told by family that she raised the child with George.
Dundee, the information you have given me has lined up with existing information I have but also filled in many gaps. Thank you.
I have also had a scanned document sent to me which tells a story of Charles Hayes and how he came to be in Australia. Charles Hayes is Mary Robb's maternal grandfather.
Finally it is all unfolding. I didn't get this much information any other ancestral site. Keep sending anything you have.
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There is no proof that George is the person sited in the news article about a child abduction but I have a number of George Green's in my family so there could be a skeleton in someones cupboard.
I have also had a scanned document sent to me which tells a story of Charles Hayes and how he came to be in Australia. Charles Hayes is Mary Robb's maternal grandfather.
Do you think, then, it is just a co-incidence ??? that very shortly after the death of his wife, Mary that one George Thomas GREEN married Jessie GOUDIE in Broken Hill?
George Thomas GREEN also being the name of the abductor of the young Jessie GOUDIE.
Sue
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1888 ROBB Mary
Father -NULL (=not listed)
Mother- Mary ROBB
At Port Adelaide
Sue
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1888 ROBB Mary
Father -NULL (=not listed)
Mother- Mary ROBB
At Port Adelaide
Sue
BIRTH DATE was 28 Oct 1888
PtA / 426/326
This infant died at Birkenhead
Mary ROBB
Date 12 Nov 1888 aged 2w
Mother was Mary ROBB
PtA / 174/319
Essie
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Hi All, after a discussion with my aunt I have discovered that there has always been confusion over the death of Mary Green (Robb) as she died suddenly and there is a headstone next to George in the Broken Hill cemetery.
Firstly the George Thomas GREEN and Mary Elizabeth GREEN buried together in the Broken Hill Cemetery couldn't possibly be your family. Yes there is a headstone for this couple. Perhaps the researcher should have read the inscription.
This George T died in 1910 [not in 1905] in a mining accident aged 62 years and Mary E died in 1938 aged 75 years.
GREEN George Thomas
Anglican N Grave#25 7 May 1910
GREEN Mary Elizabeth
Anglican N Grave#25 16 Sep 1938
Deaths of the above couple - none of the parents names match.
4735/1910 GREEN George T Parents Benjamin and Anna Broken Hill
19900/1938 GREEN Mary Elizabeth Parents Carl Christian and Elizabeth Ann Broken Hill
Yes your George Thomas GREEN is buried at Broken Hill but there is no headstone or Mary at the same site or nearby.
Interred at Broken Hill Cemetery -
GREEN George T
Anglican Grave#27 24 May 1905
Death
4470/1905
GREEN, George T Parents John E [?Edward] Mother Mary Broken Hill
There is no proof that George is the person sited in the news article about a child abduction but I have a number of George Green's in my family so there could be a skeleton in someones cupboard.
I have also had a scanned document sent to me which tells a story of Charles Hayes and how he came to be in Australia. Charles Hayes is Mary Robb's maternal grandfather.
Why not purchase a transcription of the 1900 marriage cert? Costs AUD $20 and the transcript is emailed to you.
This certificate would give the groom's and bride's parents' names including the mothers' maiden names; ages, places of birth and occupation of the bride and groom and the groom's marital status.
Scroll down the page to the three approved transcription agents.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx
3433/1900
GREEN George T
GOUDIE Jessie
District Broken Hill
Who are you researching then......George Thomas GREEN or Mary ROBB?
What is the name of your maternal grandfathers, grandparents, so my great great grandparents. I have the birth information of my great grandfather which includes his parents names and that they were living near Port Adelaide in South Australia at the time of his birth but everything else is sketchy.
There are several registered Mary Robb's who marry men by the name of Green, so you can see my confusion.
Not in South Australia. This is the ONLY GREEN/ROBB marriage in South Australia.
Marriage - and so we have some ages
GREEN George 20 years Status Single Father John Edward GREEN
ROBB Mary 19 years Status Single Father David ROBB
25 Sep 1890
At St Paul, Port Adelaide 164/1057
Incidentally Mary's brothers also married at this church and the father was David ROBB of Birkenhead. Have a search on TROVE for the notices.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper
Mary's burial at Cheltenham Cemetery aka Woodville Cemetery.
Mary GREEN Died on 15 Jun 1899 at 28 years of age.
Previously lived in Port Adelaide , SA.
The grave site has been re-developed.
You have lots of opportunities to validate research with some certificates eg these certificates would usually detail the father's age, place of birth and occupation.
Births
2012/1901
GREEN Walter H
Father George Mother Jessie
South Broken Hill
30332/1902
GREEN Alexander J
Father George Mother Jessie
South Broken Hill
Death
1026/1903
GREEN Alexander J
Father George Mother Jessie
South Broken Hill
One of the many newspaper items mentioned that Jessie's father was William GOUDIE, a hairdresser and George Thomas GREEN was a ferryman.
After Georg e Thomas Green died, Jessie married again
4040/1907 EVERUSS Alfred M
GREEN Jessie
At BROKEN HILL
She died in 1921
13856/1921 EVERUSS Jessie
Parents William & Elizabeth
At BROKEN HILL
Birth
GOUDIE Jessy
15 Feb 1879
Father William GOUDIE Mother Elizabeth CAMPBELL
At Adelaide Ade215/246
Other births to this couple were at Portland Estate [former name for Port Adelaide] and Port Adelaide.
Apologies for jumping all over the place with my reply.
I'm convinced that your George Thomas GREEN who married Mary ROBB, abducted Jessie GOUDIE and married her in Broken Hill where after George T's death in 1905 Jessie married again and died in 1921. ;)
Cando
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This of course is the death of your great grandfather.
27107/1962 GREEN George Edward
GEORGE Thomas & Mary
At BROKEN HILL
He is buried, as you would know at Broken Hill with one Carolyn GREEN.
Some In Memoriam placed in the Broken Hill for George Thomas GREEN
were inserted by sons Walter and George, so it would seem that the two were in the same district from an early age.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/45030485
23 May 1908 death of Geo Thomas Green from sons George and Walter
"Barrier Miner"
Did Walter H. GREEN marry in Broken Hill?
4174/1921 GREEN Walter H
TROUGHTON Hilda A
At BROKEN HILL
Sue
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Here, for your interest, is a short obituaryfor the second husband of Jessie nee GOUDIE, Alfred Martin EVERUSS
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/46639863
Barrier Miner Tuesday 2 February 1932
Sue
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So, it looks as if your great grandfather's half brother died in South Australia..
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/49244448
Death Notice for Walter Hector GREEN who died in South Australia in 1952
DEATHS
GREEN. - On May 16, at his late residence, Briens Road, Northfield, Walter Hector,
beloved husband of Hilda Agnes Green, loving father of (name) and (name) ........... Aged 51 years.
FUNERAL NOTICE
GREEN. - The FRIENDS of the late Mr. WALTER HECTOR GREEN, are respectfully informed that his remains were interred in the Dudley Park Cemetery on May 19, at 2 p.m.
Barrier Miner Tuesday 20 May 1952
Sue
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Here, for your interest, is a short obituaryfor the second husband of Jessie nee GOUDIE, Alfred Martin EVERUSS
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/46639863
Barrier Miner Tuesday 2 February 1932
Sue
There is a headstone in the Broken Hill Cemetery for Alfred M.
Cando
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FUNERAL NOTICE
GREEN. - The FRIENDS of the late Mr. WALTER HECTOR GREEN, are respectfully informed that his remains were interred in the Dudley Park Cemetery on May 19, at 2 p.m.
There is a headstone.
GREEN
WALTER H 1952 AGE 51, HUSBAND OF HILDA
Walter H, 39 years and his son Walter G in a car accident in 1939
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article74427394
Cando
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Both of my grandparents had the birth name Green and so Nan did not have to change her last name upon marriage. There are several George Thomas Green's in my grandmothers side of the family originating in South Australia and passing in Broken Hill. Yes, a family member did die in a mining accident in the early 1900's. The previous family historian has made a mess of collecting information sadly. I have asked some of the very elderly family members and they do not remember being told that George Thomas remarried.
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NSW Electoral Roll 1903 BARRIER polling at Alma (it is a local name for a section of Broken Hill)
George Thomas GREEN of Wilson Street, miner
Jessie GREEN, of Wilson Street, domestic duties
Cheers, JM
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Mary gave birth to a child 12 months prior to her marriage to George but no father is listed. I have been told by family that she raised the child with George.
Clearly this is not true.
1888 ROBB Mary
Father -NULL (=not listed)
Mother- Mary ROBB
At Port Adelaide
Sue
BIRTH DATE was 28 Oct 1888
PtA / 426/326
This infant died at Birkenhead
Mary ROBB
Date 12 Nov 1888 aged 2w
Mother was Mary ROBB
PtA / 174/319
Essie
This of course is the death of your great grandfather.
27107/1962 GREEN George Edward
GEORGE Thomas & Mary
At BROKEN HILL
Some In Memoriam placed in the Broken Hill for George Thomas GREEN
were inserted by sons Walter and George, so it would seem that the two were in the same district from an early age.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/45030485
23 May 1908 death of Geo Thomas Green from sons George and Walter
"Barrier Miner"
Sue
I have asked some of the very elderly family members and they do not remember being told that George Thomas remarried.
So these relatives have no knowledge or recollection of Walter who was the son of the George Thomas GREEN who died in 1908?
Debra :)
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I am puzzled and confused ::)
You stated that George Thomas GREEN and Mary ROBB are your ancestors and we have assisted with much information about them.
However you now say The previous family historian has made a mess of collecting information so how do you know the very elderly family members' information is correct.
It would help us to help you if you would PLEASE post the names of your GREEN grandparents and in which state they married and we could progress from there
.
You should always research backwards from what you know to be correct. Surely you must know the names of your grandparents.
I can see two GREEN/GREEN marriages in South Australia and two in Broken Hill.
Cando
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NSW ER 1913 STUART polling at Patton Street (so this is also Broken Hill)
Alfred Martin EVERUSS, Wilson Street, labourer
Jessie EVERUSS, Wilson Street, domestic duties
Yes, I too am becoming confuddled. 8)
Cheers, JM
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So this is the marriage is it not, of your great grandfather GREEN George E?
1041/1911 GREEN George E
BEVEN Caroline
At BROKEN HILL
This of course is the death of your great grandfather.
27107/1962 GREEN George Edward
GEORGE Thomas & Mary
At BROKEN HILL
He is buried, as you would know at Broken Hill with one Carolyn GREEN.
Sue
Here is one child to them, I will check for others.
2371/1912 GREEN George W
Parents George E & Caroline
At BROKEN HILL
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Both of my grandparents had the birth name Green and so Nan did not have to change her last name upon marriage.
So here we have the marriage of the two people surnamed GREEN..
Is that correct?
21643/1935 GREEN George W R
GREEN (other) Name deleted as I have not yet located her death.
At BROKEN HILL
Sue
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So, it looks as if your great grandfather's half brother died in South Australia..
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/49244448
Death Notice for Walter Hector GREEN who died in South Australia in 1952
DEATHS
GREEN. - On May 16, at his late residence, Briens Road, Northfield, Walter Hector,
beloved husband of Hilda Agnes Green, loving father of (name) and (name) ........... Aged 51 years.
FUNERAL NOTICE
GREEN. - The FRIENDS of the late Mr. WALTER HECTOR GREEN, are respectfully informed that his remains were interred in the Dudley Park Cemetery on May 19, at 2 p.m.
Barrier Miner Tuesday 20 May 1952
Sue
I wondered whether you would like to know more about this very important part of your family, your great grandfather's half brother Walter Hector GREEN.
He had only one daughter and it was from her home his funeral departed
Funeral notice for Walter Hector Green in SA at home of his daughter Mrs COGDELL at Briens Rd Northfiled, SA in 1952
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/130277536
Her name was Ina Jessie ;D COGDELL and she had married in about 1943.
Here is the engagement notice
ENGAGEMENTS GREEN/COGDELL.The engagement is announced of Ina J., only daughter of Mr. and Mrs. W. H. Green, of Southwark, to William Henry (A.I.F.), eldest son of Mr. and Mrs. H. C. Cogdell, of Torrensville.
The Advertiser Friday 27 June 1941
There was at least one child and I can PM you a birth notice with details.
Ina Jessie COGDELL died. I cannot access further information here.
Advertiser COGDELL Ina Jesse. Year 2007
Sue
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Walter GREEN and George GREEN considered themselves brothers of the EVERUSS siblings. The EVERUSS sons were the nephews and cousins of the GOUDIE family.
See funeral notices for Horace William EVERUSS
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/46555262?searchTerm="George GREEN"&searchLimits=l-state=New+South+Wales|||l-title=53|||l-decade=193|||l-category=Family+Notices
Essie
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This might be the burial at Broken Hill for your grandfather
37414 GREEN George William Robert
Location Rose Garden ROSE 1. 1. 20
Date of Death 26-08-2003
Date of burial 3-7-2003
Sue
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I am looking for descendants of Mary Robb and George Thomas Green who can fill in the gaps. They are my maternal grandfathers, grandparents, so my great great grandparents
So your mother's grandfather's grandparents? And your maternal great great grandparents? Is that correct?
Adding to Sue's info.....
Australian Electoral Roll
1933
GREEN Caroline 497 McGowan Street, North Broken Hill HD
GREEN George Edward 497 McGowan Street, North Broken Hill Miner
GREEN George William Robert 497 McGowan Street, North Broken Hill Bread carter
21643/1935
GREEN George W R
GREEN Elizabeth G
District Broken Hill
1937
GREEN Caroline 497 McGowan Street, North Broken Hill HD
GREEN Elizabeth Gladys 497 McGowan Street, North Broken Hill HD
GREEN George Edward 497 McGowan Street, North Broken Hill Miner
GREEN George William Robert 497 McGowan Street, North Broken Hill Bread carter
WW2 Service Summaries for George William Robert GREEN born 14 Feb 1912 Broken Hill NOK Elizabeth
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=726907
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=694706
1943, 1949, 1954, 1958, 1963
GREEN Elizabeth Gladys 544 Lane Street North Broken Hill HD
GREEN George William Robert 544 Lane Street North Broken Hill Bread carter
1968
GREEN Elizabeth Gladys 544 Lane Street Broken Hill HD
GREEN George William Robert 544 Lane Street Broken Hill Storekeeper
1972
GREEN Elizabeth Gladys 323 Kaolin Street, Broken Hill Storekeeper
GREEN George William Robert 323 Kaolin Street Broken Hill Storekeeper
1980
GREEN Elizabeth Gladys 551 Lane Street, Broken Hill HD
GREEN George William Robert 551 Lane Street, Broken Hill Steward
Cando
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For your interest,
The wife of your grandfather was born in 1918 at Broken Hill.
Her parents appear to have had several children.
Sue
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There is a headstone in the Broken Hill Cemetery for George Edward and his wife Caroline. Photo available from this website
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~deadsearch/bkh_eg.htm
GREEN Caroline 1956 68 years, George 1962 71 years.
Cando
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Sue can you post the marriage of those parents as the OP may be tracing them :-\ I am so confused with the maternal grandparents....
Cando
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Sorry for being so circumspect.
Have PMed, Cando
There is a strong possibility this link will be of interest to our OP.
https://au.linkedin.com/in/cogdellconsulting
Sue
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Thank you Sue :)
Cando
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So, it looks as if your great grandfather's half brother died in South Australia..
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/49244448
Death Notice for Walter Hector GREEN who died in South Australia in 1952
DEATHS
GREEN. - On May 16, at his late residence, Briens Road, Northfield, Walter Hector,
beloved husband of Hilda Agnes Green, loving father of (name) and (name) ........... Aged 51 years.
FUNERAL NOTICE
GREEN. - The FRIENDS of the late Mr. WALTER HECTOR GREEN, are respectfully informed that his remains were interred in the Dudley Park Cemetery on May 19, at 2 p.m.
Barrier Miner Tuesday 20 May 1952
Sue
I wondered whether you would like to know more about this very important part of your family, your great grandfather's half brother Walter Hector GREEN.
He had only one daughter and it was from her home his funeral departed
Funeral notice for Walter Hector Green in SA at home of his daughter Mrs COGDELL at Briens Rd Northfiled, SA in 1952
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/130277536
Her name was Ina Jessie ;D COGDELL and she had married in about 1943.
Here is the engagement notice
ENGAGEMENTS GREEN/COGDELL.The engagement is announced of Ina J., only daughter of Mr. and Mrs. W. H. Green, of Southwark, to William Henry (A.I.F.), eldest son of Mr. and Mrs. H. C. Cogdell, of Torrensville.
The Advertiser Friday 27 June 1941
There was at least one child and I can PM you a birth notice with details.
Ina Jessie COGDELL died. I cannot access further information here.
Advertiser COGDELL Ina Jesse. Year 2007
Sue
Ina Jessie GREEN and her husband William Henry COGDELL are interred at Centennial Park Cemetery
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01g77/
Cando
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Hi sremmus,
I see you are choosing to close your thread now, and of course, this is another of the wonderful Rootschat options.
I, for one, hope you have gained a bit of a different view on your family's history and maybe even seen how old stories and factual evidence do not always tie up at all.
The group of helpers here can only offer skilfully researched and precise information from records, and you must take the next steps towards absolute validation.
I, and others here, are quite certain the information we have found for you regarding Jessie GOUDIE and George Thomas GREEN relate to your forebears and no-one else.
Hope you will be online to chat again before a moderator removes the thread to archives ;)
Sue
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If you had started with your grandparents and great grandparents names on BOTH sides of your GREEN families it would have saved a lot of searching and we may have found accurate information.
Marriage in NSW
8745/1911
GREEN John
DELBRIDGE Myra
Birth in NSW
8357/1894
DELBRIDGE Myra
Father James Mother Elizabeth
District Broken Hill
Death in Victoria
GREEN Myra
Father James Mother Elizabeth MOYLE
At Mildura 1971 78 years Reg#433
Interred at the same location at Broken Hill Cemetery
GREEN Myra Methodist 5 Jan 1971
GREEN John Methodist 20 Oct 1979
Birth
GREEN John
27 Jul 1889
Father George Thomas GREEN Mother Mary Elizabeth GIESECKE
At near Moonta Dal 441/329
Death
24870/1979
GREEN John
Father George Mother Elizabeth
His parents’ marriage [this couple are buried in the Broken Hill Cemetery – details on the thread]
GREEN George Thomas 25 years Status Single Father Benjamin GREEN
GIESECKE Mary Elizabeth 21 years Status Single Father Charles GIESECKE
28 Nov 1883
At All Saints Church Moonta Dal 137/798
They are your family but from your grandmother's GREEN family and you gave incorrect information about them as well.
Australian Electoral Roll
1930
GREEN John 606 Chapple Street, Broken Hill Labourer
GREEN Myra 606 Chapple Street, Broken Hill HD
Cando
Noticed a later post but will let this one go anyway.
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I wonder why the OP didn't have the courtesy to at least say thank you for our efforts when online tonight.
Cando
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Birth
His parents’ marriage [this couple are buried in the Broken Hill Cemetery – details on the thread]
GREEN George Thomas 25 years Status Single Father Benjamin GREEN
GIESECKE Mary Elizabeth 21 years Status Single Father Charles GIESECKE
28 Nov 1883
At All Saints Church Moonta Dal 137/798
They are your family but from your grandmother's GREEN family and you gave incorrect information about them as well.
So at last we have the meaning of-
Yes, a family member did die in a mining accident in the early 1900's. .
Sue
Sue
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sremmus has a public online tree but when viewed is actually private and appears to have much of the info anyway.
Summers / Hopkins & Green / Delbridge / Beven Family Tree
Cando
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I have no doubt that if you were to get a copy of the NSW marriage cert for George Thomas GREEN and Jessie GOUDIE he would tell you that he was a widower and that he was born in 1870 in Western Australia to John Edward GREEN and Mary CROWDY. Marriage certificates are also sometimes notated with the date of death of the previous spouse and the number of children born to them.
John Edward GREEN, formerly of Birkenhead, South Australia, died in Perth WA in 1903. He had a second relationship with Louisa COLE.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/204525173
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/37801654
John Edward GREEN was also born in WA and his parents George GREEN and Jane BEACHAM were amongst the first European settlers.
http://www.museum.wa.gov.au/welcomewalls/names/green-george
http://www.museum.wa.gov.au/welcomewalls/names/beacham-jane
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=142379774&PIpi=116773409
Debra :)
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That's interesting background Debra.
sremmus has a public online tree but when viewed is actually private and appears to have much of the info anyway.
Summers / Hopkins & Green / Delbridge / Beven Family Tree
Cando
Cando , On that family tree you mention by sremmus, are there any attached certificates or other actual documents supporting the research? As in Birth, death, marriage certificates?
Can you link it for me or give me a guideline to see it, please.
Sue
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Sue there are a number of public trees on a subscription only website. The tree mentioned is recorded as public but has been changed to private. On the results page for all the DELBRIDGE/GREEN/SUMMERS trees this particular tree shows John GREEN's details including his parents. There is another public tree with a photo of GWR GREEN nursing a Mark SUMMERS so it is obviously the correct tree. The SUMMERS/GREEN marriage is on NSW bdm registered at Broken Hill.
I have pm'd you some links.
Cando
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This might be the burial at Broken Hill for your grandfather
37414 GREEN George William Robert
Location Rose Garden ROSE 1. 1. 20
Date of Death 26-08-2003
Date of burial 3-7-2003
Sue
And his wife Elizabeth Gladys is interred at the same location
39693 Mrs E G GREEN 98 years Ashes
Rose Garden ROSE 1 1 20
Died 13 Aug 2014
Date of burial 3 Sep 2014
Cando
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From the Biographical Index of South Australians - I recommend all information be checked where possible. This appears to be submitted information.
GREEN Benjamin
Parents Richard and Mary nee ELDERKIN born 1 Nov 1810 Thurleigh BDF ENG and died 30 Aug 1896 Moonta SA
Arrived 1847 on the MARINER
Occupation Farmer, labourer
Lived Munno Para, Salisbury, Moonta
Religion Church of England and Methodist
Married 1/2 11 Oct 1831 Thurleigh BDF ENG Elizabeth nee WYOLDS born c1812 Thurleigh BDF ENG and died 10 Aug 1834
Children William 1832-1916
Married 2/2 29 Mar 1835 Thurleigh BDF ENG Hannah nee GARNER born 11 Sep 1819 Thurleigh BDF ENG and died 5 May 1907
Children Samuel 1836-1925, Mary Ann WEBS 1839-, John Garner 1841-, David 1843-1844, Elizabeth GILLETT 1845-1944, Henery 1848-1848, Jane RISKY 1849-1944, Anney GUNTER/MAN 1851-, Caroline 1852-1852, Caroline 1854-1855, Benjamin 1855-, Henry Daniel 1857-1943, George Thomas 1858-1910, Georgina 1860-1861
http://www.familyhistorysa.info/shipping/passengerlists.html
GREEN Benjamin, Hannah GARNER (2nd wife), Wm (←1st wife), (2nd→) Sam, My Ann, John Garner, Eliz arrived in SA 25 Sep 1847 aboard MARINER from London via Plymouth
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/SAShips1847.htm
1847 MARINER from London via Plymouth - Captain Rbt. Harland, arrived Port Adelaide on 25 Sep 1847 with 264 emigrants
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article34558165
The Advertiser 7 Sep 1896
DEATHS
GREEN—At his son-in-law's residence (J. Risby), Ryan-street, Moonta, Benjamin Green, aged 86 years 8 months, leaving a wife, 10 children, 63 grand and 87 great-grandchildren. A colonist of 49 years. Arrived in the ship Mariner.
Benjamin's burial record at Moonta Cemetery
http://www.coppercoast.sa.gov.au/page.aspx?u=1656&c=25128
and his wife Hannah
http://www.coppercoast.sa.gov.au/page.aspx?u=1656&c=26096
There is a headstone and a photograph is available for a small fee.
http://headstones.gravesecrets.net/moonta.html
Cando
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http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article43610559
The Register 30 Nov 1883
MARRIAGES
GREEN-GIESECKE-On the 28th November, at All Saints' Church, Moonta, by the Rev. J. Stuart Wayland, George Thomas, youngest son of Mr. Benjamin Green, of Scotty's Farm, near Moonta, to Mary Elizabeth, eldest daughter of Mr. Charles Giesecke, of Moonta.
From Biographical Index of South Australians
GIESEKE Charles born 1838 and died Sep 1917 Broken Hill NSW
Arrived 1852
Occupation Butcher Lived Kooringa
Married 18 Aug 1860 SA Elizabeth Ann nee HARRIS - Parent James
Children 3 sons and 3 daughters
Marriage
GIESKEQ Charles 21 years Status not recorded Father William GIESKEQ
HARRIS Elizabeth Ann 18 years Status not recorded Father James HARRIS
18 Aug 1860
At the residence of James Way, Kooringa Bur 43/363
Cando
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That's wonderful information for sremmus, Cando.
I'm sure sremmus will add all those precious details to her tree at the first opportunity. ;D
South Australian researching can be difficult without benefit of private resource material.
Thank you for the tips on locating the tree. I shall have a look
Sue
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At this stage I have traced parts of Elizabeth Gladys Green's family, my maternal grandmother back as far as 1655. Yes, she passed away last year at the age of 98 in August and her ashes were laid to rest with those of my grandfather (her husband) George William Robert Green (Bread Carter, Soldier, Business Owner and charitable worker).
I know a great deal about the Giesecke part of the family since their arrival in arrival in Australia as they have been good at taking photo's (some dating from 1800's) with notes written on the back and kept documents to pass on to future generations. Charles Giesecke did not actually use his real first and middle name, he didn't like it so rarely used it.
With the Green part of her family I have Benjamin's parent's Richard Green and Mary Elderkin and his first wife was Elizabeth Wylds. Benjamin and Elizabeth had a child William in 1832 and I have all twelve of Benjamin and Hannah Gardner's children.
I have also been able to easily follow the Delbridge and Moyle side of her family as we still have a lot to do with these relatives. I have folders of documentation from them as well (BDM/Ship Records).
With my grandfather George William Robert Green's family I am trying to find direct ancestors at the moment and will branch out to siblings and their descendants later but am grateful for any information people provide. I am putting the other information everyone has provided to the family to see reactions and I have applied to get copies of some certificates from BDM.
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With my grandfather George William Robert Green's family I am trying to find direct ancestors at the moment
The direct ancestors line we have provided goes like this-
His father was George Edward GREEN who married Caroline BEVAN in 1911.
The father of George Edward GREEN (above) was George Thomas GREEN and mother was Mary ROBB.
Dates for these events are in the thread, as well as the index numbers.
I am putting the other information everyone has provided to the family to see reactions and I have applied to get copies of some certificates from BDM.
Whatever you may mean by their reactions, I can only hope their opinions on the subject and recollections (or mis-recollections) do not cloud your view of the facts. ::)
Sue
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Through this site and other methods I have managed to fill in my grandfathers family as far back as Mary Robb's great grandparents but still only have George Thomas Green's father.
I am one of the few in the family who does not allow past stories to colour my view on the truth. I always investigate and put accurate information in front of them and explain the process it took to get it. They don't always like it but history is history. Try telling one side of the family that they have Jewish heritage and the other that they are aboriginal. There was a great deal of yelling and ancestral DNA does not lie. ;D
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A bit like when I had to tell my in-laws they were actually fourth cousins. ::)
They told me to stop looking after that!
But I am glad that you have acknowledged the efforts the kind people have gone to in looking up information on your behalf. :)
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Through this site and other methods I have managed to fill in my grandfathers family as far back as Mary Robb's great grandparents but still only have George Thomas Green's father.
sremuss
Did you miss this informative post by Debra, our super sleuth :)
I have no doubt that if you were to get a copy of the NSW marriage cert for George Thomas GREEN and Jessie GOUDIE he would tell you that he was a widower and that he was born in 1870 in Western Australia to John Edward GREEN and Mary CROWDY. Marriage certificates are also sometimes notated with the date of death of the previous spouse and the number of children born to them.
John Edward GREEN, formerly of Birkenhead, South Australia, died in Perth WA in 1903. He had a second relationship with Louisa COLE.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/204525173
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/37801654
John Edward GREEN was also born in WA and his parents George GREEN and Jane BEACHAM were amongst the first European settlers.
http://www.museum.wa.gov.au/welcomewalls/names/green-george
http://www.museum.wa.gov.au/welcomewalls/names/beacham-jane
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=142379774&PIpi=116773409
Debra :)
An online subscription website has many public trees for your Western Australian GREEN family.
Cando
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Try telling one side of the family .................... . There was a great deal of yelling and ancestral DNA does not lie. ;D
Sremmus,
Having a mixed genetic inheritance which includes that of our only true Australians, the Aboriginal people, is a source of pride for those fortunate enough to have it.
Likewise, the Jewish are among the most resilient, strong-minded and successful races in the world. Those with such a heritage must be the lucky ones.
Statements which reflect prejudice are not acceptable to the Rootschat group who themselves come from a wide diversity of culture and ethnicity.
Sue
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Through this site and other methods I have managed to fill in my grandfathers family as far back as Mary Robb's great grandparents but still only have George Thomas Green's father.
I am one of the few in the family who does not allow past stories to colour my view on the truth. I always investigate and put accurate information in front of them and explain the process it took to get it. They don't always like it but history is history. Try telling one side of the family that they have Jewish heritage and the other that they are aboriginal. There was a great deal of yelling and ancestral DNA does not lie. ;D
I have been involved in family history for over 50 years, and I have shared my research with many of my family members across those years, long before the internet and long before family history's popularity brought with it many factoidal myths and twaddle statements about how our earlier generations viewed their own unique family's history.
So, may I mention that I would be astonished if any of my NSW born ancestors (or their neighbours, workmates, fellow church attendees) would have thought any less of a person because of a Jewish heritage or an Aboriginal heritage.... And I well recall my grandparents who were born in the 1870s and 1880s... I am born and was raised in rural NSW, with several generations of ancestors who were also born and raised in the Western Land Division of NSW.
http://www.lpma.nsw.gov.au/crown_lands/western_region
Cheers, JM
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I am happy to say that I have no issues around my who or what I am culturally. I am a woman of Aboriginal, Irish, Scottish, English, Belarus Jewish heritage. How my family deal with that varies. Some have openly accepted the information about cultural heritage I have put forward, others have not and that issue is there's to work through because all I can do is give them the information to process. Not everyone is so open and accepting but it is nice to hear from those who are.
Oh, thank you Cando I did miss the post by Debra.