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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: sremmus on Sunday 06 September 15 08:13 BST (UK)

Title: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sremmus on Sunday 06 September 15 08:13 BST (UK)
I am looking for descendants of Mary Robb and George Thomas Green who can fill in the gaps. They are my maternal grandfathers, grandparents, so my great great grandparents. I have the birth information of my great grandfather which includes his parents names and that they were living near Port Adelaide in South Australia at the time of his birth but everything else is sketchy. I have been given information about their marriage but  not sure if its accurate. It states that their parents are David Robb and John Edward Green. There are several registered Mary Robb's who marry men by the name of Green, so you can see my confusion. I also cannot find birth records for either of them and was wondering if they were migrants. Anyway if you can help it would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green
Post by: pinefamily on Sunday 06 September 15 08:40 BST (UK)
Hi,
Can you give us some more information to work with please?
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 06 September 15 09:56 BST (UK)
The marriage was in 1890

1890 164/1051  GREEN  George  ROBB  Mary at  Port Adelaide

There are numerous reports in the news of the  day about one George Thomas GREEN, married man abducting a 16 year old girl and the subsequent trial and other "outcomes"
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/search?adv=y
Is this the correct man?

Sue 
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 06 September 15 23:38 BST (UK)
Perhaps this is the birth of your ancestor-

1890   GREEN George Edward
Parents George GREEN & Mary ROBB
Port Adelaide

It is possible this is the birth registration for the male child who was born as result of the "abduction" as mentioned in the news items.

It was common practice for the unplanned child of a single girl to be registered in the name of the girl's parents.  William was the name of the abducted girl's father.

1895   GOUDIE   Andrew Robert
William GOUDIE & Elizabeth CAMPBELL
Port Adelaide 

You may have more success with your inquiries, sremmus, if it was on the Australian board of Rootschat.

Sue
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green
Post by: Dundee on Monday 07 September 15 09:33 BST (UK)
Birth in NZ:

1895/11635
GOUDIE, Arthur George
Mother : Jessie
Father: Not named

"Green was subsequently arrested, and the two of them were brought back to Port Adelaide. She was confined of a male child, which died last Saturday night."

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/87168909

Arthur George GOUDIE
Age:    9 Weeks
Died:   30 Nov 1895
Port Adelaide
Mother: Jessie GOUDIE
Page Number:    256
Volume Number: 231

"Green, who followed the occupation of a ferryman, has a wife and child residing at Birkenhead"

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/161830631

The marriage certificate will show your George's occupation as well as witness names who may be relatives of the bride and groom.  The birth cert of George Edward will also show the father's occupation.  The two events only being a month apart I would expect that the occupations will be the same.

What happened to George Edward?  Did he marry, stay in SA?

Debra  :)


Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green
Post by: Dundee on Monday 07 September 15 09:59 BST (UK)
This marriage and death in NSW would have to be of interest:

3433/1900
GREEN, GEORGE T
GOUDIE, JESSIE
at BROKEN HILL

4470/1905
GREEN, GEORGE T
Father: JOHN E
Mother: MARY
at BROKEN HILL

GREEN - In loving remembrance of George Thomas Green, who died at the Broken Hill Hospital on May 23 1905. Inserted by his loving wife (Jessie) and children (George and Walter Green).

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/44500923

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: Dundee on Monday 07 September 15 10:56 BST (UK)
Mary GREEN
Age:    28
Died: 12 Jun 1899
Birkenhead
Registered: Port Adelaide, South Australia
Relative:  George GREEN (Husband)
Page #30
Volume #262

THE FRIENDS of Mr. G. GREEN are informed that the Funeral of his late WIFE (Mary) will leave the residence of her Father (Mr. D. Robb), Swigg-street, Birkenhead, on TUESDAY, at 2.30 p.m. for the Woodville Cemetery, W. F. DESLANDES, Undertaker.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/73220991

ROBB - THE FRIENDS of the late Mr. DAVID ROBB are respectfully informed that his Remains will be removed from his late residence, Swigg-street, Birkenhead, on TUESDAY, at 3.30 p.m. for interment in the Cheltenham Cemetery.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5608770

ROBB - On the 14th March, at Unley, Maria, beloved wife of late David Robb of Swigg street, Birkenhead. Aged 83. At rest.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/47544178

Birth in SA

5 May 1873
at Glanville
ROBBE, Maria
Father: David ROBBE
Mother: Maria HAYES
Registered Port Adelaide
122/111

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sparrett on Monday 07 September 15 11:06 BST (UK)
Hi Debra,
I do hope  sremmus comes online to see your helpful and intriguing  findings.

Well done!

I am clearly mistaken in my previous thoughts about the 1895 birth registration in the name GOUDIE. (Reply #3)

Sue
 
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sremmus on Monday 07 September 15 13:26 BST (UK)
Hi Everyone, thank you for all the replies. The information has been a great help. Mary Robb and  George Thomas Green married at Birkenhead, South Australia and moved to Broken Hill. Both of them are buried in Broken Hill. Mary's father David was born in Scotland and died at his home in Birkenhead South Australia. His wife Maria Hayes was born and died in South Australia. I have now been able to go back another three generations and finally filling in the gaps.  ;D
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: Dundee on Monday 07 September 15 13:34 BST (UK)
Mary ROBB did not die in Broken Hill.

Mary GREEN
Age:    28
Died: 12 Jun 1899
Birkenhead
Registered: Port Adelaide, South Australia
Relative:  George GREEN (Husband)
Page #30
Volume #262

THE FRIENDS of Mr. G. GREEN are informed that the Funeral of his late WIFE (Mary) will leave the residence of her Father (Mr. D. Robb), Swigg-street, Birkenhead, on TUESDAY, at 2.30 p.m. for the Woodville Cemetery, W. F. DESLANDES, Undertaker.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/73220991

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: Essie on Monday 07 September 15 14:32 BST (UK)
Mary GREEN
Age:    28
Died: 12 Jun 1899
Birkenhead
Registered: Port Adelaide, South Australia
Relative:  George GREEN (Husband)
Page #30
Volume #262

Birth in SA

5 May 1873
at Glanville
ROBBE, Maria
Father: David ROBBE
Mother: Maria HAYES
Registered Port Adelaide
122/111

Debra  :)


Maria ROBB born 5 May 1873 was aged 19 when she married Samuel Philip MCNEIL on 8 Jun 1892.
PtA / 171/929
This couple had children 1892, 1895 and 1899.

Mary ROBB c1871 appears to be the eldest child of David ROBB and Maria HAYES.
Mary was also aged 19 when she married George GREEN on 25 Sep 1890.
PtA / 164/1051


Essie
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sparrett on Monday 07 September 15 23:48 BST (UK)
After Georg e Thomas Green died, Jessie married again

4040/1907 EVERUSS   Alfred M
GREEN Jessie
At BROKEN HILL

She died in 1921
13856/1921  EVERUSS Jessie
Parents William & Elizabeth
At BROKEN HILL

They had children.
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search?0

She and her second husband are buried at Broken Hill Cemetery
http://www.bhcemetery.com.au/

Sue
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sremmus on Tuesday 08 September 15 00:04 BST (UK)
Hi All, after a discussion with my aunt I have discovered that there has always been confusion over the death of Mary Green (Robb) as she died suddenly and there is a headstone next to George in the Broken Hill cemetery. There is no proof that George is the person sited in the news article about a child abduction but I have a number of George Green's in my family so there could be a skeleton in someones cupboard. Mary gave birth to a child 12 months prior to her marriage to George but no father is listed. I have been told by family that she raised the child with George.

Dundee, the information you have given me has lined up with existing information I have but also filled in many gaps. Thank you.

I have also had a scanned document sent to me which tells a story of Charles Hayes and how he came to be in Australia. Charles Hayes is Mary Robb's maternal grandfather.

Finally it is all unfolding. I didn't get this much information any other ancestral site. Keep sending anything you have. 
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 08 September 15 00:10 BST (UK)
There is no proof that George is the person sited in the news article about a child abduction but I have a number of George Green's in my family so there could be a skeleton in someones cupboard.
I have also had a scanned document sent to me which tells a story of Charles Hayes and how he came to be in Australia. Charles Hayes is Mary Robb's maternal grandfather.

 

Do you think, then, it is just a co-incidence  ??? that very shortly after the death of his wife, Mary that one George Thomas GREEN married Jessie GOUDIE in Broken Hill?
George Thomas GREEN also being the name of the abductor of the young Jessie GOUDIE.



Sue
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 08 September 15 00:20 BST (UK)
1888   ROBB Mary
Father -NULL (=not listed)
Mother- Mary ROBB
At Port Adelaide

 Sue
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: Essie on Tuesday 08 September 15 01:25 BST (UK)
1888   ROBB Mary
Father -NULL (=not listed)
Mother- Mary ROBB
At Port Adelaide

 Sue
BIRTH DATE was 28 Oct 1888
PtA / 426/326

This infant died at Birkenhead
Mary ROBB
Date 12 Nov 1888 aged 2w
Mother was Mary ROBB
PtA  / 174/319

Essie
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: cando on Tuesday 08 September 15 04:56 BST (UK)
Quote
Hi All, after a discussion with my aunt I have discovered that there has always been confusion over the death of Mary Green (Robb) as she died suddenly and there is a headstone next to George in the Broken Hill cemetery.

Firstly the George Thomas GREEN and Mary Elizabeth GREEN buried together in the Broken Hill Cemetery couldn't possibly be your family.  Yes there is a headstone for this couple.  Perhaps the researcher should have read the inscription.

 This George T died in 1910 [not in 1905] in a mining accident aged 62 years and Mary E died in 1938 aged 75 years.

GREEN George Thomas
Anglican  N Grave#25  7 May 1910

GREEN Mary Elizabeth 
Anglican N Grave#25  16 Sep 1938

Deaths of the above couple - none of the parents names match.
4735/1910  GREEN  George T  Parents Benjamin and Anna  Broken Hill
19900/1938  GREEN    Mary Elizabeth Parents Carl Christian and Elizabeth Ann  Broken Hill

Yes your George Thomas GREEN is buried at Broken Hill but there is no headstone or Mary at the same site or nearby.

Interred at Broken Hill Cemetery -
GREEN  George T
Anglican Grave#27   24 May 1905 

Death
4470/1905
GREEN, George T  Parents John E [?Edward] Mother Mary   Broken Hill

Quote
There is no proof that George is the person sited in the news article about a child abduction but I have a number of George Green's in my family so there could be a skeleton in someones cupboard.
I have also had a scanned document sent to me which tells a story of Charles Hayes and how he came to be in Australia. Charles Hayes is Mary Robb's maternal grandfather.

Why not purchase a transcription of the 1900 marriage cert?  Costs AUD $20 and the transcript is emailed to you.
This certificate would give the groom's and bride's parents' names including the mothers' maiden names; ages, places of birth and occupation of the bride and groom and the groom's marital status.
Scroll down the page to the three approved transcription agents.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx

3433/1900     
GREEN George T     
GOUDIE Jessie
District Broken Hill

Who are you researching then......George Thomas GREEN or Mary ROBB?

What is the name of your maternal grandfathers, grandparents, so my great great grandparents. I have the birth information of my great grandfather which includes his parents names and that they were living near Port Adelaide in South Australia at the time of his birth but everything else is sketchy.

Quote
There are several registered Mary Robb's who marry men by the name of Green, so you can see my confusion.

Not in South Australia.  This is the ONLY GREEN/ROBB marriage in South Australia.

Marriage - and so we have some ages
GREEN George  20 years  Status Single  Father John Edward GREEN
ROBB Mary  19 years Status Single  Father David ROBB
25 Sep 1890
At St Paul, Port Adelaide  164/1057

Incidentally Mary's brothers also married at this church and the father was David ROBB of Birkenhead.  Have a search on TROVE for the notices.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper

Mary's burial at Cheltenham Cemetery aka Woodville Cemetery.
Mary GREEN Died on 15 Jun 1899 at 28 years of age.
Previously lived in Port Adelaide , SA.
The grave site has been re-developed.

You have lots of opportunities to validate research with some certificates eg these certificates would usually detail the father's age, place of birth and occupation.

Births
2012/1901    
GREEN Walter H
Father George Mother Jessie
South Broken Hill
    
30332/1902    
GREEN Alexander J   
Father George Mother Jessie
South Broken Hill

Death
1026/1903    
GREEN Alexander J   
Father George Mother Jessie
South Broken Hill

One of the many newspaper items mentioned that Jessie's father was William GOUDIE, a hairdresser and George Thomas GREEN was a ferryman.

Quote
After Georg e Thomas Green died, Jessie married again

4040/1907 EVERUSS   Alfred M
GREEN Jessie
At BROKEN HILL

She died in 1921
13856/1921  EVERUSS Jessie
Parents William & Elizabeth
At BROKEN HILL

Birth
GOUDIE Jessy
15 Feb 1879
Father William GOUDIE  Mother Elizabeth CAMPBELL
At Adelaide   Ade215/246

Other births to this couple were at Portland Estate [former name for Port Adelaide] and Port Adelaide.

Apologies for jumping all over the place with my reply.

I'm convinced that your George Thomas GREEN who married Mary ROBB, abducted Jessie GOUDIE and married her in Broken Hill where after George T's death in 1905 Jessie married again and died in 1921. ;)


Cando
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 08 September 15 05:40 BST (UK)
This of course is the death of your great grandfather.

27107/1962  GREEN George Edward
GEORGE Thomas & Mary
At BROKEN HILL

He is buried, as you would know at Broken Hill with one Carolyn GREEN.

Some In Memoriam placed in the Broken Hill for George  Thomas GREEN
were inserted by sons Walter and George, so it would seem that the two were in the same district from an early age.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/45030485
23 May 1908 death of Geo Thomas Green from sons George and Walter
"Barrier Miner"

Did Walter H. GREEN marry in Broken Hill?

4174/1921  GREEN Walter H
TROUGHTON Hilda A
At BROKEN HILL
 
Sue
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 08 September 15 05:53 BST (UK)
Here, for your interest, is a short obituaryfor the second husband of Jessie nee GOUDIE, Alfred Martin EVERUSS
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/46639863
 
Barrier Miner  Tuesday 2 February 1932

Sue
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 08 September 15 06:24 BST (UK)
So, it looks as if your great grandfather's half brother died in South Australia..

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/49244448

Death Notice for Walter Hector GREEN who died in South Australia in 1952

DEATHS 
GREEN. - On May 16, at his late residence, Briens Road, Northfield, Walter Hector, 
beloved husband of Hilda Agnes Green, loving father of (name) and (name) ........... Aged 51 years.


FUNERAL NOTICE
 
GREEN. - The FRIENDS of the late Mr. WALTER   HECTOR GREEN, are respectfully informed that his remains were interred in the Dudley Park Cemetery on May 19, at 2 p.m.

Barrier Miner  Tuesday 20 May 1952

Sue

Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: cando on Tuesday 08 September 15 06:33 BST (UK)
Here, for your interest, is a short obituaryfor the second husband of Jessie nee GOUDIE, Alfred Martin EVERUSS
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/46639863
 
Barrier Miner  Tuesday 2 February 1932

Sue

There is a headstone in the Broken Hill Cemetery for Alfred M.

Cando
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: cando on Tuesday 08 September 15 06:39 BST (UK)
Quote
FUNERAL NOTICE
 
GREEN. - The FRIENDS of the late Mr. WALTER   HECTOR GREEN, are respectfully informed that his remains were interred in the Dudley Park Cemetery on May 19, at 2 p.m.

There is a headstone.
GREEN
WALTER H 1952 AGE 51, HUSBAND OF HILDA

Walter H, 39 years and his son Walter G in a car accident in 1939
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article74427394

Cando
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sremmus on Thursday 24 September 15 11:46 BST (UK)
Both of my grandparents had the birth name Green and so Nan did not have to change her last name upon marriage. There are several George Thomas Green's in my grandmothers side of the family originating in South Australia and passing in Broken Hill. Yes, a family member did die in a mining accident in the early 1900's. The previous family historian has made a mess of collecting information sadly. I have asked some of the very elderly family members and they do not remember being told that George Thomas remarried.
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: majm on Friday 25 September 15 02:12 BST (UK)
NSW Electoral Roll 1903 BARRIER polling at Alma  (it is a local name for a section of Broken Hill) 
George Thomas GREEN of Wilson Street, miner
Jessie GREEN, of Wilson Street,  domestic duties

Cheers,  JM




Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: Dundee on Friday 25 September 15 02:36 BST (UK)
Mary gave birth to a child 12 months prior to her marriage to George but no father is listed. I have been told by family that she raised the child with George.


Clearly this is not true.


1888   ROBB Mary
Father -NULL (=not listed)
Mother- Mary ROBB
At Port Adelaide

 Sue
BIRTH DATE was 28 Oct 1888
PtA / 426/326

This infant died at Birkenhead
Mary ROBB
Date 12 Nov 1888 aged 2w
Mother was Mary ROBB
PtA  / 174/319

Essie

This of course is the death of your great grandfather.

27107/1962  GREEN George Edward
GEORGE Thomas & Mary
At BROKEN HILL

Some In Memoriam placed in the Broken Hill for George  Thomas GREEN
were inserted by sons Walter and George, so it would seem that the two were in the same district from an early age.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/45030485
23 May 1908 death of Geo Thomas Green from sons George and Walter
"Barrier Miner"

Sue

I have asked some of the very elderly family members and they do not remember being told that George Thomas remarried.

So these relatives have no knowledge or recollection of Walter who was the son of the George Thomas GREEN who died in 1908?

Debra  :)

Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: cando on Friday 25 September 15 02:38 BST (UK)
I am puzzled and confused ::)

You stated that George Thomas GREEN and Mary ROBB are your ancestors and we have assisted with much information about them.

However you now say The previous family historian has made a mess of collecting information so how do you know the very elderly family members' information is correct.

It would help us to help you if you would PLEASE post the names of your GREEN grandparents and in which state they married and we could progress from there

You should always research backwards from what you know to be correct. Surely you must know the names of your grandparents.

I can see two GREEN/GREEN marriages in South Australia and two in Broken Hill.

Cando
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: majm on Friday 25 September 15 02:45 BST (UK)
NSW ER 1913 STUART polling at Patton Street   (so this is also Broken Hill)

Alfred Martin EVERUSS, Wilson Street, labourer
Jessie EVERUSS, Wilson Street, domestic duties

Yes,  I too am becoming confuddled.  8)

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sparrett on Friday 25 September 15 05:06 BST (UK)
So this is the marriage is it not, of your great grandfather GREEN George E?

1041/1911 GREEN George E
BEVEN Caroline
At BROKEN HILL

This of course is the death of your great grandfather.

27107/1962  GREEN George Edward
GEORGE Thomas & Mary
At BROKEN HILL

He is buried, as you would know at Broken Hill with one Carolyn GREEN.

   
Sue

Here is one child to them, I will check for others.
2371/1912  GREEN George W
Parents George E & Caroline
At BROKEN HILL
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sparrett on Friday 25 September 15 05:12 BST (UK)
Both of my grandparents had the birth name Green and so Nan did not have to change her last name upon marriage. 



So here we have the marriage of the two people surnamed GREEN..
Is that correct?

 
21643/1935  GREEN George W R
GREEN (other) Name deleted as I have not yet located her death.
At BROKEN HILL

Sue
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sparrett on Friday 25 September 15 06:53 BST (UK)
So, it looks as if your great grandfather's half brother died in South Australia..

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/49244448

Death Notice for Walter Hector GREEN who died in South Australia in 1952

DEATHS 
GREEN. - On May 16, at his late residence, Briens Road, Northfield, Walter Hector, 
beloved husband of Hilda Agnes Green, loving father of (name) and (name) ........... Aged 51 years.


FUNERAL NOTICE
 
GREEN. - The FRIENDS of the late Mr. WALTER   HECTOR GREEN, are respectfully informed that his remains were interred in the Dudley Park Cemetery on May 19, at 2 p.m.

Barrier Miner  Tuesday 20 May 1952

Sue

I wondered whether you would like to know more about this very important part of your family, your great grandfather's half brother Walter Hector GREEN.

He had only one daughter and it was from her home his funeral departed

Funeral notice for Walter Hector Green in SA at home of his daughter Mrs COGDELL at Briens Rd Northfiled, SA in 1952
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/130277536

Her name was Ina Jessie  ;D COGDELL and she had married in about 1943.

Here is the engagement notice

ENGAGEMENTS GREEN/COGDELL.The engagement is announced of Ina J., only daughter of Mr. and Mrs. W. H. Green, of Southwark, to William Henry (A.I.F.), eldest son of Mr. and Mrs. H. C. Cogdell, of Torrensville.
The Advertiser   Friday 27 June 1941



There was at least one child and I can PM you a birth notice with details.

Ina Jessie COGDELL died. I cannot access further information here.

Advertiser   COGDELL   Ina Jesse.   Year 2007   
 

Sue


 
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: Essie on Friday 25 September 15 07:37 BST (UK)
Walter GREEN and George GREEN considered themselves brothers of the EVERUSS siblings.  The EVERUSS sons were the nephews and cousins of the GOUDIE family.


See funeral notices for Horace William EVERUSS
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/46555262?searchTerm="George GREEN"&searchLimits=l-state=New+South+Wales|||l-title=53|||l-decade=193|||l-category=Family+Notices


Essie
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sparrett on Friday 25 September 15 08:20 BST (UK)
This might be the burial at Broken Hill for your grandfather

37414 GREEN George William Robert
Location Rose Garden ROSE 1. 1. 20
Date of Death 26-08-2003
Date of burial 3-7-2003

Sue
   
 
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: cando on Friday 25 September 15 09:20 BST (UK)
Quote
I am looking for descendants of Mary Robb and George Thomas Green who can fill in the gaps. They are my maternal grandfathers, grandparents, so my great great grandparents

So your mother's grandfather's grandparents?  And your maternal great great grandparents?  Is that correct? 

Adding to Sue's info.....

Australian Electoral Roll
1933
GREEN Caroline  497 McGowan Street, North Broken Hill  HD
GREEN George Edward  497 McGowan Street, North Broken Hill  Miner
GREEN George William Robert 497 McGowan Street, North Broken Hill Bread carter

21643/1935     
GREEN    George W R    
GREEN    Elizabeth G    
District Broken Hill

1937
GREEN Caroline  497 McGowan Street, North Broken Hill  HD
GREEN Elizabeth Gladys  497 McGowan Street, North Broken Hill  HD
GREEN George Edward  497 McGowan Street, North Broken Hill  Miner
GREEN George William Robert 497 McGowan Street, North Broken Hill Bread carter

WW2 Service Summaries for George William Robert GREEN born 14 Feb 1912 Broken Hill  NOK Elizabeth
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=726907
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=694706

1943, 1949, 1954, 1958, 1963
GREEN Elizabeth Gladys  544 Lane Street  North Broken Hill  HD
GREEN George William Robert 544 Lane Street  North Broken Hill  Bread carter

1968
GREEN Elizabeth Gladys  544 Lane Street  Broken Hill  HD
GREEN George William Robert 544 Lane Street  Broken Hill Storekeeper

1972
GREEN Elizabeth Gladys 323 Kaolin Street, Broken Hill  Storekeeper
GREEN George William Robert 323 Kaolin Street Broken Hill Storekeeper

1980
GREEN Elizabeth Gladys  551 Lane Street, Broken Hill HD
GREEN George William Robert 551 Lane Street, Broken Hill Steward

Cando
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sparrett on Friday 25 September 15 09:25 BST (UK)
For your interest,
The wife of your grandfather was born in 1918 at Broken Hill.

Her parents appear to have had several children.
Sue
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: cando on Friday 25 September 15 09:28 BST (UK)
There is a headstone in the Broken Hill Cemetery for George Edward and his wife Caroline.  Photo available from this website
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~deadsearch/bkh_eg.htm

GREEN Caroline 1956 68 years, George 1962 71 years.

Cando
   

Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: cando on Friday 25 September 15 09:30 BST (UK)
Sue can you post the marriage of those parents as the OP may be tracing them :-\  I am so confused with the maternal grandparents....

Cando
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sparrett on Friday 25 September 15 09:43 BST (UK)
Sorry for being so circumspect.
Have PMed, Cando

There is a strong possibility this link will be of interest to our OP.

https://au.linkedin.com/in/cogdellconsulting

Sue
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: cando on Friday 25 September 15 09:59 BST (UK)
Thank you Sue :)

Cando
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: cando on Friday 25 September 15 10:21 BST (UK)
So, it looks as if your great grandfather's half brother died in South Australia..

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/49244448

Death Notice for Walter Hector GREEN who died in South Australia in 1952

DEATHS 
GREEN. - On May 16, at his late residence, Briens Road, Northfield, Walter Hector, 
beloved husband of Hilda Agnes Green, loving father of (name) and (name) ........... Aged 51 years.


FUNERAL NOTICE
 
GREEN. - The FRIENDS of the late Mr. WALTER   HECTOR GREEN, are respectfully informed that his remains were interred in the Dudley Park Cemetery on May 19, at 2 p.m.

Barrier Miner  Tuesday 20 May 1952

Sue

I wondered whether you would like to know more about this very important part of your family, your great grandfather's half brother Walter Hector GREEN.

He had only one daughter and it was from her home his funeral departed

Funeral notice for Walter Hector Green in SA at home of his daughter Mrs COGDELL at Briens Rd Northfiled, SA in 1952
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/130277536

Her name was Ina Jessie  ;D COGDELL and she had married in about 1943.

Here is the engagement notice

ENGAGEMENTS GREEN/COGDELL.The engagement is announced of Ina J., only daughter of Mr. and Mrs. W. H. Green, of Southwark, to William Henry (A.I.F.), eldest son of Mr. and Mrs. H. C. Cogdell, of Torrensville.
The Advertiser   Friday 27 June 1941



There was at least one child and I can PM you a birth notice with details.

Ina Jessie COGDELL died. I cannot access further information here.

Advertiser   COGDELL   Ina Jesse.   Year 2007   
 

Sue

Ina Jessie GREEN and her husband William Henry COGDELL are interred at Centennial Park Cemetery
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01g77/

Cando
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sparrett on Friday 25 September 15 12:39 BST (UK)
Hi sremmus,
I see you are choosing to close your thread now, and of course, this is another of the wonderful Rootschat options.

I, for one, hope you have gained a bit of a different view on your family's history and maybe even seen how old stories and factual evidence do not always tie up at all.

The group of helpers here can only offer skilfully researched and precise information from records, and you must take the next steps towards absolute validation.

 I, and others here, are quite certain the information we have found for you regarding Jessie GOUDIE and George Thomas GREEN relate to your forebears and no-one else.

Hope you will be online to chat again before a moderator removes the thread to archives  ;)

Sue

 
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: cando on Friday 25 September 15 12:40 BST (UK)
If you had started with your grandparents and great grandparents names on BOTH sides of your GREEN families it would have saved a lot of searching and we may have found accurate information.

Marriage in NSW
8745/1911 
GREEN John
DELBRIDGE Myra

Birth in NSW
8357/1894
DELBRIDGE Myra
Father James  Mother Elizabeth
District Broken Hill

Death in Victoria
GREEN Myra
Father James Mother Elizabeth MOYLE
At Mildura  1971  78 years  Reg#433

Interred at the same location at Broken Hill Cemetery
GREEN Myra  Methodist   5 Jan 1971
GREEN John   Methodist   20 Oct 1979

Birth
GREEN John
27 Jul 1889
Father George Thomas GREEN   Mother Mary Elizabeth GIESECKE
At near Moonta   Dal  441/329

Death
24870/1979
GREEN John
Father George  Mother Elizabeth

His parents’ marriage [this couple are buried in the Broken Hill Cemetery – details on the thread]
GREEN George Thomas  25 years  Status Single  Father Benjamin GREEN
GIESECKE Mary Elizabeth  21 years  Status Single  Father Charles GIESECKE
28 Nov 1883
At All Saints Church Moonta  Dal  137/798

They are your family but from your grandmother's GREEN family and you gave incorrect information about them as well.

Australian Electoral Roll
1930
GREEN John 606 Chapple Street, Broken Hill  Labourer
GREEN Myra 606 Chapple Street, Broken Hill  HD


Cando

Noticed a later post but will let this one go anyway.
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: cando on Friday 25 September 15 12:44 BST (UK)
I wonder why the OP didn't have the courtesy to at least say thank you for our efforts when online tonight.

Cando
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sparrett on Friday 25 September 15 12:56 BST (UK)
  Birth
 
  His parents’ marriage [this couple are buried in the Broken Hill Cemetery – details on the thread]
GREEN George Thomas  25 years  Status Single  Father Benjamin GREEN
GIESECKE Mary Elizabeth  21 years  Status Single  Father Charles GIESECKE
28 Nov 1883
At All Saints Church Moonta  Dal  137/798

They are your family but from your grandmother's GREEN family and you gave incorrect information about them as well.


 

So at last we have the meaning of-

  Yes, a family member did die in a mining accident in the early 1900's.  .

Sue

Sue
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: cando on Friday 25 September 15 13:01 BST (UK)
sremmus has a public online tree but when viewed is actually private and appears to have much of the info anyway.

Summers / Hopkins & Green / Delbridge / Beven Family Tree

Cando
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: Dundee on Friday 25 September 15 15:20 BST (UK)
I have no doubt that if you were to get a copy of the NSW marriage cert for George Thomas GREEN and Jessie GOUDIE he would tell you that he was a widower and that he was born in 1870 in Western Australia to John Edward GREEN and Mary CROWDY.  Marriage certificates are also sometimes notated with the date of death of the previous spouse and the number of children born to them.

John Edward GREEN, formerly of Birkenhead, South Australia, died in Perth WA in 1903.  He had a second relationship with Louisa COLE.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/204525173
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/37801654

John Edward GREEN was also born in WA and his parents George GREEN and Jane BEACHAM were amongst the first European settlers.

http://www.museum.wa.gov.au/welcomewalls/names/green-george
http://www.museum.wa.gov.au/welcomewalls/names/beacham-jane

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=142379774&PIpi=116773409

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 26 September 15 00:53 BST (UK)
That's interesting background Debra.

sremmus has a public online tree but when viewed is actually private and appears to have much of the info anyway.

Summers / Hopkins & Green / Delbridge / Beven Family Tree

Cando

Cando , On that family tree you mention by sremmus, are there any attached certificates or other actual documents supporting the research? As in Birth, death, marriage certificates?

Can you link it for me or give me a guideline to see it, please.

Sue

 
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: cando on Saturday 26 September 15 04:01 BST (UK)
Sue there are a number of public trees on a subscription only website.  The tree mentioned is recorded as public but has been changed to private.  On the results page for all the DELBRIDGE/GREEN/SUMMERS trees this particular tree shows John GREEN's details including his parents.  There is another public tree with a photo of GWR GREEN nursing a Mark SUMMERS so it is obviously the correct tree.  The SUMMERS/GREEN marriage is on NSW bdm registered at Broken Hill. 

I have pm'd you some links.



Cando
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: cando on Saturday 26 September 15 04:41 BST (UK)
This might be the burial at Broken Hill for your grandfather

37414 GREEN George William Robert
Location Rose Garden ROSE 1. 1. 20
Date of Death 26-08-2003
Date of burial 3-7-2003

Sue

And his wife Elizabeth Gladys is interred at the same location

39693    Mrs  E G  GREEN       98 years   Ashes   
Rose Garden    ROSE 1 1    20    
Died 13 Aug 2014
Date of burial 3 Sep 2014    

Cando
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: cando on Saturday 26 September 15 05:03 BST (UK)
From the Biographical Index of South Australians - I recommend all information be checked where possible.  This appears to be submitted information.

GREEN Benjamin
Parents Richard and Mary nee ELDERKIN born 1 Nov 1810 Thurleigh BDF ENG and died 30 Aug 1896 Moonta SA
Arrived 1847 on the MARINER
Occupation Farmer, labourer
Lived Munno Para, Salisbury, Moonta
Religion Church of England and Methodist
Married 1/2  11 Oct 1831 Thurleigh BDF ENG Elizabeth nee WYOLDS born c1812 Thurleigh BDF ENG and died  10 Aug 1834
Children William 1832-1916
Married 2/2 29 Mar 1835 Thurleigh BDF ENG Hannah nee GARNER born 11 Sep 1819 Thurleigh BDF ENG and died 5 May 1907
Children Samuel 1836-1925, Mary Ann WEBS 1839-, John Garner 1841-, David 1843-1844, Elizabeth GILLETT 1845-1944, Henery 1848-1848, Jane RISKY 1849-1944, Anney GUNTER/MAN 1851-, Caroline 1852-1852, Caroline 1854-1855, Benjamin 1855-, Henry Daniel 1857-1943, George Thomas 1858-1910, Georgina 1860-1861

http://www.familyhistorysa.info/shipping/passengerlists.html
GREEN Benjamin, Hannah GARNER (2nd wife), Wm (←1st wife), (2nd→) Sam, My Ann, John Garner, Eliz arrived in SA 25 Sep 1847 aboard MARINER from London via Plymouth

http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/SAShips1847.htm
1847 MARINER from London via Plymouth - Captain Rbt. Harland, arrived Port Adelaide on 25 Sep 1847 with 264 emigrants

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article34558165
The Advertiser 7 Sep 1896
DEATHS
GREEN—At his son-in-law's residence (J. Risby), Ryan-street, Moonta, Benjamin Green, aged 86 years 8 months, leaving a wife, 10 children, 63 grand and 87 great-grandchildren.  A colonist of 49 years. Arrived in the ship Mariner. 

Benjamin's burial record at Moonta Cemetery
http://www.coppercoast.sa.gov.au/page.aspx?u=1656&c=25128

and his wife Hannah
http://www.coppercoast.sa.gov.au/page.aspx?u=1656&c=26096

There is a headstone and a photograph is available for a small fee.
http://headstones.gravesecrets.net/moonta.html

Cando
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: cando on Saturday 26 September 15 05:26 BST (UK)
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article43610559

The Register   30 Nov 1883
MARRIAGES
GREEN-GIESECKE-On the 28th November, at All Saints' Church, Moonta, by the Rev. J. Stuart Wayland, George Thomas, youngest son of Mr. Benjamin Green, of Scotty's Farm, near Moonta, to Mary Elizabeth, eldest daughter of Mr. Charles Giesecke, of Moonta.

From Biographical Index of South Australians

GIESEKE Charles born 1838 and died Sep 1917 Broken Hill NSW
Arrived 1852
Occupation Butcher  Lived Kooringa
Married 18 Aug 1860 SA Elizabeth Ann nee HARRIS - Parent James
Children 3 sons and 3 daughters

Marriage
GIESKEQ Charles  21 years  Status not recorded  Father William GIESKEQ
HARRIS Elizabeth Ann  18 years  Status not recorded Father James HARRIS
18 Aug 1860
At the residence of James Way, Kooringa   Bur 43/363



Cando
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 26 September 15 05:48 BST (UK)
That's wonderful information for sremmus, Cando.

I'm sure sremmus will add  all those precious details to her tree at the first opportunity. ;D

South Australian researching  can be difficult without benefit of private resource material.

Thank you for the tips on locating the tree.  I shall have a  look 

Sue
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sremmus on Saturday 26 September 15 08:12 BST (UK)
At this stage I have traced parts of Elizabeth Gladys Green's family, my maternal grandmother back as far as 1655. Yes, she passed away last year at the age of 98 in August and her ashes were laid to rest with those of my grandfather (her husband) George William Robert Green (Bread Carter, Soldier, Business Owner and charitable worker).

 I know a great deal about the Giesecke part of the family since their arrival in arrival in Australia as they have been good at taking photo's (some dating from 1800's) with notes written on the back and kept documents to pass on to future generations. Charles Giesecke did not actually use his real first and middle name, he didn't like it so rarely used it.

With the Green part of her family I have Benjamin's parent's Richard Green and Mary Elderkin and his first wife was Elizabeth Wylds. Benjamin and Elizabeth had a child William in 1832 and I have all twelve of Benjamin and Hannah Gardner's children.

I have also been able to easily follow the Delbridge and Moyle side of her family as we still have a lot to do with these relatives. I have folders of documentation from them as well (BDM/Ship Records).

With my grandfather George William Robert Green's family I am trying to find direct ancestors at the moment and will branch out to siblings and their descendants later but am grateful for any information people provide. I am putting the other information everyone has provided to the family to see reactions and I have applied to get copies of some certificates from BDM.
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 26 September 15 09:02 BST (UK)
With my grandfather George William Robert Green's family I am trying to find direct ancestors at the moment 

The direct ancestors line we have provided goes like this-

His father was George Edward GREEN who married Caroline BEVAN in 1911.
The father of George Edward GREEN (above) was George Thomas GREEN  and mother was Mary ROBB.

Dates for these events are in the thread, as well as the index numbers.


I am putting the other information everyone has provided to the family to see reactions and I have applied to get copies of some certificates from BDM.

Whatever you may mean by their reactions, I can only hope their opinions on the subject and recollections  (or mis-recollections) do not cloud your view of the facts. ::)


 Sue
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sremmus on Saturday 26 September 15 14:57 BST (UK)
Through this site and other methods I have managed to fill in my grandfathers family as far back as Mary Robb's great grandparents but still only have George Thomas Green's father.

I am one of the few in the family who does not allow past stories to colour my view on the truth. I always investigate and put accurate information in front of them and explain the process it took to get it. They don't always like it but history is history. Try telling one side of the family that they have Jewish heritage and the other that they are aboriginal. There was a great deal of yelling and ancestral DNA does not lie. ;D
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: pinefamily on Saturday 26 September 15 23:24 BST (UK)
A bit like when I had to tell my in-laws they were actually fourth cousins.  ::)
They told me to stop looking after that!

But I am glad that you have acknowledged the efforts the kind people have gone to in looking up information on your behalf.  :)
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: cando on Sunday 27 September 15 00:27 BST (UK)
Quote
Through this site and other methods I have managed to fill in my grandfathers family as far back as Mary Robb's great grandparents but still only have George Thomas Green's father.
sremuss


Did you miss this informative post by Debra, our super sleuth :)


I have no doubt that if you were to get a copy of the NSW marriage cert for George Thomas GREEN and Jessie GOUDIE he would tell you that he was a widower and that he was born in 1870 in Western Australia to John Edward GREEN and Mary CROWDY.  Marriage certificates are also sometimes notated with the date of death of the previous spouse and the number of children born to them.

John Edward GREEN, formerly of Birkenhead, South Australia, died in Perth WA in 1903.  He had a second relationship with Louisa COLE.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/204525173
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/37801654

John Edward GREEN was also born in WA and his parents George GREEN and Jane BEACHAM were amongst the first European settlers.

http://www.museum.wa.gov.au/welcomewalls/names/green-george
http://www.museum.wa.gov.au/welcomewalls/names/beacham-jane

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=142379774&PIpi=116773409

Debra  :)

An online subscription website has many public trees for your Western Australian GREEN family.

Cando
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 27 September 15 00:56 BST (UK)
Try telling one side of the family .................... . There was a great deal of yelling and ancestral DNA does not lie. ;D

Sremmus,
Having a mixed  genetic inheritance which includes that of our only true Australians, the Aboriginal people, is a  source of pride for those fortunate enough to have it.

Likewise, the Jewish are among the most resilient, strong-minded and successful races in the world. Those with such a heritage must be the lucky ones.

Statements which reflect prejudice  are not acceptable to the Rootschat group who themselves come from a wide diversity of culture and ethnicity.

Sue

Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: majm on Sunday 27 September 15 01:56 BST (UK)
Through this site and other methods I have managed to fill in my grandfathers family as far back as Mary Robb's great grandparents but still only have George Thomas Green's father.

I am one of the few in the family who does not allow past stories to colour my view on the truth. I always investigate and put accurate information in front of them and explain the process it took to get it. They don't always like it but history is history. Try telling one side of the family that they have Jewish heritage and the other that they are aboriginal. There was a great deal of yelling and ancestral DNA does not lie. ;D

I have been involved in family history for over 50 years, and I have shared my research with many of my family members across those years, long before the internet and long before family history's popularity brought with it many factoidal myths and twaddle statements about how our earlier generations viewed their own unique family's history.

So, may I mention that I would be astonished if any of my NSW born ancestors (or their neighbours, workmates, fellow church attendees) would have thought any less of a person because of a Jewish heritage or an Aboriginal heritage.... And I well recall my grandparents who were born in the 1870s and 1880s...  I am born and was raised in rural NSW, with several generations of ancestors who were also born and raised in the Western Land Division of NSW. 

http://www.lpma.nsw.gov.au/crown_lands/western_region

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Mary Robb and George Thomas Green South Australia
Post by: sremmus on Sunday 27 September 15 10:45 BST (UK)
I am happy to say that I have no issues around my who or what I am culturally. I am a woman of Aboriginal, Irish, Scottish, English, Belarus Jewish heritage. How my family deal with that varies. Some have openly accepted the information about cultural heritage I have put forward, others have not and that issue is there's to work through because all I can do is give them the information to process. Not everyone is so open and accepting but it is nice to hear from those who are.

Oh, thank you Cando I did miss the post by Debra.