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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: LaraG on Saturday 05 September 15 00:28 BST (UK)
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Maria Felix I have her parents as John Felix and Mary Love. Would like to find out more about her parents or any info regarding her. I have all her children's info. Thanks in advance
Spouse Name:
Thomas Simpson
Marriage Date:
11 Apr 1873
Marriage Place:
Queensland
Registration Place:
Queensland
Registration Year:
1873
Registration Number:
B003917
Page Number:
4609
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You appear to have taken the information from a subscription only website as the Qld BDM does not give the actual date of the event or a page number. The B indicates the marriage and death occurred in the Brisbane area. The marriage certificate would give Maria's age, place of birth, parents' names and father's occupation. Information on death certificates is often inaccurate.
https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/IndexSearch/BirIndexQry.m
1873/B3917
SIMPSON Thomas
FELIX Maria
and from the same website
1938/B39396
SIMPSON Maria
Father John FELIX Mother Mary LOVE
I note there is a birth in Qld in 1860 for an Emma FELIX with parents John and Hannah LOVE. May be simply a co-incidence of surnames.
Deaths
1862/B843 FELIX John aged 50 years
1893/C733 FELIX Hannah
Couple of mentions on TROVE in 1862 for a John FELIX in court in Brisbane for drunkenness and disorderly conduct.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper
Cando
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Thanks for the reply, I did have the marriage from Queensland BDM, but just found the actual date on Ancestry.
I have been wondering if John Felix was born in Aus or came from England. Mary Love also.
Were they transported.
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http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article3558486
The Brisbane Courier 7 Apr 1893
FELIX.-On the 9th April, at the residence of her son-in-law, Charles Adsett, blacksmith, Whiteside, North Pine, Hannah Felix, mother of the late Alfred Sands, painter, also John L. Sands, contractor, of this city, aged 70 years.
Death
1946/ B5147
ADSETT Margaret
Father John FELIX Hannah LOVE
FELIX is not a commonly occurring name on the Qld indexes. Perhaps have a trawl through the bdm's.
Cando
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Thanks for the reply, I did have the marriage from Queensland BDM, but just found the actual date on Ancestry.
I have been wondering if John Felix was born in Aus or came from England. Mary Love also.
Were they transported.
You could purchase the death certs online and hopefully the information is accurate.
Why do you think they were transported to Australia ::)
Cando
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Years ago I found people of that name that were transported.
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Looks like Hannah/Mary had a relationship with a Thomas SANDS
Death
1891/B24661
SANDS Alfred
Father Thomas Hannah LOVE
Years ago I found people of that name that were transported.
Do you have all those details?
Cando
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A quick search however if John's age of 50 years in 1862 is correct he would be only 7 years in 1819. I don't have the time to help you further today and I am more Vic and SA centric anyway. We have some excellent NSW and Qld researchers who may be able to help you further.
http://colsec.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/colsec/f/F19c_fa-fle-05.htm
FELIX, John. Per "Grenada", 1819
1819 Oct 30 On list of convicts disembarked from the "Grenada" and forwarded to Emu Plains for distribution (Reel 6007; 4/3501 p.4)
1824 Feb 3 On return of convicts discharged from the Establishment, Emu Plains; ticket of leave (Reel 6028; 2/8283 p.185)
1824 Oct 1 Affidavit re loss of his ticket of leave (Reel 6027; 4/1716.1 p.198)
Possibly his death in 1838
NSW
2283/1838 V18382283 22
FELIX John
Cando
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The daughter of Maria Felix and Thomas Simpson I have been researching is Ada born 10 Nov 1878 died 13 October 1902. Married Herman Richardson (my GGrandfather)
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Thanks for your help Cando
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Do you have any certificates at all?
Cheers :)
Cando
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I have Ada and Hermans marriage cert. They had 2 children Violet and Leslie, he died just after his mother and Herman came to New Zealand before 1905 when he married again. Violet also came to NZ but I have been unable to find their passage over here.
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Looks like Hannah/Mary had a relationship with a Thomas SANDS
Death
1891/B24661
SANDS Alfred
Father Thomas Hannah LOVE
Cando
Here is the English marriage of one Hannah LOVE to Thomas SANDS
Marriages Mar 1/4 1842
LOVE Hannah
SANDS Thomas
Kensington 3/199
Sue
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Hannah SANDS, a widow, arrived in Qld in 1849 per 'Chaseley'.
Qld Assisted Immigrants (6 18474 Z1957 M1696)
With her were Thomas SANDS, aged 60
Sarah SANDS aged 52, Carpenter
John SANDS 21, Carpenter
Caroline SANDS 27, Dom Servant
Alfred SANDS 2 1/2 years
John SANDS infant
All were born in Sussex.
Sue
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Not sure how Hannah fits in, but worth looking at.
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It appears
Hannah SANDS nee LOVE then married Patrick CONDON in Queensland in 1854 BM373.
Modified to add
(This must have been a late rego as newspaper article has they were married in 1850)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/3712491?searchTerm="condon"&searchLimits=exactPhrase=condon (http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/3712491?searchTerm="condon"&searchLimits=exactPhrase=condon)
Hannah CONDON formerly SANDS nee LOVE married John FELIX in 1860. 1854
This newspaper article for the death of Thomas Lewis SANDS tells how the SANDS family come to Queensland.http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/23150882?searchTerm="john lewis sands" (http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/23150882?searchTerm="john lewis sands")
So keeping in mind that Maria FELIX was ba 1854 her mother would not may not have been the above Hannah LOVE. Hannah may have been her step mother.
Cheers Leonie
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So maybe Mary and Hannah were sisters in law?
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Hannah and Mary may have been sisters then?
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I note there is a birth in Qld in 1860 for an Emma FELIX with parents John and Hannah LOVE. May be simply a co-incidence of surnames.
Death
1914/B19672
MORGAN Emma
Father John FELIX Mother Hannah LOVE
The marriage certificate would give Maria's age, place of birth, parents' names and father's occupation. Information on death certificates is often inaccurate.
https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/IndexSearch/BirIndexQry.m
1873/B3917
SIMPSON Thomas
FELIX Maria
Cando
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Hannah CONDON formerly SANDS nee LOVE married John FELIX in 1860.
Cheers Leonie
Index shows-
1854 BM773John FELIX
Hannah CONDON
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Marriage cert looks the way to go then
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Sorry my mistake will correct my post. :-[
Was looking at records on another paid site as well as the Queensland BMD.
Yes Hannah CONDON married John FELIX in 1854.
Still strange that In Hannah FELIXs death notice that daughter Maria is not mentioned.
I agree best to get the marriage cert for Maria FELIX and Thomas SIMPSON.
Cheers Leonie
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Husband John not mentioned in death notice either. Think I will do a bit of research into Mary Felix death and then look for Hannah and Mary Love in UK
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Still strange that In Hannah FELIXs death notice that daughter Maria is not mentioned.
And neither are her daughters Emma MORGAN or Margaret ADSETT.
I would suggest that the notice was placed by her son John L SANDS.
Cando
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So is Mary and Hannah the same person. I can't find a marriage for a Mary to John Felix. I now can't find Maria's birth on Queensland BDM
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Married at the Parish Church, Parish of Paddington, Middlesex after Banns
7 Feb 1842
Thomas SANDS, full age, bachelor, carpenter, of Star Street; Father Thomas SANDS, Carpenter
Hannah LOVE, full age, spinster, of ?Bouverie Street; Father Richard LOVE, Blacksmith
Witness - John LAMONT and Caroline LOVE [she signed with a X]
Cando
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So is Mary and Hannah the same person. I can't find a marriage for a Mary to John Felix. I now can't find Maria's birth on Queensland BDM
Hannah CONDON formerly SANDS nee LOVE married John FELIX in 1854.
Cando
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So Maria was born in 1854 same year as marriage of John Felix to Hannah. Can you find Maria's birth as I can't anymore.?
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To save me explaining about civil registration it would be better if you read some of the info on the net including this one http://www.judywebster.com.au/tips-qld.html
How do you know Maria was born 1854? Info on death certificates is not always accurate. Better to have the marriage certificate as the information was given by her not a third party.
Cando
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So Maria was born in 1854 same year as marriage of John Felix to Hannah. Can you find Maria's birth as I can't anymore.?
And the same year as Hannah's marriage to Patrick CONDON.
Sue
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Death
1854 BBU419 Patrick Condon -
- Buried 21/01/1850
Something is wrong with the dates here ??? ::)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/3715700
Moreton Bay Courier 26th Jan 1850
This man Patrick CONDON died in Brisbane having married only days prior.
Sue
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Here is a marriage notice for Patrick and Hannah
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/3712491
The Moreton Bay Courier Saturday 5 January 1850
It confirms the correct date of the marriage and also confirms the death of the Patrick CONDON which I have given is the likely correct man.
Sue
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We are searching for events pre civil registration. There are many opportunities for transcription errors to occur eg dates of events etc.
Cando
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Sue the Inquest is not on the page linked but the next page - page 3
INQUEST.-An inquest was held at the hospital on Monday last, on the body of Patrick Condon, who had died on the previous night from injuiies received on the 11th instant, while riding a horse at a race in North Brisbane, as reported in this journal. Dr. Cannan, having made a post mortem examination, reported that he had found the right temporal bone severely fractured, and that death had resulted from that injury. The persons who saw the accident having been examined, the jury gave a verdict of "Accidental Death." Considering the extent of the injury, it was remarkable that the unfortunate man survived so long. We regret to add that he had only been married a few days previous to the accident.
Cando
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John FELIX 10/- is named as a subscriber towards the building of a Wesleyan Chapel in 1858.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article3716794
Cando
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Sue the Inquest is not on the page linked but the next page - page 3
Cando
Well, I don't know why my screen on the link shows page 2 in the page box using the link I have given.
There are some other items in the days before he died saying that they were all hopeful of a recovery .
Poor Hannah, What a start to life in Australia!
Sue
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Thank you ladies. I will send away for Maria's Marriage cert. Heaven know who or what her parents names are
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J FELIX has 2 roods of land at Warwick in 1857. 2 roods = ½ acre. Notice that the title was ready for delivery.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article3719954
Cando
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Possibly neither or either of these births for the mother of Maria ;)
https://familysearch.org/
Hannah LOVE
England Births and Christenings
Christening Date 21 Aug 1825
Christening Place St. Nicholas', Brighton, Sussex, England
Father's Name Richard LOVE
Mother's Name Harriet LOVE
(Reference item 1 p 2; FHL microfilm 1,468,819.)
Name Mary LOVE
Christening Date 22 Feb 1823
Christening Place Leominster, Sussex, England
Father's Name Richard LOVE
Mother's Name Mary
(Reference item 2-3 263; FHL microfilm 1,041,551.)
Sue
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Are we thinking Hannah and Mary are the same person or sisters
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https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/IndexSearch/queryEntry.m?type=births
Thank you ladies. I will send away for Maria's Marriage cert. Heaven know who or what her parents names are
No "sending away" required.
Type in your cr. card number ;D
Sue
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That's what I meant Sue. Thank you for your help. What is a rood of land?
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That's what I meant Sue. Thank you for your help. What is a rood of land?
Refer to Reply#37
Sue
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See that, Thanks Sue. I think I will send away for Hannah and John Felix marriage also. Maybe then I will find out the truth.
Thanks once again Cando and Sue
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we are always interested to hear the outcome of certificate purchases with all the details.
Please let us know if our directions and findings were right ;D
Sue
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:D
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Just a quick question. Is a certificate better or image. Haven't had an Aussie one for years and didn't get a choice then.
Thanks in advance
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Image is better, as it is an image of the register :)
You can use your plastic card and download it direct to your computer.
If there's handwriting on it that is hard to decipher, you can always rely on RChatters to help decipher those words.... :)
Cheers, JM
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Thanks will go with image then
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Here is a marriage notice for Patrick and Hannah
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/3712491
The Moreton Bay Courier Saturday 5 January 1850
It confirms the correct date of the marriage and also confirms the death of the Patrick CONDON which I have given is the likely correct man.
Sue
We regret to add that he had only been married a few days previous to the accident.
Cando
John FELIX 10/- is named as a subscriber towards the building of a Wesleyan Chapel in 1858.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article3716794
Cando
Just some observations on marriage dates.
QLD BDM online index
1854
BM373
Patrick Dundon CONDON
- SANDS
NSW BDM online index
1849
# 316
Volume 96
CONDON, PATRICK D
- SANDS
Roman Catholic, Brisbane (QLD)
1849
# 318
Volume 98
CONDON, PATRICK D
- SANDS
Roman Catholic, Singleton (inc. New England), St Augustine's, Co. Northumberland
Volume 96
Microfilm Reel 5038
110-end (765)
Marriages 1849-1850
Roman Catholic
Volume 98
Microfilm Reel 5038
1-184
Marriages 1852
Roman Catholic
The date of marriage on all of the above entries is 31 December 1849 and is confirmed by the newspaper announcement. The 'few days' between marriage and death is a bit of an exaggeration.
QLD BDM online index
1854
BM773
John FELIX
Hannah CONDON
NSW BDM online index
1860
# 67
Volume 85
FELIX, JOHN
CONDON, HANNAH
Wesleyan Methodist
Brisbane; Co. Stanley; Ipswich; Moreton Bay (QLD)
Volume 85
Microfilm Number 5033
1-end (485)
Marriages 1850-1855
Methodist (Wesleyan)
The Qld entry is showing a marriage date of 10 June 1850, the NSW is 10 June 1860. Because the volume number covers marriages from 1850 to 1855 I think we can safely say that the correct year is 1850 and the NSW index entry is a transcription error.
I think the various references to the years 1852 and 1854 on both marriages is possibly just derived from which actual register the marriage was entered into and then used for the indexing.
Debra :)
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If the approximate birth year for Maria is correct and she was the daughter of John and Hannah then I would expect to find her baptism in one of these:
Vol. 55 Reel 5020 (+ 404-end) Baptisms 1846-1850 Methodist (Wesleyan)
Vol. 56 Reel 5020 (1-end) Baptisms 1851-1855 Methodist (Wesleyan)
+ Some pages have been inadvertently missed in filming while for others the filmed image is very faint. These pages have been copied and are available at State Records at COD 434 and 435 (2 sets); they have also been filmed onto Reel 5048 (see Appendix).
Appendix
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-4/appendix-1/appendix#Appendix
Debra :)
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The Qld entry is showing a marriage date of 10 June 1850, the NSW is 10 June 1860. Because the volume number covers marriages from 1850 to 1855 I think we can safely say that the correct year is 1850 and the NSW index entry is a transcription error.
I think the various references to the years 1852 and 1854 on both marriages is possibly just derived from which actual register the marriage was entered into and then used for the indexing.
Debra :)
Yes, I agree, the NSW index entry is likely a transcription error. NSW BDM handed over copies of the images from their Early Church Records, and Qld BDM prepared their own index. Also, NSW BDM index was initially prepared in 1930s from the original records, which may well have been well worn, thumb marked, torn corners, ink bled through and otherwise difficult to read and therefore difficult to transcribe.
Well found Debra.
Cheers, JM
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Thank you
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Right here we go.
The first Image (very clear) John Felix married Hannah Condon 10 June 1850 Wesleyans Morton Bay
John Felix of Town Maria. to Hannah Condon of North Brisbane in the presence of William Frazer, Elizabeth Frazer. married by William Lightbody. No more information
Second image also very clear
Married at the residence of Mrs Felix Terrace Street, Fortitude Valley
11 April 1873 Thomas Simpson Batchelor Born Great Grimbaly Lincolnshire England Labourer 22 years Address Fortitude Valley F James Simpson M Hannah Tillation. Fathers occ builder.
to Maria Felix Spinster Brisbane Queensland, Domestic Servant 19 years address Terrace Street Fortitude Valley F John Felix, M Hannah Love Fathers Ocp Couper. In presence of Hannah Felix and Alfred Sands Married according to the rites of the Baptist Church by John Kingsford.
So well done ladies or gents we have a match so yes Maria was born 1854. so need to find her birth now.
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Hi LaraG
That is very good news and you are lucky the image is so clear meaning no ifs and maybes!
You now have Maria's mother's background all well-defined ;D
Sue
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I was amazed it was so clear only one word I couldn't make out and that was the Baptist church looks like Particular.
I have been able to now look at UK census records and found Thomas Simpsons family and them going to Aus.
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Great to get a new lead so your family network can be extended even further.
;D
Sue
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Wow. Just got Maria Simpsons death image and she outlived 7 of her 9 children . How hard would that be
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Have now found out about Hannah Love and Maria Felix (marriages and deaths) and death of John Felix.
Hannah's death image had no information about her at all apart from where she lived and died and what of. Maria's was a lot better, naming living children 2 out of 9. John Felix also didn't have much information no parents, no birth place and luckly all there children so that was a bonus.
Patrick Dundon Condon who died 11 days after his marriage also had no birthplace or age that I can find (didn't get his death image) but interesting that Hannah married Thomas Sands he died a few days before the family left for Australia in 1849, she married Patrick Cobdon 31 Dec 1849 a couple of months later, he died and she married John Felix on the 10 June 1850.
Amazing family so many deaths in such a short time, children dying in late teens and early adult hood, so now I will have to find John Felix and Patrick Condon arriving in Australia, I still think they may have been transported.
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Hi Lara
If you are looking for further contribution from the Rootschat helpers, you will need to "cancel" the green tick next to your thread title. This is informing a moderator that you wish to close the thread and so it will be removed to archives.
To advance the search, if that is what you want to do, you should take time to meticulously type up each of your newly acquired certificates and post. Paraphrasing is not nearly as helpful.
Sue
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Thanks for the information about this site sparrett. I am finished just wanted to fill in the missing links for anyone interested. Rootschat is a great site and thanks for all the help.