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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: Scottleneveu on Thursday 03 September 15 19:10 BST (UK)
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Hello all,
Is there any way that I could somehow look up a census record to try and see if somebody was in a certain place at a certain time? I hope that makes sense? ???
The person I question is Joseph Ernest Varley who was born 1901 in Barnsley. I want to somehow try and find out where he was around 1946 if that's at all possible? I'm wondering if he was around the Great Yarmouth area in Norfolk...
Any information would be greatly appreciated :)
I hope to hear from you,
Scott
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Not sure if this helps but it looks this is his death notice and he's still in Barnsley ???
Joseph Ernest Varley (DoB 17 Jun 1901)
Death: Oct-Nov-Dec 1984
Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Volume 3 Page 70
Sorry :(
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Hello,
It was very helpful, thank you so much :)
I wasn't aware that he went back to Barnsley. I know he was in Gt Yarmouth for a while but I'm not sure when he would've returned home.
Thank you for your reply though :)
All the best,
Scott
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Hello,
Did anybody ever find out the names of Joseph Varleys parents? I'm going to buy a copy of his birth certificate at some point, but I'd like to hear from from anybody that knows anything
Molly
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Have you looked for him in 1911?
We are not allowed to do look ups for you, but you might find him with his parents, aged 9 as his birthday is after the census.
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Hello Lizdb,
I don't know if Scott has but it's not something that I've done personally. Is this something that you can check online yourself? ???
Molly
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Yes - available on some subscription sites. You may need to buy a few credits therefore. Or take a free trial (but remember to cancel before it becomes a paying subscription)
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Here is some more details plus the 1911 census (Deleted , copyright.)
Joseph Ernest Varley born 17 Jun 1901, Hoyland, Barnsley, died Oct-Dec 1984 Barnsley.
Married Louisa N Underwood in Oct-Dec 1928 in Great Yarmouth.
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Hello Jaysholme,
Thank you for your link it was very helpful.
Possible marriage to Olive 1891 Rotherham?
Possible death for Richard Varley 1942 Rotherham?
Possible death for Olive 1936 Barnsley?
For anybody else interested :)
Molly
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1911 census details
Moderator comment: Details removed. Rootschat policy with regards to the 1911 census has not changed
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=355486.0
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Richard & Olive's marriage
At Wath on Dearne PC on October 11th 1891 Richard Varley, labourer married Olive Sayles. He was 25 and she 23. They both single and resided in Hoyland. Their fathers were Thomas Varley, clogmaker and George Sayles, farmer deceased. Witnesses were Charles Sayles (signed) and Sarah Carneley Sayles (X)
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I think Richard was living with his married daughter in Hoyland in 1939. The daughter in question was Eliza May b 1/5/1895, d June 1976 and she married Jul-Sep 1923 William Cass b 11/9/1898, d June 1976.
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Thank you for this info :)
Was Olive the dau of George Sayles and Harriett Peaker?
Was Richard possibly the son of Thomas Varley and Susannah something? Married 1866 in Rotherham?
Molly
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Thomas & Susannah marriage:
On June 25th 1866 at Wath-on-Dearne PC, Thomas Varley of Hoyland, 22 bachelor, boot maker? married Susannah Lindley of Hoyland, 19 spinster. Their fathers were Richard Varley, cabinet maker and John Lindley, miner. Thomas signed and Susannah made her mark (X). The witnesses were Sam Smith (signed) and Sarah Ann Smith (X)
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I can only find one person matching Susannah on Freebmd.
Susannah Linley (different spelling) born 1847 Ecclesfield. I wonder if this is her? ???
Molly
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Yes it is
Jul-Sept 1847 LINLEY Susannah Ecclesfield 22 167
Susannah Lindley, baptism: 3 Oct 1847 Hoyland Nether,York,England
Father: John Lindley Mother: Maria
1851Census - Pleasley Hill, Mansfield
LINDLEY
John 67 Baker b. Pleasey, Derbyshire
Mary 30 b. Darton, Notts
Charles 24 Labourer b. Sutton in Ashfield
Mary Ann 20 b. S in A
Susannah 17 b. S in A
Harriett 13 b. S in A
Pheobe 11 b. S in A
Ellen 7 b. S in A
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:) :)
What is that 1851 census? It wouldn't be the same Susannah and family would it? The Susannah there is 17 but the Susannah I'm looking for was born 1847 so she would've only been 4 at the time
Molly
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Regarding Thomas Varley who married Susannah Lindley, I can see two that match the time frame for his birth, both born in Bradford, one 1844 and one 1845. I wonder if any of these are our Thomas?
Molly
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Re 1851 census - yes Mollyrobz you are correct it's the wrong family - sorry busy rushing before going out for the day :-[
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Thank you Jaysholme :)
I can't seem to find a birth for a Thomas Varley in Hoyland as yet, only two in Bradford. He seems to change his birth location quite alot, was this common on census records?
Molly
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Hi Molly
'Thomas born in Hoyland' also doesn't seemed to appear on any census before 1871 so I have had a look for a Richard Varley, cabinet maker with a son called Thomas and I found one in Marsden near Huddersfield. His wife is Selina which is a family name
Jane
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Richard (27) joiner married Selina Garside (21) on 30 Nov 1837 at Huddersfield Parish Church, both of Slaithwaite. Fathers: Nathan Varley, joiner and Joshua Garside, ironmonger. Witnesses: William Bailey, Joshua Farrar.
Selina died in Feb 1854 aged 42 years and was buried at St James, Slaithwaite on 14 February.
Richard had moved to Widnes by 1861 and then re-married on 5 June 1865 at Farnworth, Lancashire to Ellen Appleby (widow) nee Wright.
In 1871 they were back in Marsden where Richard died in Oct 1873
Just found this website that has the gravestones on ;D http://www.whitwam.co.uk/Slaithwaite_Grave_Stones/
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'Thomas born in Hoyland' also doesn't seemed to appear on any census before 1871
I have had a look for a Richard Varley, cabinet maker with a son Thomas and I found one in Marsden near Huddersfield. His wife is Selina which is a family name
Richard (27) joiner married
Selina Garside (21) on 30 Nov 1837 at Huddersfield Parish Church, both of Slaithwaite.
Fathers: Nathan Varley, joiner and Joshua Garside, ironmonger.
Ch 1844 Slaithwaite York Thomas Varley parents Richard & Selina
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NTC4-W4C
Ch 1840 Elizabeth Varley
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J9Q4-4V2
Ch 1849 Helen Louisa Varley
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JSTB-ZTY
Ch 1838 John Garside Varley
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J9T8-SM4
1851c https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKVV-M8K7
21 May 1863 Great Sankey,Lancashire (from Lancashire OPC)
John Garside Varley 25 Bt. Widnes, Joiner & Builder
Jane Chatterton 20, Sp., Penketh
Father Richard Varley Joiner & Builder
Father Henry Chatterton, Tool Maker
Witness: William Chatterton; Eillen Hannah Robinson
Married by Licence
Burial: 6 Jan 1917 St Mary, Great Sankey Lancashire
John Garside Varley age 78 years, Widnes
Richard had moved to Widnes by 1861 re-married on 5 June 1865 at Farnworth, Lancashire
Ellen Appleby (widow) nee Wright.
In 1871 they were back in Marsden where Richard died in Oct 1873
1871c https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBHP-17D
Ch 1810 Slaithwaite Richard parents Nathan Varley & Elizabeth
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J7V9-Y8K
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For info.
There is a
Thomas Varley born c1843 occupation Shoe & Clog Maker with his parents William
and Hannah on
1871c pob Bradford https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBCQ-32X and
1861 pob Bradford & 1851 pob Horton
Ch 1847 Slaithwaite York Thomas parents William Varley & Hannah
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J7V9-BL6
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Hello Jane and Ladyhawk and thank you both for all of this information :)
Jane, yes you are right that Selina does seem to be a family name as on that census you found me earlier, Thomas and Susannah appear to also of had a dau named Selina. So a possible connection perhaps?
Ladyhawk, is the last post you sent me for the Thomas that was born in Bradford? I'm struggling to understand everything as there is so much info! :) if so, the occupation is right as on Richard Varleys marriage cert, his father Thomas is said to of been a clog maker then again on a census that Jaysholme sent me he is said to of been a master clogger. So it matches this last Thomas you've mentioned. Only difference is the parents names :P
Hope I haven't confused you both
Molly
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is the last post you sent me for the Thomas that was born in Bradford?
I'm struggling to understand everything as there is so much info! :) if so, the occupation is right as on Richard Varleys marriage cert, his father Thomas is said to of been a clog maker then again on a census that Jaysholme sent me he is said to of been a master clogger.
I was looking to see if I could find the 1861c for the Thomas Varley son of Richard & Selina from 1871 census posted by Jaysholme
I came across a Thomas Varley with occ shoe/clogg maker on 1861c born 1843 Bradford and wondered if they had entered his relationship incorrectly BUT on further investigation
I found that this Thomas Varley was again on the 1871 censuses with his parents William & Hannah so a different TV
To claify here's the details of this Thomas Varley
1851c 1843 pob HORTON son of William & Hannah –
1861c 1843 pob BRADFORD son of William & Hannah - occ Clog Maker
1871c 1843 pob Bradford son of William & Hannah
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBCQ-32X
1881 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKXG-9129 TV wife Mary J (marriage1872 Bradford)
1891 1843 pob Bradford his occupation is a commercial traveller
1901 1843 pob Bradford his occupation is a Boot & Shoe traveller
This appears to be his birth entry
Thomas Varley 1843 Jan-Feb-Mar Bradford Vol 23 Page 157
HORTON is in the Registration district of Bradford - see FreeBMD
This looks to be the birth entry for Thomas Varley son of Richard & Selina
Thomas VARLEY Apr May Jun 1844 Huddersfield vol 22 page 406
MARSDEN and SLAITHWAITE are both in the registration district of Huddersfield
and here's his baptism with dob
Thomas Varley born 15 May 1844
bapt. 21 Jul 1844 St James Slaithwaite with East Scammonden
parents Richard Varley occ Builder & Selina abode Marsden
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Thank you Ladyhawk, that eliminates one potential candidate :)
I'm also seeing a Thomas Varley that matches the description slightly but I can't seem to figure it out, I'm wondering if anybody else has come across him? He is on various census with his family, two of them being a wife Susannah (?) and a son Richard. This Thomas was also born in Bradford (possibly Manningham?) I think it's saying that his parents where a Robert Varley and a Phoebe (?). Can see them in Hoyland I think in 1901.
I think you're probably right with the Thomas and Selina that you've both found but I'm trying to cover all angles ;D
Molly
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I'm also seeing a Thomas Varley that matches the description slightly but I can't seem to figure it out.
I'm wondering if anybody else has come across him?
He is on various census with his family, two of them being a wife Susannah (?) and a son Richard.
I think you're probably right with the Thomas and Selina that you've both found but I'm trying to cover all angles ;D
Just to confirm are these the censuses you are referring too - details previously posted by Jaysholme
also posted were the marriage details for Richard Varley & Selina nee Garside - see reply 21
and marriage details for Thomas & Susannah nee Lindley - see reply 13
Thomas 1846 pob Marsden parents Richard & Selina
1851c https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKVV-M8K7
1861c ?
Thomas 1846 Hoyland occ Master Clogger wife Susannah
1871 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZGR-K8R
Thos 1846 pob Marsden occ Clogger wife Susannah
1881 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKXP-WG2K
Thomas 1846 pob Yorkshire occ Master Clogger wife Susannah
1891 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7FKH-FMM
1901 RG13; Piece: 4322; Folio: 36; Page: 10
Thomas 1844 Bradford occ Clogger own a/c
Susannah 55, Thomas 27, Arthur 22, James G 19, John W 15 All born Hoyland
These appear to be the birth entries in Barnsley for Thomas Varley & Susannah's children (See FreeBMD)
Hoyland Nether is in the registration district Barnsley - note two children have middle name GARSIDE
Richard 1866, Selina 1868, John William 1869, Maria 1872,Thomas 1874
Joshua Garside 1876, Arthur 1879, Laura 1881, James Garside 1883, John William 1886
Susannah Lindley Baptism 3 Oct 1847 Hoyland Nether,York,England
parents John & Maria
See reply 25 for
Thomas Varley's baptism/birth details parents Richard & Selina
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Hello Ladyhawk,
I think I've got confused :D I got an ancestry hit that gave me a Thomas Varley born 1844 Bradford son of Robert and Phoebe. I try not to use ancestry too often but occasionally it gives me good matches
Molly
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I think I've got confused :D I got an ancestry hit that gave me a Thomas Varley born 1844 Bradford son of Robert and Phoebe.
There is a Thomas whose parents are named Robert & Phoebe
Thomas Varley 1844 Manningham parents Robert Varley & Phoebe
1851c https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKVG-8Q1B
1861c ?
No Thomas with his parents Robert occ Warehousman & Phoebe
1871c https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBCQ-3X4
Robert & Phoebe
1881c https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKXG-4K77
baptism of their children Abadiah, John Robert, Creser, Matthew, Mary Jane, Lydia Ann, Ellen can be found at St Peter Bradford (Bradford Cathedral) Ancestry) & Lily’s at St Jude Manningham
couldn’t see one for Thomas :(
and Robert Varley's occ Warehousman marriage to Phoebe Thompson on 9 May 1847 at Shipley, St Paul, Yorkshire, his father is John
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Hello Ladyhawk,
Thank you for that last post, I guess that rules out that Thomas Varley :) what is that last 1901 census that you mentioned? Is it the same family? Where they living in Bradford at the time? Is that what confused me? ???
Molly
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what is that last 1901 census that you mentioned?
Is it the same family?
Where they living in Bradford at the time?
1901 RG13; Piece: 4322; Folio: 36; Page: 10
Thomas 1844 Bradford occ Clogger own a/c
Susannah 55, Thomas 27, Arthur 22, James G 19, John W 15 All born Hoyland
The address for the above 1901 census for
Thomas Varley 1844 pob Bradford Clogger (his parents Robert & Selina)
Wife Susannah
66 King Street
parish Hoyland Nether
Reg. District Barnsley Yorkshire
and for
1901 1843 pob Bradford his occupation is a Boot & Shoe traveller
Thomas Varley 1843 pob Bradford Boot & Shoe Traveller (his parents William & Hannah)
Wife Mary Jane
1901 RG13; Piece: 4181; Folio: 108; Page: 17
17 Balfour St.,
Shipley
Reg District North Brierley
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It's getting confusing now ;D
I can see two Thomas Varleys born in 1844 on Freebmd, one born Huddersfield and one born Bradford. Both born in June. So it doesn't really help, if I'm reading your info correctly, Thomas (son of Richard and Selina) had both stated on census records as his pob? Am I right? :)
Molly
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I can see two Thomas Varleys born in 1844 on Freebmd, one born Huddersfield and one born Bradford. Both born in June. So it doesn't really help, if I'm reading your info correctly, Thomas (son of Richard and Selina) had both stated on census records as his pob? Am I right? :)
This looks to be the birth entry for Thomas Varley son of Richard & Selina
Thomas VARLEY Apr May Jun 1844 Huddersfield vol 22 page 406
MARSDEN and SLAITHWAITE are both in the registration district of Huddersfield
and here's his baptism with dob
Thomas Varley born 15 May 1844
bapt. 21 Jul 1844 St James Slaithwaite with East Scammonden
parents Richard Varley occ Builder & Selina abode Marsden
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Thomas Varley married Susannah Linley/Lindley and she was the daughter of John Linley and Maria (?).
On the census records it shows that Susannah had a sister named Mirah/Myrah. I wonder if Maria also went by Myrah?
There is a John and Myrah Linley on the 1871 census living in Hoyland with a daughter Myrah and some others that I can't see. Mum Myrah was 53 at the time so a birth of 1818 looks likely?
As Susannah was born in Ecclesfield and Baptized in Hoyland I wonder if the marriage between John LUMLEY and Myrah Morton in Ecclesfield Sep 1843 is our family? A long shot perhaps, but I can't seem to find anything else remotely matching on FreeBMD
Molly
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Thomas Varley married Susannah Linley/Lindley and she was the daughter of John Linley and Maria (?).
On the census records it shows that Susannah had a sister named Mirah/Myrah. I wonder if Maria also went by Myrah?
There is a John and Myrah Linley on the 1871 census living in Hoyland with a daughter Myrah and some others that I can't see. Mum Myrah was 53 at the time so a birth of 1818 looks likely?
1871 C Myrah https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZGR-NS2
1850 Ch. Mira https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKVG-YV6S
As Susannah was born in Ecclesfield and Baptized in Hoyland
I wonder if the marriage between John LUMLEY and Myrah Morton in Ecclesfield Sep 1843 is our family?
A long shot perhaps, but I can't seem to find anything else remotely matching on FreeBMD
Their first daughter Sarah Ann was born c1841
Possible ch 1840 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NB4S-X4D
This seems to be the family on 1841 census
HO107 P 1329; Civil Parish: Wath Upon Dearne Yorkshire; E D: 9a; F 35 P 17
Hoyland
John LINDLEY 23 miner
Maria 23
Sarah Ann 9 months
All born in this county
and this seems to be the same family 1851 surname LINLEY - 'D'
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKVG-YVHJ
and a possible marriage entry
Sep 1839 Rotherham
John LINDLEY
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2DC1-Q9F
a birth certificate of one of their children would confirm mother's maiden name
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Thank you for this info,
That John Lindley married Mariann Cookson in Sep 1839 Rotherham.
But yes, a birth cert would certainly be the way :)
Molly
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For anybody else researching this family, I have ordered a few birth certs and will post the details on here once they arrive :)
In the mean time did anybody ever find out anything about Olive Sayles b.1868 Elsecar? Wife of Richard Varley and dau of George Sayles and Harriet (?). I wonder if it was Harriet Carnelly, the couple that married 1850 Doncaster?
Molly
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Hi Mollyrobz
George actually married twice, firstly to Sarah Carnelley in Oct-Dec 1843 and they had two children John (1844-1859) and Mary Martha Ann (1846-1900 married John Kirk). Sarah died June 1847. George then married Harriett Carnelley in Apr-Jun 1850. They had 12 children but one son Samuel (1851) died when he was 6 months old. Only five married Ebenezer Carvil to Margaret Hutchinson, Sarah Carnelly to Sam Cooke, Kate Elizabeth to Horace Jessop, Charles to Maria varley and Olive to Richard Varley.
It looks like that Sarah & Harriett were sisters and were the daughters of George & Olive (according to FamilySearch)
Jane
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Hello Jane,
Thank you for this very helpful info. I believe that the marriage between George and Harriet is the one that I'm after as their daughter Olive Sayles who married Richard Varley is my direct ancestor :) if I'm right, I think George and Harriet married in Doncaster, but I can't seem to find a place of birth for either of them as yet,
Molly
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Jane,
Judging by the bits you've sent me it looks like George was the George Sayles born 1820 Thorpe Hesley? Can't seem to find anything else on him, has anybody else? Also if Harriet's parents where named George Carnelly and Olive (?), I wonder if it was Olive/Olivia Lambert?
Molly
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There are several trees on Ancestry stating that George married Olivia Lambert but there is no image only the entry transcribed as the following from England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 index
Name: Olivia Lambert
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 19 Oct 1815
Marriage Place: Wath Upon Dearne,York, England
Spouse: George Carnelly
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George Carnelly age 24
Marriage Date: 15 Oct 1815 Wath, York, England
Olivia Lambert age 24
1841 HO107; P 1329; Book: 9; Civil Parish: Wath Upon Dearne E D: 8; F 22; P 1
Surname transcribed as CARWLLEY
George 45 farmer, Oliva 45,
John 15, Harritt 12, OLevea (Oliva)10, Thomas 7
All noted as born in this county
1851 HO107; Piece: 2345; Folio: 58; Page: 2
George 59, Olive 57 , John 27, Thomas 17
William Lambert 59
1861 RG 9; Piece: 3510; Folio: 100; Page: 1
Living with George & family Olive’s brother Will Lambert 70 and nephew
George Sayle 11 –
George M (Mann) Sayles on 1851 HO107; P 2344; F 320; P 7 with parents
George & Harrott plus siblings also with them is sister in law
Olive Carnelley 20
George Carnelley Died 17 Dec 1876 at |Norton
Probate Date: 8 Feb 1877 to son & only next of kin Thomas of Norton Farmer
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Thank you Jay55 and Ladyhawk, it certainly looks as though the Carnelly and Lambert families where connected but perhaps it's another birth cert that's needed to have definitive proof?
Does any body have any info on the Carnelly family? It's a strange name that I've never heard of before
Molly