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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Pandy on Friday 28 August 15 09:08 BST (UK)
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I have a record of indentures to a ship: the Alfred Hawley, for 1870. How do I discover whether the 17 year old lad went straight on board or to Deptford for training? Records are sparse - but the system for training may have been standard - he was 17 in early Feb 1870 and the indenture is dated 27/6/1870.
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The Alfred Hawley arrived Gravesend from Brisbane 18 May 1870. Newspapers immediately began to advertise the next sailing eg.
Deckitt & Moore's Australian Line of Packets - the following high class vessels and favourite passenger ships will be despatched as under
Port Brisbane Ship Alfred Hawley Captain J W Balfour Dock WID* To sail July 25
(WID - West India Dock?)
Does he have a record at FindMyPast's Merchant Navy records?
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The advertised date of sailing was subsequently amended to 10 Aug, 20 Aug, 15th Sep and she eventually sailed from Gravesend on 22 September.
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She was reported in Brisbane 9 Jan 1871 and returned by June 1871 "from Moreton Bay".
Next sailed for Brisbane early October 1871 - left Deal on the 4th.
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Deckitt & Moore's Australian Line of Packets - the following high class vessels and favourite passenger ships will be despatched as under...
Being pedantic - I have some peripheral interest in the line - it was Devitt and Moore. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devitt_and_Moore ; there's a published history entitled Painted Ports.
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Thanks to you both - that's an amazing amount of information in a very short time! I don't have access to Find My Past at present, but will certainly think about looking there.
The dates are really interesting as they fit round a big family crisis.
The lad I am following was 17 and indentured for 4 years. I am wondering what training he would have had before that - 17 was quite old to be starting out. His family had hit hard times, but he was not in an institution, so some of the training ships 'avenues' don't help much.
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Far from pedantic - very necessary.
How does the advert go - "Should have gone to ....."? (and only yesterday I booked an appointment with the optician).
Clearly "Devitt and Moore" in my transcribed notes.
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The vessel ALFRED HAWLEY official number 29015 was still owned by Walker and Fowler and registered in London UK in 1870. I assume that her marketing was in the hands of Devitt and Moore who in 1860-1870's were trading brokers for a number of merchants who owned sailing vessels on the Australia run. I note ALFRED HAWLEY is not on the list of vessels owned by Devitt and Moore. I understand she was sold to Newcastle NSW interests in the early 1880's. Her registry was closed in 1913.
To answer to the original post.
The 1870 logbooks and crew agreements of ALFRED HAWLEY are available from here
https://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombinedcrews.php?Official_No=29015
Don't expect a load of information regarding apprentices, but it should tell you were and when he was engaged as an apprentice.
It may also pay you to research at the British National Archive, The records in BT150/1-14. In particular the documents in BT150/12
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C408509
You would need to visit but it should inform you of the name of the apprentice, age when indentured, starting date and duration of indenture, masters name and ships name.
There are some original maritime apprentice records (indentures) but only one in five have been preserved. See BT151. In particular BT151/6
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1734246
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Thanks for the additional information. It would be good to find out more.
I have the record of his indenture - though would like to see an original.
17 seems late to be starting as a raw recruit, so I am thinking he may have had basic training elsewhere. I'll follow your links to see if anything is mentioned regarding what evel he entered service.
Thanks again
Pandy
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Seawead,
Great to hear from you again. But re the original query about training -
Were youngsters trained before they went on board or was it learning on the job? The indenture was dated 27 Jun 1870 - the Alfred Hawley sailed 22 Sept1870. What training facilities, if any, existed at this time?
thanks
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My feeling is that he would receive on the job training rather than formal classroom education such as the classes on HMS WORCESTER etc.
ALFRED HAWLEY was a sailing ship, the emphasis on establishments such as WORCESTER was more directed to training officers to be employed on steam ships which were coming to the fore around that time.
There was much to do to maintain a 420 ton sailing ship in a seaworthy condition and I see no problem with the date of indenture and the later sailing date nor the fact that he was 17 when he signed the apprenticeship papers.
Of course he could have received some form of training on a non formal basis, say on a local fishing boat for instance.