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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Mowsehowse on Thursday 27 August 15 18:10 BST (UK)
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Tonight's programme should be exploring a Huguenot connection, so with any luck we may get a few clues regarding how to proceed with that line of enquiry.
I have read it is quite an interesting episode, fingers crossed. ;)
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I don't know who he is, but I'll be watching this, if I don't nod off.
They did the Huguenots in a previous series didn't they .... and they're doing Frances de la Tour later in the series, who I think's also one.
In the previous episode they explained what one was and traipsed round Ye Olde GraveYard. It's a bunch of persecuted people (French Protestants), persecuted by religion, so they left. (Please excuse the technical terms there, I'm clearly well educated ..... to age 7).
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I don't know who he is, but I'll be watching this, if I don't nod off.
They did the Huguenots in a previous series didn't they .... and they're doing Frances de la Tour later in the series, who I think's also one.
In the previous episode they explained what one was and traipsed round Ye Olde GraveYard. It's a bunch of persecuted people (French Protestants), persecuted by religion, so they left. (Please excuse the technical terms there, I'm clearly well educated ..... to age 7).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Jacobi Sir Derek Jacobi , English actor
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Ummmmm....... yes.
Derek Jacobi is an Actor.
I believe they have covered Huguenots before on WDYTYA but at that stage I was not paying sufficient attention as I had not found any in my researches, but I suspect I may have done now, and really would like to know how to find out for sure.
And yes, French Protestants of the 16th and 17th centuries. Largely Calvinist, the Huguenots suffered severe persecution at the hands of the Catholic majority, and many thousands emigrated from France, many stopping off in the Channel Islands I believe, but also arriving in England bringing with them marvellous skills in various industries. The best known is silk weaving I think.
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Huguenot's well I have Huguenot blood so shall find this even more interesting.
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Definitely plenty of history there!! And very interesting, though I am not entirely sure I would feel confident assuming that level of interpretation in my researches!! :o
Just how did Msr De La Plain amass £80,000 I wonder?
I also wonder if my chap was amongst the 10% in William lll's army? And I wonder how I could find out?
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At last! A good story and lots of very interesting genealogy finds, no jumping.... Other than to let the story unfold.
Thoroughly enjoyable.
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Ummmm
Armand Laplain married in 1846 and he was a whitesmith, illiterate, his father Joseph was said to be a Police Officer.
So in just over 100 years the family went from being Chaplin to the Duke if Devonshire to an illiterate whitesmith.
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I also wanted to know why this had happened and I was hoping it would have been covered in the programme. It would have been more interesting than finding out about his GG brother in law, which was the last 10 minutes or so.
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Ummmm Armand Laplain married in 1846 and he was a whitesmith, illiterate, his father Joseph was said to be a Police Officer. So in just over 100 years the family went from being Chaplin to the Duke if Devonshire to an illiterate whitesmith.
The financier in France made shed loads of money which is how he got out of the fortress and was presented at Court in England. His 25 year old bride then spent the fortune (partially backing her brother I imagine,) and succeeding generations had to struggle.
Not something I would be quite so proud of. Or am I misunderstanding??
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Joseph Laplain was born in Chesterfield, son of Armand and Ann Laplain ( both died in Derby).
I still can't see how they went down so quickly.
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Ummmm Armand Laplain married in 1846 and he was a whitesmith, illiterate, his father Joseph was said to be a Police Officer. So in just over 100 years the family went from being Chaplin to the Duke if Devonshire to an illiterate whitesmith.
The financier in France made shed loads of money which is how he got out of the fortress and was presented at Court in England. His 25 year old bride then spent the fortune (partially backing her brother I imagine,) and succeeding generations had to struggle.
Not something I would be quite so proud of. Or am I misunderstanding??
Didn't a newspaper cutting show that Joseph's son William made a good marriage to a lady of some fortune?
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Rev William's will is on National Archives, but you have to pay to see it.
So did he die with money? Did he leave money to Armand? and did it filter down? At least one member of the family was applying for outdoor relief.
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Had a v quick read of the will. The Rev William left bequests in his will of well over £500. He made the will in 1764 and died the following year. £500+ was a lot of money in those days!
Added, he left £330 to his wife, to live on the interest and £200 to share between his 4 children. Then there were other bequests for mourning rings, and all his goods.
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It went straight back to about 1700 ... and abroad .... and I mentally switched off .... and then it ended.
I can only be interested in things I'm interested in. Selfish, I know, but that's how we all are.
I like the sort of material that bobbles around in England in times more recent. Stuff that's understandable and general ... rather than this new format that seems to land straight into one time period/event and stay there.
I like disappearing granddads ... and what happened to them.
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I think it is a great pity they don't have a "how we did it" section at the end of each show, (as suggested above by Caw1,) but I suspect that after the WDYTYA web site was set up it was considered unnecessary, as advice on specific topics can be accessed here when required.
http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/tutorials
Yes, I think that's probably the case -
What are the thoughts on tonight's episode with Derek Jacobi?
I thoroughly enjoyed tonight's programme, it is to me exactly what the title suggests!
All those wonderful documents that he was provided with too. I'm sure TNA must have worked their socks off to find them. Amazing too that there was quite a lot of info in France too.
Last year my husband and I stayed in the Loire and drove through Loches, the castle is unbelievably imposing and overshadows the area, what a terrifying place to be shut away in!
Joseph was certainly a tough cookie, but fancy trusting a woman with all that money!!
Still the family certainly prospered early on and it's obviously in Derek's DNA playing kings and other royal parts!
I would have liked to know how they went from boom to bust ending up in a poor environment?
Caw1
Moderator Comment: topics merged
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So the 25 year old wife had one son, but we don't know how many children he had, or how many children his children had. Bearing in mind that any money would probably have gone to the eldest son, it's easy to see how the others and their children ended up poor.
It happened with my ancestors, they were very rich and for a few generations my ancestor was the eldest son, then my 8 x g.grandfather was the 3rd son, my 7th g.grandfather was the 6th son and so on, so that in a few generations we end up with my 3 x g.grandfather dying in a workhouse in 1846.
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Joseph was certainly a tough cookie, but fancy trusting a woman with all that money!!
This is a bit sexist >:(
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I thought he died a few months after his son was born and I'm sure they said there were no others he'd had in England.There nay have been sone in France.We also wondered whether one could be sure that Willuam was his son and not he son of his 25 year old wife after an affair.
Still a fantastic story ....very well done BUT Wish they found out why later generations were so poor.
Ringrose
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I really enjoyed this as I didn't know much about the Huguenots. But I so agree with everyone that we needed to know the human interest angle of 'riches to rags'.
And I was a little bit disappointed that at the end Derek Jacobi said
' So I am descended from admirable people'. How sad he was so starstruck by all the titles and wealth.
Pat
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I really enjoyed this as I didn't know much about the Huguenots. But I so agree with everyone that we needed to know the human interest angle of 'riches to rags'.
And I was a little bit disappointed that at the end Derek Jacobi said
' So I am descended from admirable people'. How sad he was so starstruck by all the titles and wealth.
Pat
I agree with everything you've said.
An interesting programme but my concentration drifted off at the end though. I remember the "donjon" at Loches - terrifying!
I learnt some new history by watching the programme which is always a good outcome. Well done BBC for all the detailed research.
Judy
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I thought he died a few months after his son was born and I'm sure they said there were no others he'd had in England.There nay have been sone in France.We also wondered whether one could be sure that Willuam was his son and not he son of his 25 year old wife after an affair.
Still a fantastic story ....very well done BUT Wish they found out why later generations were so poor.
Ringrose
This worried me as well, a man in his 70s who had been in prison for some years marries and produces a son immediately, OK possible but how likely?
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Can someone tell me where that pie and mash shop is that instantly gives you your Gt Grandmother's birth certificate on entering?
I thought this was very interesting. I also have riches to rags in two generations so I know it can happen - especially with big families.
I loved the suspense of how DJ was here if Joseph didn't marry which was solved at the end. In a much smaller way I could relate to a lot of this because I have 'jumped' a couple of generations then found them on the way back which was what seemed to happen here.
Good research done by the BBC. My favourite for a long time.
Rishile
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One thing I will say in the programme's favour is that they used Sarah Wise as the East End expert, if you read any of her books she is the top person for East End history.
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I enjoyed it, i think we have to take in to account that this is a programme for entertainment not an Open University programme on Genealogy.
Jennifer
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I thought this was a really good episode. Showed that occasionally you can be lucky to find a record ( in this case the French Hospital record) that can take you back many generations. I don't think there is anything odd in the fact that some later descendents ended up poorer than others. I am sure this would be the same in most families over that number of generations. It also works the other way.
Isobel
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A fascinating programme with lots of old records.........just how WDYTYA used to be!
I'm possibly biased as I'm a fan of Derek Jacobi. ;)
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A fascinating programme with lots of old records.........just how WDYTYA used to be!
I'm possibly biased as I'm a fan of Derek Jacobi. ;)
OK I might be biased as well, I can't stand him, he seams way to luvvie and false to me, everything seems to be an act.
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I thought he died a few months after his son was born and I'm sure they said there were no others he'd had in England.There nay have been sone in France.We also wondered whether one could be sure that Willuam was his son and not he son of his 25 year old wife after an affair.
Still a fantastic story ....very well done BUT Wish they found out why later generations were so poor.
Ringrose
This worried me as well, a man in his 70s who had been in prison for some years marries and produces a son immediately, OK possible but how likely?
It look's like a marriage of convenience, she gets the money and he gets an heir. Whether the child was his is not relevant.
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I enjoyed it ... found it really interesting.
Helped me with my thoughts on my Guilliame or wotever William :) :)
Maybe if they dig Joseph up they will be able to prove a link to Derek... :) :) :)
anyway - yes I enjoyed it so thats good..
xin
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Had a v quick read of the will. The Rev William left bequests in his will of well over £500. He made the will in 1764 and died the following year. £500+ was a lot of money in those days!
Rev William's Will was written 2 May 1752 not 1764. This is why he only mentions four children all under the age of 21 years and Armand doesn't get a mention by name. It was proven 4 March 1765 and can be viewed on ancestry.
I found the programme interesting, albeit I'm biased as I have several Huguenot/Walloon ancestors, although mine were all poor silk weavers. ;D
Mind you, the programme makers had quite a good head start on researching as there was, among others, a short piece written about Joseph in Volume 16 of the Huguenot Society's "Huguenot Families" publication from 2007! Not very long but confirms that Rev William and his wife had seven children, those mentioned in his Will plus Armand and two younger children.
According to the Huguenot Society publication of transcripts of the records of La Providence, the French Hospital, Hannah Sudbury nee Laplain was not the model resident as she was reprimanded on several occasions for rudeness and impertinance to members of staff and being absent on quite a few occasions. :-X She only spent 10 years in the hospital and was told when she left the last time she wouldn't be allowed to return. Interestingly the entry does mention that she did produce a number of documents to prove she was a descendant of Joseph, including various baptismal, marriage and burial certificates, and a couple of pedigrees of the family, one of which was apparently drawn up by her son.
As has already been said by others, its not that unusual for money to disappear within a couple of generations when large families are involved.
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Enjoyed this much more than the previous programmes in this series. Again I was amazed at the documents retrieved from so many generations ago, but there did seem to be a couple of generations missing in the middle that I would like to have more information about - why the move from Derby to London, for example?
Still not sure that I like the way this series seems to like to concentrate on one character (or in the last one two ). Derek Jacobi's German paternal ancestors were dismissed in a sentence. OK, so he apparently knew about them, but we didn't!
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I greatly enjoyed this programme - and I thought Jacobi's responses were appropriate, he was interested in that line, made it clear that there was some family knowledge right from the start, and it went on. He's a capable actor, but was merely reacting to information presented, and it was far enough from our time not, thank goodness, to provide a need for emotional teary reactions.
Perhaps a clue to where "the money" went may have been in the references to Chancery - "Bleak House" by Charles Dickens was the first I ever read on this, and when researching my main line I came upon some reference to Chancery, and it seems as if that could cause money to be tied up or vanish for ages, at the least.
It may have been nice to find out how the family fared, obviously they - or at least some of the family - went to Derbyshire because of the Ducal patronage, in later years, but it's only an hour in length - and can't cover everything. It was interesting, showed that "real" researchers had put in the legwork, and although I've not the slightest Huguenot ancestry, so it was all new to me, I felt I learned quite a bit.
This is far more in the spirit of WDYTYA?, and this series seems to have improved from a poor start. I do hope it continues with this sort of longer range hunt.
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William was born in 1709 I think and Joseph died in January 1710. William was baptised in the French chapel in Westminster on 28 May 1709 as the son of Joseph and Salome. So I would think it is highly likely he was Joseph's son. Joseph and Salome wed in July 1708 in Fish Street.
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Best one of the 3 so far! I liked the fact they went back with records... well sort of! A bit more like real genealogy and the castle/prison was filmed well.
I would have preferred them tracing back to Joseph then finding out more about him. Rather than just going by what the record says, find out information on him, then see if their is a relation. As it's easy to go wrong by believing what people say! ;)
But overall, definitely the most interesting of the 3.
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It went straight back to about 1700 ... and abroad .... and I mentally switched off .... and then it ended.
I like disappearing granddads ... and what happened to them.
StanleyChesterton - you made me laugh ;D ;D
However I liked this episode. I enjoyed the history and was impressed with the research that had obviously been done to make the programme.
I too would have liked to have learned more about the missing generations from Joseph de la Plaigne to the financially embarrassed Hannah Sudberry .
According to the Huguenot Society publication of transcripts of the records of La Providence, the French Hospital, Hannah Sudbury nee Laplain was not the model resident as she was reprimanded on several occasions for rudeness and impertinance to members of staff and being absent on quite a few occasions. :-X She only spent 10 years in the hospital and was told when she left the last time she wouldn't be allowed to return Interesting snippet of info smudwhisk
Looby :)
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Trying not to read all the comments before I watch the series. This sounds really interesting and I'm looking forward to watching it.
I like disappearing granddads ... and what happened to them.
I highly recommend the current Australian series of WDYTYA which is chasing up errant grandfathers. An excellent series so far. ;) ;D
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I highly recommend the current Australian series of WDYTYA which is chasing up errant grandfathers. An excellent series so far. ;) ;D
I've managed to see the first three before the copyright police took them down. ;D Definitely agree the current Australian series is good, its a shame that the BBC won't purchase them to broadcast since they're far better than the US version which they seem to think we all want to see. ::) Mind you I'm not hopeful of seeing any more as they appear to have gotten quicker removing the infringing material from a certain site. :-X
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Glad you are (were :() enjoying them smudwhisk. I am enjoying this series. Are you no longer able to view new episodes?
Can't stomach the American series - they have to change everything just for the sake of it - example... intro music - wonderful on UK and Australian versions, awful on the American one. >:(
The constant re-caps are also dreadful.
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I suspect the copyright police have got quicker off the mark removing any infringing material unfortunately. :-X I don't mind viewing them on a certain website but avoid those that say "click this link to watch full programme" as you never know what else you've let yourself in for as they are hosted elsewhere. :o
I shall keep checking but I suspect they're currently watching for anything appearing as the series is current.
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That is a bit frustrating. Someone in my household is able to obtain the UK series through some complicated (to me) process. I haven't watched any of them yet though. :)
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We sat and watched it last night, found it very interesting. Husband is now intrigued as his great grandmother was also a Salome , but born down in Cornwall. He is usually more interested in his railway side of the family , but I was told not to delete the recording. I like Derek Jacobi, loved I Claudius and Caedfael , thought it was interesting that the later was set in Shropshire and that's where his ancestor was a parish priest.
Barb
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We sat and watched it last night, found it very interesting. Husband is now intrigued as his great grandmother was also a Salome , but born down in Cornwall. He is usually more interested in his railway side of the family , but I was told not to delete the recording. I like Derek Jacobi, loved I Claudius and Caedfael , thought it was interesting that the later was set in Shropshire and that's where his ancestor was a parish priest.
Barb
I had forgotten Jacobi played Brother Cadfael - I thought he was excellent in that. (Didn't watch Claudius.)
SALOME is a bible name of course. Not sure if it is particularly Huguenot. :o (Anyone??) According to Wiki "Christians have generally regarded Salome as a dangerous temptress", which fits with the programme very well I feel.
We have an Elijah. He was a bit of a joy to research because you don't get many to the pound of them!! ;D
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I had forgotten Jacobi played Brother Cadfael - I thought he was excellent in that. (Didn't watch Claudius.)
I'd forgotten Cadfael which I enjoyed. "I Claudius" I watched way back when but couldn't understand it.
SALOME is a bible name of course. Not sure if it is particularly Huguenot. :o (Anyone??) According to Wiki "Christians have generally regarded Salome as a dangerous temptress", which fits with the programme very well I feel.
We have an Elijah. He was a bit of a joy to research because you don't get many to the pound of them!! ;D
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I've got two Elijahs, father and son). Don't know if their ancestors were religious or not.
Judy
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We have an Elijah. He was a bit of a joy to research because you don't get many to the pound of them!! ;D
I've got two Elijahs, (father and son). Don't know if their ancestors were religious or not. Judy
Fancy that! And I am a Judy too. :D
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I highly recommend the current Australian series of WDYTYA which is chasing up errant grandfathers. An excellent series so far. ;) ;D
I didn't know there was an Australian series.... never seen it on my telly.
My tree is littered with missing men to be tracked down - it's intriguing to find out where they went. I've not started on my missing men yet though. One's in the RAF and I have a service number - but it's so expensive to get information from them, perchance there might actually be a record worth reading :)
There are also barriers as I'm not next of kin and they talk of "X years since they died", but until you track them down you can't be sure they DID die (one would be about 93-94 now and I've been told they died, but that might've just been a random comment to stop me asking questions).
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We have an Elijah. He was a bit of a joy to research because you don't get many to the pound of them!! ;D
I've got two Elijahs, (father and son). Don't know if their ancestors were religious or not. Judy
Fancy that! And I am a Judy too. :D
Ha. Ha.
There's a number of Judys on Rootschat. One of them is a distant relative related to the two Elijahs too.
Judyx
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I highly recommend the current Australian series of WDYTYA which is chasing up errant grandfathers. An excellent series so far. ;) ;D
I didn't know there was an Australian series.... never seen it on my telly.
Not surprising really since its never been shown on UK TV.
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We have a Samson as well, he emigrated to South Africa from Hayle. There were two Salome and Samson Rowe born very close together in Cornwall and I've had to be very careful when tracking them.
Barb
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I highly recommend the current Australian series of WDYTYA which is chasing up errant grandfathers. An excellent series so far. ;) ;D
I didn't know there was an Australian series.... never seen it on my telly.
Some you wont know , some you will. Even some I have never heard of ;D
Andrea Bentschneider , 2009
Ita Buttrose , 2008
Kate Ceberano , 2008
Dennis Cometti , 2008
Cathy Freeman , 2008
Geoffrey Robertson , 2008
Jack Thompson 2008
Christine Anu , 2009
Ron Barassi 2009
Maggie Beer , 2009
John Butler, 2009
Ben Mendelsohn 2009
Sigrid Thornton 2009
Tina Arena, 2010
Shane Bourne 2010
Rod Marsh , 2010
Paul Mercurio , 2010
Magda Szubanski , 2010
Georgie Parker 2011
Vince Colosimo 2012
Melissa George , 2012
Shaun Micallef , 2012
Kerry O'Brien , 2012
Michael O'Loughlin , 2012
John Wood , 2012
Michael Caton , 2013
Don Hany , 2013
Adam Hills 2013
Asher Keddie 2013
Lex Marinos , 2013
Susie Porter 2013
Andrew Denton 2014
Ray Martin 2015
Peter Rowsthorn 2015
Dorothy May 2010
Gus Mercurio 2010
John Howard , 2013 (not the Prime Minister)
Rove McManus 2013
John Young 2013
Rebecca Gibney 2014
Adam Goodes 2014
Amanda Keller 2014
Lisa McCune 2014
Paul McDermott 2014
Richard Roxburgh 2014
Jacki Weaver 2014
Toni Collette 2015
Dawn Fraser 2015
Luke Nguyen 2015
Greig Pickhaver 2015
Geoffrey Rush 2015
David Wenham 2015
From http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1152296/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast
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Loved Derek Jacobi in Claudius and Caedfael but he was recently ( 8 or so years ago ) seen in Dr Who as Professor Yana
Great cameo
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He can play comedy parts, as well.
Does anyone remember him in an episode of "Frazier" ?
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"I Claudius" I watched way back when but couldn't understand it.
If you get chance I would try watching it again. I had it on DVD and I think its something that really stood the test of time. You can tell that it was made on a budget because the sets are not great, but I think it's a really compelling drama with great performances all round, including those by Brian Blessed and Patrick Stewart.
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Not surprising really since its never been shown on UK TV.
Ah, I'm not very good with the telly ... I turn it on as background noise and it's on whatever channel until it annoys me, then I flick round to the next thing that doesn't seem annoying. I never know what's on/when and regularly miss things I'd have liked to have watched :)
I've got a freeview box on my portable telly, so way too many channels to ever understand what's going on!
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Some you wont know
You're not wrong there!!
including those by Brian Blessed and Patrick Stewart.
Even Biggins
Foirtunately, not for very long
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Before the thread goes off topic............this might interest those with Huguenot ancestry:
http://www.huguenotsofspitalfields.org/
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Before the thread goes off topic............this might interest those with Huguenot ancestry:
http://www.huguenotsofspitalfields.org/
Thank you for that NannyJan; I just had a quick look around. I must visit the fan museum in Greenwich one of these days.
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A bit of a disingenuous episode - but hey he's an actor and a jolly good one! :)
The De La Plagne genealogy is charted at http://bit.ly/1F7C8wP The Greffier role appears to have been inherited from his father Paul in the wine region.
One major thing the programme left out is that Joseph's brother Alexandre also settled in London, so he was not alone. This seems a huge omission.
So Joseph 'couldn't get enough evidence' so shopped around and went on the attack in the Court Of Chancery where it was 'one person's word against another' and hearsay accepted without evidence. That was skipped over quickly!
Inclined to think there may be a grain of truth in the woman's (or more likely the woman's family and its male line) story. Her family may have been one of the contacts on the outside talked about earlier.
Agree about the possibilities of Joseph and Salome's son ... Born nine months after the marriage and he dies eight months after. The godfather thing ... Weren't godfathers sometimes the real father, although of course there may have been more than one godfather, so if it was that it wasn't necessarily the Duke but one of his set.
Strange how the silk weaving factories were introduced while of course it was pertinent to the Huguenots but not to Joseph who had a well documented inherited Bordeaux Guyenne feudal position ... (Guyenne btw had passed between English and French kings a few times) Wonder whether Joseph was involved in the financing of this trade and got revenue from it? Just a thought. And guess just because Manze (or to be genealogically accurate Manze and Cooke) was introduced doesn't mean to say the de la Plagnes financed the eel pie and mash business unless it turns out the LaPlagne family married into the Manze or Cooke families! ;)
MAJOR UPDATE: This may be an ENORMOUS coincidence but it turns out, if it is verified, the original surname of the De La Bastide family into which Joseph De La Plagne married was De Jacques or JACOBI!!! http://bit.ly/1iaAt4A And nobody thought to put that in the programme?!!! The pies and mash are on Derek! Hehe!
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I had another question on last names and beginnings , but after my Jane Seymour fiasco , I had planned to keep my head low :-[ ;D
But its my understand that Jacobi/Jacob , not only biblical , but can be a reference to James V11 and the Jacobite Rebellion
A lot of Catholics etc left for France and some may have indicated their allegiance through names. ie Jacobi. Did this get a mention?
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Well of course Jacobus is Latin for James or Jack, although in the case of Jacobi in Derek Jacobi and de la Bastide (whom I'm assuming were Catholic), the surname was De Jacques - according to the link on the site http://bit.ly/1iaAt4A a de la Bastide is head of the judiciary in Trinidad if the site refers to current times. Doubtless many an aristocrat eyed the throne or even considered a feudal Republic with them at the head - if they could get the finance!
I was about to correct your James VII to III but then I remembered Scotland of course! That would have been a gross error on my part! It didn't get a mention, to answer your question - the Jacobi family were dismissed in a phrase as 'German bootmakers'.
If the De La Bastide, De Jacques, De la Plagne connection is correct, interesting that Derek Jacobi's parents hundreds of years later may have made what amounts to a dynastic marriage - unless they were milling around the community of French community descendants and it was a coincidence which can sometimes happen.
UPDATE: Derek Jacobi's German family came from Hoexter (Höxter) North Rhine Westphalia http://bit.ly/1JDXszr which was a "villa regia" in the time of Charlemagne which may well fit with the De La Bastide/De Jacques family. There are Christian Jacobi families still in Hoexter.
It is slightly confused in that it appears there was a Jewish Jacobi family (who probably adopted the surname around the 1700s/early 1800s when Jews were told to adopt surnames) in Fürstenau/Fuerstenau, Hoexter.
Obviously the father or grandfather's name may have been Jacob hence Jacobi but sometimes Christian families did allow Jewish families to take their surnames for a variety of reasons. There is the variation of Jacoby. http://bit.ly/1KUr5cg http://bit.ly/1EsymDp
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Great work Nospringchicken
The BBC always dumb everything down these days, and the programme is surely aimed to be an entertainment, they probably do not expect it to be picked to bits by genealogy fanatics.
Mr Jacobi did dismiss his German side out of hand - definitely preferred we look at his current home life than his German ancestors, and if he suspects they may have been Jewish that might be the reason why! Please do not start screaming at me, I have Jewish heritage. Out, loud and proud. :D
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Hi Mowsehowse, he doesn't necessarily have Jewish ancestry as you know but ... With so much financially and status-wise concentrated on having an eldest son whether in the nobility or trade guilds, there may be a hidden history ... But one has to be extremely cautious - it's an interesting thought but nothing more without evidence.
The Huguenot/Nominal Catholicism is interesting too - a little like the conversos who became New Christians, many of whom ended up in Bordeaux from Spain and Portugal.
In the mid to late 1500s Louis XIV did grant a limited residence to Jews on Guyenne so Joseph may have been involved in collecting money from them at the very least. So Guyenne had a special status as regards Jews.
Jews were also involved in the manufacture and dyeing of silk, for example, in Italy. But all this is bye the bye and establishment of a Jacobi- De La Plagne link before Deeek Jacobi's parents' marriage seems a much better bet.
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Really fascinating.
You obviously have a deep, deep knowledge.
Better watch out, you will be getting begging letters for help!! ;D
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I should, being a frank and open soul, really thank Mr and Mrs Google's little boy for his invention ... ;) hehe!!! :) Seriously there's some fascinating stuff on the internet about the common cause and similar precarious positions of Huguenots and Jews in Bordeaux and Guyenne at the time as religious persecution kicked in - for example http://bit.ly/1PF7GQj
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:D :D :D
I looked at that. Really interesting.
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Thank you nospringchicken :)
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'fuzzled' a new word for how I am feeling :)
xin
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Found this episode to be the best so far.
Surprised some had never heard of him - and no-one has mentioned Last Tango in Halifax!!!
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Found this episode to be the best so far.
Surprised some had never heard of him - and no-one has mentioned Last Tango in Halifax!!!
It is surprising that, given the diversity of his roles, some had not heard of him, but with all due respect, I am not sure that "Last Tango" or indeed recent the comedy series, rank among his best?? ::)
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Last Tango was certainly different from anything he has done before (to my knowledge). :Presumably his knighthood was for services to the theatre - but that is just a guess.
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Last Tango --- the first series was good, but then overplayed with its popularity asking for more.
It was interesting to see him in that role, although I much prefer his classical roles...
:)
Loved the WDYTA episode.. cos I have silk weavers toooo :)
xin
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Found this episode to be the best so far.
Surprised some had never heard of him - and no-one has mentioned Last Tango in Halifax!!!
He was famous before the Internet - as far as fame went in those days.
As far as I remember he and Alan Howard (another name which disappeared off the Brit celeb radar such as it was then and who recently died) were major stage stars in the 1970s and 1980s with classical roles with older guard Laurence Olivier, Alec Guinness (who made a major TV splash with Tinker, Tailor,) John Gielgud and Ralph Richardson doing classical and movie roles and Kenneth Branagh seen as taking on the mantle after them all. They all came out of the closed shop repertory system, although Branagh may have crossed over.
Derek Jacobi's breakthrough TV role was in I Claudius. He was also the TV Alan Turing. There was far more of a division then for actors between stage, TV drama, sitcom, soaps and movies, I think. He has made something of a comeback in recent years with a few stage performances, Last Tango and sitcom Vicious with Ian McKellan. I guess you could have compared him in '70s and '80s to Benedict Cumberbatch (he played Hamlet at the Old Vic) but without the internet, global reach, Asian audiences and stock exchange/football feel to fame and celebrity. It's different now with branded serials on so many platforms like Netflix, Amazon, Sky and other channels as well as BBC, ITV and boxed sets!!! However both cut their teeth on stage before TV breakthroughs.
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I loved this episode. I too have Huguenot ancestors though sadly have not be able to track them back to France. It was nice to see Derek J's enthusiasm and joy at his discoveries. He seems like a lovely man as well as a brilliant actor.
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Just don't ask him about Shakespeare ;D
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Sorry for coming into the thread extremely late, I think by several years! ...but was wondering, did they happen to mention..
His mum was Daisy Masters
Her dad was Richard Russell Masters
His mum was Bessie Francis Toull
Was her mum Francis May Jackson?
And then who was her mum?
Or did the show centre on the other relatives?
I have tried to watch the episode online, but is only available to UK residents.
Thank you for any response.
Dawn
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The programme concentrated on his French ancestry and I'm afraid I can't recall much else.
However, if you look at Wikipedia it gives his mother as Daisy Masters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Jacobi
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WDYTYA:- Actor Derek Jacobi grew up in Walthamstow, where his parents ran a market stall. But a clue in his mother's family tree hints at a more colourful past - his great-grandmother's name was Salome Laplain. Armed with this tantalising detail, Derek discovers that, far from being from humble roots as he had thought, he is in fact descended from a wealthy French Huguenot fleeing religious persecution in France - who had connections to Protestant royalty on this side of the channel.