RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: grumpier on Wednesday 26 August 15 05:14 BST (UK)
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Hello I am trying to find the birth for Bertie Alfred Leslie Monar. On his attestation form for army enlistment for WW2 it shows his date of birth as 11/9/1915 at Collingwood Victoria. My problem is that I want to find a birth certificate for him to confirm his father. I believe his father to be Bertie Walls Monar but cannot confirm that.
Bertie Walls Monar joined the army for WW1 in December 1914. On his form he is listed as single.
Bertie Alfred Leslie Monar was born 9 months later in 1915. His mother was Martha Elsie May Loughlin. Bertie Walls Monar and Martha Loughlin did not marry until 1933.(three years before Bertie Alfred Leslie Monar was married to Veronica Smith.
Martha Elsie Loughlin married Thomas Hy Jackson in Victoria in 1919. He died in 1922.
Bertie Alfred Leslie Monar also had a sister born after him but I do not have a year for that.
So I do not know if the children were born under the surname Loughlin (Mothers maiden name) Jackson (first marriage) or Monar.
I do know in the 1930's they were known as Monar.
Further to that Bertie Walls Monar did not come back to Australia from WW1 until 1919.
I hope someone may be able to help me.
Cheers
Grumpier
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Hi there,
Is this Bertie Walls MONAR?
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=7983334
embarked from Australia 25 June 1915
Cheers, JM
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Might be of interest
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fzt/
Can someone please refresh my memory on how to shorten the links :-[
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Paste long link in this http://www.rootschat.com/links/index.php
Shrinks the long link to get http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fzs/
ShrinkLink (makes long links short) is located at the bottom of Rootschat page (in brown section under "Your Tools")
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Paste long link in this http://www.rootschat.com/links/index.php
Shrinks the long link to get http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fzs/
ShrinkLink (makes long links short) is located at the bottom of Rootschat page (in brown section under "Your Tools")
Thank you for that :)
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Thankyou for your replies. Yes that is Bertie Walls Monar. As you can see by the date I doubt that he would have even known that Martha Elsie May Loughlin was pregnant when he left for the war.
The only reason that I think that he is the father is because of the first name Bertie. I think that would be too much of a coincidence. Thankyou for the links to Vic records. Unfortunately I cannot get there to view records. But thankyou all for replying.
cheers
Grumier
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Thankyou for the links to Vic records. Unfortunately I cannot get there to view records.
The link i left isnt working like i hoped it would. It was for a prison record for Bertie Monar born 1895 and also has photos of him. I saved the record so if you would a copy send me a private message with your email and i will send it.
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Might be of interest
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fzt/
Can someone please refresh my memory on how to shorten the links :-[
This is not a permanent link,
Go to http://www.rootschat.com/links/0195j/
VPRS 515
'With any of the words or numbers' MONAR
Results will show records for Bertie Snr. and his twin brother Alfred. Click on the link below their names and then open the PDF.
Debra :)
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His mother was Martha Elsie May Loughlin.
Cheers
Grumpier
This is the registration. It took place in 1936.
It is possible that the lack of earlier registration only became obvious when Bertie Alfred Leslie prepared for his marriage.
It is in the name LOUGHLIN, which was his birth surname
LOUGHLIN Bertie Alfd Leslie
Father-
Spouse Gvn Names/Mother Elsie LOUGHLIN
Birth Place CWOOD
Year 1915
Reg. 20603X1936
Sue
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Well found Sue.
"Bertie" would likely have been a very very popular name at that time, the given name for the Duke of York who became George VI was Albert.... well he was known as Bertie ....
Cheers, JM
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Wow! Thankyou so much for that birth information it solves lots of mysteries. I shall see if I can order that certificate. And also thankyou for the link giblet I did get it to work. I knew that they had a "colourful life" as I had read about them in trove but I did not have the police record or any pictures so I very much appreciate your help. This family is not mine but a friend who never knew much about his grandfather as he was not talked about.
Cheers
Grumpier
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Martha Elsie Loughlin married Thomas Hy Jackson in Victoria in 1919. He died in 1922.
Cheers
Grumpier
This is the only death of a Thomas Henry Jackson in 1922 in Victoria
JACKSON Thos Henry
Father Jackson Wm
Mother Dorothy HIGH
Death Place BEULAH
Age 64
Year 1922
Reg 439
This man I think lived in BEULAH and is on the Electoral Roll from as early as 1909 there where he is a Barman.
One Ellen JACKSON also lives in Beulah and they both continue on the Roll to 1921
Specific streets or house numbers are not given.
In 1921, the Electoral Roll shows
Address 49 Collins Street Northcote.
JACKSON, Henry Thomas, Bootmaker
JACKSON, Martha Elsie May, HD
1923
Clarence Street Preston.
JACKSON, Henry Thomas, Bootmaker
JACKSON, Martha Elsie May, HD
Likewise 1925 and 1926
You have the death of the wrong man.
Sue
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Previous marriage and divorce for Henry Thomas JACKSON, bootmaker. ::)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/7280668
The Argus 1913
Sue
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Martha used the surname MONAR from as early as 1931
1931 Electoral Roll
240 Dorcas Street Port Melbourne.
MONAR, Bertie, Driver
MONAR Elsie May, HD
Sue
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Thankyou so much for your information. Yes I must have had the wrong Thomas Jackson and thankyou for that. I shall search more for him. It is sounding more like Valda the daughter might be a Jackson. More fun there. And Martha used the Monar name from the very early 30's. Thankyou everyone for your help. I shall ring vic bdm today and ask if I can get a copy (the easy way) of the birth of Bertie Alfred Leslie which is 100 years ago, even though not registered until 1936. Can't wait to hear the reply.
Cheers
Grumpier
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A few notes regarding your last post ;D
Unless you have evidence that the daughter whose name you have listed is deceased, you must delete her name from your post. It is clear I would say, she was born after 1920.
The certificate you plan to get will not have the name of Bertie (jnr) father on it. The indexing I have given shows it is not listed.
This is theway to acquire the certificate
An uncertified image can be downloaded to your computer immediately upon payment of about Aus. $21.00. You will need the registration number which is given above on the index entry.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
This link shows what you may see on all Victorian certificates. How truthful the information is on this certificate, depends on what the person giving the information chose to convey. :o
This is what you may see on all Victorian certificates.
http://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html
And Martha used the Monar name from the very early 30's.
Cheers
Grumpier
There was no election to enrol for between 1926 and 1931, so the use of the name may have begun any time after the 1926 registration, (though I am not sure Bertie Walls MONAR was in a position to share a home with Martha during the late 1920,s according to the records which have been provided above)
Sue
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Thankyou Sue for that insight. Yes I do know that Valda is deceased and knew that I could not put her name in a post unless this was so. My friend who this family belongs to recalls going to her funeral. However I had not questioned him on her surname because at that time I was only chasing Bertie the second and I presumed she had married. As for the link to the certificate site I thankyou again for your information regarding what I would find on the certificate.
And yes I agree that they may not have lived together during that time as Bertie Walls Monar was very busy elsewhere! It is an interesting family. Five brothers all joined army in WW1, two did not make it out of Australia and I believe they may have only joined up to avoid arrest by the police.
I have never had any family in my tree as "colourful" as these and am enjoying the hunt. My friend does know about the family's past pursuits.
Thankyou again for all your help and information I really do appreciate it.
Cheers
Judy
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Martha and the Jackson fella divorced in 1931.
VIC divorce
1931
http://prov.vic.gov.au/provguide-23
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Martha and the Jackson fella divorced in 1931.
VIC divorce
1931
http://prov.vic.gov.au/provguide-23
So........? I wonder why there was a delay in the marriage as they were living together from at least 1931 and the marriage was not until 1933.
Sue
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The cost of Victorian certs purchased online and downloaded is $24. I think you will find that a 1915 birth certificate will not be available until 2016.
Cando