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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Denise1012 on Tuesday 25 August 15 20:42 BST (UK)
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I'm quite new to all this and hope that someone can help / point me in the right direction.
I'm trying to find information on my great grandmother Eliza Lockhart. I think that she was born around 1876/77 in Liverpool.
She married James Cross 1893 and died in 1925.
I can't find any more though...I'm getting nothing in marriage records / census etc
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Possible birth?
June qtr 1877
Liverpool district vol 8b, page 2
Lockhart, Elizabeth
And marriage:
March qtr 1893
Liverpool district vol 8b, page 109
Lockhart, Eliza
+ and on the same page +
Cross, James
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Is this her marriage in Liverpool?
Marriage: 28 Mar 1893 St Matthew, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
James Cross - 21, Seaman, Bachelor, Virgil St.
Eliza Lockhart - 18, Spinster, Virgil St.
Groom's Father: William Cross, Deceased, Carter
Bride's Father: Ephraim Lockhart, Deceased, Gas Maker
Witness: John Lawton, (X); Elizabeth Lawton
Married by Banns by: T. Watson
Register: Marriages 1891 - 1915, Page 36, Entry 72
Source: LDS Film 93803
From www.lan-opc.org.uk
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Or there is this birth
Births Sep 1874 (>99%)
Lockhart Elizabeth Liverpool 8b 28
From http://www.freebmd.org.uk/
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Is this her marriage in Liverpool?
Marriage: 28 Mar 1893 St Matthew, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
James Cross - 21, Seaman, Bachelor, Virgil St.
Eliza Lockhart - 18, Spinster, Virgil St.
Groom's Father: William Cross, Deceased, Carter
Bride's Father: Ephraim Lockhart, Deceased, Gas Maker
Witness: John Lawton, (X); Elizabeth Lawton
Married by Banns by: T. Watson
Register: Marriages 1891 - 1915, Page 36, Entry 72
Source: LDS Film 93803
From www.lan-opc.org.uk
HUGE thanks!!! I think that's her - ;D
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Hi I think James/Eliza and family are at Richmond Row in 1901 Eliza shown as aged 27 original could be 23?
Census Ref RG13/3423/129/2
Keyboard86
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A good site for Lancashire is(if you haven't already found it)
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.php
where you can order BMD certificates.
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There is this death
Deaths Jun 1877 (>99%)
Lockhart Elizabeth 0 Liverpool 8b 3
So perhaps your Eliza is not the one born in 1877, but the one born 1874 which also 'fits' better with her age given as 18 at the time of her wedding?
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Possible birth?
June qtr 1877
Liverpool district vol 8b, page 2
Lockhart, Elizabeth
Possible death for the above Elizabeth -
Elizabeth Lockhart
Estimated birth year - abt 1877
q2 1877
Age at Death - 0
Liverpool
Vol 8b Page 3
Burial shows her as only being two days old - how sad. Abode - 38 Paget Street.
JJ
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I see we have the same thoughts GrannyM :)
JJ
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Great minds think alike JJ ;D
Trying to find a burial for Eliza's father before 1893 but no luck so far.
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And just for interest/in case you don't know, BMD certificates can be ordered here if they don't appear on LancsBMD site mentioned earlier.
https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate
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Hmm. the only Ephraim Lockhart or similar I can find in Liverpool was b c1863 - too young to be Eliza's father. he was the son of an Ephraim (a carter) and Eliza, however Ephraim has died by the 1871 census!
Alternatively there is an Ephraim in Audley, Staffs, with daughter Elizabeth b c1874. He's a coal miner (and spelled Lockett on 1891).
the Elizabeth b Liverpool c1874 appears to be the daughter of George and Jessie. George is an iron turner
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Ephraim's widow Eliza (nee Grimes) remarries a Michael Collins in March 1881. I can;t find them on 1881 - in 1891 they are together with no offspring. Michael is an irish born dock labourer. i think they'd be in Burlington St in 1881 - this was her address on the marriage in March, and again in 1891
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Is this the same family?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=679706.0
Blue
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Thank you all for your help / suggestions.
Sadly virtually all of my family are now gone so I'm really going on half remembered stories etc to pull things together!
I do know Eliza married James around 1893 and they had a number of children...Elizabeth, James, Emily, Esther, Ephraim and William (William was my grandfather).
He always blamed his father for the death of his mother - I don't know if this was real or imagined and wouldn't talk about her, he'd get really upset.
I'm so curious about her....
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Could the mother have had Elizabeth between the death of her husband (he died in 1867) and her re-marriage (in 1881)? If so this baptism which includes both the mother's maiden name of Grimes and married name Lockhart could be the Elizabeth we are looking for. Can anyone find a married couple called John Grimes and Elizabeth Lockhart? Did they exist as a couple or is this a fiction to disguise the parentage?
Name: Elizabeth Maria Grimes
Birth Date: 21 Dec 1873
Baptism Date: 30 Apr 1886
Parish: St Sylvester RC Liverpool
Father's name: Joannis Grimes
Mother's name: Elizabeth Lockhart
Blue
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This child was born in 1871, died in 1873 aged 2 years and was buried at Walton Park. Deceased has been entered for the father's occupation. We know the father died in 1867 so can't be the child's father:-
Name: Robert Lockhart
Baptism Date: 13 Jun 1871
Parish: Liverpool, St Martin-in-the-Fields
Father's name: Ephraim Lockhart
Mother's name: Eliza Lockhart
Address: 2 Court Hornby Street
Occupation: Deceased
Blue
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This is the burial record for the Ephraim (sometimes recorded as Aphram/Abram/Abraham) Lockhart who was the father of the Ephraim Lockhart who married Margaret. It looks like he died in the workhouse hospital:-
Name: Lockhart, Ephraim
Buried : 26 November 1867
Place: Anfield Cemetery - Consecrated Section
Age: 33 years
Occupation: Labourer
Address: Workhouse
District: Liverpool
Folio: 495
Running Number: 9892
Burial Type: Public Grave
Section: 14
Grave: 618
Funeral: Revd, J W Welsh
Registrar: Geo Turvey
Reference: 352 CEM 6/1/2
Blue
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This is the burial record for the Ephraim (sometimes recorded as Aphram/Abram/Abraham) Lockhart who was the father of the Ephraim Lockhart who married Margaret. It looks like he died in the workhouse hospital:-
Name: Lockhart, Ephraim
Buried : 26 November 1867
Place: Anfield Cemetery - Consecrated Section
Age: 33 years
Occupation: Labourer
Address: Workhouse
District: Liverpool
Folio: 495
Running Number: 9892
Burial Type: Public Grave
Section: 14
Grave: 618
Funeral: Revd, J W Welsh
Registrar: Geo Turvey
Reference: 352 CEM 6/1/2
Blue
Appreciated but I can't place a "Margaret"? Can you explain your thoughts please?
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Margaret is the wife of the younger Ephraim b c1863, son of Ephraim/Abraham and Eliza
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I'm wondering if lines have become confused?
I know that the marriage information is correct so her father, although deceased then was a "gas maker". Also from what I know the family was staunchly protestant - to the extent that it created many problems when my grandparents married!
Apologies if I'm confusing matters..
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< I know that the marriage information is correct so her father, although deceased then was a "gas maker" >
The marriage as in spouses is correct - the accuracy of the other information such as fathers depends on the honesty of the spouses!
We have been trying to find an Eliza on the census who could fit yours - father Ephraim, Liverpool connections. The best fit we can find for Ephraim unfortunately died before Eliza was born. Ephraim married an Eliza Grimes who might have had a child called Eliza in around 1874 (swapping her maiden and married names over on the baptism)
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Thank you....I think as I'm fairly new to all this I'm getting more and more confused!!
So many stories were told too...it's hard pulling fact from fiction.
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can anyone help with latin (ages since I did my o level). Can see the entry for the ELizabeth maria RC baptism - there is something written alongside, that looks a bit like
Subconditione baptizata est quid fam antea ina (?) ecclesia acatholica bap tizata fuit
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The child was either baptised non RC or there was uncertainty over whether the child was baptised RC. Often involves converts, mixed marriages etc. See here:-
http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/forum/topic6707.html
Ephraim junior converted:-
Name: Ephrem Lockhart
Birth Date: 5 Sep 1864
Baptism Date: 24 Mar 1891
Parish: St Sylvester RC Liverpool
Father's name: Abram Lockhart
Mother's name: Elizabeth Gonnes [Grimes]
"Lockhart
Subconditione
Conversus a
Protestantism"
[Subconditione converted from Protestantism]
Blue
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The second husband of Eliza Lockhart (the mother) was irish - maybe that's where the catholic influence came from