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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: toni2502 on Saturday 22 August 15 17:42 BST (UK)

Title: England Pallot's marriage index
Post by: toni2502 on Saturday 22 August 15 17:42 BST (UK)
Hi,

I have found a family member named Hannah Dawes who married a Francis Courtenay in the England Pallot's marriage index, married at St.Marylebone, but have no date of marriage, names of parents of Bride and Groom, etc. I have been struggling for months and months now. Any info on anything to do with this marriage will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Toni
Title: Re: England Pallot's marriage index
Post by: Bookbox on Saturday 22 August 15 18:24 BST (UK)
Hi, and welcome to RootsChat  :)

This marriage is not coming up in the online version of Pallot's Marriage Index. Where did you get the details? Can you please double-check your source?

Pallot's Marriage Index covers marriages 1780-1837, so even if you can find this marriage you're not going to get parents' names from it. Fathers' names are not normally given in marriage records before 1837. Mothers' names aren't normally given at all, even up to the present day.

Maybe we can help in other ways? What is your starting-point for Hannah Dawes and Francis Courtenay? Do you have details of their children? Any census returns for either of them?
Title: Re: England Pallot's marriage index
Post by: ..claire.. on Saturday 22 August 15 19:00 BST (UK)
Hi,

And welcome to RootsChat  :)

A child to the couple ?

Francis Charles Courtenay bp. 24 Dec 1841 ( born 13 Oct 1841) St Mary, St Marylebone
Parents: Francis BURDETT Courtenay and Hannah Dawes ( record found on Anc* )

The only marriage I can find in Pallots is between Francis Burdett Coutenay and Eliza Watts in 1835  ???

claire
Title: Re: England Pallot's marriage index
Post by: ..claire.. on Saturday 22 August 15 19:06 BST (UK)
Does this fit in

Francis Burdett Courtenay baptized 27 Mar 1813 St Andrews Holborn, parents Charles Baron and Ann Courtenay.
Address: 107 Hatton Garden
Fathers Occ.  Surgeon

Two other children baptized to the couple that day were Charles Baron and Jane Courtenay.

claire
Title: Re: England Pallot's marriage index
Post by: stanmapstone on Saturday 22 August 15 19:28 BST (UK)
names of parents of Bride and Groom, etc.

 Under Hardwicke's Marriage Act 1753, the information recorded in the register is the Parish, County, and year. the names of the bride and groom, the parishes they were from, the name of the Church, whether the marriage was by banns or licence, the consent of the parents if either of the couple were under the age of 21, the date of the marriage, the signature of the minister, the signatures of the couple and the signatures of the witnesses. Parents and Occupations are not shown.

Stan
Title: Re: England Pallot's marriage index
Post by: toni2502 on Sunday 23 August 15 20:26 BST (UK)
Hi,everyone and Thank you for your replies.My story starts with  Francis Burdett Courtenay who was a surgeon and who's parents were indeed Charles Barron Courtenay and Ann Bolton. He Married Eliza Watts in 1835 I believed this to be my ancestors. Then I found  Francis Charles Courtenay Dawes also a surgeon who I believed to be their son.But after some digging, found out He was Baptised in 1841 St.Marylebone with names of his parents being Francis Burdett Courtenay and Hannah Dawes. Father Surgeon After a hint from Ancestry.co.uk telling me there was the English Pallot with names of Dawes Dawes and Courtenay Courtenay so I thought they must of married and there must be another Francis Burdett Courtenay Surgeon who also lived in Hatton Gardan??? Also confused as to why he took his Mothers surname. On his marriage certificate in 1861 to Mary ann Hill his name was indeed Francis Charles Courtenay Dawes. I am So grateful for any more info and Help you can give me. Kind Regards Toni
Title: Re: England Pallot's marriage index
Post by: bevj on Sunday 23 August 15 21:00 BST (UK)
I see that on his marriage he gives his father's name as Francis Burdett Courtenay Dawes.
Is it not likely that he was simply illegitimate and mother Harriet was not married to Francis B. Courtenay?
Bev
Title: Re: England Pallot's marriage index
Post by: ..claire.. on Sunday 23 August 15 21:25 BST (UK)
Hi

Solved the problem  :)

If you check the census's it would seem Eliza Watts and Francis Burdett Courtenay had no children of their own, however Francis was a naughty boy  :)

Check the 1841 census

Great Marlborough Street

Eliza Courtney 26  (Francis's wife)
Jane        "        25   (     "    sister)
Francis    "      31  surgeon
William Ellis     64  Ind.                            not bn in county
Amelia Austin 36 F.S (female servant)    "     "         "
Joseph    "      45 M.S (man servant)       "     "         "
HANNAH DAWES 18  FEMALE SERVANT  "     "          "

Class: HO107; Piece: 735; Book: 1; Civil Parish: St James; Folio: 14; Page: 20; Line: 15

The entry on Anc* only lists Eliza, Jane and Francis but the image itself shows the rest of the household

claire
Title: Re: England Pallot's marriage index
Post by: toni2502 on Monday 24 August 15 18:56 BST (UK)
Is it not likely that he was simply illegitimate and mother Harriet was not married to Francis B. Courtenay?

Thanks, just found out this is correct.
Title: Re: England Pallot's marriage index
Post by: toni2502 on Monday 24 August 15 19:04 BST (UK)
Hi

Solved the problem  :)

If you check the census's it would seem Eliza Watts and Francis Burdett Courtenay had no children of their own, however Francis was a naughty boy  :)

Check the 1841 census

Great Marlborough Street

Eliza Courtney 26  (Francis's wife)
Jane        "        25   (     "    sister)
Francis    "      31  surgeon
William Ellis     64  Ind.                            not bn in county
Amelia Austin 36 F.S (female servant)    "     "         "
Joseph    "      45 M.S (man servant)       "     "         "
HANNAH DAWES 18  FEMALE SERVANT  "     "          "

Class: HO107; Piece: 735; Book: 1; Civil Parish: St James; Folio: 14; Page: 20; Line: 15

The entry on Anc* only lists Eliza, Jane and Francis but the image itself shows the rest of the household

claire

Thank you, this has made my day I will take a look at the 1841 census and prehaps find out more about Hannah Dawes, how very naughty of my 2nd Great Grandfather, He must of provided for his son because he also become a Surgeon and he went on to marry a lady who's father was also a surgeon.But I have looked and looked for any other info on Francis Charles Courtenay Dawes and his wife Mary ann nee hill. How do I go about looking for Death certificates etc I know they had 3 children including my Great Grandfather another Francis Burdett Courtenay Kind regards Toni
Title: Re: England Pallot's marriage index
Post by: sillgen on Tuesday 25 August 15 08:14 BST (UK)
You can look for death registrations on www.freebmd.org.uk    That is a free site though not full coverage yet.   Otherwise the full register is on paying sites such as findmypast    To see the details you have to order the certificates from the GRO but once you have an idea of date you can also look for burials in parish records.
Title: Re: England Pallot's marriage index
Post by: ..claire.. on Wednesday 26 August 15 00:33 BST (UK)
Hi

I cant find deaths for deaths for them either  ???

But I have found something else quite interesting... Francis Burdett Coutenay was a naughty boy again, he did have another child in 1851. FRANCES MARIA COURTENAY, possible birth registration March Qtr. 1851 as Frances Maria Burdett.

 She is on the census with him in 1871 when he's widowed but not before, and is an executor in his probate record.

And her marriage details

3rd April 1878 All Souls Church

Walter Miller Lambert   bach full age  Captain RMA of Miltn, Portsea. Father: Richard Lambert~ gentleman of Lyston Hall, Essex

Frances Maria Courtenay  a spins. full age of Langham Place St Marylebone. Father: Francis Burdett Courtenay ~ surgeon

Both signed register.

Trying to find out who her mother is ;D

I'm intrigued !!

claire

Title: Re: England Pallot's marriage index
Post by: toni2502 on Wednesday 26 August 15 11:47 BST (UK)
Hi

I cant find deaths for deaths for them either  ???

But I have found something else quite interesting... Francis Burdett Coutenay was a naughty boy again, he did have another child in 1851. FRANCES MARIA COURTENAY, possible birth registration March Qtr. 1851 as Frances Maria Burdett.

 She is on the census with him in 1871 when he's widowed but not before, and is an executor in his probate record.

And her marriage details

3rd April 1878 All Souls Church

Walter Miller Lambert   bach full age  Captain RMA of Miltn, Portsea. Father: Richard Lambert~ gentleman of Lyston Hall, Essex

Frances Maria Courtenay  a spins. full age of Langham Place St Marylebone. Father: Francis Burdett Courtenay ~ surgeon

Both signed register.

Trying to find out who her mother is ;D

I'm intrigued !!

claire

Hello, I also found this young lady, but always put her in my shoebox, because I did'nt know if Francis Burdett courteney  was indeed my 2nd Great grandfather.He was a very interesting character, I believe he even wrote a couple of books!!! I believed he must have died after his son Francis Charles as indeed no money was left to him in his will,unless they had a falling out :D.If you find Any more news it  would be so very appreciated. Thank you again Toni
Title: Death of Francis Charles Courtenay (Dawes)
Post by: toni2502 on Friday 05 February 16 15:22 GMT (UK)
Hi , I would love it if you could again help in my quest. I know Francis Charles Courtenay (Dawes) married a Mary ann Hill and had 3 children Francis Burdett 1862, Edward William 1863 and Minnie ELizabeth 1866. Mary Ann then went on to re-marry a Alfred Morland Faulkner and it states she was a widow in 1874 she had already 2 children before then. So I know Francis Charles must have died somewhere between 1866 and 1872, but I can not find any details :'( Would love some advice. Kind regards Toni Mason
Title: Re: England Pallot's marriage index
Post by: josey on Friday 05 February 16 15:38 GMT (UK)
Apropos reply #11. More about Frances Maria
http://www.geni.com/people/Frances-Lambert/6000000013762878017
No success in finding her mother.