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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Jomot on Friday 21 August 15 00:15 BST (UK)
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I convinced myself months ago that the 1845 burial of 11-year-old orphan Sarah Ann Gibson at St Mary's, Paddington Green couldn't possibly be the same Sarah Ann who was orphaned in the small village of Twyford, Leicestershire just 10 months earlier. Well having failed to find her anywhere else I finally ordered the death certificate and bingo, its her - but how?
I know that parishes often tried to apprentice their poor in other parishes as that's where they would then gain settlement, but I would have thought that London parishes had more than enough poor of their own without taking them from elsewhere?
The address on the death certificate was 9 Saint Petersburgh Place, Bayswater, and on the burial it was the Orphan School, Petersburg Place. Slightly different spellings but clearly the same place. A 1911 photograph shows it to be a 4-story house and in 1851 it housed just 20 orphans aged 9-14, although the neighbours appear relatively wealthy, including solicitors clerks & members of the stock exchange.
Is it likely that she was simply a parish apprentice within an orphanage, or can anyone come up with a better explanation as to how she ended up there?
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I really can't help, but my first thought was might she have had family in London which is why she was sent there? Maybe they were unable to care for her and sent her to the Orphan School?
Was it a fee paying school with her fees being paid by someone? It sounds like a fairly small exclusive establishment, so maybe the title of "Orphan School" gives the wrong impression? If she was really poor would she have just been put in the workhouse? :-\
Pure speculation and guess work on my part.
It might be worth investigating the school though which might give you some clues.
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If the home was St Matthew's Home for Female Orphans then entrance to the home was by election of the charity's subscribers and the payment of a fee of £4. So some society or person must have paid this fee presumably to better the child's chance for finding future employment. http://www.childrenshomes.org.uk/BayswaterStMatthew/
Kay
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The address for St Matthews is Victoria Grove/Ossington St. :-\
I did look for references to the St Petersburgh Place Orphan School and though I found lots of interesting information (including mention of fees, training etc as per St Matthews) I didn't find an obvious reference to this place. I might be missing something though. The issue with this search is the street name which throws up lots of Russian references. :-\
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The address for St Matthews is Victoria Grove/Ossington St. :-\
Oh dear - back to square one :-\
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Related thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=709392.0
In which Jorose says St Matthews address is in St Petersburgh Place, however in Kay's link it is Victoria St. Maybe it was originally at St Petersburgh Place then moved to Victoria St?.
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Just to confirm: I meant that St. Matthew's, the church, is on St Petersburgh Place:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Matthew%27s,_Bayswater
And Victoria Grove/Ossington St. is very close - perhaps it was moved?
I couldn't figure out where the school was in 1845 - perhaps staff members mentioned in the 1851 census for the school that was on St Petersburgh Place could be traced forward?
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In 1851 the orphanage on St Petersburgh Place had a Head/Matron/school governess Ann Manger - age 27 born Brailes, Warwickshire and a sub matron/teacher Jane Franklin, Wingfield??. Sussex plus their 19 female orphans. A lot of responsilbity for just two young women.
In 1861 an Orphanage was at 10 Victoria Grove Terrrace with Matron Jane Franklin age 31 b Brailes, Warwickshire (presumably the birth places were mixed in Head and Assistant in 1851) plus and assistant and 18 girls. Looks like the same orphanage :)
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Thanks for all the comments & ideas so far.
I've been trying to work out whether St Matthews Home for Female Orphans and "the Orphan school" were two different places or whether perhaps the home/school became St Matthews Home for Female Orphans at a later date, but I'm still not sure either way. I certainly haven't found any references to St Matthews as early as 1845.
If it was fee paying then I really don't know who would have paid it as all records indicate the entire family were as poor as church mice. I tried to see if there was any connection to the military as Sarah Ann's father had been pensioned out in 1818, but I didn't find anything to suggest that was the case.
Her death was registered by 'Caroline Marsh present at the death' but I haven't had much luck tracing her forward either :-\
Sarah Ann had a younger sister, Eliza (my GG Grandmother), who would have been 2 when her father died in 1840, and 6 when her mother died. I'm not sure where she was placed after her parents died but in 1851 she was recorded as sister/visitor at the home of two older sisters in Twyford, and 5 years later gave birth to my G Grandfather in the Melton Mowbray workhouse.
I have a long list of records to trawl through when I eventually manage to get to Leicester so its looking like that may be my only hope of finding out anything - it certainly is a puzzler though.
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Although I asked if you knew where she was born on your other thread I never gave a reason for my inquiry. If she was born in a London parish then when she was orphaned the parish she was living in at that time would have had her removed to her birth parish.
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Although I asked if you knew where she was born on your other thread I never gave a reason for my inquiry. If she was born in a London parish then when she was orphaned the parish she was living in at that time would have had her removed to her birth parish.
As far as I know she was born in Twyford, Leicestershire - at least that's where she was baptised on 16 Feb 1834. Her next eldest sibling was baptised there in 1832 and the family is recorded there as far back as 1786 so I've no reason to think she was born anywhere else - but then I didn't think she would have died in London either......
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The problem is that the baptism is not always carried out at the place of birth. Difficult!
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Hi Jomot,
I have found the name of the orphan school. It was the Bayswater Episcopal Chapel Female Orphan School . I found it in an old book, digitized on Google Books: The Charities of London 1852-53, published 1854 London.
The address of this school matches that of the 1851 Census entry for the school run by Ann Manger and Jane Franklin, 9 Peterburgh Place. Apparently it moved to Victoria Grove Terr. before 1861.
At first, I jumped to the conclusion that an Episcopal Chapel was Wesleyan Methodist because in my American research I have found English Weslayans calling themselves Episcopal Methodists. I don't have time to look into the history at the moment, but whatever the denomination, the Bayswater school was a church charity school.
I snipped the short paragraph from the book and will try to attach it.
hth,
Carmela
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That certainly looks like the same place but the OP gave the address as 9 Saint Petersburgh Place, Bayswater, and the cutting gives the address as Peterborough Place. :-\
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Hi Ruskie,
I think it is the same place regardless of spelling difference. Don't think it is likely that there would be two different orphan schools, each at no. 9 Peterb----- or St. Peterb----- Place.
Did a quick map check and it seems that there was no Peterborough Place, so probably just a spelling mistake.
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Yes I did wonder if it was an error ... :)
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Hi Jomot,
I have found the name of the orphan school. It was the Bayswater Episcopal Chapel Female Orphan School . I found it in an old book, digitized on Google Books: The Charities of London 1852-53, published 1854 London.
Oooh - what a fantastic find !!
From the information that it had opened 13-years previously it would seem that Sarah Ann was one of the early intake, although I'm still scratching my head as to how on earth she ended up there. I had just started to look into an extremely tentative link between the family & a charity school in Leicester, so having the correct name and the names of some of the people involved just might be the key to finding a connection.
Thank you, I really appreciate it.
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If it was established in 1839 and Sarah was buried in 1845 after being orphaned 10 months earlier, then she would have been there in the 5th or 6th year after it's inception.