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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: tom-dick on Thursday 20 August 15 07:23 BST (UK)
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Sarah Jane Arnott nee Leech was on the s.s.hare when it was sunk by a German submarine in 1917.I am trying to find out if anyone else is trying to find out the history of the crew and boat.I know it was used un 1913 to bring in food for strikers in Dublin.Did the s.s. hare do the same route to England and back?thank you for your time,tom
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Lots of info online!
For example:
http://awaken-longford.com/2013/08/27/a-little-piece-of-1913-lockout-history-close-to-my-heart/
and a previous RootsChat thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=394893.0
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The crew who died are commemorated on Tower Hill Memorial, and can be found on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website (CWGC.org).
Search for date of death as 14th December 1917, serving in Merchant Navy, commemorated in UK.
Swords, Joseph Edward Mate
Walsh, Charles Fireman
Wilson, James First Engineer
Hopkins, Joseph Able Seaman
Arnott, Sarah Jane Stewardess
Boyle, John Fireman
Brennen, James Fireman
Byre, William Fireman
MacFadyen, Lachlan Carpenter
McLanders, Bruce Fireman
McMenamie, Donald Ordinary Seaman
Eley, Daniel Cook
Gilchrist, Donald Second Mate
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thank you,kgarrad.I hope to get in contact with a descendant soon.I will let you know if I do,thank you once again,tom
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Hi tom-dick, are you still interested in finding out more about the crew of the S.S. Hare? I'm trying to track down descendant's as well. Maybe we can share what we have discovered? davidcotter
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Hello David,I have tried with little success to find out any information on the other crew members or their descendants.I was trying to find out before the centenary but hopefully there will be a renewed interest as it gets nearer to the 100 year anniversary.Do you know anything on the other crew or if they are doing anything for the 100 year event.I live in Australia,talk again soon,Tom
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Research was undertaken by an ancestor of William Byrne and a little detail is given here - LINK (http://www.eneclann.ie/2016/03/behind-the-scenes-in-the-genealogy-advisory-service-4/)
Tom
The memorial register refers to Sarah as the daughter of "William and Dora McLEAN (nee LEECH)"
Sarah's maiden name was McLEAN and her mother's maiden name was LEECH
William McLEAN married Dorah LEECH 1869 Dublin South Q- V2 P692
Sarah Jane McCLEAN was born Feb 07 1876 - Balrothery 1869 Q- V2 P484
She married Henry ARNOTT on Jul 27 1899 in Edinburgh
Sarah Jane ARNOTT nee McLEAN on 1901 census - LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003677625/)
at #39 in Drishogue, Millmount Ave. (Drumcondra, Dublin) with family and eldest son
Children
Henry William ARNOTT b 1900 Hartlepool, Durham, UK Q2 V10a P173
- shown on 1911 census at - LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002339924/); #6 in Tubrid (Drumrush, Fermanagh)
Andrew John ARNOTT b 1902 Hartlepool, Durham, UK Q2 V10a P190
- shown on 1911 census at - LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000250489/); #24 in Sandycove Road (Kingstown No. 4, Dublin)
Rhoda McLean ARNOTT b 1904 Hartlepool, Durham, UK Q4 V10a P133
- shown on 1911 census at - LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000246427/); #1.2 in Corrig Road (Kingstown No. 2, Dublin)
Rhoda married in 1934 Dublin North Q2 V2 P231 Arthur Grenfell CLARKE
Sarah Jane is in Roscommon at #6 in Derrycashel (Lissonuffy, Roscommon) in 1911 - LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003236743)
She is described as married and there is an online military record for a Henry ARNOTT of the 13th Hussars which ties in with the marriage date; his DoD is shown as 04.02.1939
LINK to previous RC Topic (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=663815.9)
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Joseph HOPKINS
Birth 1870 - LINK (http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/f538535242249)
Baptism 1870 - LINK (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/97a04a0353949)
Father Francis HOPKINS & Mother Sarah SHERIDAN married 1865 - LINK (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/29c5620449618)
Children - at least 7 (1911 census states 8 born alive - 7 living)
Sarah 1866; Francis 1868; Joseph 1870; William c1877; Patrick 1878; John 1880; and Mary c1884
Sarah HOPKINS widowed on 1901 census with three sons - LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003697292/) at #278.1 in Thomas Street (Ringsend) (Pembroke East & Donnybrook, Dublin)
Joseph HOPKINS married Emily O'SULLIVAN on Jun 01 1897
on 1901 census with two sons - LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003697458/) at #53.1 in Thorne Castle Street (Pembroke East & Donnybrook, Dublin)
His brother Francis lived on the same road - LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Pembroke_East___Donnybrook/Thorne_Castle_Street/1286379/)
on 1911 census with 6 children - LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000116572/) at #7 in Pembroke Cottages (Pembroke East, Dublin)
His brother Francis and family are still on the same road - LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Pembroke_East/Pembroke_Cottages/48184/)
His mother Sarah HOPKINS in 1911 - LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000115189/) at#12.3 in Irishtown Road (Pembroke East, Dublin)
Grand daughter Katie HOEY on 1911 census is daughter of Sarah HOPKINS and John HOEY m. 1891
1901 census for family - LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Pembroke_East___Donnybrook/Thomas_Street__Ringsend_/1286305/) at #284.1 in Thomas Street (Ringsend) (Pembroke East & Donnybrook, Dublin)
The family are not as a unit in 1911 and looks as if son John is in Artane and daughter Maria in institution; daughter Sarah not obvious but there is a death in 1910 aged 14 Dublin South Q1 V2 P535 that is possibly her
There is a death of Sarah HOEY aged 37 in 1905 Dublin South Q1 V2 P522 and John HOEY aged 40 in 1905 Dublin South Q4 V2 P487; he has a workhouse admission for tuberculosis died Dec 15 1905
Emily HOPKINS on register of electors up to 1945
There is a death in Dublin North Q4 V2 P247 aged 69 which maybe her
There are marriages that may be Joseph's children but would need checking to be 100% certain
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Hi tom-dick & myluck! thanks for getting back to us and for the useful record details. Indeed, I'm assisting a friend of mine whose descendant is Joseph Hopkins. She is keen to link up with other descendants of those who went down with the Ship. Are you by any chance descendants? There is some interest amongst trade union activists and local historians to make the centenary in some small way and to involve descendants. Ideas are welcome!
davidcotter
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Philip Hopkins son of Francis and Ellen
http://www.irishmariners.ie/searchdatabase.php?srch_surname=hopkins&srch_forename=philip&srch_identityno=&srch_yob=&submit=Search
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Hi tom-dick & myluck! thanks for getting back to us and for the useful record details. Indeed, I'm assisting a friend of mine whose descendant is Joseph Hopkins. She is keen to link up with other descendants of those who went down with the Ship. Are you by any chance descendants? There is some interest amongst trade union activists and local historians to make the centenary in some small way and to involve descendants. Ideas are welcome!
davidcotter
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Hi David
I am not descended from, or related to, anyone who was on the ship
Just from a research interest I looked up another person to help start a search for you ;)
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Joseph SWORDS
Joseph Edward SWORDS born Aug 28 1880
Born: 1880 Rathdown Q3 V2 P902 - LINK (http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/7f65a13680367)
Baptised: 1880 August 29th in Dalkey
Father: Joseph SWORDS (F Michael) and Mother: Rose ARCHBOLD (F George)
married May 02 1870 - LINK (http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/3befb111206508) with match LINK (http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/492c2b11145507)
1901 census - LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003740630/) living at #18 in Convent Road (Dalkey, Dublin)
1911 census - LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000237988/) living at #22 in Convent Road (Dalkey, Dublin)
Joseph SWORDS senior died in 1905 aged 63 - LINK (http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/f11bdf13088000)
Their children were:
1. 1871 Jan 31 Michael (seaman) - m. Teresa HOLLYWOOD Oct 29 1924 in St. Andrew's Westland Row
2. 1872 Apr 20 Mary; died 1921 unmarried LINK (http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/c517829077065)
3. 1874 May 14 Elizabeth (Lily) ?
4. 1876 May 02 Rosanne; m. Michael MAGUIRE Jul 04 1906; 1911 census (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000238431/) at #4 in Mount Vella (Dalkey, Dublin)
There is one online family trees on a paid site that shows Rosanne also married to a Michael Anthony SAURIN at the same time! LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Meath/Duleek/Garballagh/709468/)
I believe that this tree has confused two Rosannes
I believe that the MAGUIRE marriage is correct and that her daughter Norah married Arthur Daniel BAKER as there are several trees including her - Norah died in 1955 but had at least 6 children if trees correct.
5. 1878 May 29 Josephine; died 1890 aged 11 LINK (http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/79636f14370916)
6. 1880 Aug 28 Joseph Edward (seaman); died Dec 14 1917 on SS Hare
7. 1883 May 21 Sophia; died 1949 unmarried LINK (http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/ee1dce7869252)
8. 1886 Jan 18 George (seaman); alive still on ship crews in 1919
9. 1888 May 05 Margaret; possible death in 1945 if still unmarried
10. 1890 Jun 29 Edward; worked for Guinness; died Jan 26 1944
11. 1893 Jan 28 John Francis (seaman); joined the Friars of the Atonement Garrison, Putnam, NY and became a Brother; his 1942 US World War II Draft Registration Card is online
Rose wrote on the 1911 census that she had eleven children of which nine were still alive,
however to me it looks as if ten were alive! subject to record checks and confirmation of course
LINK (https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3Aswords~%20%2Bbirth_place%3Adublin~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1870-1900~%20%2Bmother_surname%3Aarchbold~%20%2Brecord_country%3AIreland) to search on familysearch.org
Although a large family it immediately looks as Joseph had very few ancestors but there are siblings that require further research and confirmation
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Thank you Myluck and Dathai,for you research.I had tried to get into the Kew site before with no success before.I will try again later.I think I had been in contact with a descendant of one person on the S.S.HARE,I am looking to see where I put the paperwork.I do hope that a plaque or some sort of recognition is done for the centenary.Sarah was my great aunt.Unfortunately,her son William died in a torpedo attack in W.W.2.Once again thank you all for your help,tom
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There is a memorial in Kilmore Quay that mentions six of those lost on the SS Hare - not quite sure why all are not included
http://www.irishships.com/kilmore_quay_memorial.html
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Robert William TRAVERS
born Feb 08 1892 Southampton
to George Alfred TRAVERS and Alexandra DENTON
Navy seaman #4127/A ref IC 9024/1918
married Nov 21 1916 Q4 V86 P401 Caroline Louisa SMITH
she is shown as his widow on his medal card; living at 21 Aston Street, Edge Hill, Liverpool
she died in 1979
Robert had at least six siblings
George A 1889-1960 m. Ella FRYATT 1917 had at least 6 children
Lilian A 1895-1930 m.? probably not
Benjamin 1896-1976 m. Annie STRIDE 1922 ? children
Ernest H 1899-1984 m.? probably not
Albert E 1902-1974 m.? probably not
Edward 1903- ?
Family are on the UK 1901 and 1911 census returns
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Daniel ELEY
was born 152 in Bermondsey, London to Daniel and Ellen ELEY
He married Susan MOULE c1876
Children
Jan 20 1878 Minnie
Apr 07 1879 Florence
1881 Daniel; m. Fanny Allen ROSS Nov 30 1908 in Rusholme
Family listed on census returns at
1881 Bermondsey, London
1891 Bermondsey, London
1901 Bermondsey, London without Daniel Snr
1911 South Manchester without Daniel Jnr
Daniel Jnr is shown as a boarder in 1911 in Kings Norton; he was an advertising Expert
His wife Fanny Allen ELEY is in Liscard, Cheshire shown as married 2 years with no children
They may have had children after this time
Daniel ELEY is referred to in records as Mariner, Steward or Ship Steward etc.
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myluck,thank you for the link on the memorial in kilmore,I presume that is in Wexford?I had a good look at the S.S.Hare piece.I think that the names on it are people that were born in Ireland only.They have my great aunt as,Mrs Arland instead of Mrs Arnott.Once again,thank you very much for your time.I am going to write to them and let them know of their mistake.
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Yes Kilmore Quay is in Co. Wexford
It is possible that only Irish born people were added to the memorial but in 1917 Ireland was not a Republic. Of course the names could have been added later.
As Sarah was the only female it does look like her name is incorrect
Hopefully anyone interested in the future may find this topic and have a start in locating those lost at sea
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have a look at this site
Fiona Hallinan and Katie Sanderson, Fiona is an artist base in Dublin, The Hare is named in Honour of the SS Hare
www.notalittlepony.com
come down the page and click on The Hare
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tom-dick
Sarah was reported in the newspapers of the day as ARLAND which was probably caused by a reporter mishearing the name
Some articles state ARLAND/ARNOTT
Two different, but sister papers, Evening Herald Thurs Dec 20 1917 and Irish Independent Fri. Dec 21 1917 reported
"Mrs. Arland (Arnott?) the stewardess who was one of the drowned, was a widow with 4 young children, and was noted amognst her neighbours as a kindly, amiable lady, much attached to her children, with whom the greatest sympathy is felt."
The SS Hare lies in a general sea depth of 60m and is orientated NE-SW and is largely intact.
As the SS Hare is over 100 years old, it is protected and a license is required to dive the site
infomar.ie record that 12 people died
Reports vary on the number in the crew between 21 and 22 however on reading the reports of the day there were at least 23 named as onboard - 11 drowned and 12 survived:
KGarrad's earlier list includes three men who died on the SS Coila the same day:
James BRENNEN, Bruce McLANDERS and Donal McMENAMIE
The twelve people who drowned are: LINK for reference (https://www.irishfamilyhistorycentre.com/article/behind-the-scenes-in-the-genealogy-advisory-service-1)
1. Sarah Jane ARNOTT nee McLEAN, Stewardess
2. John BOYLE, Fireman
3. William BYRNE, Fireman
4. Daniel ELEY, Cook
5. Donald GILCHRIST, First Mate
6. Joseph HOPKINS, Sailor
7. Lachlan MacFADYAN, Carpenter
8. Joseph SWORDS, Chief Officer
9. Robert William TRAVERS, Gun-layer
10. Charles WALSH, Fireman
11. John E. WALTERS, Gunlayer
12. James WILSON, First Engineer
Eleven people who survived are:
1. Captain CARMICHAEL, Master
2. Thomas BROWN, Fireman of Pigeon House Road,Dublin
3. John CONDRON, Able seaman of Somerset St., Dublin
4. Richard Daly, ? of Clarence St., Dublin
5. John FORD, Bullockman of Erne St., Dublin
6. John HUNT, Donkeyman of Brunswick St., Dublin
7. Patrick KEOWN, Able seaman of Sheriff St., Dublin
8. Edward LYONS, Greaser of ?
9. William McGOWAN, Able seaman of Pigeon House Road,Dublin
10. John SMITH, Second Engineer of Church Road, Dublin
11. Christopher TALLANT, ? of Leslie Ave, Dalkey
There are articles held at the Genealogy Society of Ireland in Dun Laoghaire by Dermot Hopkins
An Account of the Last Voyage of the SS Hare - December 1917, GSI, 2007, Vol. 8, No. 1, Page 19; and A Sequel to the SS Hare Story, GSI, 2010, Vol. 11, No. 1, Page 24
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Lachlan MacFADYAN
Born Tiree Scotland to Alexander and Flora MacFADYAN (with various spellings)
LINK (http://www.keithdash.net/GenRecords/Part2rev22.2.11.pdf) to detailed online tree
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My luck,thank you for your research.the newspaper article was very interesting.It is good to have the names of the survivors as well.I got the name of the captain of the u-boat.His name was Commander Ernst Hashagen,1885-1947.he was very good at his command and an interesting character after the war,thank you for your time,tom
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no problem
I wish you well with your research
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most of those who died can be found here with their previous history on ships including the Hare re Lachlan MacFadyan best to enter his name as Mcfad* Lac* as there are several different spellings for his name
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/cl/index.jsp
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thank you dathai for your help,good reading,tom