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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: emorrisn on Thursday 20 August 15 02:16 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone!
I was wondering if I could please ask for assistance on where to search next...I've hit a bit of a wall and not sure what to do/where to go!
I am searching for the ancestors of Thomas Morrison (born about 1835, married Janet LAUCHLAN 3/11/1859 in Paisley, Renfrew, died after 1909)
On his marriage certificate his parents are listed as:
Alexander Morrison
Margaret Peacocks (although it could be a little scrawl at the end, even a 's..so could turn up to be Peacock, Peacocks, or Peacock's)
Both Alexander and Margaret are listed as deceased on Thomas' marriage certificate I have in 1859.
I have no other information on them besides they are probably from Paisley, Renfrew (as the majority of our Morrisons in our tree are Weavers from Paisley)
I have searched scotlandspeople and am turning up nothing in both the old parish registers/catholic/statutory registers. I've spent credits in vain searching for death certificates etc!
To confuse matters, over on Ancestry there are records and family trees that list an Alexander Morrison and Margaret Peacock:
Margaret Peacock (1790 - 1859)
Spouse
Alexander Morrison (1779-1861)
Married 1807
Children
Janet (1807-)
Alexander (1809-)
William (1811-)
Henrietta (1815-)
James (1816-)
John (1819-)
Helen (1821-)
Patrick Hutchon (1823-)
Is it strange to find the same names about 15 yrs too early. Have messaged the owner of one these trees with these details and they thought perhaps my Thomas is related in the childrens generation if that makes sense? What are the chances of another Margaret Peacock marrying the Alexander though?
Or maybe I need to scrap these family trees and say they are definitely not related at all. I even thought could there be a mistake on Thomas' marriage certificate?
Does anyone have any thoughts please on where to go next ???
Many, many thanks any help greatly appreciated! ;D
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Have you tried to find Thomas on the 1841 and 1851 census? He should be with his parents, at least in 1841. You could try the FreeCEN site first.
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Thanks GR2....yes have tried the Census records and I can't find him or his parents Alexander/Margaret. :(
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Hi emorrisn
There are certainly births in Paisley to Alexander Morrison and Margaret Peacock spanning from 1809 to 1823 for some of the children listed above including an Alexander born 1809- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTJX-X8Q
Other records are for John born 1819, Helen born 1821 and Patrick Hutchon born 1823 :-\
Looby :)
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Hi
I have found 8 children for Alexander and Margaret on Scotland's People - tho not a Thomas ???
Listed below - some variations in spelling which isn't unusual. Abbey parish includes Paisley
1 05/03/1815 MORISON HENRIETA Father ALEXANDER MORISON Mother MARGARET PEOCOCK. ABBEY Parish RENFREW (Ref No559/00 0030 0469)
2 13/12/1807 MORISON JANET Father ALEXANDER MORISON Mother MARGARET PECOAK. ABBEY Parish RENFREW (Ref No 559/00 0030 0377)
3 28/02/1813 MORISON MARGARET Father ALEXANDER MORISON Mother MARGARET PECOAK .ABBEY Parish RENFREW (Ref No 559/00 0030 0443)
4 24/09/1809 MORRISON ALEXANDER Father ALEXANDER MORRISON. Mother MARGARET PECOK. ABBEY Parish RENFREW (Ref No 559/00 0030 0401)
5 26/08/1821 MORRISON HELEN. Father ALEXANDER MORRISON. Mother MARGARET PEACOCK . ABBEY Parish RENFREW (Ref No 559/00 0060 0052)
6 08/12/1816 MORRISON JAMES.. Father ALEXANDER MORRISON. Mother MARGARET PEOCOCK. ABBEY Parish RENFREW (Ref No 559/00 0030 0515)
7 05/09/1819 MORRISON JOHN. Father ALEXANDER MORRISON Mother MARGARET PEACOCK. ABBEY Parish RENFREW (Ref No 559/00 0030 0584 )
8 06/10/1823 MORRISON PATRICK HUTCHON. Father ALEXANDER MORRISON. Mother MARGARET PEACOCK ABBEY Parish RENFREW (Ref No 559/00 0060 0111)
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Hi
One possible explanation for the parents possibly being incorrect on the marriage is that Thomas was a grandson and may not have known that hence named them as his parents e.g. was an illegitmate child of one of Alexander and Margaret's children and brought up as one of theirs so might be worth checking for any records for one of the daughters as a base born son would have mum's surname.
If no luck there, may be worth checking out the sons and their offspring.
Hope that makes sense
Ann :)
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Hi
Nothing like caffeine to get the grey cells moving.
The other thing to consider is the fact there were a lot of changes in the church in the 1820s/30s and it's possible as many in Paisley did they moved away from the Church of Scotland to a secessionist church. This would account for his baptism not being there as the SP records don't include those. You'd need the Kirk Session records and they're not online so may be worth posting asking is anyone is going to Edinburgh and can have a look for you.
My mum's side all Paisley (me too tho don't live there now) and they all jumped ship to other churches around that time and I've found them in the Kirk Sessions rather than on SP or LDS (The LDA records for Paisley including Abbey are not complete)
Hope that gives you a few pointers :)
Ann
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Hi again :D
I would agree with Ann Baker's posts.
Looking at the ages of Alexander and Margaret's children think it's feasible that Thomas was a grandchild they had reared perhaps after parent(s) death, or because he was illegitimate.
There may be no OPR (Old Parish Record) of his birth unfortunately. However he should be recorded on 1841 and 1851 Census, although naturally some folk slipped through the net. I , as of yet, have not located Thomas, Alexander or Margaret on the 2 Census :-\ .
Looby :)
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Hi
I found a Thomas Morrison aged 15 on an 1851 as a lodger on Ancestry. He's a weaver. At the time things were going into a bit of slump in the Paisley weaving trade so did he go south to get work? Might be him?
Details are
Name: Thomas Morrison
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1836
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland
Civil Parish: Scotch Street
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England
Registration district: Carlisle
Sub-registration district: St Mary
ED, institution, or vessel: 1b
Household schedule number: 61
Piece: 2430
Folio: 49
Page Number: 21
Household Members:
Name Age
Ellen Parker 63
Peter Parker 25
Eliza Parker 23
David Neeman 44
Eliza Neeman 30
Jane Neeman 14
Archibold McCormick 16
George Nelson 52
Neil Melton 90
Thomas Morrison 15
Might be a red herring but a possible sighting. Not found an 1841 yet :(
Ann
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Many many thanks for your replies everyone! Greatly appreciated.
Ann Baker - thank you for your suggestions, both of which I hadn't thought of. I didn't know about the change in churches. I will continue searching births etc to see if Thomas was indeed illegitimate.
Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to search for me :) I will keep the information on file in case I need it in future.
Thanks again!
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On the 1851 census living 15, Barr Street, Greenock is a Thomas Morrison lodging with the Wilkie's. Think this might be Thomas's sister/mother?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYQ3-BXT
Jen
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I have contacted a professional genealogist in Paisley who has very kindly looked up Thomas Morrison's information (including his parents).
The genealogist believes that the Margaret Peacock and Alexander Morrison are NOT the one on Ancestry. They couldn't find any marriage certificate for them or a birth for Thomas.
Basically, unfortunately, this is going to be a brick wall for me. Being weavers they didn't have alot of money so probably didn't keep records, wills, etc other ways of finding them. It's pre 1855 so they didn't have to either.
It's so frustrating and sad :( (as its our direct line and I wanted to get a bit further than this)
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Hi,
Does Broomlands Street, Paisley have any significance? In 1841 there's an Alexander Morrison age 78 at number 45 and also at number 45 (shows as two entries on FindMyPast) there's a Thomas age 4 with other 'Morrisons'...I think I'd want to have a look at the original census.
Jen
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I'm with Jennywren on this one. And I still think you are with the right family.
Mark you I'm no professional genealogist ;D ,just an enthusiastic nosey amateur but-
I'd have a look at the original Censuses.
Thomas provided the parental and maternal information himself at the time of this 1859 wedding- so he certainly thought of Alexander Morrison and Margaret Peacock as his parents. Maybe that was what he'd been told :) . But I still think that he was the illegitimate grandchild of the couple.
BTW- I've looked at his original marriage Jennywren and Thomas's address at marriage is 64 Broomlands Street.
I tried to look on SP at the Thomas Morrison living with the Wilkie family on the 1851 Census (found by Jennnywren) but unfortunately ::) the image cannot be viewed ! But I don't think they are in Greenock - I think they are still in Paisley - there was a Barr Street at that time in Paisley.
As Jen discovered the family the 15 year old Thomas Morrison is with are:
Neil Wilkie and Margaret Morrison - there are also 3 children (I narrowed this down on Familysearch) Daniel born circa 1840, Margaret (1844) and Alexr (1846) Note the names of the first daughter and second son - Margaret after grandmother Margaret Peacock and Alexander after grandfather Alexander Morrison perhaps :-\ . All conjecture at this stage but the pieces of the jigsaw are not all lost !
Looby :)
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Thanks loobylooayr and jennywren :)
Have already got those census's, the 1841 one that has a Thomas aged 4, the parents are George and Margaret with children William age 8, Margaret age 6 and Mary age 1.
Theres also another census with a Thomas Morrison aged 9 in 1841. He lives with an Elizabeth aged 16 Ann age 14 and Alexander aged 12. Elizabeth and Ann are flax spinners.
Broomlands is of some significance - Thomas was living at 64 Broomlands St at the time of his marriage.
I do find it strange that there is an Alexander Morrison and Margaret Peacock in Paisley just a few years before Thomas was born and he has listed them as his parents. There MUST be a connection somehow, because how many Alexander Morrison and Margaret Peacock's would there have been?! It's just frustrating I can't find proof.
Thanks everyone :)
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Good morning ;D,
I'm puzzled by your 1841 Census result for Thomas aged 4 :-\ This is the Freecen Transcription-
45 Broomland Street-
MORRISON James M 40 Brewer Renfrewshire
MORRISON Agness F 40 Renfrewshire
MORRISON James M 15 Joiner Apprentice Renfrewshire
MORRISON Janet F 12 Renfrewshire
MORRISON William M 10 Renfrewshire
MORRISON Mary Ann F 6 Renfrewshire
MORRISON Margaret F 6 Renfrewshire
MORRISON Thomas M 4 Renfrewshire
MORRISON Eliza F 1 Renfrewshire
There are no family relationships noted on the 1841 so although it is possible the youngsters could all be the children of James Morrison snr , there is always the chance that they are nephews/nieces or indeed grandchildren.
Alexander Morrison age 78 is also at 45 Broomland St but is not listed on same Freecen page.
I have tried to locate the above family on the 1851 Census without much luck. The elusive Morrisons strike again ;D Could be James snr and Agness had died.....or they all moved away .
Looby :)
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Maybe worth having a look at 9 Broomland St...Freecen 1841 census a six year old 'Thos McMorison' showing with someone listed as 'Henerica'.
Jen
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Maybe worth having a look at 9 Broomland St...Freecen 1841 census a six year old 'Thos McMorison' showing with someone listed as 'Henerica'.
Jen
Henrica is an alternative for Euphemia if it helps ???
Annie
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Thanks Annie,
I Thought it might have been a peculiar spelling of "Henrieta" :-\
Jen
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Jen,
It may be Henrietta too............
I have come across "Henrica" in my research for South Uist (Inverness-shire) which on baptisms the mother is recorded as Henrica then at a later date Euphemia/Effie.
The reason I added it was because of the surname Morrison, which is a Highland name too, so thought it might be useful just in case :-\
Annie
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Good morning ;D,
I'm puzzled by your 1841 Census result for Thomas aged 4 :-\ This is the Freecen Transcription-
45 Broomland Street-
MORRISON James M 40 Brewer Renfrewshire
MORRISON Agness F 40 Renfrewshire
MORRISON James M 15 Joiner Apprentice Renfrewshire
MORRISON Janet F 12 Renfrewshire
MORRISON William M 10 Renfrewshire
MORRISON Mary Ann F 6 Renfrewshire
MORRISON Margaret F 6 Renfrewshire
MORRISON Thomas M 4 Renfrewshire
MORRISON Eliza F 1 Renfrewshire
There are no family relationships noted on the 1841 so although it is possible the youngsters could all be the children of James Morrison snr , there is always the chance that they are nephews/nieces or indeed grandchildren.
Alexander Morrison age 78 is also at 45 Broomland St but is not listed on same Freecen page.
I have tried to locate the above family on the 1851 Census without much luck. The elusive Morrisons strike again ;D Could be James snr and Agness had died.....or they all moved away .
Looby :)
Hi Looby, the census I have is from the scotlandspeople site :) Thanks for this info!
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Maybe worth having a look at 9 Broomland St...Freecen 1841 census a six year old 'Thos McMorison' showing with someone listed as 'Henerica'.
Jen
thanks jenny!
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Thanks Annie,
I Thought it might have been a peculiar spelling of "Henrieta" :-\
Jen
That was my first thought. Maybe a mistranscription of Henrietta. And there was a Henrietta to Alexander Morrison and Margaret Peacock ....although she would have been older :-\
Emorrisn - no problem ;D - but I'd advise you to find it on Scotlands People and look at the original. Same with Jen's interesting find of Thomas McMorison.
Looby :)
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I would say the name is most/more likely to be Henrietta.
I was just adding a bit of useful info. ;D
Here is an example of what I mentioned regarding Henrica/Euphemia/Effie
http://www.genealogy.com/ftm/m/a/c/Glen-E-Macdonald/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0001.html
Annie
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One other possible line to check are the Poor Law books but unfortunately they aren't online but it is worth contacting the local history folks to see if they'll look. There is a charge for this. However if you can wait til next time I'm home I could have a look for you but won't be for a while yet. I need to go and look for some of my own as well
Ann
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I've had a look at a tree on Ancestry supposedly for this couple (I could only find one) - but that Alexander lived and died in Inverkeithny in
Aberdeenshire Banffshire. Unless of course he had a mid life crisis, jacked in farming his 100 plus acre farm and nipped over to Paisley to take up weaving.
Jen