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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: purplemorpheus on Thursday 20 August 15 00:25 BST (UK)

Title: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: purplemorpheus on Thursday 20 August 15 00:25 BST (UK)
Hi,
Can anyone help please.
 I am looking for any information on Ellen Rice born about 1837 Dublin, Ireland. She married Henry O'Neill about 1856 in Dublin Ireland. He was the Captain of the steamship 'Killarney'. I have a great deal of information on Henry O'Neill and their children who were all born in Sydney, Australia but not a great deal is known about Ellen.
 She died on the 19 June 1897 Sydney NSW, her daughter Jane Corbett was the informant on the death certificate and put her father's name down as Edward Rice but there is no name for her mother. Would like to find her parents and any brothers and sisters also the marriage date to Henry O'Neill.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks   :)
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: miriamkinga on Thursday 20 August 15 11:33 BST (UK)
The irishgenealogy site has a baptism for an Ellen Rice in Lucan, Dublin in 1835 but the parents are Dennis & Ellen. There is also a baptism for a sibling Edward: -

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/53b0a90015019
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: miriamkinga on Thursday 20 August 15 11:38 BST (UK)
Just for interest - not sure if these are the right family for you - but Dennis Rice is mentioned in a death entry on familysearch for a daughter Catherine Collinson and gives her mother as Ellen Oliver.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W9H-7SJ
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: purplemorpheus on Thursday 20 August 15 22:08 BST (UK)
Hi miriamkinga, 
I'm not sure if Edward Rice is my Ellen's father's name it was only what was on the death certificate so anything is possible.
None of Ellen and Henry's children are named Edward or Dennis
There is no  Catherine Collinson or Ellen Oliver in the family tree that I know of either.
Thank you for the information, much appreciated.
Cheers.............. :)
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 05 October 15 22:12 BST (UK)
Just a record that I saw.

Tara
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 05 October 15 22:13 BST (UK)
Was there ever any mention of an occupation for Edward ?

Tara
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 05 October 15 22:29 BST (UK)
A relation !

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=464006.0

Tara
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 05 October 15 22:41 BST (UK)
Commander Henry O'Neill

Tara
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 05 October 15 22:46 BST (UK)
A few links

http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/1877/07/044kil.htm

http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/1875/06/037kil.htm

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11567815

http://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gl=ROOT_CATEGORY&rank=1&new=1&so=3&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=seorecords&gsfn=Henry&gsln=ONeill&msbdy=1829&msbpn__ftp=England&msddy=&msdpn__ftp=&cpxt=0&catBucket=p&uidh=000&cp=0

Tara
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: purplemorpheus on Saturday 10 October 15 03:31 BST (UK)
Hi Tara,
So sorry that I haven't replied until now, just found your post for Ellen O'Neill. 
Thank you for the links and also the article about the birth notice, this is a very interesting bit of information. I found that Ellen Rice--O'Neill had travelled to England when Henry O'Neill died to take care of his probate (he was washed overboard from the ship 'Killarney) so  the birth could be one of their children as some of them are not registered in the New South Wales, Australia Births, Deaths and Marriages and have been hard to pin down.
Again many thanks............Cheers  :)
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: taramcdsmall on Saturday 10 October 15 09:41 BST (UK)
Hiya

There are a couple of Edward Rice possibilities but without a known occupation you could go on a wild goose chase.

Was there nothing re Edward on Ellen's death cert ?

Was there an obit for her or her husband where Edward might has been mentioned ?

Did she have siblings near her in Australia ?

Tara
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: purplemorpheus on Saturday 10 October 15 22:23 BST (UK)
Hi Tara, 
No occupation was mentioned on her death certificate for her father, just his name Edward and I pretty sure she had no other family here except for her husband Henry O'Neill and their children, one child Adelaide was supposed to have been born on their way to Australia ??.  This is such a hard family to trace as I am finding so much conflicting information on them and so little information as well.

Cheers   :)
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 09:22 BST (UK)
Hi There

What were the names of all of her children in chronological order ?

You can sometimes get great leads this way.

 Tara
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: purplemorpheus on Monday 12 October 15 14:36 BST (UK)
Hi again Tara,
                 The children are:
                                              1) Adelaide Helena bn: c1861? dd: 1943 New South Wales.
                                              2) Henry bn: 1863 dd:1863 New South Wales.
                                              3)Angela or Annie bn: 1865 and I know nothing about her at all.
                                              4)Jane Elizabeth bn: 1866 dd: 1934. New South Wales.
                                              5)Emily bn: 1870 dd; 1933. New South Wales.
                                              6)Margaret bn: 1873 dd:1875. New South Wales.
                                              7)Ellen bn: 1875 dd: 1876. New South Wales.
                                              8)Mary bn: 1877 dd:1877 New South Wales.
                                              9)John bn: 1877 dd:1877  (Twins) New South Wales

I can only find the births under Ellen's name on the NSW Births, Deaths and Marriages,  except for the birth of the twins John & Mary with both Henry and Ellen listed as the parents.
For some reason Henry O'Neill is not listed on the others. Another mystery.
Can not find Margaret's birth but have her death certificate with both parents names, and Emily's death certificate with her parents names on it .
(Emily is my grandfather's mother on my father's side of the family.)
Henry O'Neill's parent's name's are Martha Gamble and Matthew O'Neill.
So as you can see only one son and daughter have family names. Just more confusion.
And sorry again for the delay in replying but I am not on the computer everyday and I have come down with the flu.
Had the silly flu shot and still managed to get it. lol.
Cheers    :)
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 12 October 15 15:57 BST (UK)
I was interested in this chap.

There are bits and pieces on him in the newspapers.

His wife was called Anne.

Ellen's second daughter was called Anne ~ HA A stretch I know !

http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014888/005014888_00545.pdf

Tara
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 12 October 15 15:59 BST (UK)
Was there ever discussed the possibility that Ellen & Henry never married ?

I was expecting to see the marriage of a captain in the newspapers but no sign.

Then you said that Henry wasn't mentioned on a lot of the children's records.

HUM, I suppose, given that he was a Captain that he could have married himself, himself  ;D :o ;D

Tara
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 12 October 15 16:03 BST (UK)
I'll just post the few bits, just incase !

Tara
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 12 October 15 16:05 BST (UK)
1863

Tara
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 12 October 15 16:15 BST (UK)
1884

Tara
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 12 October 15 16:16 BST (UK)
INTERESTING

Anne's death was asked to be copied in AUSTRALIAN newspapers  :o

Tara
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 12 October 15 16:29 BST (UK)
A possible son to Edward !

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/c7876f0427625

Tara
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: myluck! on Monday 12 October 15 16:35 BST (UK)
Just a record that I saw.

Tara

This newspaper article - what year is it from? is it 1865 as noted?
If so, it refers to the birth of a son when the listing of family here refers to daughter Annie/Angela being born in 1865?
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 12 October 15 16:38 BST (UK)
I'm not even sure if that's the same Henry O'Neill.

It was just an article I saw and I posted it as a possibility !

Tara
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 12 October 15 16:39 BST (UK)
I'll just keep posting the Edward Rice / Anne Doran details, just in case there's a lead !

A son called Matthew getting married.

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/b8f5ac0057207

Tara
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 12 October 15 16:46 BST (UK)
Some Baptisms

Christopher 1844

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/c00aa30325606

Mary Monica 1838

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/a085610306481

Edward Patrick 1836

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/474c950125697

Francis George 1837

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/5e74210306071

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/eff5830022110

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/c7876f0427625

Matthew John 1849

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/c6627e0328228

Monica 1845

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/37bf820326291

Edward & Anne marriage

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/7e792d0035464

NOT saying that this is the correct Edward, just a possibility.

NO sign of an Ellen to this couple but there could be a reason for this.

Tara



Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: purplemorpheus on Tuesday 13 October 15 01:22 BST (UK)
Hi Tara,
Oh my, so much information.  Thank you so much, I'm trying to take it all in. 
Wouldn't it be wonderful if this turns out to be Ellen's family.
Unfortunately the Irish church records you posted won't let me in to read them for some reason.
One other mystery I found here too is that  in all the articles in the Trove newspapers  about  Henry O'Neill's death his family are not even mentioned..
In the pieces you posted family names are coming up eg: Mary, Anne ect.
My next stop is to look up and see I can find Anne Rice's death notice in the papers here.

Many, many thanks    :D
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 13 October 15 07:25 BST (UK)
Hi There

Just enter the 'captcha' and you will get into them.

Looks it's AN Edward Rice having children in Dublin at the same time that Ellen was born.

Ellen could have been from Dublin County as opposed to the City and that's a totally different kettle of fish.

There are a few oddities in Ellen & Henry that have me cautious ~ how SURE are you that she was even a Dublin native ?

Tara
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: purplemorpheus on Tuesday 13 October 15 08:33 BST (UK)
Hi Tara, 
On Ellen O'Neill's death certificate where it asks where born it says Dublin Ireland also on the death certificate it says that she was married in Dublin, age 19 years.
And on the twin John O'Neill's death certificate in 1877 it states that they were married in Dublin and Ellen's birth place is down as Dublin on the certificate,  informant was Ellen O'Neill.

Don't know if this is relevant but I found an entry on the FamilySearch website today:

Edward Rice, prisoner, born 1796.
Event Place Kilmainham.
Event date 1821.
Then it states, A Convict from County Down.
(County Down being where Henry O'Neill was born.) 

I haven't found an entry in the Australian newspaper archive on Anne Rice's death as yet but I will get looking when I get some more time tomorrow.

Much appreciate the work you are putting into my posting about Ellen O'Neill.

Cheers...................... :D
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 13 October 15 12:36 BST (UK)
While the 'possible' Edward that I have put forward lived in the Kilmainham area that was also the name for one of our major prisons ~ so there is a possibility of just a coincidence.

Great that there is so much info saying that Ellen was a Dublin lass.

I shall keep poking about and see if I get a lead !

Tara
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 13 October 15 12:51 BST (UK)
DUH

I never checked Ellen & Henry's religion !

Do you know what it was ?

Tara
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 13 October 15 13:37 BST (UK)
I note that you say that Henry was from County Down yet the other thread that I posted for you say that he was from Cork  ???

Tara
Title: Re: Ellen Rice Born c. 1837 Dublin Ireland.
Post by: purplemorpheus on Thursday 15 October 15 02:14 BST (UK)
Hi Tara, 
Ellen and Henry's religion is Catholic and the reference to County Cork comes from the death certificate of the twin child John which just adds another mystery to this family as I have found a lot of information on Henry and where he was born maybe the family  moved to Cork when he was young child.
 
Cheers............... ???