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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Alders on Tuesday 18 August 15 18:43 BST (UK)

Title: untangling the relationship!
Post by: Alders on Tuesday 18 August 15 18:43 BST (UK)
Help,
Is there an easier way to unravel a family relationship?
i'm tracking down different arms of a family in the hope that someone around may know something! Always a long shot, but who knows... people win the lottery!!
On The London electoral registers members of the family i'm searching for i've found
Ethel Mary J Brown 1872
Francis Strickland Brown 1880
Corrine M Brown ??
Mary Emily Ann Pearse ??
Ethel & Francis are siblings, not sure on Corrine no clue on Mary,
They lived at 154 Gunnersbury Ave 1934-1965 (some died in between)
Not knowing who Pearse or Corrine is i've tried to suss it out...
I'm stumped i've come across Vanhouse's, Burd's & more Pearse's but can't find the connection to the Brown's even though on census records they list themselves as cousins or nieces.

If i explain Frederick Brown b1840 Nottingham & Mary Agnes Tatham b1846 Huddersfield. are the parents of
Ethel Mary, Francis Strickland, Alfred Vanhouse, & Margaret A Brown.
My search of Mary Emily Ann Pearse leads me to the 1911 census shes living with Louisa Ann, Ann Maria & Harriet Marsh Brown & is their niece. 1901 census Harriet Marsh Brown is living with Emily Heysett Vanhouse (cousin) & Winifred Pearse (niece)
When Emily Heysett Vanhouse died she left her effects to Frederick Brown
when Harriet Marsh Brown died her effects went to Francis Strickland Brown. So i know i have the right family just can't see the connection!  :'(

I'm sure i have confused myself unnecessarily & the answer is right in front of me!

J



Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: LizzieL on Tuesday 18 August 15 18:55 BST (UK)
FindMyPast has a baptism for a Mary Emily Ann Pearse on 18 Oct 1867 in Hatherleigh Devon. Parents John and Emily, does that fit with any census information you have?
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 18 August 15 20:21 BST (UK)

When Emily Heysett Vanhouse died she left her effects to Frederick Brown
when Harriet Marsh Brown died her effects went to Francis Strickland Brown. So i know i have the right family just can't see the connection!  :'(

I'm sure i have confused myself unnecessarily & the answer is right in front of me!

J

Do you have the wills to confirm these statements?
Or are you relying on the National Probate Calendar - in which case they will be the executors! ;)
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: willsy on Tuesday 18 August 15 20:29 BST (UK)
Found a Surrey baptism

Harriet Marsh Brown b 1831 Walworth, Surrey, daughter of John & Eliza Brown
Her maternal grandfather was James Vanhouse
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: willsy on Tuesday 18 August 15 20:32 BST (UK)
Record here too

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NPCW-VLB
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: willsy on Tuesday 18 August 15 20:37 BST (UK)
And a marriage you might have

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NK6K-X3X

James Vanhouse
Elizabeth Marsh
Event Date    24 Nov 1789
Event Place    Saint Luke Old Street, Finsbury, London
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Tuesday 18 August 15 20:44 BST (UK)
John Brown & Eliza Vanhouse
Marriage 28 Oct 1819, St Giles, Camberwell

Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: willsy on Tuesday 18 August 15 20:48 BST (UK)
Just behind you Mabel Bagshawe :)

James and James jnr, Hannah Vanhouse witnesses
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Tuesday 18 August 15 20:49 BST (UK)
1881 - Oakhampton, devon

William Burd Pearse    32 - head, b Hatherleigh, Devon
Emily Pearse    51 - stepmother, widow, b Kennington
Sally Burd Pearse    27 - sister
Mary Emily Anne Pearse    13 - half-sister b Hatherleigh, Devon
Emily Grace Pearse    11 - half-sister b Hatherleigh, Devon
Winifred Pearse    7 - half-sister b Hatherleigh, Devon
Anne Pearse    70 - b Hatherleigh, Devon [image shows as half sister to William, but given age and occupation annuitant, I suspect some other relationship!]
Mary Ann Ellis    51 - servant
Elizabeth Jane Lovell    18 - servant

so need to connect Emily Pearse to the Browns
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Tuesday 18 August 15 20:55 BST (UK)
1871 shows Emily b kensington and married to a John Pearse b Hatherleigh aged 52, solicitor, land owner and farmer. Ann Pearse is his older sister. There are more children of the first marriage, youngest aged 18, then Mary E A aged 3.

there is this possible marriage Q1 1866

Nottingham, VOl 7b, p215   
BROWN    Emily   <<<
Campion    Ann        
Pearse    John        <<<
Wood    William   
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: willsy on Tuesday 18 August 15 21:00 BST (UK)
Marriage was Nottingham St Mary, 24 Jan 1866 to Emily Brown
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Tuesday 18 August 15 21:02 BST (UK)
1841 - Cumberland Place, Nottingham. Only Francis and Frederick born in county

John Brown    46
Eliza Brown    40
Louisa Brown    15
Emily Brown    11
Harriet Brown    9
Anna Brown    7
Francis Brown    5
Frederick Brown    1
Martha Kent    25

HO107, 871, 33, 8

this looks like your Frederick, the three sisters Harriet Marsh, Ann Maria and Louisa and Emily, mother of Mary Ann Emily and Winifred Pearse, later found with their three maiden aunts

Later again Mary Ann Emily lives with her cousins Francis and Ethel
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Tuesday 18 August 15 21:09 BST (UK)
1881 find other Brown with Vanhouse relatives together at 116 Albion Road, Stoke Newington parish

Edward Vanhouse    80 - head, retired farmer b London
Louisa Brown    56 - niece b London (dividends and annuity)
Emily Vanhouse    55 - niece b London (dividends and annuity)
Frances Brown    45 - nephew b Nottingham (dividends and annuity)
Louisa Potter    31  - servant

RG11, 283, 82, 31

Emily Vanhouse appears to be the daughter of James and Margaret Vanhouse
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: willsy on Tuesday 18 August 15 21:12 BST (UK)
Got the newspaper report for the marriage

Exeter and Plymouth Gazette 02 February 1866

in the Devon paper too

PEARSE-BROWN.-Jan 24 at St. Mary's Church, Nottingham, by the Rev. Henry Bell, John Pearse, of Hatherleigh, Devon, Solicitor and banker, to Emily, third daughter of the late John Brown, of Wellington-circus, Nottingham
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Tuesday 18 August 15 21:17 BST (UK)
James' probate register entry confirms executrix is his daughter  Emily Heysett Vanhouse, spinster

James Vanhouse and Margaret Heysett
Marriage    5 Jan 1825, Bradford, Devon

Children of james Vanhouse and Elizabeth MArsh

Elizabeth Vanhouse    b 13 Aug 1791    bapt 11 Sep 1791    Saint Dunstan IN The East
Edward Vanhouse b 17 Jun 1800, bapt    11 Jul 1800    Saint Mary At Hill,
John Marsh Vanhouse    b 21 Oct 1803 bapt 23 Nov 1803    Saint Mary At Hill,
Louisa Vanhouse, b 8 Jan 1806, baptised 12 Feb 1806    Saint Mary At Hill
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: Alders on Tuesday 18 August 15 21:57 BST (UK)

When Emily Heysett Vanhouse died she left her effects to Frederick Brown
when Harriet Marsh Brown died her effects went to Francis Strickland Brown. So i know i have the right family just can't see the connection!  :'(

I'm sure i have confused myself unnecessarily & the answer is right in front of me!

J

Do you have the wills to confirm these statements?
Or are you relying on the National Probate Calendar - in which case they will be the executors! ;)
i'm relying on probate.
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: willsy on Tuesday 18 August 15 22:48 BST (UK)
Wondered if this is Corinne ???

Freebmd
Deaths Jun 1970   
BROWN    Corinne Minna    30 June 1881    Ealing    5b/147
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Tuesday 18 August 15 22:57 BST (UK)
Marriages
Q2 1923   Fulham Vol 1a, p689   
Brown    Francis S         Knaggs   
Knaggs    Corinne M         Brown   

Presumably Mrs Francis Strickland
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: willsy on Tuesday 18 August 15 22:58 BST (UK)
Just beat me to it ;D
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Tuesday 18 August 15 23:16 BST (UK)
Corinne was difficult until I spotted a couple of Knaggses living three doors down from the Browns (Marjorie Violet and Pauline May)in 1939 electoral register. had a look on the offchance - and found this on 1891. Bath Road, Chiswick

John W Knaggs    47 - club secretary b Kingston Jamaica
Amelia A Knaggs    38 - b Kensington
Crinne M Knaggs    9 - b Brixton
Marguerite A Knaggs    7 - b Bloombury
Pauline M Knaggs    5 - b Chiswick
Dorothy P Knaggs    3  - b Chiswick
Margery V Knaggs    1  - b Chiswick

RG12, 1034, 80, 26
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: Alders on Wednesday 19 August 15 16:31 BST (UK)
1881 - Oakhampton, devon

William Burd Pearse    32 - head, b Hatherleigh, Devon
Emily Pearse    51 - stepmother, widow, b Kennington
Sally Burd Pearse    27 - sister
Mary Emily Anne Pearse    13 - half-sister b Hatherleigh, Devon
Emily Grace Pearse    11 - half-sister b Hatherleigh, Devon
Winifred Pearse    7 - half-sister b Hatherleigh, Devon
Anne Pearse    70 - b Hatherleigh, Devon [image shows as half sister to William, but given age and occupation annuitant, I suspect some other relationship!]
Mary Ann Ellis    51 - servant
Elizabeth Jane Lovell    18 - servant

so need to connect Emily Pearse to the Browns
[/quote
Yes, it looks like Ann Pearse age 70 is the sister of John Pearse (William Burds father)
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: Alders on Wednesday 19 August 15 16:44 BST (UK)
Wow thank you so much Willsy & Mabel
 to clear my muddle  :P  James Vanhouse married Harriet Marsh 1789 they had a daughter Eliza Vanhouse whom married John Brown in 1819, 1 of their daughters was Harriet Marsh Brown. John & Eliza's other daughter Emily Brown married John Pearse 1886 & they had a daughter Mary Emily Ann Pearse.
John Brown was the father of my Frederick Brown? whom married Mary Agnes Tatham
Corrine Knaggs married Francis Strickland Brown.
I think thats it! Phew
Thank you so much for all of you help, i note that a lot of the ladies in this family lived of independent means!


Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Wednesday 19 August 15 20:00 BST (UK)
Yes - four generations of Browns

Then on the other side Eliza Vanhouse Brown's brother James Vanhouse married Margaret Heysett and had a daughter Emily Heysett Vanhouse.

There are a number of permutations of cousins  and aunts/uncles/nieces living together in censuses across the years.


The families appear to be fairly comfortable- e.g. James Vanhouse snr a grocer, James jnr a colonial broker (both freemen of London)
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: willsy on Wednesday 19 August 15 21:11 BST (UK)
Great when it unravels, probably a lot more in the papers for them :)
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: Alders on Thursday 20 August 15 08:41 BST (UK)
Thank you again,
I noted that Edward Vanhouse (retired farmer) whom they resided with at 1 point, named William Burd Pearse as his executor in his will when he passed in 1883. Think Edward & James were brothers.
This family really were very interconnected. Strange that Mary Agnes Brown nee Tatham seemed to have nothing to do with her side of the family! Well at least not after the death of her sister.
If your interested Mary Agnes & her sister wrote a book!
http://www.stellabooks.com/books/mrs-frederick-brown/little-margarets-ride-or-the-wonderful-rocking-horse/1304618
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Thursday 20 August 15 11:30 BST (UK)
I have a feeling Edward had no children - so he's asked his niece’s step son to act as executor.  WBP was a banker, so eminently suitable. Edward may well have left money to his nieces and great nieces, so (in line with the attitude of the times) a suitably close male relative might have been useful.


there may be other inter-relationships, as I've come across a George Vanhouse Burd b 1858 whose parents are John Marsh Burd and Esther Jones Pearse. they are also based in Devon.

I haven't tracked either back, but the appearance of Marsh and Vanhouse is quite interesting
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: LizzieL on Thursday 20 August 15 14:48 BST (UK)
Esther Jones Pearse married William Marsh Burd on June 24 1846. he was a solicitor. His abode Inwardleigh, hers was Tavistock. His father was William Burd - solicitor and hers was Edmund Pearse (cant read his occupation, starts with S)
Looks like the two fathers were witnesses.

The John Pearse who married Eliza Brown was previously married to Sarah Burd, who I think was the daughter of William Burd solicitor. In 1841 John Pearse was in the household of William Burd and there was Sally of the right age to become John's wife. Sarah Burd had a brother with initials J N. She died at his house at Goldburn near Okehampton according to newspaper report in 1859   
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: LizzieL on Thursday 20 August 15 16:00 BST (UK)
I can't find baptism of Esther Jones Pearse in Tavistock, but there is a baptism for John son of Edmund and Grace Pearse on 26 Feb 1815 (born 30 Jan 1815) at Tavistock Wesleyan. In 1851 there is Edmund Pearse born Launceston Cornwall abt 1788 occupation surgeon, wife Grace b Tavistock abt 1793, and daughter Maria W b abt 1830 Tavistock. In 1841, Edmund and Grace have John (1815) also surgeon, Mary Crabb? Pearse  1816 (spinster written but crossed out), Sarah Kerswill 1837, Grace Edmunda Pearse 1822, Mary Ann Hall Pearse 1830, Thomas Franklin Pearse 1832. All except Edmund born in county. The position of 4 year old Sarah Kerswill in the list is odd.
I think Esther is a governess in 1841.

I think the John Pearse who married Eliza Brown was the son of George Pearse and Grace Couch. George was born in Cornwall and would be contemporary of Edmund. Could they be brothers?

Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: LizzieL on Thursday 20 August 15 16:09 BST (UK)
By 1861, Edmund has died, Grace has two unmarried daughters Ann J (1820 and Maria W (1830) living with her and two grandsons John M Burd and Edmund P Burd.
added
In 1871 Maria(n) W is still with her and two different grandsons George V Burd and Thomas Burd.

Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: LizzieL on Thursday 20 August 15 16:38 BST (UK)
And some more
Edmund Pearse bachelor - surgeon and apothecary) married Grace Crabb (spinster) on 26 Apr 1814 at Tavistock. witnesses Henry Cornish and William Gill(?).
I think he was the Edmund Pearse baptised at St Stephen by Launceston on 25 feb 1788, parents John and Ann.


George Pearse was born at St Stephens Cornwall abt 1787 according to 1851 census. And there is a baptism of a George Pearse in St Stephens Launceston on 7 Jun 1786, parents also John and Ann.

Title: Family Of Alfred Vanhouse Brown (1873-1951)
Post by: winsonsaw2003 on Monday 19 October 20 11:23 BST (UK)
Looking for family of Alfred Vanhouse Brown.Born in 1873.Son Of Frederick Bown & Mary Agnes Tatham.Educated at Merchant Taylor's School,Northwood and Queen's College,Oxford.He married Margaret Helen Maclean.

His issue:-


i) Isobel Evelyn Brown(1912-1999).

ii) Bernard Alfred Maclean Brown(?-1945).

Title: Re: Family Of Alfred Vanhouse Brown (1873-1951)
Post by: Alders on Monday 02 November 20 16:30 GMT (UK)
Looking for family of Alfred Vanhouse Brown.Born in 1873.Son Of Frederick Bown & Mary Agnes Tatham.Educated at Merchant Taylor's School,Northwood and Queen's College,Oxford.He married Margaret Helen Maclean.

His issue:-


i) Isobel Evelyn Brown(1912-1999).

ii) Bernard Alfred Maclean Brown(?-1945).
Not looked into the Brown side but the Tatham side pretty much ended of Marys 3 siblings, 1 never married & had no children, 1 had 1 child who had one child who did not have any children, & the last sibling the only male was last heard of in Cape Town in 1888.  Have you read the book from Mary?  Its a very endearing book illustrated by her sister. 
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: winsonsaw2003 on Tuesday 03 November 20 04:15 GMT (UK)
Hello Alders,

 Thanks for your reply.No,I didn't have a book of which written by Mary.

Do you know where can I find a picture of Alfred Vanhouse Brown?.

Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: Girl Guide on Tuesday 03 November 20 17:25 GMT (UK)
Was Bernard Isobel's twin?

Births Dec 1912   
Brown    Bernard A M    Maclean    Weymouth    5a   502

Births Dec 1912   
Brown    Isobel E    Maclean    Weymouth    5a   502
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: winsonsaw2003 on Wednesday 04 November 20 08:38 GMT (UK)

Hello Girl Guide,

 Yes,they were twins.


Was Bernard Isobel's twin?

Births Dec 1912   
Brown    Bernard A M    Maclean    Weymouth    5a   502

Births Dec 1912   
Brown    Isobel E    Maclean    Weymouth    5a   502
Title: Re: untangling the relationship!
Post by: winsonsaw2003 on Tuesday 23 May 23 08:05 BST (UK)
Hello Alders,

 I've just seen the book which written by Alfred's mother,Mary - https://digitalarchive.tpl.ca/objects/294301/little-margarets-ride-or-the-wonderful-rockinghorse#

Any idea where can I find the picture of Alfred?.I did find one a group one.But I don't know which one is him which taken in Johore,Malaysia 1924?.

I do have a list of his appointments in Malaya.Are you interested?.

Best regards,
Winson Saw