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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: DJFRENCH on Monday 17 August 15 14:22 BST (UK)
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I will try to give all information clearly .
Emma Sheen born 1910 Birmingham died 1939.Married to Albert Lawton 1929 Birmingham.
I believe her parents are William Sheen born about 1876 as he is aged 22 on marriage cert 1898. He states father named WILLIAM SHEEN LABOURER on marriage cert. Moland Street.
Elizabeth SAUNDERS in named as spouse on marriage cert. Some recs says GANDERS..
I cannot find any William Sheens with father William in any census except in BethnalGreen but Willian b 1876 states born Birmingham.
1911 - William and Lizzibeth at 65 Lower Tower Street.
I have looked for all possiblities regarding father born William Thomas or Thomas William (1881 census in Birmingham shows a William with father Thomas.
Why would marriage cert say William for father?
In 1911 I believe I have found William with family and his brother Charley born 1893 but I cannot a irth for brother either which fits !
Any ideas would make me happy .
I haven't been on here for ages but would value all help from you experts - its driving me nuts !!!
Thank you
Deb
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Might William the father already be deceased, have you got the birth for Emma to confirm those were her parents?
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Hi so that we have some idea of William in 1901 is this him:-
William Sheen 24 occ Hot Work Striker
Lizzie 23
William E 1
All born Birmingham
Residing at House Court, Summer Lane, Birmingham
Census ref RG13/2843/71/2
Keyboard86
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Hi I again can see the birth registration for Emma as Sheen, but William E b c 1900 Aston on 1901, odd that in occupation column it has something I cannot work out for him?
Keyboard86
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Hi , thanks for your interest Keyboard 86
1901 - I believe that is the correct census for William and Elizabeth (Lizzibeth) I will look at the census again to occ.
Milipede
I think it would say deceased if father was deceased.
Deb
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1901 - Hot work striker
On marriage cert it says Stamper
And no I have not ordered birt cert but will if there is not complete certainty.
Deb
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:) Not the William snr it is the younger that I mean, maybe a red herring!
It is his birth that I cannot locate?
Keyboard86
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1901 - I see what you mean - occ column has something written and also says worker but William E was only 1 year old ?!
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I have not found birth cert for William E (Edward I think)
Found marriage cert.1922 aged 23 for William E - father named as william Marine Store dealer .
A William Sheen owning this business and Newspaper Waste Dealers dissolved the business in 1913 it was in Lower Tower Street no 32 .They lived at 65 Lower Tower Street in 1911.
A Frederick Sheen was born in 1914 with mothers maiden name Saunders but I cannot find digitised cert.
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William E Sheen born 1st Q 1899 6d 496 Aston
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Milipede
I think it would say deceased if father was deceased.
It doesn't always - even if they were - just to make it more difficult for us!
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No William Sheen deaths between 1874- 1899 apart from 2 babies.
I have not been able to pin point William Sheen birth about 1876 either there are only 3 possibly ones and I have ruled those out !!
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This may be the brothers birth ( ie Charley ) Walsall being a suburb of Birmingham
Births Dec 1893
Sheen Samuel Charles Walsall 6b 704
nope not him as he dies as a baby in dec Qtr 1893
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Is this one of the ones you've ruled out ??
Births Mar 1877
SHEEN William Birmingham 6d 154
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Yes Jan ,
I ordered the cert
Father John Sheen and Mother Jane Rawlings
I have reserached all this for weeks but now I have no other ideas
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There are a few trees on Ancestry with William on , born 1878 , saying father is Thomas and mother Mary Need, whose father is given as William Need ) and pictures of Lower Tower St, and Fillongley Industrial School, where a note has been put saying William went there when he was 13 . Thomas Sheen dies in 1887( Free BMD given as source ) and Mary remarries in 1888 to a Joseph Daniels .
Maybe William born c1878 didn't get on with stepdad, and so put Grandfathers name on marriage cert ? The trees also state William marrying Elizabeth Saunders, and have William E Sheen as their son
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Births Dec 1878
SHEEN William Thomas J Aston 6d 354
Oh Forgot to mention in my previous post Thomas Sheen who died in1887 was born in Worcestershire as was Mary Need
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It's that old problem again later census returns and at marriage c 1876 for William prior c 1878, in 1891 aged 13 b Birmingham he is an inmate at Follingley, Meriden, Warwickshire
Census ref RG12/2441/176/4
Keyboard86
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Jan
Thank you for all this.
I have conrtacted one of the ancestry tree owners by sending copy of marriage cert Sheen/Saunders (which they do not have ) to enquire about their theory of Thomas and Mary Sheen
but they just said look at 1881 census but I think they may possibly copied one another.
There are just too many little details which do not add up.
I live in West Midlands so I know all these areas well.
I have looked for all types of cross references.
If only I could find a Charley Sheen linked to Thomas and Mary Need I would be happier
Thank you for all your help and ideas - open to all inspiring thoughts
Deb
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Hi Jan
William Thomas J Sheen( born in Aston 1879) married in Handsworth 1901 to a Ellen May Sheppard
William names his father as Thomas.
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This is a death for a Charles Sheen, but would only show as 17 in 1911?
Charles Sheen
Born 9th October 1893
Death registered March quarter 1979 age 85 at Birmingham
Volume 32 Page 0045
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There is a Charles Sheen on the ER's for Birmingham throughout the years.
In 1920 he is possibly living at 4 Court 24 (this address re-occurs) with a William and Jane.
He also has some army records.
There is a very remote possible that this is Emma's uncle and grandparents (or Jane could be a second wife.)
I still wonder if the family started in Ireland, and name as Sheehan, or similar, and 'adopting' Birmingham as their birth place.
There is this death for Jane Sheen in Birmingham:
Deaths December quarter 1944 Jane Sheen age 86 Birmingham 6d 155 (so birth year about 1858)
William is not with Jane by 1922 ER
(cannot see death for William in Birmingham.)
By 1927 Charles Sheen is with a Mary Ann at 24, 1 Court 2.
By 1955 they have appeared with a variety of children, but I cannot cross-reference the children's mother's maiden name with a marriage of the parents.
(There is a marriage of Charles Sheen to Mary Ann Taylor in 1922, and they have neighbours of Taylors in ER) but the children seem to be Sheen/Gormley)