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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: kazza2013 on Sunday 26 July 15 09:58 BST (UK)
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Hello
The problem with Alexander according to his marriage & birth of his children the surname might be under WOOD / WOODS / NASH / NASHWOOD
children's births
925/1870 NASH FREDERICK ALEXANDER / ALEXANDER JOHN / ELLEN - SYDNEY
2564/1871 WOOD HENRY J / ALEXANDER J N / ELLEN - SYDNEY
553/1874 NASH ALFRED CHARLES / ALEXANDER JOHN / ELLEN - SYDNEY
1923/1876 NASHWOOD WILLIAM GEORGE / ALEXANDER JOHN / ELLEN - SYDNEY
6437/1878 NASHWOOD ELIZABETH E A / ALEXANDER J / ELLEN - WATERLOO
8168/1881 WOOD ALBERT ERNEST N / ALEXANDER J N / ELLEN - WATERLOO
7274/1883 WOOD HENRY NASH / ALEXANDER JOHN N / ELLEN - NEWTOWN
1869 Marriage certificate Alexander John NASH to Ellen STONE
Alexander's occupation is French Polisher [parents not stated] which makes it harder to find him
1884 death certificate Ellen WOOD nee STONE she leaves children 5 males, 1 female living & 1 male dead
Informant husband Alexander WOOD Eliza street Newtown
Just guessing here some of the children may of been sent to various homes, youngest being only about one.
This may be his only daughters marriage certificate it states -
Elizabeth Annie Ellen WOODS married in 1897 age 19 to William Peel JENNINGS
*NOTE - The consent of Neil Stewart, being a guardian of minors, was given in writing to the marriage of Elizabeth Annie Ellen Woods with William Peel Jennings, the said Elizabeth being under the age of 21.
Her parents [though different] Frederick Alexander WOODS & Ellen STONE (Deceased)
His occupation is Upholsterer
Informants of the marriage - Peter Morgan [who adopted her - legally not sure] Alfred Charles WOODS [ probably her brother]
some possible deaths
25672/1945 WOODS ALFRED CHARLES / ALEXANDER GEORGE / ELLEN - LIVERPOOL
1016/1942 WOOD WILLIAM GEORGE / ALEXANDER FREDERICK / ELLEN - CANTERBURY
1370/1874 WOOD HENRY J N ALEXANDER J / ELLEN - SYDNEY
18585/1948 WOOD FREDERICK ALEXANDER / ALEXANDER JOHN / ELLEN - REDFERN
12273/1941 JENNINGS ELIZABETH ELLEN ANNIE FREDERICK ALEXANDER ELLEN - PARRAMATTA
I also have Frederick Alexander WOOD 1948 death certificate, father Alexander John Wood [French Polisher] & Ellen Stone
Sorry if it's long winded!!
cheers
Kaz
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Is the place of burial for Ellen WOOD on her death certificate?
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Do you have an age and birthplace for Alexander John NASH from marriage certificate 1869 or from birth certificate of a child?
The Biz 27 Nov 1952
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?
.....in mem...... Alfred Charles (Nash) WOOD......d. 24 Nov 1925 husband of Jessie father of Valerie
NSW BDM marriage
6342/1898 WOODS Alfred C m. JOHNSTONE Jessie D Rockdale
13292/1900 WOODS Valerie E J Hurstville
parents Alfred C / Jessie D
34297/1905 WOODS Gladys W Kogarah
parents Alfred C / Jessie D
28539/1911 WOODS Marjory M Gunnedah
parents Alfred C / Jessie
NSW BDM death
502/1924 AINLEY Hannah M Redfern
parents Joseph J / Lucy
4392/1884 WOOD Ellen Newtown
parents Joseph J / Lucy
SMH 22 Feb 1924
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16123934?
funeral notice for Hannah AINLEY........Mr F WOOD.......
Hannah AINLEY nee STONE is sister of Ellen STONE.......aunt of F(rederick) WOOD?....the WOOD children have continuing contact with mother's family?
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Is the place of burial for Ellen WOOD on her death certificate?
Merlin the Burial Rookwood Cemetery 13 Oct 1884
I know it's not this one as I have death certificate of Alexander J N WOODS in 1896
cheers
Kaz
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Do you have an age and birthplace for Alexander John NASH from marriage certificate 1869 or from birth certificate of a child?
The Biz 27 Nov 1952
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?
.....in mem...... Alfred Charles (Nash) WOOD......d. 24 Nov 1925 husband of Jessie father of Valerie
NSW BDM marriage
6342/1898 WOODS Alfred C m. JOHNSTONE Jessie D Rockdale
13292/1900 WOODS Valerie E J Hurstville
parents Alfred C / Jessie D
34297/1905 WOODS Gladys W Kogarah
parents Alfred C / Jessie D
28539/1911 WOODS Marjory M Gunnedah
parents Alfred C / Jessie
NSW BDM death
502/1924 AINLEY Hannah M Redfern
parents Joseph J / Lucy
4392/1884 WOOD Ellen Newtown
parents Joseph J / Lucy
SMH 22 Feb 1924
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16123934?
funeral notice for Hannah AINLEY........Mr F WOOD.......
Hannah AINLEY nee STONE is sister of Ellen STONE.......aunt of F(rederick) WOOD?....the WOOD children have continuing contact with mother's family?
Thankyou Wivenhoe unfortunately it's the worst marriage certificate you could receive [unknown to everything] Occ French Polisher.
Ellen the same though her father Joseph James Stone is a witness also a French Polisher
I do have all the other information you listed thankyou
cheers
Kaz
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Is the place of burial for Ellen WOOD on her death certificate?
Merlin the Burial Rookwood Cemetery 13 Oct 1884
I know it's not this one as I have death certificate of Alexander J N WOODS in 1896
Do you have her burial location & checked with Rookwood Cemetery to see if anyone else is buried with her?
Yes, the 1896 death is an infant.
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Is the place of burial for Ellen WOOD on her death certificate?
Merlin the Burial Rookwood Cemetery 13 Oct 1884
I know it's not this one as I have death certificate of Alexander J N WOODS in 1896
Do you have her burial location & checked with Rookwood Cemetery to see if anyone else is buried with her?
Yes, the 1896 death is an infant.
No I don't have burial location, would be interesting to see who is with her. Unfortunately the Rookwood site has been down it seems forever ???
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I am assuming that you do not have an age or birthplace (which might help to identify parents) for Alexander, the better to find his death?
Do you have an age and birthplace for Alexander John NASH from birth certificate of a child?
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No I don't have burial location, would be interesting to see who is with her. Unfortunately the Rookwood site has been down it seems forever ???
Well, you can Phone, Fax or Email them with your request.. as that's what most researchers have been doing since the site has gone offline ;)
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No I don't have burial location, would be interesting to see who is with her. Unfortunately the Rookwood site has been down it seems forever ???
Well, you can Phone, Fax or Email them with your request.. as that's what most researchers have been doing since the site has gone offline ;)
Thanks Merlin, I will email a request to see who is with Ellen. I do have the Rookwood cemetery cd but she is not there.
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I am assuming that you do not have an age or birthplace (which might help to identify parents) for Alexander, the better to find his death?
Do you have an age and birthplace for Alexander John NASH from birth certificate of a child?
No I don't, all my research is through Ellen so the marriage certificate has no age no parents apart from occupation. Frustrating as name changes doesn't help.
cheers
Kaz
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When Alfred Charles WOODS married Jessie Downs JOHNSTONE in 1898 Alexander is not referred to as being deceased in their marriage announcement whereas Jessie's father is:
WOODS-JOHNSTONE - August 21, 1898, at Presbyterian Church, Bexley, by the Rev. T. Hill, Alfred Charles, third son of Alexander Woods, of Sydney, to Jessie Downs, third daughter of the late John Johnstone, of Rockdale.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14129313
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It appears that Alexander was deceased by 1905 according the details on the attached MC of his son William George WOOD to Annie Beatrice WILSON. I also noticed that Alexander's occupation is now noted as a journalist:
http://postimg.org/image/7idkh1uz5/
Their wedding announcement is quite detailed giving many related family names:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/86177853
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The only death for an Alex* WOOD* 1898-1905 IF the information on the above two marriages is correct appears to be this one :-\
Alexander WOOD d. 31 Mar, 1902 PARRAMATTA #6464
Parents: George H & Caroline
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Thankyou Wivenhoe unfortunately it's the worst marriage certificate you could receive [unknown to everything] Occ French Polisher.
Ellen the same though her father Joseph James Stone is a witness also a French Polisher
I do have all the other information you listed thankyou
cheers
Kaz
and
I am assuming that you do not have an age or birthplace (which might help to identify parents) for Alexander, the better to find his death?
Do you have an age and birthplace for Alexander John NASH from birth certificate of a child?
No I don't, all my research is through Ellen so the marriage certificate has no age no parents apart from occupation. Frustrating as name changes doesn't help.
cheers
Kaz
1869 Marriage certificate Alexander John NASH to Ellen STONE
Alexander's occupation is French Polisher [parents not stated] which makes it harder to find him
1884 death certificate Ellen WOOD nee STONE she leaves children 5 males, 1 female living & 1 male dead
Informant husband Alexander WOOD Eliza street Newtown
Can you please explain about your "unknowns" .... are these simply the usual elusive blanks caused by the NSW BDM not yet reconciling their summary records with the actual original church registers?
The NSW BDM's own webpage acknowledges these flaws.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/registry-records.aspx
"Some Registry marriage records from these years recorded only the details pertaining to the parties to the marriage. Details of the parents had been left blank although they appeared in the Church registers. These registrations were amended and a notation made in the margin to record the circumstances of the amendment.
The task of reconciling the Early Church Records and amending the marriage registrations was never finalised. The Registry's records from these years are not complete and it can be worthwhile for genealogists to contact the relevant church to find details missing from a marriage certificate "
Here's a (now lengthy) thread I prepared some time ago to help overcome those elusive blanks. The information was actually provided to the clergy, but not forwarded to the NSW BDM at the time of registration. http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,546609.0.html
Cheers, JM
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Re the 1869 marriage (NSW BDM # 549/1869, registered Sydney)....
You show Joseph James Stone as a witness to Ellen’s marriage, and Joseph as a French Polisher.
Have you checked through the free to search Sands Directories available via the City of Sydney Archives?
I can see there’s a J J STONE, French polisher, at 125 Dowling St, in the 1870 Sands (closing date for entries was end of Oct of the year prior, so for the 1870 listing the closing date was October 1869)
I have hardcopy of many NSW Electoral Rolls for 1870, but I cannot see Joseph in the East Sydney one (most Dowling St would be in that electorate). ADD, Joseph NOT listed on Newtown ER for 1870 either.
Have you looked through the free to search City of Sydney Archives Assessment books (includes tenants, not just landlords/property owners)?
Sands : http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/search-our-collections/sands-directory
Assessment Books: http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/search-our-collections/house-and-building-histories/assessment-books
Maps : http://www.photosau.com.au/CoSMaps/scripts/home.asp
NSW Resources Board at RChat : http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369703.0
Cheers, JM
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NSW ER 1870 EAST SYDNEY
WOOD
Alexander, residence, 134 Gipps Street
Henry, household, 134 Gipps Street
Cheers, JM
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NSW ER 1878 NEWTOWN
John Joseph STONE, household, Dowling St (no street number, differences in given names etc)
Cheers, JM
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The only death for an Alex* WOOD* 1898-1905 IF the information on the above two marriages is correct appears to be this one :-\
Alexander WOOD d. 31 Mar, 1902 PARRAMATTA #6464
Parents: George H & Caroline
Thanks Merlin
A you said that's if the information is correct, a journalist seemed odd. Checked Trove for a Wood, Journalist and nothing. My only thought with the 1902 death is the informant new both his parents names. That's me being sceptical.
Another one which shouldn't be ruled out mainly because I have found nothing on Alexander after 1884.
death
8222/1886 WOOD ALEXANDER
mother JANE E
district CENTRAL CUMBERLAND
EDIT; Forgot to mention I rang Rookwood cemetery and they said nobody else was buried with Ellen.
cheers
Kaz
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Can you please explain about your "unknowns" .... are these simply the usual elusive blanks caused by the NSW BDM not yet reconciling their summary records with the actual original church registers?
The NSW BDM's own webpage acknowledges these flaws.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/registry-records.aspx
"Some Registry marriage records from these years recorded only the details pertaining to the parties to the marriage. Details of the parents had been left blank although they appeared in the Church registers. These registrations were amended and a notation made in the margin to record the circumstances of the amendment.
The task of reconciling the Early Church Records and amending the marriage registrations was never finalised. The Registry's records from these years are not complete and it can be worthwhile for genealogists to contact the relevant church to find details missing from a marriage certificate "
Here's a (now lengthy) thread I prepared some time ago to help overcome those elusive blanks. The information was actually provided to the clergy, but not forwarded to the NSW BDM at the time of registration. http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,546609.0.html
Cheers, JM
[/quote]
I'm not sure as this is the 1st of many marriage certificates I have with so few details.
The marriage reads:-
Groom Alexander John Nash
Status Bachelor
Place of Birth Not Stated
Occupation French Polisher
Age Not Stated
Usual Residence 125 Dowling Street Woolloomooloo
Father Not Stated
Occupation Not Stated
Mother Not Stated
Bride Ellen Stone
Status Spinster
Place of Birth Not Stated
Occupation Domestic Servant
Age Not Stated
Usual Residence 125 Dowling Street Woolloomooloo
Father Not Stated
Occupation Not Stated
Mother Not Stated
Date of Marriage 29 May 1869
Place of Marriage 41 Burton Street Sydney NSW
Religion Free Church of England
Witnesses Joseph James Stone, John Mabee
Minister Wm F X Bailey
cheers
Kaz
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Re the 1869 marriage (NSW BDM # 549/1869, registered Sydney)....
You show Joseph James Stone as a witness to Ellen’s marriage, and Joseph as a French Polisher.
Have you checked through the free to search Sands Directories available via the City of Sydney Archives?
I can see there’s a J J STONE, French polisher, at 125 Dowling St, in the 1870 Sands (closing date for entries was end of Oct of the year prior, so for the 1870 listing the closing date was October 1869)
I have hardcopy of many NSW Electoral Rolls for 1870, but I cannot see Joseph in the East Sydney one (most Dowling St would be in that electorate). ADD, Joseph NOT listed on Newtown ER for 1870 either.
Have you looked through the free to search City of Sydney Archives Assessment books (includes tenants, not just landlords/property owners)?
Sands : http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/search-our-collections/sands-directory
Assessment Books: http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/search-our-collections/house-and-building-histories/assessment-books
Maps : http://www.photosau.com.au/CoSMaps/scripts/home.asp
NSW Resources Board at RChat : http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369703.0
Cheers, JM
Yes I have searched those links before when searching Joseph James Stone.
As for Alexander Wood the last index I can find him on is the Sands directory 1884 French Polisher at 1 Eliza street Newtown.
cheers
Kaz
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I'm not sure as this is the 1st of many marriage certificates I have with so few details.
The marriage reads:-
Groom Alexander John Nash
Status Bachelor
Place of Birth Not Stated
Occupation French Polisher
Age Not Stated
Usual Residence 125 Dowling Street Woolloomooloo
Father Not Stated
Occupation Not Stated
Mother Not Stated
Bride Ellen Stone
Status Spinster
Place of Birth Not Stated
Occupation Domestic Servant
Age Not Stated
Usual Residence 125 Dowling Street Woolloomooloo
Father Not Stated
Occupation Not Stated
Mother Not Stated
Date of Marriage 29 May 1869
Place of Marriage 41 Burton Street Sydney NSW
Religion Free Church of England
Witnesses Joseph James Stone, John Mabee
Minister Wm F X Bailey
cheers
Kaz
The clues are "not stated" and also that there's no mention of any church registers being checked for reconcilation. Sadly though in this instance I should comment that William Francis Xaxier BAILEY was somewhat of a 'marriage shop' celebrant, and it may be that those 'not stated' blanks are not findable via his church registers. BUT 125 Dowling St does help validate Ellen's side. I will pull thinking cap down a tad more :)
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/bailey-william-1731 (also Trove has Bailey's 'career' covered too)
And I have posted on other OP's threads re Rev Bailey and 41 Burton St for example
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=704201.msg5473484#msg5473484
Re the 1869 marriage ..... yes, if you have a Bailey marriage then likely you have all the available information on the document. If you are after the Mitchell Library, try this email link http://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/services/ask/ .
Re 41 Burton St and the reverend http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=587437.0 I still have no knowledge of the location of the original registers that Bailey ought to have used to record the ceremonies he conducted.
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Another one which shouldn't be ruled out mainly because I have found nothing on Alexander after 1884.
death
8222/1886 WOOD ALEXANDER
mother JANE E
district CENTRAL CUMBERLAND
cheers
Kaz
Not that one either:
BIRTH
17727/1885
WOOD, ALEXANDER
Mother: JANE ELEANOR
CENTRAL CUMBERLAND
I wouldn't mind a few moments alone with the Rev. William BAILEY >:(
Debra :)
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I wouldn't mind a few moments alone with the Rev. William BAILEY >:(
Debra :)
Ummm..... I think there's more than just you and me who would like to sort him out. Not even a comment re if either party needed consent.... and he often conducted ceremonies with under age brides, but no comment re if consent was sought.... Add, and sometimes the groom was simply passing though, and resided at Victoria Barracks.... At least this one it is likely the groom worked with his wife's dad....
Cheers, JM
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You need to know more about Alexander John NASH m. 1869 to identify his death. You need a birth certificate of a child to see what age and birthplace is recorded for Alexander.
"....Elizabeth Annie Ellen WOODS m. William Peel JENNINGS 1897......informants of the marriage - Peter Morgan [who adopted her - legally not sure]"
Who is Peter MORGAN.....what do you know about him.........might lead to Alexander?
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Elizabeth Annie Ellen WOODS married in 1897 age 19 to William Peel JENNINGS
*NOTE - The consent of Neil Stewart, being a guardian of minors, was given in writing to the marriage of Elizabeth Annie Ellen Woods with William Peel Jennings, the said Elizabeth being under the age of 21.
Her parents [though different] Frederick Alexander WOODS & Ellen STONE (Deceased)
His occupation is Upholsterer
Informants of the marriage - Peter Morgan [who adopted her - legally not sure] Alfred Charles WOODS [ probably her brother]
Further to Wivenhoe's question, re Peter Morgan, may I please ask you to explain what you mean by "Informants of the marriage" .... Formal adoptions commence in NSW in the 1920s.... so perhaps Peter MORGAN fostered her? If you suspect Alfred Charles Woods was probably her brother, then perhaps you should consider HIS birth certificate too (official transcription).... It should give details as to when and where his parents married, and details about his older siblings....
553/1874 Birth registered Sydney.
NASH Alfred Charles
with parents indexed as Alexander John, and Ellen.
The variations in the surname are not uncommon. Until about 1918, the registration process, particularly for births was simply done by a parent (sometimes by another family member) attending their local registry and providing information verbally in response to questions asked verbally. So, depending on how the question was posed, how it was understood etc depends on the response. Then the informant was asked to sign the registry. The ledger was of course facing the clerk who recorded the information, and then swung around for the informant to sign. Some family members could sign their names, but not everyone was university trained to read the scribble long hand from some of the clerks who recorded these verbal responses..... The typewriter arrived at NSW BDM post WWI too.
Cheers, JM
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Another one which shouldn't be ruled out mainly because I have found nothing on Alexander after 1884.
death
8222/1886 WOOD ALEXANDER
mother JANE E
district CENTRAL CUMBERLAND
cheers
Kaz
Not that one either:
BIRTH
17727/1885
WOOD, ALEXANDER
Mother: JANE ELEANOR
CENTRAL CUMBERLAND
I wouldn't mind a few moments alone with the Rev. William BAILEY >:(
Debra :)
Thanks Debra for ruling this one out.
cheers
Kaz
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Marriage notices refer Elizabeth [Lizzie] as adopted daughter & death notice as foster daughter.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/85769110?
The wedding of the eldest (adopted) daughter of Mr and Mrs P Morgan of Church street Parramatta
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/72552496?
Miss Lizzie Woods adopted daughter of Mr and Mrs P Morgan
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/107298181?
Mrs Jennings whose death followed a long illness was a foster-daughter of the late Peter Morgan and sister of Mr William Wood
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/105930151?
And this link Parramatta 35 years ago
--------------------------------------------------------------------
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/17026889?
Obituary Mr P Morgan
cheers
Kaz