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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: sigrid7 on Thursday 23 July 15 15:24 BST (UK)

Title: Census query and relationship query - MURNANE / MURMANE and McMAHON
Post by: sigrid7 on Thursday 23 July 15 15:24 BST (UK)
I have been looking for John Murnane/Murmane on census and can only find him on the 1851 (FindMyPast) as John Murmane bc 1816 Ireland living in Birkenhead with his wife, two children and a sister in law. The daughter Mary Ann bc 1850 - I have found her baptism and it states mother's name as Mary Cooney. So I am puzzled as to who the Ann Mcmahon is on the 1851 with them as sister in law. I can't find any deaths for John Murnane, or his son Michael nor any further census for them. Nor a marriage or death for the daughter either.

Can anyone find them on any other records please? And can anyone explain the term sister in law in relation to this family?

Thanks very much.
Title: Re: Census query and relationship query
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 23 July 15 15:25 BST (UK)
Sister in law doesn't always mean wife of your brother.
Back then they often used the term for a step sister (sister in the eyes of the law) or a half sister.
Title: Re: Census query and relationship query
Post by: sigrid7 on Thursday 23 July 15 15:29 BST (UK)
Right, thanks. So Ann could have been step/half sister to the head of the household, ie John or is it going to be even more complicated and she could be the step/half sister to John's wife, Mary?
Title: Re: Census query and relationship query
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 23 July 15 15:38 BST (UK)
Do you have this birth cert?

Births Dec 1849   

MURNANE    Mary Ann        Runcorn   vol 19   page 195
Title: Re: Census query and relationship query
Post by: sigrid7 on Thursday 23 July 15 15:41 BST (UK)
No, but I have found the baptism, which stated mother's name was Mary Cooney.
Title: Re: Census query and relationship query
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 23 July 15 15:57 BST (UK)
The requirements when completing a census was that the relationship to the householder(John) was given.But they may not have been literate and Ann could be related to either of them.
Although I think I'd go along with her being a half sister to John,maybe his mum remarried to a Mr McMahon?

Irish records are so difficult to find,I've given up on my half Irish husband's side of the tree  ;D

If only it said more than just Ireland,a place for example.

Carol
Title: Re: Census query and relationship query
Post by: stanmapstone on Thursday 23 July 15 16:25 BST (UK)
The schedule was filled in by the "householder" at the time of the census, who may have had their own interpretation of relationships, a 'daughter-in-law' might mean a step-daughter.

Stan
Title: Re: Census query and relationship query - MURNANE / MURMANE and McMAHON
Post by: sigrid7 on Thursday 23 July 15 17:53 BST (UK)
Yes, having Irish ancestry is hard! Not really found out much, except for born' Ireland' all the time....

Thanks for clarifying the relationship aspect.

I haven't found John on any other census either. Is it a possibility that the family went back to Ireland for some reason? Has anyone ever had this scenario in their tree? I know they probably came over here for work reasons but to go back.... I don't know.
Title: Re: Census query and relationship query - MURNANE / MURMANE and McMAHON
Post by: sigrid7 on Thursday 23 July 15 18:02 BST (UK)
I have found a 'Thomas' Murnane b1813 Ireland in Devon, on ancestry, for 1861. I searched with the other family names and this came up. Can anyone check this one out please, even though it says Thomas? Thanks.
Title: Re: Census query and relationship query - MURNANE / MURMANE and McMAHON
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 23 July 15 18:42 BST (UK)
I have found a 'Thomas' Murnane b1813 Ireland in Devon, on ancestry, for 1861. I searched with the other family names and this came up. Can anyone check this one out please, even though it says Thomas? Thanks.

He’s single a lodger occ Chelsea Pensioner - RG 9; Piece: 1444; Folio: 56; Page: 34

Do you have their son Michael's pob in Ireland ?

You could check the 1901 & 1911 Irish Census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/

Could the family have gone abroad?

Cheshire BMD has following a possible death for Mary & a possible remarriage for John

1858 Mary MURNANE age 44 (1814) Birkenhead Wirral   

1859 Birkenhead, Civil Marriage or Registrar Attended   
John MURNANE      
Mary DOLAN      


Title: Re: Census query and relationship query - MURNANE / MURMANE and McMAHON
Post by: sigrid7 on Thursday 23 July 15 18:46 BST (UK)
Thanks very much for checking. No, I haven't checked the Irish census, so will do that, thanks for the suggestion. Yes, it is a possibility they could have gone abroad, owing to the lack of further census.

Yes looks like a second marriage, to another Mary! Still no sign of them on the 1861.
Title: Re: Census query and relationship query - MURNANE / MURMANE and McMAHON
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 23 July 15 19:04 BST (UK)
Might this be the same Michael?

Event 1883 Michael Murnane born c1843 Cahirconlish
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KM3Y-58D

this might be the same Michael as above
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KM3Y-3J4
Title: Re: Census query and relationship query - MURNANE / MURMANE and McMAHON
Post by: sigrid7 on Thursday 23 July 15 19:54 BST (UK)
Yes, it could be - it might explain not finding him on further census. I will see if this Michael is on the Irish census 1851. Thanks for finding these records.