RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: griogair on Thursday 23 July 15 15:06 BST (UK)
-
Hello,
I have the same problem as many other people researching their Scottish-Irish family history as I have hit a brick wall (several times) in trying to trace my Irish ancestors who came to Scotland in the 1840s. The first record I have of my great x3 grandfather Patrick Gillan (also written as Gillon and Gillen) is in the 1851 census for Duntocher, Dunbartonshire, Scotland where he is stated as being born in Ireland - there is no further information given in any subsequent censuses - or any other official documents - as to town/county/province of origin. He was born around 1833 and died in 1877. He and nearly all of his male family members were involved in ironstone and coal mining in Garscadden, a purpose built mining village in Dunbartonshire, although when he first moved to Scotland he was an agricultural labourer. His parents were Thomas Gillan and Catherine Duffy, both born in Ireland. I know this surname is most common in counties Antrim, Derry, Donegal and Sligo but apart from that I don't really have much more to go on. I have a bit of an idea in my head that he came over from County Antrim but I am unsure now whether someone told me that or whether it was just an original assumption of my own. I realise that this is a familiar problem due to the loss of many Irish records but I was just wondering if anyone may have any ideas on where I could go from here as I'm really stuck on where to go now. I would love to find out where my Gillans originated from. Any help or tips would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks,
Griogair
-
This may be a complete red herring!! rootsireland.ie (subscription site) has two church baptisms for a Mary Killian bapt Mar (no day given) 1839 and John Killian 15 Mar 1843 in Ferbane Co.Offaly. Parents Thomas Killian and Catherine Duffy. Do you have names of Patrick's siblings?
annclare
-
Many thanks for your response, Annclare. That's very interesting. I thought I had siblings for Patrick but it's actually his father's siblings I have, John Gillan (born c. 1805) and Mary Gillan (c. 1823) and possibly a Peter Gillan. I don't seem to have siblings for Patrick.
I'd never thought of my Gillans coming from further south in Ireland. I wonder if there was much emigration from Offaly to Glasgow and surrounding area? The different spellings of the name don't help either!
-
I'm looking to the Gillan/Gillen/Gillon family tree also, I wonder if it is the same tree. I am trying to trace a Laurance, Parents are John/Mary back to Ireland and I can't find them.
-
Hi Zebrakat,
I hadn't come across the name Laurance Gillan before but after reading your post in the Ayrshire thread and seeing Old/New Kilpatrick mentioned there could well be some sort of link. Trying to find the link could be quite tricky though. My earliest Gillan ancestor to come to Scotland was Patrick Gillan b. 1831 (parents Thomas Gillan - Catherine Duffy) sometime before the 1851 census. I'm unsure where in Ireland they originated. Some Gillans had settled in Duntocher (Old Kilpatrick parish) for about 20 years before Patrick came over (from the 1820s) and many Gillans later moved to the purpose built mining village of Garscadden (New Kilpatrick) after around 1860ish. Most seem to be involved in coal/ironstone mining at some point. I've just started trying to catalogue all of the Gillans in the Old and New Kilpatrick parishes as there seems to be a family link between most of them. I'm hoping some clue may pop up as to the origins of my Gillans in Ireland. I'll let you know if I come across anything.
-
Might be worth checking for Poor Law/Workhouse records. Many people born in Ireland who moved to Scotland claimed under the Poor Law (the equivalent of today's social security). If they did, their case files usually noted their parish of origin in Ireland. (This was because for recent arrivals they could be returned to that parish). The records often also contain details of next of kin. Interesting in its own right too. I am not sure where Dunbartonshire Poor Law records are kept. But it might be worth searching for them because if any of these families did claim, it may answer your question as to their origins.
-
Hi Zebrakat,
I hadn't come across the name Laurance Gillan before but after reading your post in the Ayrshire thread and seeing Old/New Kilpatrick mentioned there could well be some sort of link. Trying to find the link could be quite tricky though. My earliest Gillan ancestor to come to Scotland was Patrick Gillan b. 1831 (parents Thomas Gillan - Catherine Duffy) sometime before the 1851 census. I'm unsure where in Ireland they originated. Some Gillans had settled in Duntocher (Old Kilpatrick parish) for about 20 years before Patrick came over (from the 1820s) and many Gillans later moved to the purpose built mining village of Garscadden (New Kilpatrick) after around 1860ish. Most seem to be involved in coal/ironstone mining at some point. I've just started trying to catalogue all of the Gillans in the Old and New Kilpatrick parishes as there seems to be a family link between most of them. I'm hoping some clue may pop up as to the origins of my Gillans in Ireland. I'll let you know if I come across anything.
Thank you, I will keep you updated too. I'm sure they will be a link.
-
Might be worth checking for Poor Law/Workhouse records. Many people born in Ireland who moved to Scotland claimed under the Poor Law (the equivalent of today's social security). If they did, their case files usually noted their parish of origin in Ireland. (This was because for recent arrivals they could be returned to that parish). The records often also contain details of next of kin. Interesting in its own right too. I am not sure where Dunbartonshire Poor Law records are kept. But it might be worth searching for them because if any of these families did claim, it may answer your question as to their origins.
Thank you, I will defo try this. 😄
-
Thanks, Elwyn. That is very helpful. Just seen that Dunbartonshire Poor Law records are held at the Mitchell Library in Glasgow. I'll definitely look them up the next time I'm in Glasgow.
-
Might be worth checking for Poor Law/Workhouse records. Many people born in Ireland who moved to Scotland claimed under the Poor Law (the equivalent of today's social security). If they did, their case files usually noted their parish of origin in Ireland. (This was because for recent arrivals they could be returned to that parish). The records often also contain details of next of kin. Interesting in its own right too. I am not sure where Dunbartonshire Poor Law records are kept. But it might be worth searching for them because if any of these families did claim, it may answer your question as to their origins.
Thank you, I will defo try this. 😄
Hi Zebrakat,
I haven't been able to view the Poor Law records yet but have just discovered that my ancestor Patrick Gillan came from County Cavan in Ireland which narrows down my search for a place of origin for my Gillans quite a bit. Thought this could possibly be of help if you were able to link to my Gillans.
I also came across a birth record for a Laurence Gillon yesterday but you'll probably have this already. Laurence Gillon. b. 22 Aug 1873 at Blairdardie Rows, New Kilpatrick. Father, John Gillon - coalminer. Mother, Ann McAubray. Parents married, 10 Jun 1868, Kilmarnock.
As far as I know Blairdardie was the neighbouring mining township to Garscadden as I mentioned in a previous comment. There seem to be many Gillans involved in coal/ironstone mining in this area at this time.
Best wishes.
-
Might be worth checking for Poor Law/Workhouse records. Many people born in Ireland who moved to Scotland claimed under the Poor Law (the equivalent of today's social security). If they did, their case files usually noted their parish of origin in Ireland. (This was because for recent arrivals they could be returned to that parish). The records often also contain details of next of kin. Interesting in its own right too. I am not sure where Dunbartonshire Poor Law records are kept. But it might be worth searching for them because if any of these families did claim, it may answer your question as to their origins.
Thank you, I will defo try this. 😄
Hi Zebrakat,
I haven't been able to view the Poor Law records yet but have just discovered that my ancestor Patrick Gillan came from County Cavan in Ireland which narrows down my search for a place of origin for my Gillans quite a bit. Thought this could possibly be of help if you were able to link to my Gillans.
I also came across a birth record for a Laurence Gillon yesterday but you'll probably have this already. Laurence Gillon. b. 22 Aug 1873 at Blairdardie Rows, New Kilpatrick. Father, John Gillon - coalminer. Mother, Ann McAubray. Parents married, 10 Jun 1868, Kilmarnock.
As far as I know Blairdardie was the neighbouring mining township to Garscadden as I mentioned in a previous comment. There seem to be many Gillans involved in coal/ironstone mining in this area at this time.
Best wishes.
Hello
No I havent got all the siblings records as yet, so thank you. I was just trying to organise my records to make my search a little more efficient. I do have John & Ann marriage as John was married previously in Ayr. John is my husband 3 x Grandfather. It's his 4 x Grandfather Laurence I can't seem to trace him back to Ireland. I want to obtain John's birth record too because he was born in Ireland I believe.
I do believe John etc all had a sibling called Patrick even my husband has a sibling Patrick. They have consistently used family names for years, Joseph, John, Samuel. Laurance, etc etc
I have a strong feeling there is a connection between our families.
-
Link to new topic to avoid duplication-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=728662.new#new
-
I'm looking for my Great-great grandfather Luke Gillen. I'm not entirely sure where in Ireland he's from suffice to say he was born about 1825. Although I don't know specifically based on my Ancestry DNA tests it might be Connacht (Mayo, South and West), or Muenster (Cork, Central and East).
He married a Bridget Burns in the US but I suspect the families knew each other in Ireland. Bridget (or Bridgette or Brigida) was born in Feb, 1828, but where precisely in Ireland is unknown to me.
I see by the posts in this forum topic that there are Gillens on root chat so I'm hoping to get in contact with someone who can give me a hand understanding where the Gillen family are concentrated.
Thanks,
Mark Gillen
-
Mark, I found a Luke Gillen in the Tithe Applotment Books (probably too early for your Luke-but an idea).
1829
Luke Gillen
townland: Mullinary Cortenell
parish: Aghnamullen
county:Monaghan
In Griffiths Valuation:
1854
Luke Gillan
townland: Tinode
parish: Street (Granard)
county:Westmeath
1858
Luke Gillan
townland: Knappagh Beg
parish: St John
county: Sligo
Just to give an idea of maybe where to look.
-
Mark has since begun a topic about Luke Gillen.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=866254
-
Mark, I found a Luke Gillen in the Tithe Applotment Books (probably too early for your Luke-but an idea).
1829
Luke Gillen
townland: Mullinary Cortenell
parish: Aghnamullen
county:Monaghan
In Griffiths Valuation:
1854
Luke Gillan
townland: Tinode
parish: Street (Granard)
county:Westmeath
1858
Luke Gillan
townland: Knappagh Beg
parish: St John
county: Sligo
Just to give an idea of maybe where to look.
Thanks, these are wonderful. My Luke Gillen was born around 1825 but where in Ireland is a complete mystery. His marriage to Bridget Burns took place in the United States in November of 1844 so my Luke pre-dates the Luke Gillen's you mentioned, however, I'm hoping that one Gillen will lead to another. I'm also doing the search genetically which is how I came upon a Thaddeus Gillen married to an Anna Lenhan (or Lenaghan). I mean every thread is one more thread I didn't have before.
Thank you for taking the time to add to my research.
Regards,
Mark Gillen
-
Mark, I found a Luke Gillen in the Tithe Applotment Books (probably too early for your Luke-but an idea).
1829
Luke Gillen
townland: Mullinary Cortenell
parish: Aghnamullen
county:Monaghan
In Griffiths Valuation:
1854
Luke Gillan
townland: Tinode
parish: Street (Granard)
county:Westmeath
1858
Luke Gillan
townland: Knappagh Beg
parish: St John
county: Sligo
Just to give an idea of maybe where to look.
Thanks, these are wonderful. My Luke Gillen was born around 1825 but where in Ireland is a complete mystery. His marriage to Bridget Burns took place in the United States in November of 1844 so my Luke pre-dates the Luke Gillen's you mentioned, however, I'm hoping that one Gillen will lead to another. I'm also doing the search genetically which is how I came upon a Thaddeus Gillen married to an Anna Lenhan (or Lenaghan). I mean every thread is one more thread I didn't have before.
Thank you for taking the time to add to my research.
Regards,
Mark Gillen
I'm wondering if the Luke Gillen in Sligo might be related to a Thaddeus (or Thadeus) Gillen also from Sligo, Drumcliff Parish I believe. I know I have a genetic match to Thaddeus so perhaps Gillen in Sligo might prove to be a useful lead.
Again thanks for your help.
Regards,
Mark Gillen
-
Mark. There comes a point in Irish genealogy where everyone hits a brick wall because of issues with lack of records, and unfortunately it is fairly recent, 1800-1820s for most. Many people have gotten to the brick wall point that you are at, and have either given up on Irish genealogy or began YDNA testing. It's has become popular especially for those of Irish descent because it opens up more avenues of research. Unlike Autosomal DNA which fades away after a few generations YDNA will tell you who you are related to for thousands of years as well so you can see where your family branched off from other families over the centuries.
An extra benefit of YDNA testing is that you can connect to people that have a connection to a certain area or a certain person already and can join projects to further your Genealogy research.
I myself have tested the BigY at FTDNA, and am trying to find more Gillen/Gillan connections. Through autosomal DNA I have matches in county Mayo, Sligo, Donegal, Tyrone, and Antrim. As you have said in a post your Gillens may be of Scottish descent which is something I am trying to prove as well, YDNA testing can help. Reach out if you have questions. - Bill Gillen