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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: barnoldswick on Thursday 16 July 15 19:13 BST (UK)

Title: Richard Russell (b 1834 - died 1869) Auditor of Trinidad 1862 - 1869
Post by: barnoldswick on Thursday 16 July 15 19:13 BST (UK)
I am trying to find information about Richard Russell prior to his appointment to Trinidad in 1862.
I have identified his immediate family and his marriage to Rosa Harrison Reid Harley in 1861, but am curious as to how he got his appointment i.e. what was he doing prior to 1862 ?

Any snippets gratefully received.
Title: Re: Richard Russell (b 1834 - died 1869) Auditor of Trinidad 1862 - 1869
Post by: chempat on Thursday 16 July 15 22:01 BST (UK)
Welcome to rootschat, barnoldswick.

Could you say where he was born, his parents, and his occupation from the marriage certificate?

Thank-you
Title: Re: Richard Russell (b 1834 - died 1869) Auditor of Trinidad 1862 - 1869
Post by: barnoldswick on Thursday 16 July 15 22:26 BST (UK)
Richard Russell was born on August 1st 1833 (not 1834 as originally posted) in Hammersmith, Middlesex. On the marriage certificate of March 12th 1861 his profession is 'Gentleman',Richard and Rosa's ages are referred to as 'Full Age' only. The two witnesses are his older brothers John and William.
His father was James Russell, who had been a grocer, and had died in 1843.  His mother's name was Mary Ann (nee Donnely I think).
Title: Re: Richard Russell (b 1834 - died 1869) Auditor of Trinidad 1862 - 1869
Post by: chempat on Thursday 16 July 15 22:31 BST (UK)
Thank-you.

Just looking and presumably this is him:

http://www.archive.org/stream/historicalandst00hartgoog/historicalandst00hartgoog_djvu.txt

Added:
Just to confirm:
Richard Russell
Born  1 Aug 1833   Baptised    29 Dec 1833  at St. Paul, Hammersmith, Middlesex, England
Father  James Russell   Mother  Mary Ann
FHL Film Number:   1966218
Reference ID:   item 2 p 76

and the marriage was before the 1861 England census.
Title: Re: Richard Russell (b 1834 - died 1869) Auditor of Trinidad 1862 - 1869
Post by: chempat on Thursday 16 July 15 23:09 BST (UK)
1851 census?
Dover   Kent
.......
Carcline London   20  milliner
Frederick Cale   18 Apprentice
xxxxRichard Russell   17 Desk Clerk born Hammersmith London
James Pitett   15 apprentice
Catherine Colema   49
Elizt Bobyannah   21
James Rigden   17
 HO107  Piece  1632   Folio 505   Page 47 
Title: Re: Richard Russell (b 1834 - died 1869) Auditor of Trinidad 1862 - 1869
Post by: barnoldswick on Friday 17 July 15 00:33 BST (UK)
Yes, that is the correct Richard Russell. The marriage was on the 12th March 1861 so before the Census for that year, which I believe was on the 7th April.
I am not sure that the 1851 census in Dover, Kent is him as two of his older brothers are still in Hammersmith working in a bank at that time. Thomas was married in Kensington in 1854 to Valeria Harley who was a sister of Richard's bride Rosa Harley, but the age and birth place look very good.
It is intriguing to me that he managed to become Auditor General within 11 years of being perhaps a clerk. I think I need to find out what sort of position it was e.g. civil service, army etc. His son C H Russell 's entry in Oxford University matriculation lists his father as " Richard, arm." which I assume means army ? This family tree stuff can definitely be a 'two pipe problem' - where's Watson when you need him !



Census Record for the brothers :-
RG number: HO107
Piece: 1571
Folio: 386
Page: 29
Reg. District: Lambeth
Sub District: St Mary's Lambeth 1st Part
Parish: Lambeth
Enum. District: 20
Ecclesiastical District: St Mary's 1st Part
City/Municipal Borough: Lambeth
Address: 6, Wolsingham Place, Lambeth
County: Surrey

SAXTON, Charles B Head Married M 38 1813 Gacler At White & St Prison Melcombe, Dorsetshire
SAXTON, Matilda Wife Married F 45 1806 St Geo H S, Middlesex
POIDEVAN, Charles Boarder Unmarried M 27 1824 Clerk To A Banker St Jas Westr, Middlesex
POIDEVAN, Ellen Boarder Unmarried F 26 1825 Annuitant St Jas Westr, Middlesex
COSSER, Letitia Inmate Unmarried F 44 1807 Annuitant Calcutta B Subject
RUSSELL, John Inmate Unmarried M 26 1825 Clerk To A Banker Hamh, Middlesex
RUSSELL, Thomas Inmate Unmarried M 20 1831 Clerk To A Banker Hamh, Middlesex
Title: Re: Richard Russell (b 1834 - died 1869) Auditor of Trinidad 1862 - 1869
Post by: chempat on Friday 17 July 15 06:52 BST (UK)
A little about auditor general - seems to have been introduced by Gladstone in the 1860's

http://www.nao.org.uk/about-us/our-work/history-of-the-nao/

Right man in the right place?

Do not know about that 'arm' for 'army'.

Though does 'auditor of Trinidad' have the same importance as 'auditor general'?
Title: Re: Richard Russell (b 1834 - died 1869) Auditor of Trinidad 1862 - 1869
Post by: Infobunny on Friday 31 July 15 09:47 BST (UK)
Hi All,

I found a reference in the National Archives here http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C987697 that mentions Richard Russell being the Receiver General. It is in 1869 after his death?

Here, http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C987685, it mentions him being the acting Receiver General around 1866.

Here, https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/22485/page/1008/data.pdf, notes his appointment as Auditor General in February 1861.  If he isn't in the 1861 England Census, it is possible that he was already out there and this was the result of a recommendation back to England.  Trinidad must have had a governer at the time who knew him in order to make such a recommendation.

Cheers,
Bunny 8)
Title: Re: Richard Russell (b 1834 - died 1869) Auditor of Trinidad 1862 - 1869
Post by: avm228 on Friday 31 July 15 10:29 BST (UK)
"Mr Russell", bound for Trinidad, was among the 64 passengers on board the Tasmanian, which sailed from Southampton on 17 April 1861 "with the West India and Pacific mails", according to the Times of 18 April 1861.  (Presumably his new wife also travelled, but she did not get a mention).
Title: Re: Richard Russell (b 1834 - died 1869) Auditor of Trinidad 1862 - 1869
Post by: Bookbox on Friday 31 July 15 10:35 BST (UK)
I think I need to find out what sort of position it was e.g. civil service, army etc. His son C H Russell 's entry in Oxford University matriculation lists his father as " Richard, arm." which I assume means army ?
Do not know about that 'arm' for 'army'.

Not 'army', but Latin armiger (literally, 'bearer of arms'), by this date often translated as 'Esquire'.
Title: Re: Richard Russell (b 1834 - died 1869) Auditor of Trinidad 1862 - 1869
Post by: barnoldswick on Friday 31 July 15 22:51 BST (UK)
The reference to 'arm' for Richard Russell came from the book 'Oxford Men  1880 - 1892' by Joseph Foster published in 1893 listing Oxford Alumni. The Book has no key to the abbreviations used (presumably all in common usage then). He uses "gent." "gen"  "esq." and "cler" (cleric ?)  when not ascribing a particular profession to the father of the student e.g. captain 14th light infantry or director-general ordnance factories. Do you have any insight into these abbreviations and whether there is any overlap with the term "arm." or subtleties of use ?
Title: Re: Richard Russell (b 1834 - died 1869) Auditor of Trinidad 1862 - 1869
Post by: Bookbox on Saturday 01 August 15 01:28 BST (UK)
Armiger would suggest that the father (Richard) was entitled to bear a coat-of-arms.

I can't comment on Foster's specific usage in Oxford Men and their Colleges. But that volume is a continuation of his Alumni Oxonienses (in several volumes, many online). You might want to read through Foster's own introduction to one of the earlier volumes for any gloss on the abbreviations and terminology that he used.
Title: Re: Richard Russell (b 1834 - died 1869) Auditor of Trinidad 1862 - 1869
Post by: barnoldswick on Thursday 06 August 15 16:24 BST (UK)
Thanks for that information. Do you know whether a Octavius Harley was also on that ship traveling to Trinidad ? He was Richard Russell's brother-in-law, who also ended up in Trinidad in the administration there (I have a record for him for 1862 working there ) ?
 
Title: Re: Richard Russell (b 1834 - died 1869) Auditor of Trinidad 1862 - 1869
Post by: Bookbox on Thursday 06 August 15 18:11 BST (UK)
Octavius Harley is not mentioned in The Times report referred to in reply #8.