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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => US Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Tara-Leigh on Thursday 16 July 15 07:34 BST (UK)
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Good Evening All ~ I've always had great luck posting requests ~ so I'm in hopes we'll be able to break this brick wall...
I've posted this request before but had lost my original notes ~ I've now found!!!!
My great-grandmother was Katherine Marie Meisner, often went by Marie Katherine Meisner born 11/18/1898 ?? Some of the records show 1900. Some of her records show she was born in Denmark and some show she was born in Utah??? The family story is that her father was Peter Meisner and mother Maren Sorensen. While they were traveling to the United States her mother gave birth to her and died during childbirth. During the next few years her father re-married and the new wife wanted nothing to do with his children especially the youngest one and it was at that point he had to put my great-grandmother into an orphanage. Let me tell you for about 40 years we all believed this story. About 4years ago I found infomation that this story was not true. In fact what I found out makes a bit more sense, but breaks my heart so I would really like to finish this story and fill in the gaps. This is what I know now to be true:
My great-grandmother was born 11-18-1895 to 1898 - I'm not sure exactly where she was indeed born because if she was born in 1895 then she would have been born in Denmark. If she was born in 1898-1900 then she would have been born in the United States because I do have ship records showing the family coming to America in 1896. I should say the family of Peter Meisner and Maren (Sorensen) Meisner with my great-grandmother's siblings. They are traveling with a younger daughter with a very similiar name as my gg-mother but I can't confirm it's her or another sibling.
Here's why...the skeleton in the closet is who her mother actually was....Peter's wife Maren was sick and dying from 1900 to 1902 when she passed away. The story is that Peter had an affair with a woman by the name of Katherine White during that time of his wife's passing. Katherine White was apparently married as well with several other children (not all from her husband) she may have also suffered from some mental illness because of how she coped with these affairs. The children when born were given their fathers last names. Somewhere shortly after Maren passed away Katherine approached Peter Meisner basically dropping her off on his doorstep. Unable to explain the child to the family of his wife who passed away he was unable to keep the child (my ggrandmother) his other children by Maren stayed with him for awhile but eventually were sent to live with family across the states. My great-grandfather sent her to an orphanage in Los Angeles, CA. I actually spoke to one of the nuns that remembered her and was in her charge, these were the notes I lost over the years and recently found. The orphanage is (was) The Convent of the Good Shepherd in Los Angeles, CA. I will have to try and get those records by phone or find out where they've gone to. My struggle is that I can not find any census or school records or really anything showing my great-grandmother existed before 1922 when she got married. How she actually got to Los Angeles, from either Utah or Idaho, is a mystery. Her father Peter Meisner eventually settled down with his 2nd wife Thomine in Idaho and he was a cobbler (shoe-maker). The odd twist to all this was my ggrandmother eventually needed a birth certificate and had to get an affidaviate from her father and a statement from the family bible... to prove her birth...so she not only re-united with her father, but when she had my grandmother at some point she reunited with her siblings, because my grandmother had fond memories with her cousins, whom I actually spoke with during some of my earlier research...everyone and anyone that shared those memories or have additional information have also passed on. My ggrandmothers life was so very tramatic, filled with heart-ache, tons of loss and her life ended in the same manner that I would love to fill in the missing info and finish her story. I would also love to finish this for my father as well before his time comes. They shared a very solid, loving relationship and they were so close ~ one of the few joyful moments in her life....Any help to finishing this story would so greatly be appreciated.
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So what does your g-grandmother's birth certificate say as to her date and place of birth and her mother's name? Surely if her father gave the info, it would be correct?
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"1922 when she got married"
Who did she marry and where?
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This is a link to the past thread about this family: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=664973.0
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This is one of the mysteries...my dad and I figure when my ggrandmother applied for social security (1950's???) she had to apply for a birth certificate. When I use to assess tenants in apartment bldgs for the Archdiosese I came across an interesting fact on my first time out...I noticed every single tenant was born in 1900...I had to ask because what are the odds...that was when I learned about social security in it's infantcy. Most people either didn't have a birth certificate, or they were born on the prairie (so to speak) and had to wait for the nearest priest to record the birth either in the family bible or the church records. So like I said my dad and I think that after thinking she was an orphan for many years now discovers she had a father and siblings. She did get a statement recording her birth from the family bible in order to get a make shift birth certificate, but then I have marriage certificates that all mark her place of birth and her birthdate , each one showing a different date and place.
What I'm looking for specifically is that 1910 census in Los Angeles showing her listed at the Convent of the Good Shepherd. Also, one of the members here found a census I think from 1905 showing the family and another daughter with a similiar name being with the catholic church orphanage in like Chicago (????) so we're not sure if the family gave her to the church there and the nuns came to LA on a mission trip with my ggrandmother or if my gggrandfather brought her to LA. Most of the girls in the family (her siblings) were named either Marie Katherine, Katherine Marie, Anne Marie, or Marie Anne...several of them all died around my great grandmothers birth so its very hard to confirm which one she is if at all because don't forget Maren Sorensen was not her mother...so again I hit a brick wall with more questions.
When I spoke to the nuns 25 years ago they said she constantly ran away and they would go retrieve her...shortly before her 18th birthday she hopped the wall again and by this time the nuns gave up. She met Harold Trimble and they married in 1922...so on that note she would have her birth anywhere from 1898 - 1902. If that is true then she wasn't born in Denmark cause the family came to america 1896. I can't find any information on the person we know now to be her mother Katherine White...We know my gggrandfather moved from Idaho to Utah and back and forth again. And yes the family (her siblings) were all solid members of the Morman Church. I'm waiting to hear back from the nuns at the orpanage to acquire the admittance records, and in hopes while waiting someone here might actually have a census for me to look at...
My 35+ year search continues on ;D
Anything is helpful
Tara
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FYI -
There is no birth certificate. Social Security accepted the family bible and a note from her father. Social Security uses 1900 for people born before and if theres no documentation. Her other documentation states 1898. But as we're locating more and more information regarding my great grandmother we're seeing her birth could actually be as early as 1895.
What I'm looking for at this moment is a census for 1910 los angeles, ca showing the Convent of the Good Shepherd. I spoke to the nun that admitted her it appears the nun is still alive, but I can't imagine that to be so. Her name is Sister Eileen Robinson.
I have a request posted to the sisters to try and get a copy of her admitting records and hopefully that will be telling to a lot more information.
I'm also trying to figure out if the "Mirah" living at the Good Shepherd in Colorado is her as well and maybe she was transferred from there to Los Angeles.
Again, any help is so greatly appreciated.
Tara
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Hi
I have now found the birth of Mirah (Marie). She was born 18 Nov 1894 in Aarhus, Marie Katrine Meisner Madsen......
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=17124488#165453,27792382 page 32, record nr 7.
I hope the link works.
It says that the father was a married man, Sorike (?) Mattesen a farmer from Esbjerg. It also states that Maren's husband Hans Peter Andreas Meisner was in America at the time.
Regards Ian
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Wow Ian ~
I don't know what to say...this new information now completely changes the story and the truth...
Is there a way to get the full translation? Is this her birth certificate...so to speak? So if I'm reading
this correctly she would have been 2 when they went to america and when Maren Sorenson died in 1902 this might be why she was put in the orphanage??? Wow...and do you have that census that show Mirah in the orphanage in Colorado Springs????
Wow...I don't know what to say...and where did Katherine White come into all this....jeeze! Who is Katherine White ????? I'm completely shocked...don't expect you to answer the last set of questions...I'm just talking out loud...
Anything else you can find for me on this family and who the daddy is??? We're they all neighbors or something????
Thanks
Tara
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Hi
Here is the census:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MK45-KGY
Ian
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According to the Danish Emigrant records they lived in Aarhus at that time. They lived in Esbjerg on the west coast and had moved to Aarhus on the east coast. I will look further in Esbjerg as I think she was pregnant when moving to Aarhus as the father was also from Esbjerg who probably stayed behind.
Ian
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Wow...I'm speechless! So it's pretty apparent that Maren had the affair, cause Meisner was in America...So technically Meisner isn't even my great grandfather if I read this correctly right? If I remember correctly Meisner was born in Esbjerg...hummm...wonder if they knew each other...is it possible that the father of my great grandmother was married to Katherine White???
Thanks again for unraveling this mystery!!! If you never connect this original post I'd probably still be at square one. This information you've researched has been priceless!!!
Thanks again
Tara
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Cheers Tara.
I'll get back later with, hopefully more info.
Also a translation for you.
Ian
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Here is the original 1890 Census for the Meisner Family:
http://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/sogn1182/census1890/opslag9156717
Ian
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Translation: (with a little help from fellow member Brilau)
Abandoned wife Maren
Sørensen (her husband, Hans
Peter Andreas Maisner Madsen
with whom she was married 30 June 1885 in Taps
Chuch, has left for America) at
Kasted poor house and claimed
father of the child, married man
Sønke Mattesen living in Esbjerg
The mother is 36 years old
Baptised by Minister P E Glahn at the Church on 10 March 1895
Maid Mette Marie Pedersen, Kasted poorhouse
Labourer Peter Kristoffersen's wife Karen Marie Jörgensen, Kasted Mark
Labourer Peder Fredriksen, Kasted poorhouse
Ian
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Absolutely Fabulous! What a great job...
I have shared the info with my father...it's funny if you follow the trail I'm not so sure Maren was actually abandoned. But she was alone...they were reunited and traveled across the country so what actually transpired we just can't say but you have solved a major mystery and that is priceless!
Once again Ian! I can never thank you enough!!!
Tara
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i know of a Meissner family in Brisbane Australia......maybe in your searches try the double s.... maybe in germanic languages it comes up a the B as well?
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Cheers Tara.
Regards Ian
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I have tried to find Sønke Mattesen but without success.
Here are a couple of sites I use which can come in handy:
http://www.danishfamilysearch.com/
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/geo/index/5
http://ddd.dda.dk/ddd_en.htm
Ian
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Hi Ian ~
I'm back with more questions. I've read all the past notes and viewed the links and census (eyes are starting to bug out...lol) but I'm really starting to wonder about something...
Here we go...
On the records that show Marie or Mirah, etc as being born I believe 1894 or 1895 and passing away within the next year...I'm just wondering if that isn't actually my great grandmother.
I'm wondering if his wife Maren Sorenson had the affair in Denmark with Sonke Matteson and when meeting up with Meisner in the US lied to him about the baby...when he discovered the truth...she not him turned the baby into the orphanage and told him the baby died while traveling out to meet up with him. Or something like that...cause this whole Michagin and Colorado thing and only some of the family knowing of my ggmother it's just fishy and no one is alive that remembers her or the stories. Just wondering how to put a truthful timeline together...it's really suspicious how the last 3 girls she had were all named Marie...no??? and how they didn't live more than a year....
Maybe someone can steer me in a direction?
Any help is always appreciated...love you guys!
Happy Holidays to all
Tara
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What a sad story. .
Great detective work....
Have you or your father thought of taking DNA it could throw up relatives that would prove if Katherine WHITE existed or if the birth father named was the correct person.
Good luck
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Hello ~
Yes as of date both my father and I have posted DNA on ancestry.com. I'm on 23 and me and a few others out there. Only recently have I seen connections to my fathers side, but they are 5-6th cousins. Which isn't bad but they link to mostly his fathers side and this would be connections we need on his mothers side. Yet we'll keep searching.
Thanks for ideas...any and all are always welcome.
Tara