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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: Redrose 59 on Sunday 12 July 15 13:36 BST (UK)
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Hopefully someone can help me..........This is what I believe to be correct so far.
Samuel Wilkinson born 1853 died 1946. ( my GG Grandfather)
He married Martha Cooper ( my GG Grandmother) in 1874 at Acton Parish Church and Elizabeth Ralphes in 1881.
I can find him on the 1881, 1891,1901 and 1911 Census no bother. But I have a puzzle come the 1871 census. I have found 2 Samuel Wilkinsons, one who appears to have the "right" people living with him but the wrong age and one with the right age and possibly living with his parents.
1871
Beach Lane Weaverham.
Samuel Wilkinson age 28 head....Gardener
Martha Wilkinson age 24 wife...........I think this might be Martha Cooper
Mary E Wilkinson age 7 months daughter.........I think this is Mary Ellen Cooper, my G Grandmother but she would have been aged 3 as she was born c1867.
Rose A Wilkinson age 3 daughter ..........Could the ages of the children just been swapped/written around by mistake?
1871
Baddington
John Wilkinson age 65 Ag Labourer....Samuels father was named as John Wilkinson on marriage certificate.
Dinah Wilkinson age 55 wife
Samuel Wilkinson age 17 son Brickmaker......this would be the correct age.
James Wilkinson age 13 son.
I'm leaning towards the Beach Lane Weaverham being the correct Samuel, but would be interested to know the thoughts of much more experienced folk on here. And is there anyway to be sure?
Many thanks.
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You say he only married Martha in 1874 yet they appear together as man & wife in 1871?
1871
Beach Lane Weaverham.
Samuel Wilkinson age 28 head....Gardener
Martha Wilkinson age 24 wife...........I think this might be Martha Cooper
If he was born 1853 - he would only be 18yrs old in 1871 so cannot be the entry you quote above
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Could this be him in 1871 :
Address: Hack House, Baddington, Nantwich, Cheshire, England.
Father: John born 1806.
Wife: Dinah born 1816.
Samuel born 1854
James born 1858.
RG10
Piece number 3712
Folio 54
Page 9.
Samuel gives father as John on his 19 Sept 1874 marriage to Martha Cooper
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Thanks CaroleW I see exactly where you're coming from and those are thoughts that have gone round and round but.......
I am wondering if that Mary Ellen was born out of wedlock and Martha and Samuel got married later?
I cannot find Martha Cooper on the 1871 census or her daughter Mary Ellen.
Would/could Samuel have lied about his age to the census taker? Did they just say all their names were Wilkinson to make life "easier"?
When my grandmother ( mary Ellen Cooper ) got married her father was named as Samuel Wilkinson on the marriage certificate. His occupation was given as Railway signalman and he's easy enough to find on the census from 1881 to 1911. ( living in Nantwich)
He is a widower on the 1881 census and has a Mary E Wilkinson, daughter, age 14 living with him. He would have been very young to have been her father but then I suppose it's not the first time something like that would ever have happened! lol.
Huckleberry, that's where my original dilemma lay......... could it be the Samuel Wilkinson in Baddington or the other one in Weaverham?
This family history can be so frustrating but so much fun all at the same time! I often wonder why I started it when I can't figure things out! I expect that is the norm when someone is a beginner like me?
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Martha died June qtr 1880 aged 32 which ties in with her age being 24 in 1871
I think Rose A may have been this birth as 1871 shows her born Blackley Lancashire and Lancs BMD shows this birth was registered in Blackley sub district
Births March qtr 1868
Rosanna Wilkinson Manchester 8d 381
There is no death for Rose between 1871-1881 but she is not with Samuel in 1881. There is a Rosannah Wilkinson aged 13 b Blackley working as a servant in Salford in 1881
RG11 Piece 3977 Folio 25 Page 3
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Martha died June qtr 1880 aged 32 which ties in with her age being 24 in 1871
I think Rose A may have been this birth as 1871 shows her born Blackley Lancashire and Lancs BMD shows this birth was registered in Blackley sub district
Births March qtr 1868
Rosanna Wilkinson Manchester 8d 381
There is no death for Rose between 1871-1881 but she is not with Samuel in 1881. There is a Rosannah Wilkinson aged 13 b Blackley working as a servant in Salford in 1881
RG11 Piece 3977 Folio 25 Page 3
Thanks ever so much for that CaroleW. If only we could time travel it would make life so much easier! lol. As I don't live locally all of my research is done online which isn't always ideal. But I'll keep plugging away and hopefully gather more evidence about my family.
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Hi,
A train of thought for you to consider.
You have shown the 1871 census for the "Wilkinson's" in Acton/Baddington - when you check the 1861 census there is a further son Joseph who was born in 1851. Taking him through the 1881/91/1901 censuses he was also working on the railways, as was Samuel.
Same trade - maybe same family?
Joseph appears to have ended up at Hodnet, Shropshire (shown as Wilkenson on the 1901 census).
Another thought - the 1891 census has the other brother James in a Nantwich workhouse as a pauper. The line above him has an entry for a William Cooper - part of his wife's family?
See what you think
Alan
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Hi,
Another thought that points me towards the Acton/Baddington family is that Weaverham/Great Budworth is over 20 miles away. Also Samuel's 1946 death was registered in the Crewe area which includes Nantwich/Acton/Baddington.
Assuming it was the family in Weaverham, his death would have been registered as Northwich area
My preference is that the Baddington family is most likely the right one.
Alan
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Hi,
A train of thought for you to consider.
You have shown the 1871 census for the "Wilkinson's" in Acton/Baddington - when you check the 1861 census there is a further son Joseph who was born in 1851. Taking him through the 1881/91/1901 censuses he was also working on the railways, as was Samuel.
Same trade - maybe same family?
Joseph appears to have ended up at Hodnet, Shropshire (shown as Wilkenson on the 1901 census).
Another thought - the 1891 census has the other brother James in a Nantwich workhouse as a pauper. The line above him has an entry for a William Cooper - part of his wife's family?
See what you think
Alan
Thanks Alan,
Oh my! Confused??? You bet I am now lol.
I have found James in the 1891 census in the workhouse as you said. I'm not sure but the name above looks more like a Samuel rather than William Cooper? Can you read what it says on the far right of the census? It looks like "Imbecile from ?????" ( Poor man! )
Many thanks for your thoughts Alan. Much appreciated
Lynn
Just had another thought...........
If we assume that the "correct" Samuel Wilkinson is the one in Baddington in 1871 then where is my Great Grandmother Mary Ellen Cooper in 1871?
She was born c1868 in Coppenhall.
She married Fred Egerton in 1892 at Frodsham parish Church. Her father was named as Samuel Wilkinson. Occupation Signalman.
And this is where the whole saga began. I asked initially about Mary Ellen Cooper and Fred Egerton on another thread and I thought with the help from some lovely folk on here that we'd got it cracked. But then it all went skew in 1871! I can't see the wood for the trees anymore. Lol.
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Hi Lynn,
Sorry to confuse you - I feel a bit confused myself getting Samuels mixed up.
Yes, James in 1891 at the workhouse is shown as "imbecile from childhood" - I suppose was protected by his parents until they died in the 1880's. The line above shows Samuel Cooper - do you think perhaps he was Martha's father?
I will look at the censuses to see if I can see Mary Ellen and/or Martha
Alan
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Hi Lynn,
Drawn a blank on the censuses for Martha/Mary Ellen in 1871 apart from the one in Weaverham, which doesn't tie in with Mary Ellen's place of birth as Coppenhall - incidentally, my suspicion is this is Monks Coppenhall (just outside of Nantwich).
I am inclined to think they were missed/away when the census took place, which doesn't help to identify the right family.
I feel certain Mary Ellen was born out of wedlock and would assume it was a bit of a scandal at the time.
My inclination is towards the Acton/Baddington lot but without any real certainty.
Alan
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Many thanks Alan for your time and effort. Don't worry about confusing me.............I manage to do that to myself with no help needed lol. In trying to keep my brain active I think I'm killing off what few cells I have left!
I'm starting to think that this is where this particular branch ends unless you have any other ideas of what I should/could be doing?
If I have the right Martha Cooper then I think her father Samuel was born c1814 in Wrenbury. She also had a brother called Samuel born c1859. The poor house Samuel would have been born c1823 if the record is correct.
I was born in Warrington but left there some 33 years ago and am not familiar with the Nantwich and Cheshire areas where my ancestors appear to come from. Some place names I recognise but others I've never heard of, Coppenhall for example.
Once again many thanks for all your patience and help.
Lynn
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Hi Lynn,
An idea for your consideration - tracking Martha Cooper. This shows -
The 1881 census for Samuel Wilkinson shows 2 children Harriet A and Mary E with him being a widower. His wife Martha (nee Cooper) died in 1880. The findagrave.com web site shows the death of Martha Cooper Wilkinson at Stapeley on 9 May 1880 (Buried at St Chad, 12 May 1880) - I assume this is her.
Stapeley is just south of Nantwich and the details show her birth as 11 Feb 1847 at Bunbury, Cheshire. She was baptised 17 Mar 1847 the daughter of Samuel and Ann (nee Vickers) Cooper. Samuel being from Wrenbury.
At home with Samuel (age 58) in 1871 (living in Coppenhall) is his wife Ann, and John 18, Samuel 12, Ann 10 and Mary 8. Whilst they are described as children, I wondered if the Mary (who is the only one whose birth place is shown as Coppenhall) could have been Martha's child/his granddaughter born 1867 and possibly mistranscribed or described by them as a daughter for the benefit of the census?
I can see Martha in 1851 at home and think in 1861 as a servant with her sister Alice with the Horton family (her place of birth is shown as Harlington but it appears to be her age 13 with Alice being 19).
Maybe a long shot but does this help to tie thing down to the Nantwich area? Martha's whereabouts in 1871 is still a mystery, but the family details all point to the Wrenbury/Nantwich/Coppenhall corridor and show no signs of going anywhere near Weaverham.
Alan
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Hi Lynn,
I have just trawled the 1871 census for Coppenhall and found a Martha Cooper as a servant to James Whittaker (age 53) and his wife Mary (age 42). Her age is shown as 17 and her birthplace as Church Minshull (this is within the Bunbury/Nantwich area).
Whilst it is not accurate in terms of her age, perhaps it is the solution, with her daughter placed with her grandparents (again age not quite accurate) and Martha continuing working as a servant in the area.
When Martha married Samuel Wilkinson in 1874 did it have her address on the marriage certificate - does it tie in with any of the census details?
Alan
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Hi Alan,
Many thanks for all your hard work. I've been away for a few days so haven't had time to look at all your info. I shall have a good look tomorrow.
I really can't thank you enough, you really are a star.
Lynn
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Hi Alan,
regarding the marriage certificate: Married on September 19th 1874 at The Parish Church, Acton.
Samuel Wilkinsons address is given as Coole Pilate.
Martha Cooper address is "Edlerton"........this is what it looks like but I can't find this on a map?
The witnesses were a Joseph Lawton and a Harriet Cooper.
Lynn
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Hello Lynn,
"Edlerton" is most likely Edleston, (south west of Nantwich) a couple of miles from Acton.
Coole Pilate - this is about 2 miles south of Baddington where Samuel was in 1871.
Hope this helps
Alan