RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: Aboreal Addict on Saturday 11 July 15 16:47 BST (UK)
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My Great grandmother Amelie (no surname) was born in Brussels in approx 1875 and presumably married there in 1892 to a Richard Caudwell from the UK and their first two children are born in Belgium before they moved back to the UK.
Is it possible to find a marraige for her and then a birth ?
Thanks.
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It might be possible. Looking carefully at the census, Amelie was born in Brussels (Bruxelles) and the two children were born in Ixelles.
The births of the children will have been registered with the local commune authorities in Ixelles and if you can find the registrations they should tell you Amelie's maiden name . I am not sure of the best way to approach this research but others here may be able to help you.
Here is a link to the commune website http://www.ixelles.be/site/index.php
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Though an easier way to find her maiden name would be via the UK records for the younger children!
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Thanks to you both for your replies and suggestions Where abouts would I need to search on the Ixcelles site?
Sorry I am not that familiar with the national achives site would I be looking in the discovery section?
The younger children are Emily born1907 and Frank 1909 both born in East Retford Notts.
Thanks.
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UK records for the younger children
What I mean is that you can apply for a birth certificate which will tell you Amelie's maiden name.
Frank Caudwell's birth was registered in East Retford in the quarter ended December 1909 volume 7b page 9.
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
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You could contact the Ixelles commune administration Vital Statistics Service and ask if it is possible to trace the birth registrations of the children born there, and what the search fee would be.
http://www.ixelles.be/site/67-Etat-civil
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Thank you very much for your suggestions I will try the Ixcelles site first and if I don't get any luck I will get a birth certificate.
Thanks again.
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it’s always worth a try to contact the civil registration, but most of the records for Elsene/Ixelles and Brussels are online (on Familysearch or on the Belgian State Archives)
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1&countryId=1927071
click on : Brabant Civil Registration 1582-1914
click on : Browse through 6.411.594 images
then click on the town / commune of your choice
(date dd/mm/yy)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18261-89379-25?cc=1482191&wc=STV3-3TG:966896201,1489058001
cert n° 209
Marriage 20/02/1892 11 am Brussels
bridegroom : Richard Caudwell, 27/07/1866 Egnanton (Egmanton ?), Nottingham, England, servant, there domiciled, now residing at Brussels avenue d’Auderghem n° 34, before Brussels at Etterbeek
parents Richard Caudwell
Helene Caudwell (formerly Lacey, see marriage annexes image 757)
bride Amelie Cuypers, born 22/05/1874 Brussels, ironer, living at Impasse Saint-Roche n° 12
parents Pierre Cuypers, deceased (04/10/1885 Brussels see marriage annexes image 768)
Elisabeth Brousté, without profession, present an consenting
witnesses Joseph Hanssens, 29 years old, commissioner
Jean Georges Cuypers, 26 years old, tanner, brother of the bride
Martin Cuypers, 22 years old, cigar maker, brother of the bride
Joseph Puttemans, 47 years old, (brewers man/or - servant/or - lad ?)
all living at Brussels
marriage publication : 07/02/18992 at Brussels and Etterbeek
marriage annexes (suporting marriage documents) image 755 up to and including image 768
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-31730-8915-76?cc=1482191&wc=ST24-JWG:966896201,1493434501
birth cert n° 313
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18255-56045-41?cc=1482191&wc=STV9-N3D:966886201,1489063601
Richard Caudwell born 05/04/1896 2 pm at rue de Florence n° 20, Ixelles / Elsene
parents Richard Caudwell, 29 years old, born Egnanton (Egmanton ?), Nottingham, England, coachman
Amelie Cuypers, 22 years old, born Brussels
domicile Egnanton (Egmanton ?), residing rue de Florence n° 20 Ixelles
birth cert n°322
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18360-23113-93?cc=1482191&wc=STVN-RM9:966886201,1489961301
Georges Caudwell born 05/04/1902 4 am, at rue Keyenveld n° 26, Ixelles/Elsene
parents Richard Caudwell, coachman, 35 years old, born Egnanton (Egmanton ?), Nottingham, coachman
Amelie Cuypers, 28 years old, born Brussels, without profession
domicile Egnanton (Egmanton ?), residing rue Keyenveld n° 26, Ixelles
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Now there's a result!
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Wow! Thank you so much for going to all that trouble for me and for finding all that information I asked for.
It really is much appreciated.
This is so much easier when you know what to do.
Anyway thanks again.
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I worked in Maastricht for some years, and my manager was a Cuypers.
For English tongues, it's pronounced "Cow-pers"! ;D
The Flemish/Dutch pronunciation is slightly different, but that's a close approximation!
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So that might mean that the family were in Maastricht if it was the right family .I have no idea if the name is a common one?
Does anyone have any information on her parents Pierre Cuypers and Elizabeth Brouste?
Thanks for all of your help.
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???
That's a huge leap in logic! Some huge assumptions?! And a leap in time?
From 1890's to 2000's; Ixelles to Maastricht!
I also knew of at least 3 other Cuypers during the 16 years I worked in the Netherlands.
There was never a hint that all these people were related?!
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Image 768 mentioned by Leen has information on the parents of Pierre Cuypers: Martin Cuypers and Marie Francoise Priest.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-31730-9286-96?cc=1482191&wc=ST24-JWG:966896201,1493434501
The document also tells us that Pierre Cuypers was born in Brussels and was 52 years, 5 months and 28 days old when he died on 4 October 1885.
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Pierre Cuypers' birth registration, 6 April 1833 (second one down, left hand page) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11667-9187-9?cc=1482191&wc=ST2J-C6D:966896201,967131501
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Sorry for the late reply but been at work.
Thanks again for providing all of this useful information and you have translated it all for me as well, Did it say anything else usefull on the page?
Thanks again.
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the birth registration of Pierre Cuypers ? :
The 6th day of the month April, year 1833 at 10 o’clock in the morning
Birth cert of Pierre Cuijpers, born the same day at 4 o’clock in the morning
Son of Martin Cuijpers, labourer and of Marie Francçoise Priest
spouses, living in this town
According the declaration made to us by Anne Cuijpers, midwife
In the presence of François Van der Sande, labourer, 37 years old and Jean Philippe
De Keijser, innkeeper, 33 years old, all living in this town and who have declared not being able to write
Drawn up according to the law by us, the undersigned, alderman and officer of the civil registration of the town Brussels, which cert has been read aloud
another child of Richard Caudwell and Amelie Cuypers :
birth cert n° 135 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18361-70142-2?cc=1482191&wc=STVV-C68:966896201,1489807701
Elisabeth Caudwell born 09/01/1893 11 pm at Brussels , rue Villa Hermosa n° 18, 1e division
parents Richard Caudwell, 26 years old, born Egmanton, Nottingham, England, servant
Amelie Cuypers, born Brussels
residing rue Villa Hermosa n° 18, 1e division, Brussels ; domicile Egmanton
you can search on the Belgian State Archives : search persons / zoeken naar personen / rechercher des personnes (not complete, still ongoing)
http://www.arch.be/index.php?l=en&m=online-resources&r=search-engines&sr=search-persons
some results : (click on the magnifying glass)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fpd/ marriage of Martinus Cuypers - Maria Francisca Priest
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fpe/ result 1 birth Martinus Cuypers result n° 5 second marriage of Martin Cuypers
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fpf/ result 1 birth Marie Francoise Priest
or browse through the tienjarige tafels / tables decennales / 10 year indexes for births, marriages and deaths, or the yearly index at the back (or front or between ::)) of the birth, marriages, death registers on the Belgian State Archives or on familysearch
http://search.arch.be/en/tips/101-burgerlijke-stand (register first)
http://www.arch.be/index.php?l=en&m=genealogist&r=genealogy-how-to-get-started#6
some links http://www.geneaknowhow.net/digi/resources.html (click below Brussel-Bruxelles on : internet)
transcription census Brussels 1812 http://bruxelles1812.org/
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Firstly I am very sorry about the late reply But I have been away for the weekend away from anywhere with WIFI.
Thanks again for all the information you have sent but I need time to study all the links that you have sent so if I may I would like to study it all and get back to you afterwards.
Thanks again for all your time.
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I have now managed to have a quick look through the links that you sent. There is so much information on there isn't there? They also provide so much more information than on a British equivalent. I did manage to find parents for Martin and Maria Francoise.
I can just make out the french parts but am struggling with the dutch.
Is there an equivelent of the census advailable to look at for Belguim?
Thanks again for all your information.
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You can always ask? There are a number of people on RC who read Dutch/Flemish!
Ranging from native speakers (e.g. Leen) to some Brits who try hard (e.g. Me!).
Just in case you didn't know I should point out the the diphthong "ij" is often represented as "y".
The sounds are similar, but different. And very difficult for an English speaker to get their tongues around! ;D
So, Cuypers can often be found as Cuijpers.
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No, there’s nothing similar like the census / volkstelling / recensement online, but you can find a lot in the civil registration records.
I found two other censuses, originals, which I hadn’t seen yet, however they are pre-1800 (1795 and 1799) and the index is not online. There are 8 books (pdf), one for each section., so a lot of manually searching, page by page, unless you know in which section they lived.
click on http://www.pallas.be/pls/opac/plsp.getplsdoc?lan=N&htdoc=general/opac_avb.htm (City Archive of Brussels )
typ in the box : volkstelling and click on : Zoeken / rechercher (search) or enter.
click on one of the links (the 1795 or the 1799) , now you are on the page where you can download the census, just click on one of the 8 links with : ‘Raadpleegbaar op Internet or when you are on the french version : ‘Consultable sur internet’ . The section 1 of 1795 is not online and section 4 of 1795 gives a ‘Bad Request’ .
as someone said , just ask when you need some help, there are RC who read Dutch/F....., (e.g. KGarrad)
(I have to try hard too, KGarrad, to translate it in steenkolenengels ;D)
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Did you found them in the census ? If not : in the 1795 census ‘volkstelling 1795, sectie 6’ or ‘Rencensement 1796, section 6’
on page 37 of the pdf : Pierre Cuypers and Marie Germain, Michel Cuypers’ parents : rue des Cailles n° 721, with their son Michel (born 1777), daughter Catherine (Anna Catharina, born 1781) and one child under the age of 12, probably Petrus (born in 1784, Petrus the 3rd, as there were two other Petrus’ before him).
on page 32 : there’s a J.P (could be J.B.) Cuypers and his wife C. Janssens, which I guess is the eldest son of Pierre Cuypers and Marie Germain : Joannnes Baptista born 1768 and married in 1788 with Clara Janssens.
the 1799 census ‘volkstelling 1799, Sectie 6’ or ‘Rencensement 1799, Section 6’ :
on page 30 : rue de Schaerbeek n° 3133, Michel Cuypers and his wife Barbe De Coen, with one daughter under the age of 12; probably their first child Jeanne born in 1797, their 2nd child Marie, born in 1798, died when she was 6 days old.
on page 82 : rue de Schaerbeek n° 817, Pierre Kuypers and his wife Marie Germain (mispelled as Gilmain), their daughter Catherine and son Pierre
on page 91 : rue Chemin de Terre n° 913, Jean Baptiste Kuypers and his wife Claire Janssens.
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Martin Cuypers is listed in the Militieregisters / militia records (the registration register)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fvh/
the translation of his registration, but I’m not sure about the military terminology
- Namen en Voornamen - Surnames and given names : Cuijpers Martin
- Namen der ouders, datum van geboorte, geboorteplaats, laatste woonplaats en signalement :
Parents names, date of birth, birth place, last residence and his particulars:
- Vader - father : Michael
- Moeder - mother : Barbara Decoen
- Geboren te - born at : Brussels
- de - on the : 5th July 1804
- Laatst gewoond te - last place of residence : Brussels
- Bij zijn aankomst bij het korps, lang : 1 ellen 7 palmen 5 duimen - strepen
- his height at the time of enlistment in the Corps : 1 metre 7 decimetre 5 centimetre - millimetre
(metric system since 1820 in the Netherlands but they used the old names “el, palm, duim, streep” up to 1870)
- Aangezicht - face : ovaal - oval
- Voorhoofd - forehead : bedekt - covered
- Ogen - eyes : blauw - blue
- Neus - nose : groot - big
- Mond - mouth : klein - small
- Kin - chin : rond - round
- Haar - hair : bruin - brown
- Wenkbrauwen - eyebrows : idem
- Merkbare tekens - distinctive marks : geen - none
- Wanneer en op welke wijze bij het korps gekomen en omschrijving van zijn aangegaan akkoord
When and how enlisted in the corps and nature of engagement :
- Op de 1e mei 1829 ingedeeld als milicien voor de tijd van 5 jaren, zijnde plaatsvervanger voor Duchamps Theodor, loteling van de lichting 1829 uit de provincie Zuid-Brabant, gemeente Brussel onder n° 925
- Enlisted the 1st May 1829 as a milicien for 5 years, substitute for Duchamps Theodor, conscript of the levy of 1829 from the province Zuid-Brabant, municipality Brussels, as number 925
- Van te voren gediend, waar en hoelang op welke wijze daarvan afgegaan - If served before, where and for how long and the reason of discharge /
- Bevordering bij het Korps tot de graad van Officier : soldaat 1e mei 1829 - Promotions at the Corps up to the rank of Officer : soldier 1st May 1829
- Gedane Veldtochten, bekomen wonden, uitstekende daden - Campaigns, sustained injuries, excellent deeds - gallant conduct ? /
- Wanneer en op welke wijze afgegaan : idem als boven - When and the reason of discharge : same as above
- Ingevolge van de opstand in België in 1830 uit de Sterkte geroyeerd en de 1e December 1830 ingedeeld bij de 12e afdeling infanterie.
- As a result of the revolt in Belgium 1830, (removed / debarred ?) from the unit and assigned to the 12th Infantry Regiment on the 1th December 1830.
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Firstly I apologise for my late reply but I have just moved house and therefore had no internet service.
I must thank you so much for all of the information you keep finding for me it is so good of you, and really useful too. It helps so much when you know what to search for and where to find it. It helps even more when you can translate it.
I haven't had time to properly study all of your information yet as you can imagine I am busy unpacking lots of boxes and finding a home for everything.
But I just wanted to send you a reply and say thankyou again.
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Hi,
My great grandmother was also Amelie Cuypers married to Richard Caudwell in Belgium, it looks like we may be related! my grandmothers name was Emily Caudwell the youngest daughter of Amelie, she died at the age of 27 when my mother Jean Stanniland was little more than a year old. Her Grandmother Amelie looked after her until her father remarried.
I would be interested to hear from you
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Hi Are you Susan Morgan?
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Yes, the penny just dropped is that Wendy?
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Yes this is research I was doing on your behalf last summer.
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:) ha ha. Thank you x