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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: sue76 on Tuesday 07 July 15 11:10 BST (UK)

Title: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: sue76 on Tuesday 07 July 15 11:10 BST (UK)
Hello,
I have been doing my tree on and off for a while, and my problem is this, I have gone back a bit further than ever before, how do I know which is my ancestor? all my relations have been Johns and Marys, on my Grt Grandads wedding cert, his Fathers name was Thomas Shannon, according to the 1901 census my Grt Grandad age was 32, which makes his birth at 1869, I have found a Marriage for a Thomas Shannon to a Mary Brougham, a name by the way I have never come across even my personal or professional life, in 1867,does this sound as if it could be? I am really out of my depth,
any advice would be welcome,
Thank You in advance

Susan
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 07 July 15 12:31 BST (UK)
You need to find your Great Granddad's birth to see what his mother's name is, than you can look for the marriage of his parents.
If he was born 1869 or a few years either side he should have a birth cert and/or a baptism.

What is his name and where did you find him on the Census?
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 07 July 15 12:51 BST (UK)
...Fathers name was Thomas Shannon, according to the 1901 census Grt Grandad age was 32,......


Which one is he??   http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fme/
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: sue76 on Tuesday 07 July 15 13:16 BST (UK)
Hi Sinann, thank you for answering,

I haven't been able to find my grt grandads birth, civil or other wise, and his mother is not mentioned on the wedding cert in 1892, I have tried to over reach on this I know but I didn't know where else to go or what to do next,

My Grt Grandad  John Shannon m Mary Ann Reilly, 1901 census has them in Charles St
1911 has them 12, coombe my Grandad is John James, when John married Mary ellen Kelleher they had my Father Thomas and they lived at 9, coombe,

Where do you suggest I go next?  Susan
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 07 July 15 13:21 BST (UK)

...Fathers name was Thomas Shannon, according to the 1901 census Grt Grandad age was 32,......


Which one is he??   http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fme/
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: eadaoin on Tuesday 07 July 15 13:23 BST (UK)
I haven't been able to find my grt grandads birth, civil or other wise, and his mother is not mentioned on the wedding cert in 1892, I have tried to over reach on this I know but I didn't know where else to go or what to do next,

have you looked for the parish register where they were married - this usually has the mother's name.

regards eadaoin
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 07 July 15 13:26 BST (UK)
I presume this is them.... had you posted the actual link it would have helped. Save time having to go looking for them..

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Wood_Quay/Coombe/66288/

Living at Wood Quay, Dublin??
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 07 July 15 13:28 BST (UK)
19 years married in 1911!

R. C.
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 07 July 15 13:30 BST (UK)
Father Thomas and they lived at 9, coombe.... they didn't live at 9 Coombe!!

They were the 9th family enumerated on WOOD QUAY!!
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: hasta on Tuesday 07 July 15 13:34 BST (UK)
That Mary Brougham 1867 marriage was to a Christopher Woods not Thomas Shannon - his was just one of 4 possible grooms names.
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/ea04f30429615
That Thomas Shannon married Catherine Murray.
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/276c2b0429611
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 07 July 15 13:42 BST (UK)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fmf/
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 07 July 15 13:50 BST (UK)
There is a John Shannon born Dublin South 1870 and another Rathdown 1869 both could be possible, have you got either of these certs?

If not I would order them but ask only to be sent either one or both only if the father is Thomas.
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 07 July 15 13:56 BST (UK)
1870
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYYP-3T1
1869
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYYM-PYC

He said on the census he was born Dublin City so I'd be more inclined towards the 1870 one.

Rathdown is a registration district in Dublin.
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 07 July 15 14:00 BST (UK)
Oh forget the 1870 one, looks like his father is John
  http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/f2ccc60285537
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 07 July 15 14:06 BST (UK)
Ah looks like the 1869 one died
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FR56-QMN

This is not going well.
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: dathai on Tuesday 07 July 15 14:13 BST (UK)
possibly that John's birth page 877
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPYM-B6P
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 07 July 15 14:16 BST (UK)
Back to the 1892 marriage so.
Does the Civil cert say where they married?
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: dathai on Tuesday 07 July 15 14:24 BST (UK)
might get it on microfilm tomorrow
http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuses/rcparishmaps/index.cfm?fuseaction=showlikerecords&parish=Dublin&citycounty=Dublin%20city
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 07 July 15 14:30 BST (UK)
might get it on microfilm tomorrow
http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuses/rcparishmaps/index.cfm?fuseaction=showlikerecords&parish=Dublin&citycounty=Dublin%20city
Exactly what I was thinking.
It should say on the cert where the marriage took place shouldn't it?
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 07 July 15 14:32 BST (UK)
It would certainly help if FACTS were posted!!!
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 07 July 15 16:18 BST (UK)
Hi Susan

What was Thomas' occupation on his son John's marriage cert ?

Did the marriage cert state whether Thomas was dead ?

Tara
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 07 July 15 16:21 BST (UK)
Baptism of daughter Mary to John Shannon & Mary Anne Reilly !

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/c380740131836

Tara
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 07 July 15 16:24 BST (UK)
Just a question, as you sound unsure of all this ~

Are you SURE that you are working with the correct marriage cert ?

Do you have a birth cert for your Grandad John James Shannon confirming that his Mum's maiden name was Reilly ~ if you have this cert does it tie in correctly with your family.

Tara
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: hasta on Tuesday 07 July 15 16:27 BST (UK)
John Shannon seems to have died 1916 at the workhouse. He is buried in Glasnevin (address 12 Coombe gives a positive) The death record gives his birth year as 1867, so the only possible corresponding birth I can see is:
John Shannon
1866
Dublin South
Vol: 12
Pg: 649

The grave in Glasnevin is an extended one, so if you haven't gotten that record yet it would be worth getting the lot to see if parents are there as well.
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 07 July 15 16:29 BST (UK)
I can see a 1905 prison record for a Mary Shannon living at 12 Coombe, husband John Shannon,  so looks like a good match.

It says that she was born at Ardee Street.

Tara
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 07 July 15 16:33 BST (UK)
To add to Hasta's great find there is a 1916 Workhouse record for Mary Shannon of 12, Coombe where she asks for her husband John's age to be corrected to 49 years old.

Tara
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 07 July 15 16:36 BST (UK)
HUM

We could now see why there is an issue.

In 1899 there is a prison record for a John Shannon living at 8 Charles Street which matches the 1901 Census.

Anyway, the prison record states that he was born in TIPPERARY !

Tara
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 07 July 15 16:38 BST (UK)
So,

on the same street ie Charles Street, in 1901, is a Patrick Shannon, birthplace Tipperary.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Inns_Quay/Charles_Street/1278981/

First son called Thomas.

Good possible brother to John !

Tara
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 07 July 15 16:54 BST (UK)
1914 Electoral Roll John Shannon is listed at 12 Coombe

1915 Electoral Roll John Shannon is listed at 12 Coombe

Tara
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 07 July 15 17:02 BST (UK)
1899 there is a 1 Year Old Thomas Shannon buried in Glasnevin.

Address 8 Charles Street ~ match to the 1901 Census.

Tara
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 07 July 15 17:10 BST (UK)
This is the nearest that I am getting to a John born to a Thomas in Tipperary

BUT

The surname is down as Shanahan  ???

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPTP-JHN

Tara
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 07 July 15 17:13 BST (UK)
Littleton (just incase it works out)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Littleton,_County_Tipperary

Tara
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 07 July 15 17:34 BST (UK)
Re Patrick Shannon as the possible brother of John Shannon

This is POSSIBLY his marriage ~ there is an Elizabeth Dowling  on the same page !

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYHR-TY4

Tara
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 07 July 15 17:42 BST (UK)
Patrick Shannon also has a son buried in Glasnevin.

Michael Shannon Born 1896 Died 1901.

Address 29 Charles Street ~ Same address as the 1901 Census !

Tara

Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 07 July 15 17:44 BST (UK)
John Shannon had a daughter called Sarah Shannon whom is buried in Glasnevin.

Born 1902 Died 1904.

Address 12 Coombe ~ match to 1911 Census.

Tara
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 07 July 15 17:57 BST (UK)
1914 Mary Shannon's address was 12 Coombe when she was taken into the workhouse hospital.

Tara
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 07 July 15 18:23 BST (UK)
Hi Susan

As per PM, yes the workhouse hospital was where St. James' hospital is now !

Tara
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 07 July 15 19:57 BST (UK)
As per PM

Thomas was a labourer ~ boy do I dread that word as there are never any leads that way !

John lived at Watling Street in 1892

Mary lived at Winetavern Street and father was called Eugene, also a labourer.

I shall see can I get any leads with John's 1892 address.

BTW Have you worked on Eugene Reilly yet ?

Tara
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: dathai on Tuesday 07 July 15 20:19 BST (UK)
did you get the witnesses names.
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 07 July 15 20:23 BST (UK)
Good Call Dathai ~

Susan can you give us the names of the witness' on John and Mary's marriage cert please !

Tara
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: sue76 on Tuesday 07 July 15 21:16 BST (UK)
Hi  Dathai,

witnesses were  John Murphy and Mary Marcella Dowling

Susan,
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 07 July 15 21:24 BST (UK)
GRRRR

Dowling & Murphy ~ not great leads to be gotten that way  :'(

Tara
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 07 July 15 21:26 BST (UK)
I think the best, well the first thing for you to do is, tomorrow, when the church records go online ~

You need to go to St. Audeon's records and trawl through them until you find John & Mary's marriage ~ you have the date so that's a great start.

See is there anything else to be gotten from the actual register.

Sometimes extra info is on the church register that isn't on the civil cert.

Best Of Luck !

Tara
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: sue76 on Wednesday 08 July 15 07:45 BST (UK)
A BIG THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO CAME ON TO MY PAGE YESTERDAY,

YOU ALL ADVANCED MY SEARCH GREATLY,

EVERY TIME I COME ON FOR VARIOUS HELP, YOU ALL GO ABOVE AND BEYOND,

IT'S A GREAT SITE

SUSAN
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: dathai on Wednesday 08 July 15 10:27 BST (UK)
Hi Sue
         just a few little notes to try and help you out but possibly bad new's as well if you look at the microfilm cut off dates on the NLI register it seems St Audeons cuts off for both baptisms and marriages in 1880 so not going to be much help to you there.
http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuses/rcparishmaps/index.cfm?fuseaction=showlikerecords&parish=Dublin&citycounty=Dublin%20city

Tara's reply 23 yesterday possible birth for John Shannon 1866 page 649
is most likely this man birthplace place shown as 649
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F52B-XVP

Tara's reply 29 yesterday Thomas Shannon
birth
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FBJ4-92H
death
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FTDX-HZD

Tara's reply 34 yesterday Sarah Shannon
birth
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FBKW-GWP
death
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FTFV-RMP

hope this will help you.
Dathai
Title: Re: advice needed with the Shannon Family
Post by: Aaron John Wynne on Saturday 11 December 21 00:36 GMT (UK)
Hi all, I stumbled across this forum when researching my family history and my great Uncle Martin Shannon. An IRA member who served in Harcourt Street during 1916.

My Grandfather John Shannon received my Great Uncles Pension when he passed. I know this from Military records. My family reside within the Dublin 8 area. My own primary family and grandfather was based on James St.

I would be keen to engage with yourself Susan.

Regards, Aaron.