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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Devon => England => Devon Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Shadrach on Tuesday 07 July 15 09:26 BST (UK)
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Help needed to find Samuel Edward Fowden in the 1911 census. He was born 1872 in Ipplepen Devon and was married to Adelina Heysett.
His wife Adelina and young son Frederick are found in the Newton Abbott workhouse but no sign of Samuel. I've tried many different ways of spelling the surname with no luck, perhaps someone else can find him please and if possible a death record for him.
shadrach
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We aren't allowed to ask for 1911 English census lookups but there are tips here which might help you-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=492718.0
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1901 shows children
Lula E 1
Samuel E 1 month
Was Frederick a later child? Do you know where these two children were?
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1901 shows children
Lula E 1
Samuel E 1 month
Was Frederick a later child? Do you know where these two children were?
Death of Samuel Edward aged 1, 4q 1902, Newton Abbott 5b, 60
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There is a newspaper article of 7 July 1909 in which Samuel Edward Fowden, an inmate of Newton Abbott Workhouse, was charged with neglecting to maintain his wife and family. They had been frequent inmates of the workhouse.
The case was dismissed but it was impressed on the defendant that he must work and maintain his family.
(Not that that helps find him in later life ::) )
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Many thanks to everyone,
Yes there were older siblings and these children were in one of the Scattered Homes for girls in Newton Abbott.
I did see the newspaper article about Samuel and after finding Adelina in the workhouse in 1911
I thought Samuel would be there too. We know Samuel hadn't died by 1911 as he fathered
other children.
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You have had lots of replies while I have been looking.
I found a death for Adelina at Exeter St Thomas in 1935, aged 63, so the mother.
A marriage for Lulu Edith/Lula, in 1935 and baptisms in Dartmouth St Saviours in 1904.
But I can't find Samuel in 1911.
PM me if you want more details about any of above.
Cheers, Judy.
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PM me if you want more details about any of above.
Hi Mowsehowse,
You are better to post the information on the thread as then everyone can follow and add to the research ;)
Regards
Sarah
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Help needed to find Samuel Edward Fowden in the 1911 census.
Have you tried surname variants Fawdon/Foden ???
Annie
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We know Samuel hadn't died by 1911 as he fathered
other children.
When and with whom?
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We know Samuel hadn't died by 1911 as he fathered
other children.
When and with whom?
There is a Victor Fowden, mother's maiden name Heysett born 1st quarter 1914, Newton Abbott 5b 193.
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You may already have this and probably won't help but Adelina and Lulu Edith are on Farnham Surrey electoral register in 1933 - any links with Surrey - I wonder why they were there?
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Wonder if this is Samuel with a variation of his second name ?
Deaths Mar 1944
Foden Edwin 83 Bideford 5b 627
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Thanks you everyone, it's great to have help.
Yes, Samuel was the father of the other children, he is certainly hard to find even using other variations of his surname, it's almost as if he didn't want to be found.
I hadn't seen Adelina and Lulu on the 1933 electoral register in Surrey, not sure why they were there but it could have something to do with Lulu marrying in 1935 in Easthampstead Berkshire which I think is near the border of Surrey. Adelina's death in 1935 must mean she moved back to Devon after 1933. Would her death certificate indicate whether she was a widow?
Can you tell me Milliepede whether Samuel is on any of the electoral registers?
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I will check the Surrey registers again as Lulu at least appeared for several years in the 1930's.
No Samuel with them not surprisingly.
Was going to suggest the death certificate for Adelina as it should say widow of Samuel if he had already died.
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Surry registers abode Winton Farnham
Lulu Edith appears in 1931 1932 1933
Edith Lulu in 1934 1935
Adelina appears with her in 1932 1933 only
In 1934 1935 abode Kelston Farnham
There's a Vera Dowling and Charles Howard Hawes also at Kelston but don't know if Kelston is a house address or an area
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I agree, Adelina's death certificate is worth a try.
Interesting Adelina was with Lulu in Surrey, not surprising as Lulu was her eldest daughter.
And I wonder if Vera Dowling could be her sister Vera Fowden, a misspelling? No idea about Charles Howard Hawes, a Google search seems to point to him being a military man and we know from Lulu's wedding photo that her husband was in uniform so perhaps they were friends. Was their address in Farnham near a military base? And would Lulu's marriage certificate give an indication if her father was deceased or just his occupation?
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In 1930 Farnham there's a marriage Vera Fowden to Frank A Dowling or Ash-Dowling so there we go :D
Farnham does ring a bell for military but I'm not familiar with the area.
Marriage for Lulu should name father and occupation but sometimes it says deceased sometimes not (even if they were) so bit hit and miss.
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Yes, Farnham less than 4 miles from Aldershot ('Home of the British Army') and prob only 10 miles max from Sandhurst RMC et al ...
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Vera A Dowling is in Kelston Farnham as is Charles H Hawes as late as 1945.
I wonder if her husband was in the military too. Maybe Charles is Samuel in disguise!
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Charles is a military man indeed. Son of William Hawes Major General Indian Forces.
William and Charles born East Indies per 1891 census.
Charles a cadet at Sandhurst age 19 in 1891.
With Vera throughout the 1930's so I wonder where her husband was, maybe he died or was in service abroad.
We digress, this isn't helping find Samuel is it :-\
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Found another one tho name slightly different in Fulham this time 1930
Angeline Vera Fowden
Lulu Edith Fowden
Oh and guess who is listed with them - Charles Howard Hawes (Col)
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On the image of Vera's wedding ( on Surrey marriages on Ancestry) it says Frank Ash Dowling is a Sailor, and one of the witnesses is a Charles Howard Hawes
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Had a thought - who exactly is Vera Fowden - Dowling?
Was she Samuel's sister?
Sounds daft but Adelina has the name Vera too so just wondering how they are related or if they are the same lady!
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She's the daughter of Adelina and Samuel
Births Mar 1904
Fowden Adeline Vera Totnes 5b 134
Vera Adeline Dowling born 15 Nov 1903 died July 1997 West Surrey RD
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This may not be finding Samuel but it's wonderful to have all the new details about Lulu and Vera, thank you all and for the location of Aldershot.
Finding Vera's married name is very helpful, her death date in 1997 is also interesting as Lulu died the same year and I found them both on the Find a will Gov.UK
Vera was only ever referred to as Vera so we had no idea she had another Christian name. Charles Howard Hawes is certainly a prominent figure in their lives, he would have been, correct me if I'm wrong, a good 30 years older than either Lulu or Vera. Maybe Lulu and Vera worked for him? I wonder too where her husband was.
Thank to all your help, it's great to have more to add to a family history for Vera and Lulu. Samuel though remains a mystery!
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She's the daughter of Adelina and Samuel
Births Mar 1904: Fowden Adeline Vera Totnes 5b 134
You can see the page of the BAPTISM register at Dartmouth St Saviours on findmypast. Both daughters were Bap on 25th March 1904, but there is a note of their birthdates in the left hand margin.
Lulu Edith , born 23 July 1899 and Adelina Vera born 15 Nov. 1903.
Parents living at Foss Street. Father a labourer.
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Thanks for clarifying I had got myself confused as to the relationships :-[
Are there any other siblings we could look for, their marriages etc that might show father deceased?
There was Victor I believe. Possible marriage in 1944 death in 1947 both Newton Abbot.
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Was Cecil born 1905 one of theirs only he is with Lulu and Vera as a school inmate.
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Was Cecil born 1905 one of theirs only he is with Lulu and Vera as a school inmate.
YES he was!! Well spotted. By now they are in Newton Abbot where Samuel Edward is a porter to the GWR. The family are living at 6 Court, Wolborough Street. Cecil was born 23 Feb 1905 and Baptised at St Leonard's , Wolborough Parish, on 29 Sept 1906.
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Yes, Cecil was one of theirs and is with Lulu and Vera in 1911.
There other son Frederick is with his mother in 1911 so as far as I know the children are
Lulu, Samuel, Vera, Cecil, Frederick and Victor.
Good to have their 1906 address and to know where Samuel was employed, at least he had a job in 1906. How did you discover the address mowsehowse?
Finding him in 1911 seems a lost cause and I'm puzzled why we can't find a death record, any clues?
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Baptism Register Shadrach.
Is it possible Samuel left the country?
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Perhaps he was out on the streets - literally - in 1911 and never got counted but that doesn't explain why we haven't found a death for him :-\
Which child was born closest to 1911? He must have been in the area to have fathered more.
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There are two Frederick Charles births in Newton Abbot - one Jun 1907 one Mar 1909.
Plus a death for one in Mar 1908.
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Looking generally on family search there are a few in Devon for Samuel Fawden a spelling I hadn't thought of trying.
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The 1909 birth seems to be the one closest to 1911 and then Victor was born in 1914 -Samuel must have been around somewhere. He was either on the streets or could he have found work in the countryside and missed out on the count?
It's possible he went overseas, would Adelina's death certificate tell us if she was a widow when she died?
Samuel Fawden is very close, the surname has been mangled worse than this! He was born in 1872, do any of the ages at death fit?
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Would make him pretty old but death in 1967 Samuel Fawden Copplestone Devon *
Samuel T Foden born 22 Dec 1874 England death in Los Angeles 24 Jul 1968.
He seems to be Samuel Thomas.
Samuel Foden born abt 1874 death 1933 Southwark London age 59
* that one is probably the Samuel Fawden in Copplestone 1911 and he's 28 then.
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Who were the parents of Samuel?
There's a Sam Fudin death 1940 Bronx New York
age 70
marital status unknown
father Charles
mother Rose
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Apologies I'm rattling on but have we covered this one in the military?
Samuel E Fowden Pioneer Royal Engineers
Not much detail just on the WW1 medal rolls index
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Samuel's parents were Grace and George, several of those deaths recorded could have been Samuel but without a clear link to either Devon or his parents or his wife it's hard to tell.
I did see the Medal Roll record and wondered about it because the name is not a common one and it lists both names. But I though it unlikely it was him as he would have been over 40 at the start of the WW1 as well as a married man with children. Do you think there would be any more information on the full record and if not how would we find out the age of this man?
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Not too knowledgeable about military stuff but it lists his regimental number 226835 and
W.R.20895 so maybe there are Royal Engineer sites that would reveal more I really don't know but hopefully someone else will have more experience in that area.
Failing that finding another Samuel E Fowden to "pin" those medals on!
Just thought there's a Forces War Records site would he be on there? That might give an age if nothing else.
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Thanks again for your great help. Samuel E Fowden on the medal index card is such a close match, the best lead yet, but here again it seems he doesn't want to be found. There is no sign of him on the Forces War Records and we may have come to another dead end as I understand many of the WW1 service records were destroyed during WW2.
Ancestry.com has some WW1 service records, the closest is a Samuel Foden.
The Royal Pioneer Corps. have a site with loads of information relating to the Pioneers and I'm hopefully of finding more by going down this road.
http://www.royalpioneercorps.co.uk/rpc/history_main1.htm
Keep your fingers crossed!
Many thanks
Shadrach
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Good luck and do let us know if you find anything :)