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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Monmouthshire => Topic started by: Lydart on Wednesday 01 July 15 20:25 BST (UK)
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This will get searchers going !
Facts: in Penallt churchyard there is a box type tomb, bearing the following inscription on one of the side panels - "Thomas Chadwell of this parish, died Feb 1917, aged 68 years" (therefore born around 1849) It is very clear and easy to read, so no error on my part.
Firstly, weren't box type tombs late 18th century/ 19th century ?
Secondly, I have searched Free BMD, the relevant censuses up to 1911, the entire original parish records - (baptisms, marriages and burials) from about 1790 to the 1920's and he just doesn't exist, and seemingly, he doesn't have any relatives !
Over to you !!
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Just marking this as I've been looking for Lydart and like her have come up with nothing! No, deaths anywhere in the country.
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I've been looking with Lydart and Jan too but can't find much. I see there is a Will in the NAs: 'Will of James Chadwell, Joiner, of Pen-Allt, Monmouthshire' dated 1 July 1780 which at least gives an indication of Chadwells in Penallt.
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That's interesting; thank you for that. I'll check again the burials to see if I can find him ....
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Found James Chadwell in the burial register. Funeral 9th December 1779. No other info. When I've got time, I'll carefully go more carefully through all the registers to see if I can find any other Chadwells.
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There is also a marriage: Sarah Chadwell m. Grooms 28 March 1799, Penallt. I suppose the Will of James Chadwell (above) might give a clue about family members, but of course it costs to view.
I wonder if the inscription on the tomb is by way of a monument, rather than an indication that he is buried in the tomb. But tis strange indeed that no record of his existence can be found other than this inscription. What a puzzle!
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If it were a family member, I'd certainly pay to see it !
But as you suggest, he may well not be inside the grave .... BUT .... where was he before death ? Was he married ? Indeed, did he ever exist ! There is NO record of him on any UK census.
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That is the strangest thing, the fact that there is no death registration for the first quarter 1917 anywhere in the country. He could get away with no birth registration and if he didn't marry no marriage, but there must be a death registration before a burial. The fact that it says "Of this Parish" and is a tomb rather than just a headstone, makes you think he was more important than an Ag Lab.
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The box tomb is obviously older than 1917. I first decided to investigate him, to try and find family/others who are inscribed on the other face of the tomb, but very worn. I decided if I could find him, then I could trace his family through the records and use that info to try and decipher the worn lettering on the other side.
This is only the second grave I have looked at in the churchyard; we are doing a survey and recording before headstones crumble away .... goodness know how many more mysteries we will uncover !
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In response to Greensleeves, the marriage she mentions, in our parish registers, is of William ROSSER to Sarah Chadwell, 28th March 1799. Then there is a baptism of 'issue !' on 25th December 1800 of William, child of William and Sarah Rosser.
AND another of .... wait for it .... Thomas Chadwell Rosser baptised 9th December 1804 !!
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Reading that information, Lydart, I've just had an idea. Could it be that it isn't a Chadwell tomb, but a Rosser family one and he has just been inscribed using his forenames? He obviously isn't the one born 1804, but could he be his son?
Having said that, there still isn't a death that fits!
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Infuriating, isn't it !
But .... don't forget that names in Wales often have a P in front of the surname, short for 'ap' = 'son of', so for e.g. Robert becomes Probert, and Rosser becomes Prosser ....
Having said that, there still isn't a death in 1917 I can find for a Thomas Prosser, or a Chadwell Prosser ... maybe Groom can think around this !!
William and Sarah Rosser went on to have several more children, which I'll list shortly for sake of completeness.
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Children of William and Sarah (nee Chadwell) Rosser:
25/12/1800 William Rosser
26/12/1802 Ann Rosser
9/12/1804 Thomas Chadwell Rosser
11/1/1807 James Rosser
30/7/1809 Henry Rosser
Interesting that only the second born son had a second name added ..... I wonder why ?
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William Rosser is in Penallt in 1861 - a farmer of 103 acres. He has a wife Harriet and several children and grandchildren living with him.
RG9; Piece: 3989; Folio: 98; Page: 5
According to a tree on Ancestry he died 23rd Nov 1863 aged 63 in Penallt. It might be worth seeing if you can find him in the Parish records and see if it says where he is buried in case it is the same family.
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According to an online tree, Sarah Chadwell was born 1768 in Penallt daughter of THOMAS CHADWELL and Elizabeth. Unfortunately they don't have anything more for Thomas Chadwell Rosser apart from his birth.
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the NLW has a will for Thomas Chadwell of Penallt. It was written in 1792 & he died in 1797. A James Chadwell appeared at Llandaff to swear the signature was that of Thomas. Sarah was left the Padox, orchard & half the Padox Wood. Thomas was a farmer and had also owned a cider mill which the eldest son inherited.
http://cat.llgc.org.uk/cgi-bin/gw/chameleon?skin=profeb&lng=en
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That's interesting Osprey as I found a burial of a Thomas Chadwell 22nd February 1797 and possibly his wife Elizabeth 11th March 1815
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCT8-ZFB
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCT8-F16
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the indexing of the Wales parish records on FindMyPast is not to be relied on. Elizabeth's burial is indexed as Bishton, but if you look at the image it's Penallt. The one with Thomas' burial is an older style register with no parish name at top of the page. I've looked back a couple of pages and the top hasn't been scanned on the page that might have parish name.
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Thanks, that is what threw me, I thought it was Penallt, but then as you say FindMyPast had it as Bishton.
It is a bit of a coincidence that the Thomas Chadwell who died in 1797 died in February as did the Thomas who died in 1917 Lydart said the date is quite clear on the tomb, otherwise I would have suggested, given the style of tomb, that it is that of the earlier one.
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I'll have to go up to the church and take another photo of the whole thing .... its difficult to get light on the name and not glare on the date part ... watch this space !
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Thomas Chadwell Rosser 1804 - 1832 died in Port Kingston, Jamaica whilst in the Royal Navy. There is a plaque commemorating him in the Altar area of Penallt Church. The name Chadwell is also identified as Shadwell in early Parish Records.
There is also part of a headstone/plaque of William Rosser 1741 - 1778 in the porch to the church. The inscription reads (inscription difficult to read), "Hear this praye _____ ______ of William Rosser the parish of Cwmcarvan who died 15 Oct 1778 aged 38 years. Thet that a righteous life ha..."
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::) lesson learned .... remove the ivy growing over an inscription ::) and in this case, his death was Feb 19 17(96) the ivy covering the 96 (and it has to be said, the 19 and 17 almost touching, so an easy but stupid mistake to make !
I've since found out a lot more about him; he was a wealthy man (hence the extravagant box tomb) and owned much land locally.
Thank you everyone for suggestions and info.
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Brilliant - so the death/burial I found for you right at the beginning was right! ;D ;D ;D Glad that's been solved.