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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: sage on Wednesday 01 July 15 07:30 BST (UK)
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Hi All,
I have a shipping manifest for 'Athenia' departing Glasgow 29 Aug 1916 with Isabella Chalmers aged 45 and 3 daughters, Christina aged 11, Agnes aged 9 and Mary aged 7. Her destination was Sault Ste Marie and she was to join her sons, George and Robt Chalmers and possibly a daughter Isabella. There is a record of their arrival but its very difficult to read.
My question is what happened to them all after their arrival? I have already done some work on son George who lived and died in Sault Ste Marie.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=722348.0
I found the son Robt arriving Quebec 18 Sep 1912 on board 'Cassandra' also bound for Sault Ste Marie but I don't know what happened to him either. George and his wife Elizabeth arrived in November of the same year.
A possible complication is that the 3 daughters travelling with Isabella Chalmers (nee Paterson) were born to her second husband, Matthew Roy. After he died in 1910 she and the children appear on the 1911 Scottish census as Roy but she seems to have reverted to Chalmers (her first husband's name) thereafter.
Is it possible to find them on a Canadian census? They all had a rough start back in Scotland and I wondered if life got any better for them in Canada.
Regards, Sage.
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Just thought to check the C'wlth War Graves records and located Robt Chalmers died 08 Aug 1918 aged 24, Canadian Machine Gun Corps 4th Btn.
NOK Mrs Isabella Roy of 2007 Brush St, Detroit, Michigan
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1916 and 1921 canadian census appear on anc.... i had a bit of a look at 1916.....
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Hi again Sage Isabella Christine and Mary border crossings from Canada to USA 1920 then 1922
Mary Roy b 1908 Scotland married 20/2/1924 Detroit Michigan age 16 years
Father Mathew mother Isabella Patterson
Spouse Nicholas Mirotsos age 26 b Greece
This marriage did not last long the couple were divorced 25/1/1929
Extreme Cruelty
Isabella was using the name Roy on the border crossings
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Marriage for Christina Roy transcribed as Ray b Scotland age 16 father Mathew mother Isabella Patterson
Spouse Thomas Aniss age 26 b Greece 13/2/1922 Detroit Michigan
Second marriage 29/7/1944 Detroit Wayne
Christina Anis
............Roy b 1906 Scotland age 38 father Mathew mother Isabella Patterson
Spouse Franklin G Johnson age 52
You will probably find some records on family search
Need to go out now I'm sure Shelley or Sandra will be along to help
Rosie
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Hi Fastfusion...thanks for that. I don't have an ancestry subscription at the moment but if anyone finds anything of note I can follow up on it at a later date.
Rosie thanks for your help...interesting that both girls took up with Greek men! So sad for Mary that she was mistreated...she deserved better after such a rough start back in Scotland. :'(
I will see if I can find anything else on familysearch. Thanks so much.
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Hi,
There is a marriage in Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario May 31, 1919.
Isabella Roy age 18, b. Scotland, housekeeper, parents Matthew Roy and Isabella Patterson
to
Mike Crullo age 23, b. Russia, mechanic, parents Frederick Crullo and Eve Kanoratenko
Witnesses Tom Tereschuk and Agnes Hodgson both of Sault St. Marie, Ontario
Cheers,
DB
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Hi,
1930 census Detroit, Michigan
Crullo, Michael F. age 34, b. Russia, shipping clerk, injectors
Crullo, Isabelle, age 29, b. Scotland
Crullo, Gloria, age 10, b. Michigan
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X796-J9D
Cheers,
DB
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Hi,
There is a marriage in Detroit, Michigan, September 21, 1921
Agnes Roy, age 18, b. Scotland, factory worker, parents Mathew Roy and Isabel Patterson
to
Harry Metros, age 26, b. Greece, cook, parents George Metros and Katherine Manos
Witnesses Isabella Crullo and James G. Tunales both of Detroit.
Cheers,
DB
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There is a death for Isabella Crullo birth date 11/2/1901 died 25/12/1972 Lincoln Park Wayne Michigan
Christina died in a car accident 1958 Huron Michigan
Agnes Roy age 18 married Harry Metros 1921
Second marriage Agnes Metros/Roy married 7/7/1934
Pincoming Bay Michigan
Spouse Philip E Helmer
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Hi,
1930 census Detroit Michigan,
Metros, Agnes, lodger, age 26, b. Scotland, married, imm. yr. 1919, laborer tobacco factory.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7MG-12N
There is a divorce record for Agnes Metros/Harry Metros June 30, 1933, extreme cruelty :(
Cheers,
DB
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There is a divorce record for Agnes Metros/Harry Metros June 30, 1933, extreme cruelty :(
Cheers,
DB
They seemed to have picked all the wrong men :(
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Yikes, for sure the wrong men. :(
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Hi,
1940 Census Pinconning Township, Michigan. You can see the orginal census.
Helmer, Philip
Helmer, Agnes
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K42C-YXM
Cheers,
DB
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Hi,
From your previous post on son George, Sandra mentioned that WW1 Canadian service
files are in the process of being digitized. Robert's is there, it is slow to load.
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/first-world-war-1914-1918-cef/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=94414
Cheers,
DB
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Well done guys - sorry I couldn't help earlier, I was chasing sheep :-\
Gloria Roberta Crullo married Robert Leslie Hoey 16 August 1940 Detroit, Wayne, Michigan but unfortunately divorced - decree date 6 Oct 1947 Wayne Michigan.
Sandra
Added Anc tree shows she died Lincoln Park Michigan Feb 1965. (No source given)
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Sheep, ??? I thought it was goats, or at least that's what Maureen told me. ;D
I think a holiday for the Helmer family.
There is a passenger list from Honolulu, Hawaii to San Francisco October 21, 1941 on the
ship "Lurline"
Helmer, Philip, age 41
Helmer, Agnes, age 38
Cheers,
DB
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Philip E Helmer - born 24 March 1900 in Pinconning, Bay, Michigan, passed away 21 Aug 1954 in Pinconning, Bay, Michigan.
Sandra
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Hi All
Thank you so much for all your fabulous input. I found the 1930 & 1940 censuses for Thos Annis and 'Christiana' and they had a daug according to the 1930 census but she's not present on the 1940 census. Her name is recorded in 1930 as Kathaline Annis aged 7, birthplace New York.
Can anyone see what became of this child?
And I am curious to know where Mama Isabella Roy (nee Paterson) is throughout all these mismatched marriages? :'(
Thanks again everyone and I'll enjoy checking this all out. :)
Sage.
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Hi,
You're welcome :)
A possible, there is a death for Agnes Helmer March 25, 1942 Detroit, Michigan, age 38,
b. Scotland, parents Matthew Ray and Isabella McEwen. So, Mama Patterson may have
remarried.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KFWC-5L3
Cheers,
DB
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Thanks DB,
Another complication with the name McEwan! Having researched the family back in Scotland I'm pretty certain the name McEwan has cropped up here because Isabella was born illegitimate to her mother, Agnes Paterson and Agnes then spent her life with George McEwan.
The more we find about this family the sadder it becomes. :'(
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Just wondering if anyone can pinpoint Isabella Roy (nee Paterson, sometimes McEwan!) in 1920 U.S. or 1921 Canada census. I know she was in Detroit as early as 1918 per the death of her son Robt Chalmers in WWI but I haven't pinpointed her on a census after her arrival in Sault Ste Marie in Aug 1916 which would have been too late for the census of that year.
Rosie said she was found in border crossings from Canada to the U.S. in 1920 and 1922 and I wondered if perhaps she was on the 1921 Canadian census taken 1st June.
I haven't found her in the U.S. in 1920 or 1930 and given the daughters married so very young I'm beginning to think that maybe Isabella died quite young and the daughters had to fend for themselves. If anyone can give me a lead it would be very much appreciated.
With thanks, Sage
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Hi Sage,
Mama Patterson is elusive and so is Kathaline Annis. ???
The 1916 Canadian census was only for Western Canada (Alberta, Manitoba, Saskatchewan).
On her border crossing July 18, 1922 that rosie found, she was asked ever in the USA
before, yes, between April 1921 to July 9, 1922. I think she slipped through the cracks, too early
for the 1921 Canadian census, and too late for the 1920 USA census.
Cheers,
DB
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Yes she seems to be hiding well :D
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Hi Sage,
I think that the 1930 census for the Crullo's from family search isn't correct. Looking at the
original census there is another family living at the same address, transcribed as Lapreese,
but looks like Lapresse to me.
Lapreese, Eugene, age 28, b. Massachusetts, proprietor restaurant
Lapreese, Mary, age 21, b. Massachusetts
Lapreese, Eugene, age 8 months, b. Michigan
http://www.mocavo.ca/1930-United-States-Census/126213/004951281/636#row-7
There is a death of Mary Lapreese, December 6, 1930 in Detroit Michigan, age 21 :(
parents Isabelle McEwan and Mathew Roy.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KF4C-LLG
Cheers,
DB
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Most definitely rosie, but now with the second reference to McEwan, perhaps a remarriage
or perhaps she decided to revert back to McEwan. ???
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Hi Sage,
1940 USA census Detroit, Michigan, transcribed as Crulla
Crulla, Michael, age 43, b. New York, mechanic, auto garage
Crulla, Isabella, age 44, b. Scotland
Laprysse, Eugene, age 10, son, b. Michigan
McGlynn, Gloria, age 20, daughter, b. Michigan, single, waitress, confectionary
McGlynn, M. (may be still living), grandson, infant, b. Scotland ???
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KHMJ-SFT
Cheers,
DB
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Hi Sage,
From Find A Grave, a possible for Eugene R. Lapreese b. 1929 Detroit, d. 1954 Korea,
Second Lieut. US Marine Corps.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=89855068&ref=acom
Cheers,
DB
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Thanks Rosie and Dbreez,
I've been unravelling that information in the past few days...Mary Roy, youngest daughter of Isabella teamed with Eugene Lapreese and had Eugene jnr per the 1930 census only to die in December of the same year. Her sister, Isabella Crullo and husband, Mike raised Eugene and he was later killed in a fighter plane in 1954.
In the meantime Isabella's daughter, Gloria Crullo had a baby McGlynn before she married Robt Hoey whom she divorced. Then she married Franklin Johnson jnr (son of Franklin Johnson Snr and former wife) before he married Christina Roy and they were both killed in a car accident.
This family experienced some terrible heartbreak. :'(
I think the use of the name McEwan for Isabella snr is a mistake used once and then perpetuated thereafter. We have pinpointed her in 1922 and then not found her in the U.S. in 1930...I hope something comes to light eventually. :)
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Hi sage do you have an exact date of birth for Isabella Patterson and place she was born on one of the crossing it says New Mains ? ....I think with all these different surnames she is not making it easy for us ???
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Hi Rosie,
I don't have an actual date for Isabella Paterson but I can get some credits on the weekend and grab that certificate. She's aged 1 born Holytown in 1871 and aged 11 born Wishaw in 1881. In 1911 it says Cambusnethan. Newmains is in the vicinity of the last two and all her children are born in the same area. I'll get back to you on the weekend with more detail. :)
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Hi Rosie,
I have downloaded the birth cert of Isabella Paterson:
Born 03 December 1869 (illegitimate) at 58 Clydesdale Rows, Nethertown
Mother Agnes Paterson (Tambourer)
Signed by Agnes Paterson (mother)
The Parish is Cambusnethan
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Hi Sage thought she might have been on the USA Social Security index if we had her birth date but no luck ???
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Thanks Rosie but I have a feeling she died much earlier than that. I've been looking at the places family members died and checking out the cemeteries in those locations. An online tree has Michael Crullo buried at Rock Falls Cemetery and then his wife Isabella died in Lincoln Park, MI. Its a bit like looking for a needle in a haystack but I'll keep searching.
Thanks again...everyone has been so helpful. :)
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Yes I tried to trace her with some of the family but no luck searched deaths in Canada also but nothing I'm afraid ???
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Hi Heather, I read a thread of yours in regard to Malcolm McNeil and Catherine Ferguson. They are my Great Great Great Grandparents and Malcolm McNeil and Jeanie Reid are my Great Great Grandparents. I read through your posts and noticed you have a PDF file of family history. I would be very interested in seeing it, I’m in Australia and appreciate any help in tracing my Scottish ancestry.
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Hi Heather, I read a thread of yours in regard to Malcolm McNeil and Catherine Ferguson. They are my Great Great Great Grandparents and Malcolm McNeil and Jeanie Reid are my Great Great Grandparents. I read through your posts and noticed you have a PDF file of family history. I would be very interested in seeing it, I’m in Australia and appreciate any help in tracing my Scottish ancestry.
Welcome to RootsChat.
You would be better to post on the thread for Malcolm McNeil and Catherine Ferguson so that Heather can see your post
Sandra