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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cornwall => Topic started by: G_B_W on Tuesday 30 June 15 03:12 BST (UK)

Title: Looking For Descendants Of Thomas Williams and Mary Penprase Of Camborne
Post by: G_B_W on Tuesday 30 June 15 03:12 BST (UK)
This forum was very helpful last August in pointing me towards information about my great grandparents Thomas Williams and Mary Penprase who lived and died in Camborne. I recently visited Camborne from California and found their house on Centenary Row and Thomas Williams' grave. My grandfather, George, is listed in the 1911 census as the second of 7 children living at 10 Centenary Row. I would like to find out anything about his siblings, when they died, whether they married, etc. So far, I haven't turned up any information about them. The children listed in the 1911 Census are Arthur, 23, George, 22 (my grandfather), Archie, 19, Fred, 17, Edith, 16, Ethel, 15, Ester, 14. The oldest daughter, Rose, 25, was probably married and gone from home. (My previous post was "Looking for Mary PENPRASE or PINPRAZE in Camborne", Tuesday August 14, 2014).
Thank you for any help
Title: Re: Looking For Descendants Of Thomas Williams and Mary Penprase Of Camborne
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 30 June 15 09:07 BST (UK)
Link to previous thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=695784.
Title: Re: Looking For Descendants Of Thomas Williams and Mary Penprase Of Camborne
Post by: chempat on Tuesday 30 June 15 20:28 BST (UK)
Have you identified births for all of them from e.g. free bmd, as their age in the census can be a year out?

e.g.Is this Archie?
Births June quarter  1891  Archie Williams        Redruth    5c   227   

Have you looked for marriages and deaths in the same area?  As the surname is so very common it will be difficult to identify them if they have moved away.

Were any of the family in the same grave or buried in the same cemetery as Thomas Williams?
Title: Re: Looking For Descendants Of Thomas Williams and Mary Penprase Of Camborne
Post by: G_B_W on Tuesday 30 June 15 21:27 BST (UK)
Thank you for your reply. No, I haven't confirmed the births. I was unaware of the Free BMD service. I have been using Ancestry(dot)com without much success with Thomas' children. I will see what I can find. Buried with Thomas is a 10 month old Irene Williams, presumably his daughter, who was buried in 1899 five months after he was. A Caroline Yeo, aged 8 Months, was also buried in 1915. It seems strange that a non-family member is buried with him, but my grandfather George married Laura Yeo in 1919. Perhaps the families were close. Thomas Williams and Elias Yeo, my other great grandfather, both worked at the South Crofty Mine.
Title: Re: Looking For Descendants Of Thomas Williams and Mary Penprase Of Camborne
Post by: chempat on Tuesday 30 June 15 21:45 BST (UK)
This will be the birth and death of Caroline - and her Mother's maiden name was Williams:

Births March quarter  1915  Caroline Yeo (mmn Williams)   Redruth    5c   331    
Deaths December quarter  1915   Caroline Yeo age   0        Redruth    5c   260    
Title: Re: Looking For Descendants Of Thomas Williams and Mary Penprase Of Camborne
Post by: chempat on Tuesday 30 June 15 21:49 BST (UK)
Caroline's Mother could be Edith, as there is this possible marriage:

Marriages December quarter  1914
Edith Williams  Redruth    5c   447    
Charles Yeo     Redruth    5c   447   
Title: Re: Looking For Descendants Of Thomas Williams and Mary Penprase Of Camborne
Post by: chempat on Tuesday 30 June 15 21:59 BST (UK)
If this is Edith's birth (from free bmd):
Births December quarter  1894    Edith Williams     Redruth    5c   190

then this could just about be her death (from ancestry):
Edith Yeo
Birth Date  22 Aug 1894
Date of Registration  Sep 1979
Registration district:   Camborne-Redruth
Volume   21  Page     0157

Her birth certificate would confirm if it is the correct Edith (parents) and what was the actual birth date, to check if correct death.
Title: Re: Looking For Descendants Of Thomas Williams and Mary Penprase Of Camborne
Post by: chempat on Tuesday 30 June 15 22:04 BST (UK)
Think Charles could be the brother of Laura - parents Elias and Esther in 1901 census?
Title: Re: Looking For Descendants Of Thomas Williams and Mary Penprase Of Camborne
Post by: StanleysChesterton on Tuesday 30 June 15 22:15 BST (UK)
I know the area and would say that there's a strong possibility many of them still live there, or within 5 miles.  It might be worth putting a small advert in the local papers - and/or contacting the local media.  It gets a bit quiet down there, not much for the papers/radio to cover, so you might get lucky and get the story picked up.

Main newspapers are:

Cornish Guardian
Western Morning News
West Briton

Title: Re: Looking For Descendants Of Thomas Williams and Mary Penprase Of Camborne
Post by: chempat on Tuesday 30 June 15 22:27 BST (UK)
If Esther never married, this could be her birth and death:

Births March quarter  1897  Esther Williams      Redruth    5c   208 (from free bmd)

   Esther Williams  Birth Date   4 Jan 1897
Date of Registration  Apr 1996  at    Camborne-redruth
Register Number 51   District    3551   Entry Number  60 (from ancestry)
Title: Re: Looking For Descendants Of Thomas Williams and Mary Penprase Of Camborne
Post by: chempat on Tuesday 30 June 15 22:38 BST (UK)
There are various Ethel's born around Redruth and married in Redruth.

However, this could be her birth and death (from free bmd)

Births December quarter  1895  Ethel Williams      Redruth    5c   208    

Deaths June quarter  1968   Ethel Williams  age 72    Redruth  7a    159
Title: Re: Looking For Descendants Of Thomas Williams and Mary Penprase Of Camborne
Post by: chempat on Tuesday 30 June 15 22:47 BST (UK)
Possible probate for Ethel - of Chapel Terrace Portreath

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=williams&yearOfDeath=1968&page=20#calendar
Title: Re: Looking For Descendants Of Thomas Williams and Mary Penprase Of Camborne
Post by: G_B_W on Wednesday 01 July 15 02:21 BST (UK)
Thank you chempat for the leads and StanleysChesterton for the suggestion to advertise. Yes, Charles Yeo was Laura's brother, the son of Elias and Esther. If, as seems likely, Charles Yeo married Edith Williams, then the two families were even closer than I imagined with brother and sister marrying brother and sister. No wonder Caroline was buried in Thomas' grave. Charles died in India at age 20 in 1915. I wonder if he would have been in the military there?

When I was in Camborne last month, I felt that there must be descendants of Thomas Williams and Elias Yeo still in the area, but I had no way to find them in the short time I was there. I will research the newspapers mentioned by StanleysChesterton to see if there is a reporter interested in this story. If there is no interest, I will place an advertisement. Thank you so much for the help and ideas.
Title: Re: Looking For Descendants Of Thomas Williams and Mary Penprase Of Camborne
Post by: chempat on Wednesday 01 July 15 06:54 BST (UK)
I wondered if Charles had died in the war as I could see no other death for him.

That means that Edith lost her daughter and husband in the same year, and then did not remarry.

Which could mean no children from Edith (widow), Ethel (unmarried) and Esther (unmarried).


I also think I could not find a death for Archie - did he die in the War?
Title: Re: Looking For Descendants Of Thomas Williams and Mary Penprase Of Camborne
Post by: G_B_W on Wednesday 01 July 15 23:55 BST (UK)
I found the following information about Charles Yeo and Archie Williams:

Charles Yeo died 1 Nov 1915 Hyderabad, India. He enlisted in Truro and was a private in the Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry

Archie sailed from Liverpool for Rio de Janeiro, 14 Jun 1921; his intended place of permanent residence was Brazil.

So far I haven't found anything about Arthur. I met my great uncle Fred in 1973. I don't believe he married. I think he died in 1979. If Edith, Esther and Ethel had no children, and Fred had none, the possible pool of descendants has considerably diminished. I will continue to look for Arthur, born about 1888 and Rose, born about 1895.

Thank you again