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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: TheBanana on Saturday 27 June 15 15:56 BST (UK)
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I am going simply add the details, and would be grateful for those who could help me find the parents, Birth index or more census records for my great-great grandfather JAMES KEMBLE. Thus far, I have found the 1901 and 1911 census for James Kemble but I cannot seem to progress. Here are the details that I hope you can work with. Thank you!
James Kemble (born ca. 1873-1918) married Margaret Lyons (born 1880) in 1898 - they were both born and married in Cardiff, Wales according to the census records and BMD.
Children (all born in Cardiff):
Mary Catherine Kemble born 1899
Margaret May Kemble born 1900
James Kemble born 1901
Theresa Kemble born 1903
Hilda Kemble born 1907
Monica Kemble born 1909
William Francis Kemble born 1910 and died 1968 (my great-grandfather)
Lawrence Kemble born 1912
Dorothy Kemble born 1914
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Your best bet would be to buy the marriage certificate as that will give you his father's name and occupation.
I can't see a James Kemble (or variant) birth in Cardiff or find him in the 1881 or 1891 census ???
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There is one Kemble family in Cardiff in 1881, but no mention of a James:
Isaac, 37, labourer, born Chepstow
Catherine, 35, born Cardiff
with children all born in Cardiff...
Elizabeth, 19,
Mary Ann, 17
Catherine, 13
Isaac, 15
In 1891 there's only a young couple with 2 very young children, and a 22 year old married woman with a young child.
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There is a birth registered march qtr 1874 in Cardiff
James Cemble
11a 322
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That looks good Welshjo, shame my phonetic search didn't find that one :-[
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There is a birth registered march qtr 1874 in Cardiff
James Cemble
11a 322
Ah, now that may definitely lead to something.
I did a duration calculation from the date of the 1901 census and the the potential year he was born (judging from the age on the census) and I think this may definitely be him as it matched up.
The only issue now is trying to understand then name change and furthering the line.
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There is a mention of a 17 year old James Kemble in Cardiff in 1891 in Welsh Newspapers online - possibly the same person?
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3143971/3143974/60/
Mar
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It may not be a name change. Just a difference between people hearing and spelling. Census forms often filled in by enumerators whose spelling would be dependent on what they thought they heard and accent of person. BMDs filled in by registrar and spelling mistakes not always noticed.
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There is a mention of a 17 year old James Kemble in Cardiff in 1891 in Welsh Newspapers online - possibly the same person?
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3143971/3143974/60/
Mar
Thanks for that!
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I have found a burial for James Kemble so I will check if there are any details on the gravestone (if there is one). Otherwise, I will obtain the marriage certificate.
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Also, I have just noticed that the 1911 Census states that James Kemble and Margaret Lyons had one child who had died. A different child isn't shown on the 1901 census, so my assumption is that they had a child in between 1901 and 1911 who died young. But, there are quite a few KEMBLE's in Cardiff who died young at that period according to FreeBMD. Any ideas?
It could either be:
Deaths Mar 1902 (>99%)
Kemble John 0 Cardiff 11a 194
Deaths Sep 1907 (>99%)
KEMBLE Patricia 2 Cardiff 11a 150
Deaths Mar 1909 (>99%)
KEMBLE William 0 Cardiff 11a 228
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It definitely seems to me that James Kemble is the son of Isaac and Catherine although there is one mystery.
First, in 1891 the family includes a James shown aged 9 bc.1882 BUT there is no James under any variation of the name bc.1882 - I think that the age 9 should probably have read 19 (rather than 17 which would have been correct although if you compare the various census for the family their ages often a couple of years out).
Right, the mystery is that in 1881 census their youngest child is shown as Catherine bc.1868 - however, they had at least 5 children born in the 1870's i.e.
William born June 1871 as Cemble - died Dec.1872 as Kembell
James born Mar.1874 as Cemble (shown as 9?? in 1891)
Esther born Mar.1876 as Camble
John born Jun.1878 as Kemble (shown as 10?? in 1891)
William born Sept.1880 as Cemble
(2 that were born in 1880's were Sarah Ann and Samuel both shown as 7 in 1891 - however, Sarah Ann was born (as Camble) in Sept.1882 and Samuel born Mar.1885 (as Kemble) so you can see what I mean about ages in 1891 being up the creek with also James and John with wrong ages!)
The eldest William had died - but where were the other 4 children in 1881? Did the enumerator simply miss them off somehow?
Anyway, after all that I'm pretty sure that if you get the birth certificate for James Cemble birth Mar.1874 it will confirm his parents as Isaac/Catherine (or indeed his marriage certificate) even though he and 3 younger siblings are 'missing' in 1881.
Annette
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That is truly some good information to ponder. I have concluded to order a marriage certificate soon, so hopefully that should reveal some light on the subject.
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Hi,
I am back again! I have just received the marriage certificate for James Kemble and Margaret Lyons. Much of my information on the two are correct, with regards to occupation, addresses and Margaret Lyons' father (William).
I have found that James Kemble's father is Isaac Kemble but I am wondering if anyone can help me find more information/connection on him.
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1851 Census
Chepstow, Monmouthshire, Wales
Elizabeth Kemble, 41, Head, Widow, born Falmouth, Cornwall
William Kemble, 15, Son, born Monmouthshire
Nathaniel Kemble, 10, Son, born Lidney, Gloucestershire
ISAC Kemble, 8, Son, born Lidney***
Christopher Kemble, 3, Son, born Chepstow, Monmouthshire
NATHANIEL Kemble
Baptised 24 Nov 1839, Lydney, Gloucestershire\
Parents JAMES/ELIZABETH
Fathers Occp Maltster
Register Type: Bishop's Transcripts
1841 Census
Lydney, Glous
HO107/350/3/Lydney
James Kimble, 30, Maltster
Elizabeth Kimble, 30
Hester Kimble, 9
Ann Kimble, 7
William Kimble, 5
Samuele Kimble, 3
Nathamel Kimble, 1
James born Glous, Elizabeth/Hester/Ann/William are not, last 2 Children born in Glous.
1861 Elizabeth KEMBLE is born c 1813 Ireland, Son Samuel 1837 and Christopher 1849 are with her in Cwmbach, Glamorganshire
This is likely them in 1881 in Liverpool, Lancashire;
Samuel Kemble, 39
Ann Jane Kemble, 43
Samuel Kemble, 12
William Kemble, 11
Edwin Kemble, 8
Nathanil Kemble, 5
Elizabeth Kemble, 69, Mother, born 1812 Chepstow, Monmouth
1871 in Lancs she is born c 1821 Chepstow, under Kembell
LancsOPC;
Marriage: 5 Sep 1866 St Columba, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Samuel Kemble - full, Dock Labourer, Bachelor, 40 Regent Road West Derby
Anne Williams - (X), full, Spinster, 84 Brownlow Hill
Groom's Father: James Kemble, (deceased), Maltster
Bride's Father: William Williams, (deceased), Sailor
Witness: James Clements; Isabble [sic] Tolmie
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BAPTISM;
HESTER Kemble 15 April 1832, Parish Church, Chepstow
Parents JAMES/ELIZABETH
Fthers Occp Labourer
Abode Thomas Street
BURIAL;
JAMES Kemble, 17 Feb 1847 same Church
Age 38
Abode Thomas Street
+
EDWIN Kemble buried 1 Jan 1846 age 1yr, abode Thomas Street
All on FreeREG
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Hi, much thanks for the help. I am looking into that now. Also, I am wondering, is there a way you could find out in the 1891 census of on information on Isaac Kemble (b. 1841) as I am wondering if he had more children with Catherine.
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Also, I have just re-checked your information and it was a huge help. I have confirmed that Isaac and Catherine are James' parents. I am just trying to confirm 3 birth years of Isaac's children (Elizabeth, Mary A and Isaac)
It definitely seems to me that James Kemble is the son of Isaac and Catherine although there is one mystery.
First, in 1891 the family includes a James shown aged 9 bc.1882 BUT there is no James under any variation of the name bc.1882 - I think that the age 9 should probably have read 19 (rather than 17 which would have been correct although if you compare the various census for the family their ages often a couple of years out).
Right, the mystery is that in 1881 census their youngest child is shown as Catherine bc.1868 - however, they had at least 5 children born in the 1870's i.e.
William born June 1871 as Cemble - died Dec.1872 as Kembell
James born Mar.1874 as Cemble (shown as 9?? in 1891)
Esther born Mar.1876 as Camble
John born Jun.1878 as Kemble (shown as 10?? in 1891)
William born Sept.1880 as Cemble
(2 that were born in 1880's were Sarah Ann and Samuel both shown as 7 in 1891 - however, Sarah Ann was born (as Camble) in Sept.1882 and Samuel born Mar.1885 (as Kemble) so you can see what I mean about ages in 1891 being up the creek with also James and John with wrong ages!)
The eldest William had died - but where were the other 4 children in 1881? Did the enumerator simply miss them off somehow?
Anyway, after all that I'm pretty sure that if you get the birth certificate for James Cemble birth Mar.1874 it will confirm his parents as Isaac/Catherine (or indeed his marriage certificate) even though he and 3 younger siblings are 'missing' in 1881.
Annette
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I take it this is isaac & Catherine having a domestic in July 1894, especially given the address. Another article suggests they had been separated for a few years
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3245896/3245898/28/
A couple of versions say Catherine is 24, but I think that can't be right. There's another item in March 1871 where she's arrested for stealing a duck at Pendolyn market. she avoids prison through being due to give birth in days (William, presumably)
Also a possible for Isaac junior, aged 14 in December 1880, getting 10 days with hard labour for stealing a pair of trousers from Mr Morris Brukewich, outfitters, in Bute Docks
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I wonder if this is Isaac's birth - given they are under a wierd spelling mix of Cambpell and Kemble in 1891
Isaac Campbell
Q4 1866
Cardiff Vol 11a, p207
similarly there's this outside possibility for MAry Ann
Mary Ann Campbell
Q3 1864 Cardiff Vol 11a, p221
I found some newspaper reports for an Elizabeth Kemble, with convictions for pilfering a shop till in 1876, aged 14, and two for theft from jewellery shops in 1881, an 18 yr old charwoman. There's an ELizabeth aged 18 in Cardiff prison on the 1881 census, born Aberdare, as well as the one with Isaac and Catherine (who is a charwoman!!). it's noticeable there's only on Elizabeth Kemble on 1871, and one birth in Glamorgan of an elizabeth Kemble in the right period, in Merthyr Tydfil district.
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Hi,
Much thanks for the help. It appears that is the correct Isaac! How did you manage to get a hold of the exact articles? Do you have links to the other articles too?
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On the Welsh newspapers online site
Elizabeth
Aged 14
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4344446/4344452/55/
Feb 1881
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3387410/3387413/45/
August 1881
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3335896/3335903/45/
Juvenile Isaac
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3420731/3420737/105/
Catherine and the duck
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3387905/3387912/57/