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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: janglover on Tuesday 23 June 15 21:01 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
I am researching my Glover line and they all hail from Kerry, Ireland. During my research I found the following articles and I'm intrigued. I think I know where Peter fits into my tree but I knew nothing about the Australian connection. I have no idea where to start looking and would appreciate any advice. Many thanks
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There are a couple of ads here in 1899
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article138613621
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article138613316
PETER GLOVER, wlio left Co. Kerry,
Ireland, some years ago, is requested to
communicate with George Glover, stonemason,
Dicksgrove Cross, Farranfore P.O., Kerry, Ireland.
regards,
Ros
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Thanks a million Rose. That's him aright. Now I can start searching for the millions ;D ;D
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If you give his parents' names and his date of birth we may be able to help further. (on condition of sharing the millions!! :D )
Seriously those details may help find BMDs or other information.
Judith
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Hi Judb,
I'd LOVE to have his parents names or his DOB but I have little chance of getting them. It's very difficult to research that far back in Ireland. I'm relying on remaining extracts of church registers and in their parish only bits of them exist (to 1803). Glover is not a Kerry name and I presumed they came from elsewhere - but where ??
I have a group of Glovers living in Killeentiena around the 1830s. I managed to get the marriage record of my GG Grandparents William Glover and Gobnait Brosnan. They were married in Killeentierna in 1837. I suspect that Peter may be William's brother. I also have Walter Glover who appears twice here:
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/a303e20155788
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/e39ba40029040
Walter is listed as a soldier on the original marriage register for his daughter. Perhaps he is another brother or perhaps Peter's father.
I thought I might be able to find passenger records or an obit for Peter. It would be great if I could as it might help me tie the whole family up
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Hi Jan,
Is this your post?
http://boards.ancestry.ca/localities.northam.canada.quebec.montreal.general/4927.1.1/mb.ashx
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Guilty as charged ! as far as I know that particular Peter is a nephew of the one in Australia. The Canadian one had a large family that emigrated in 1888. I have their grave details from Notre Dame des Neiges Cemetery in Montreal. I doubt if they are the same one. Bearing in mind I have at least 5 Peters, 6 Williams and a pile of Georges in the Glover ranks, it's hard to keep track of them.
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Thanks for clarifying, why is the millionaire always the hardest to track down ;D
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This one won't be easy. I'm just hoping that I find a long detailed obit in the Australian newspapers :)
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Just a thought, maybe his will might be of use. Any ideas where to search for Aussie wills ?
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Each state holds their own records. This is Victoria http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fjf/
Adding: Would expect at an obit for someone of his standing and the government would ensure their slice of the pie.
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Many thanks !
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I thought I'd replied to this.
I can find no evidence of your Peter GLOVER in my resources, many of which are not online. Nor can I find any evidence of Henry J FLOOD leaving or returning to Victoria. I notice that Mr FLOOD could not spell Federal.....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_palace
I can find no evidence of a Peter GLOVER having a shareholding in any gold mining company in Victoria. His name should have appeared in the Victorian Government Gazettes when the co was registered. Thousands of mining companies were registered but I can't find a "Victorian Gold Mining Company".
I can find no evidence of Mr GLOVER advertising in the Victorian and Melbourne papers 'for some friends of his in Ireland".
The 1890's was the decade of financial problems and a crash in the property market in Melbourne.
I have searched the available electoral rolls, from Federation in 1900, and are online at Ancestry.com.au. and the only Peter GLOVER , Railway employee, was in Western Australia where he appeared for a number of years.
When was your Peter GLOVER born? I have read many times people were of 'advanced years' or elderly and found later they were only in their fifties and sixties ::) Probably considered elderly as life expectancy wasn't as long as today :)
That's about it :)
Cando
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Nor is he listed as having a will in Victoria.
http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=54
There is a Peter GLOVER living in Kilmore, a bootmaker, died 1890, so unlikely to be the right man.
No-one of that name appears on the NSW Keyname search
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/keyname.aspx
There is only one death for a Peter GLOVER listed in NSW - in 1877.
Judith
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For you interest, a picture and some information about the Federal Palace Hotel.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/67442246
Can't help wondering whether the gentlemen replying in the Irish newspaper about the whereabouts of GLOVER was not quite correct in his identification of the man.
Sue
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Cando, I had typed up an almost identical post as yours about the non-existence fo those two men but was waiting to see if anyone had a breakthrough. It's quite weird really and you have to wonder what the purpose was behind what seems to be completely false statements. Perhaps they were spies talking to each other 8)
Debra :)
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Unusual but..... "Victorian Gold Ming Company"
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/32714616
Could this registration have slipped through the cracks somehow?
Neil
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In Western Australia so wouldn't be registered in Vic.
Mmm
Cando
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In Western Australia so wouldn't be registered in Vic.
Mmm
Cando
Though Mr FLOOD was not specific about where the mine and enormous land-holdings actually were ;)
Why would anyone advertise in the "Victorian and Melbourne " papers for friends/relatives in Ireland in the sense of searching for them?
Sue
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A little more. ;D
http://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/pdf/battye/pods/1911/0300.pdf
Neil
I like a good mystery ::) ::) ::)
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Just to clarify, the article actually say "Victoria Gold Mining Company"
There are quite a few articles http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fk2/
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Yep...read all those during the time I spent the other day searching for this bloke and the mining co and not all are Victoria Mining...some have other prefixes. And Mr FLOOD couldn't spell Federal so perhaps his info wasn't accurate about the mining company name.
Many people would have lived invested and had property in Aus and unless you searched for titles doubt you would find anything else.
Perhaps this bloke wrote home glowing accounts of his life in Aus...many did and were found out later that it was far from the truth. ::) ::)
Anyway I'll leave to others now even though like Neil, I like a mystery.
Cando
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Wow, I'm seriously impressed with all your hard work. I switched the laptop on this morning and if it's as if a team of personal detectives have been busy working !
This one really is a mystery. I never knew that Peter existed until I found that newspaper advert. Saying that, it is really difficult to research Irish genealogy so far back. We don't have State records and are reliant on the remaining scraps of church registers and newspaper archives. I have my GG Grandparents marriage record and a few other bits. I have a record of a Walter Glover(soldier) in the area at that time. He may be Peter's father or brother. I know this is all very vague but Peter must have existed. IF Henry Flood is to be believed (big IF at this stage) I suspect Peter is my GG Grandfather's brother. Why would he make up such a letter. The mystery continues..........
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Hello Jan. I suspect that Mr Peter GLOVER had left the mine (if he was ever there)prior to 1899 as in the shareholders meeting of that year he was made no reference to. He of course could still be a shareholder, but not on the management. He also would seem to have left Australia as no death can be found for him.
It is odd that a reference was made to him being a "Millionaire" in the newspaper. That could have been a figment of his imagination or someone else's. Millionaire is a term relative to "Billionaire" nowadays. The disappearance of such a person would rate much more of a mention in the newspapers and proper searches undertaken. He would also have made much more of the news items, as he would have been one a vary elite number.
It was not uncommon to find people referred to as such, but in reality not quite so.
I wish you luck in your quest. ;)
Neil
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Thanks a million Neil, I reckon you are right about the 'millionaire' status. I'd surely have found at least an obit for someone of such standing. We had a Peter Glover in the family who ended up in Montreal but he emigrated with his entire family in 1888 so I'm certain it's not the same person. The logical explanation is that he was a bit of a spoofer and Henry Flood believed him. I won't give up yet, I'd still like to found out what happened to him - even if it means I have to cancel that Ferrari ;D
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I'm trying to trace a relative Peter Glover who was born in Killeentierna, Kerry, Ireland 1840c. Apparently he emigrated to Victoria and the only information I have is from a Kerry newspaper in 1899. It states that he was a major shareholder in the Victoria Gold Mining Company and the owner of extensive properties. According to the article he had been staying at the Fedral Palace Hotel (sp ?). I'm not familiar with Australian sources and I found a Peter Glover but he was a bootmaker from Kilmore. I don't think that's my guy. If anyone has any idea where I might start looking I'd really appreciate it.
Many thanks
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hi Jan,
Just including a link to last quest to avoid duplication
topics merged
regards
Ros
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Agh, thanks Ros,
Perhaps janglover could ask for threads to be merged.
ADD
RChat's Resources Board for Australia may be useful :)
..... If anyone has any idea where I might start looking I'd really appreciate it.
....
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/australia-resources-offers/
Cheers, JM
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Apologies for the duplication. Could you be kind enough to merge the threads as majm suggests. Thanks
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Have you searched again for his death in Ireland Jan?
The most likely reason for trying to contact him after all these years (and advertising in overseas papers) is that there was a considerable (?) inheritance there for him. Perhaps he had enough money ;D to return to Ireland to claim his inheritance and died there ??
regards,
Ros
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No luck finding a death record here for him Rosball. Although that's not unusual as lots of deaths were never registered. The search continues.....
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If this link is to the correct Victoria Gold Mining Company it does not seem to have been very successful.
http://www.southaustralianhistory.com.au/victoria.htm
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Thanks Barry,
That's a really interesting article. It really makes me think that somebody, somewhere might have been exaggerating their 'success'.
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There was a Victoria Gold Mining Co in Bendigo. George Lansell owned several fabulously rich Gold mines in Bendigo around Victoria Hill.
Looking for mine names can be a bit of a minefield (groan) as names were used and reused all over the place. Trove might help with prospectuses meetings of shareholders etc. for large mines, but a lot of mines were only small affairs and were here and then gone with hardly a trace.
A bit more research and the actual name was the Victoria Quartz mine or Victoria Hill Quartz mine, renamed to Lansells180
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/01har/
Looks like the company was wound up back in November 1869,
Beechworth Court of Mines
Re Victoria Gold Mining Company (Registered), Gaffney’s Creek
A Dividend of 20s per pound will be payable at my office upon all debts duly proved by affidavit before the Court of Mines, held at Beechworth on the 18th instant, on Monday the 29th day of November, 1869.
Total liabilities proved £663 16 4
Total Assets recovered £980 12 0
…….
Victoria Government Gazette No. 60, page 1753
Friday October 29, 1869
(there were 20 shillings to the pound, so there were funds left over and these were further distributed pro rata to the shareholders after expenses paid, so the proven creditors were 'paid in full' ).
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/australia-resources-offers/
The Victoria Government Gazette is available via the Victoria resources board that is found via the above link. Free to search, each to download pdf, and great search engine.
Cheers, JM
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Looking at the Bendigo map of the period there were at least half a dozen mines with variations of Victoria in their name, Victoria regia, Victoria Gold mining Co, Western Victoria Gold mining Co. etc etc.
Link. http://search.slv.vic.gov.au/primo_library/libweb/action/dlDisplay.do?vid=MAIN&reset_config=true&docId=SLV_VOYAGER698057
Have a look at map 3 for an idea of the task, its the Long Gully/ Ironbark (Bendigo) area, North is at the right of the map. A little way down the left side you will see the Victoria GMCo and if you look to the right you will see lots of variations of mines with Victoria in the name.
It is an incomplete set and doesn't cover the central or Eastern part of the goldfield.
Trib on a mine means it is being worked by tributers, miners who worked someone elses mine for a direct share in anything they found rather than wages, usually when money to keep the mine running was getting tight.
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Yes, and the 1899 newspaper cutting that Jan has linked at both the threads actually gives the name of Peter Glover's company.
Rusted, are you offering George Lansell as the real name of the Peter Glover that our OP is seeking?
Trove has obits for him, including there's this one in Punch
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/175374031 22 March 1906
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/151819291 Daily Tele 21 March 1906
That death is indexed at Vic BDM # 562, in 1906
Geo LANSELL, age 82, died Bgo, father as Thos LANSELL, mother as Elizth (Budds). http://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/home/family+history/search+your+family+history/
http://prov.vic.gov.au/research/wills-and-probate
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/lansell-george-3992 1823-1906 born Margate, Kent, England.
Our OP has Peter Glover born Killeentierna, Kerry Ireland c1840.
Cheers, JM
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" are you offering George Lansell as the real name of the Peter Glover that our OP is seeking?"
Not at all, most of these were companies and our Mr Glover could have been a shareholder in any of them, I was just attempting to illustrate the difficulty of searching for a particular mine by its name.