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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Pennines on Monday 22 June 15 17:53 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Whilst I am an experienced family history researcher, I am completely new to New Zealand research -- and I am hoping somebody can kindly help me with basic information. I am trying to help a friend with her New Zealand ancestry.
From the BMD website -- (which seems to be a Government site) - I get the impression that there are strict time scales in place, such as a birth must be over 100 years ago, a marriage 80 years ago and a death 50 years ago -- before a certificate (or a printout) can be ordered. (Also the actual website doesn't seem to be working properly and I don't appear to be able to search for BMDs - unless I'm doing something wrong.)
Are there any published parish records available for NZ please? A limited number appear on Ancestry and Family Search, but not for the family I am seeking. (I have discovered various Electoral Rolls and directories - but nothing much else for family information.)
Seems like a nightmare at the moment! As there don't seem to be any census records either, I would be really grateful if anyone can provide basic tips please about NZ research and BMDs?
Many thanks in advance
Pennines
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Hi Pennines
What period of time are you looking at?
Cheers Janette
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Hi Janette,
Thank you for replying -- from about 1920 backwards. Which doesn't fall into the 100 year embargo unfortunately.
However I suspect that I may have found a possible death in 1914 for someone who may be connected (and is likely an ancestor). That would be OK for ordering a certificate as a starter - if only I knew how to do so.
For instance -- is there the same information on printouts as on certificates? I've never heard of those before. I am entering a whole new genealogy world!
Regards Pennines
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If you are ordering from BDM's it is often better to order a "printout" they are a photocopy of the actual entry in the register and usually contain a bit more information and as a bonus they are a little cheaper.
There is also PapersPast which can be quite useful
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=q&q=&e=-------10--1----0--
If you would like to post names some of us may be able to help you
Cheers Janette
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Cemetery records are often another useful resource
Cheers Janette
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Hi Pennines, and welcome to the New Zealand Board :)
Before you purchase the 'printout' of the certificate you could search New Zealand newspapers for a record of the individual's death. The website is Papers Past http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/
And since the individual is deceased you're welcome to post the name and details here to see what other information can be found.
Don't hesitate to ask for help if you need guidance. There's some very experienced and persistent researchers here. 8)
Spades
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I get the impression that there are strict time scales in place, such as a birth must be over 100 years ago, a marriage 80 years ago and a death 50 years ago -- before a certificate (or a printout) can be ordered.
Hello...
You can order BDM certificates/printouts right up to 1990, just not from the BDM NZ website. Most main city libraries have BDM microfiche covering 1840-1990. The fiche give the relevant year/folio number. You can then phone or email BDM NZ with that info plus your credit card details.
The 100 year, 80 year and 50 year restrictions you mentioned are just arbitrary limits imposed to inconvenience people who can't access a NZ library.
The info on the fiche is minimal (usually just name and folio number) and fiche are obviously not as quick to search as a computerised database but someone will usually pop along to the library for you if you ask for a fiche look-up.
Regards
Beg
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My most grateful thanks to you all.
I will look at the sites you suggest first - and see how I get on, in the hope that I don't have to trouble anyone further. However, I suspect I'll be back!
Thank you again - I knew that Roots Chatters would be able to help. You are a great bunch.
Regards
Pennines
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Don't forget "Archway." The website of our National Archives where you can pick up Wills, Divorces, Coronial enquiries and importantly this year the records of those who served during WW1. They also include other matters where individuals have interacted with the bureaucracy.
http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/
Alan
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Thank you very much, Alan.
I have just used the link you provided and searched for the person who I think died in 1914, who MAY be connected to the family I am researching --- and BINGO -- up came a Will! Immediate success.
They don't make it easy in New Zealand though, do they --- it can only be viewed in Dunedin! In the UK -- we can order such things (at a cost of course). I will email the Archives and see what's what.
Thank you so much for the link.
Regards
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Pennines, familysearch are digitising the Wills for Archives NZ and they are searchable on familysearch's website - https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1865481. They're not yet complete but they do appear to have digitised 1914 for Dunedin. All you need to do is enter the name in the search box.
Otherwise, its probably worth posting a request on here as some kind chatters do photograph Wills for people at the NZ Archives. I think from memory the Archives themselves charge rather a lot for copies. :-\
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I recently ordered a copy of a 1976 Probate+Will from Christchurch Archives. They only charged me $20, and I had the scanned document emailed to me within a week. I thought that was pretty good service.
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I am genuinely overwhelmed by your help and knowledge. Thank you so much -- I came on here knowing nothing about NZ research -- and now I can have hours of fun exploring the sites you have told me about.
You have made an old woman very happy!!
Regards
Pennines
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I recently ordered a copy of a 1976 Probate+Will from Christchurch Archives. They only charged me $20, and I had the scanned document emailed to me within a week. I thought that was pretty good service.
Hhm, I may have been getting costs confused with Australian Archives as that is reasonable. :-X That said, without online ordering, its probably more difficult for those of us that live outside New Zealand.
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I think you will find that there are folk willing to go into the 4 Archives offices to view and photograph various files for you which saves the costs
Cheers Janette
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That's brilliant news Janette. Thank you.
I will check the Look Ups section later (seems really cheeky but I'll give it a go when I am ready).
Regards
Pennines
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If you've already checked the link I gave for familysearch and the Will doesn't appear, then its definitely worth a lookup request on here. I've been very lucky with some sidelines, hence my suggestion in an earlier post rather than contacting the Archives direct.
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That's brilliant news Janette. Thank you.
I will check the Look Ups section later (seems really cheeky but I'll give it a go when I am ready).
Regards
Pennines
If you would like a file viewed just start a new thread with the appropriate look up request in the title we are a helpful friendly bunch down here ;D ;D ;D ;D and NO it is not cheeky to ask for help :D
Cheers Janette
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Janette -- thank you --- you are indeed a helpful friendly bunch.
Smudwhisk (wonder where that user name came from!)
I did try the Family Search link you gave me, thank you --- unfortunately the Will I was looking for -- Edward Fielder Butler, 1914, wasn't included yet. At least I couldn't see it. I was amazed that Family Search had those records on their site.
I have tried all the links I have been given actually -- the Newspaper one is really good -- more user-friendly than the UK one.
xx
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Here is his burial
BUTLER, Edward Fielder
Date of Death 1914-11-11
Age 79 years
Cemetery Otautau
Location of Grave 12.00 Old Cemetery Block VI
He shares it with
BUTLER, Annie M
Address Chantry Downs
Date of Death 1903-06-24
Age 65 years
Cemetery Otautau
Location of Grave 12.00 Old Cemetery Block VI
Cheers Janette
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You little star!
I hadn't found that - although I did find his fathers burial record.
Edward Fielder Butler had married an Annie Matilda Wallace in 1863 (Ancestry transcribed record).
He couldn't have been in NZ long at that point. Clearly fell hook, line and sinker for a local lass.
xx
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Here is his wife Annie's death notice
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=ST19030626.2.9&srpos=91&e=-------100--1-byDA---2E+F+Butler--
Cheers Janette
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A notice about him moving but he died a few days later
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=OSWCC19140602.2.15&srpos=107&e=-------100--101-byDA---2E+F+Butler--
Cheers Janette
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Hello Pennines,
You may already have come across this, but there is a snippet in the' Dominion' dated 8.4.1915, stating the value of Edward's estate.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
You have his children?
1867/33621 Butler George Annie Matilda Edward Fielder -
1869/37657 Butler Margaret Annie Matilda Edward Fielder -
1864/22431 Butler Stanley William Annie Matilda Edward Fielder -
1872/41143 Butler Evelyn Annie Matilda Edward Fielder -
1866/32739 Butler Anna Annie Matilda Edward Fielder -
1866/33216 Butler Edward Wallace Annie Matilda Edward Fielder
Minniehaha.
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Here is the marriage from BDM's
1863/4528 Annie Matilda Wallace Edward Fielder Butler narrowed down the exact date was 17/12/1863
Cheers Janette
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Here is the marriage notice for Edward and Annie
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=ST18631221.2.8&srpos=3&e=-------100--1-byDA---2w+h+butler--
Cheers Janette
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Here is a bit of information about the family in NZ some of it might be wrong
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/ENG-SURREY/2001-04/0987679597
Cheers Janette
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Oh my goodness!
This is brilliant information -- I know about the England side of the family. In fact the middle name of 'Fielder' came from Melissant Fielder ( mother of William Huntington Butler).
I hadn't found the births of Edward Fielder's children. That was one thing I really wanted -- did you get them from the BMD site please? I seem to have problems with that site. Every time I try to search for records I am getting an 'error' page.
Whilst I had found some newspaper articles -- I hadn't found the one you mentioned, Janette, about Edward Fielder Butler moving (I particularly laughed at the advert underneath it for men's underwear! That is hilarious.)
I am actually trying to link the England family to the New Zealand family - and I cannot mention the names of the New Zealand family, as the eldest known member may still be alive (born about 1920 ish). I know I have been reticent with names -- but that is the reason.
Seeing the names of the children gives me even further cause to believe that the England side of William Huntington Butler -- Edward Fielder Butler --- and the person I am trying to help - are linked. I don't know for sure though yet - and in all honesty unless parish records are available for baptisms around 1920 - I can't find out until about 2020!
Thank you all so very much for the tremendous assistance you have provided. I only wish I could reciprocate in some way.
Regards
Pennines
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I seem to have problems with that site. Every time I try to search for records I am getting an 'error' page.
BDM's have been having problems for the last week and has been coming and going,so it is not you ;D ;D
Cheers Janette
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My problem has been getting past REALME, before I can locate and get my non-historical record! Three shots and you're locked out temporarily! The only time I did get to REALME, It wouldn't transfer me through to BDM! The "voice" when I phoned offered to transfer me to 2 different divisions of WINZ! And then just kept chanting.....on and on.....
Finally got a live person today on the phone at REALME, she gave me a new password, to be changed , then I had to go in and change it, guess what.... Wouldn't do it! AGAIN AND AGAIN locked out! Got a text, "see you are having log in difficulties..... Blah blah blah Phone us.....etc etc. Still locked out! 15 mins at a time, and then eventually, "You can Contact our help desk 24 hrs per day, 7 days per week! Very frustrating!
I am trying to get this record as a favour for a Rootschatter in England who has given me such a lot of help! I am not trying again until tomorrow!! IF - I'm in a better mood!! ??? ???
Oh well, frustration is part of the game, I guess if I didn't have to go through REALME for this one, I could probably phone straight through to BDM to order it! Them's the breaks!!
Does this message make sense?? No I don't think so.... ;D ;D
Oh well, tomorrow's another day!!
Cheers
Jeanne 😃
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Hi Jeanne
I don't think Pennines will have been trying to use the non historical BDM's so it it doesn't apply for her
Cheers Janette
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I really enjoyed the rant though!
I ignored the Realme bit of the site, as I thought I would need to go and lie down in a darkened room before I could get to grips with that.
As it was, I was going around in circles on that site and kept hitting the 'error' page. I was unable to search at all - so it is good to know that there is a general problem, which hopefully will be resolved soon.
xx
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Oops... Sorry about the REALME rant! Glad you enjoyed it though Pennines😄
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Historic BDM's is functioning at present
https://bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Home/
Cheers Janette
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Oops... Sorry about the REALME rant! Glad you enjoyed it though Pennines😄
Did you forget to take your pills again Jeanne ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers Janette
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Oops... Sorry about the REALME rant! Glad you enjoyed it though Pennines😄
I did it all online, finally got it all changed and updated, had to have a new photo and now I am good for another few years, when Igovt has to be verified again.
In saying that, if you have the details of the info you want you can email/phone BDM and have your credit card ready, I have done that a few times for the non-historical.
Cheers
KHP
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:D ;D ;D ;D Janette, I took my pills this morning like a good girl!!
And thanks KHP, after another apparently botched attempt with RMe I've just sent an email to BDM requesting it through them! So fingers crossed I'll hear back from them in the morning!
Janette - I guess if I post any more rants like that on here, I'll be sent "on me bike" forever! ;D :o
Jeanne :)
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An update for my brilliant tutors on the NZ Board!
Let joy be unconfined ---- I have managed to order a death certificate from the BDM site. I am really excited about this because;
1. As Janette reported the site is finally working and I stopped going around in circles.
2. I must have misunderstood the embargo rules - and thought that a death certificate/printout couldn't be ordered unless the death was 50 years ago or more. (This one was in 1994 -- but the order was accepted OK).
Thank you again everyone for all your help to this newcomer to NZ Genealogy records. You've been brilliant ---- and Jeanne - please DON'T take the tablets. You are more fun without them!
xxx
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Oh well done Pennines
here are the BDM rules
Births that occurred at least 100 years ago
Stillbirths that occurred at least 50 years ago
Marriages that occurred at least 80 years ago
Deaths that occurred at least 50 years ago or the deceased's date of birth was at least 80 years ago.
I suspect yours was the date of birth at least 80 years ago.
If you want any help with a name you don't want to put her PM me and I will attampt to help you off the board
Cheers Janette
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An Edward Wallace Butler died in 1946, aged 79. [born 1866]. Probated will held @ Wellington Archives.
A William Stanley (not Stanley William) Butler died in 1928, aged 65 years. [born 1864]
Sons of Edward Fielder?
Minniehaha.
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These may be the deaths of two of Edward Fielder Butler's daughters:
Anna Butler, died 1951 aged 85 years. [born 1866]
Evelyn Butler, died 1902 aged 29 years. [born 1872]
Minniehaha.
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The William Stanley Butler mentioned in reply #39 could be the son of Edward Fielder. They are buried in the same cemetery:
Cemetery Search
BUTLER, William Stanley
Address Otautau
Date of Death 1928-11-19
Age 65 years
Cemetery Otautau
Location of Grave 1.00 Block C IV
Minniehaha.
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Proof would be needed, but this may be daughter Margaret:
BUTLER, Margaret
Date of Death 1945-12-25
Age 76 years
Cemetery Ryal Bush
Location of Grave 2.00 Block II
Minniehaha.
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Oh, thank you everyone -- yet again! You must all be heartily sick of getting messages from me by now.
Janette -- thank you for clarifying the Death rule - you are correct, the birth WAS over 80 years ago. That helps enormously as I had misunderstood that.
Minnie Ha Ha -- you are clearly an intrepid and excellent NZ researcher -- grateful thanks for the information.
After moaning about the BDM site -- and getting the rules wrong about death certificate/printout ordering --- I cannot believe that I received the printout (which I ordered only yesterday) -- this morning!
Less than 24 hours after ordering! What an amazing service.
Now I have the parent's names -- so I will see how I get on with those. (I am dreading discovering that the New Zealand line -- and the England line, descending from William Huntington Butler - and probably his son -- Edward Fielder Butler -- are not connected!)
At the moment I have 2 halves of a potential tree with only the middle bit missing. Since my initial plea for help on here -- I have received SO much information. It's been absolutely brilliant. As you can tell, I am just thrilled to bits.
xx
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I had an email back from NZ BDM today re my enquiry about a non historical marriage. Great news, and I can do it by email. Just got to fill in a form which they've sent me, and send it back. So thanks KHP for the help with that avenue! Saved me tackling that other avenue again! All is great and Pennines - my joy is also unconfined!
Dum de do dum de day! I'm eating some beautiful home made chocolates to celebrate! My friend makes them with Arnotts Tim Tams, and cream cheese, all whizzed up together, then dipped in Chocolate Melts! Decadent and delicious!
Jeanne ;D
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Oh, thank you everyone -- yet again! You must all be heartily sick of getting messages from me by now.
We never get sick of being able to help folk,just yell out if you need further help ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers Janette
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Will echo Janette, that is what the Board is for. :D
Might just have to experiment with TT's and cream cheese. ;D
Cheers
KHP
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Here you go then!
1 pkt Tim Tams
100 gms Cream Cheese
Put through food processor
Roll into balls - chill in fridge
Dip into Chocolate Melts and put on baking paper to set - that's if you haven't eaten it all by now!
You can use White, Ordinary or Dark Chocolate, or White, Dark or Ordinary Tams. Your choice!!
They are really, really nice, and very easy to make!
Jeanne
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....Printer ran out of ink when I was printing off the forms for BDM! Yay! So then I decided to ring them, the CSR I got was the one who had replied to me and sent the forms! What were the odds of that!
He did it all on the phone for me! So I'm a happy Chappy again! No more rantsies!
Thanks again for the tip KHP! 🌺
Jeanne
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This is probably a stupid question from this newcomer -- but is there any way of identifying the area a birth took place from the information supplied on the New Zealand BDM site please?
Although I can see that parent's given names are provided - which is really helpful - identifying potential siblings can be a bit hit or miss, unless there is a clue as to the area of birth. I cannot see that at the moment.
(I am currently looking at the wife of George Arthur Butler - Mary McLaren Palmer, b 1892 - and she has 15 potential siblings! Phew - I feel a headache coming on!)
Many thanks
Pennines
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There is nothing on NZBDM's to indicate where a birth occured
Make that 16 ;D ;D
1884/16198 Palmer Ellen Jane Jessie William
1886/4236 Palmer William Robert Jessie William
1886/15725 Palmer Jessie Victoria Jessie William
1888/4257 Palmer Herbert Edwin Jessie William
1889/16194 Palmer Mabel Bernice Jessie William
1891/6511 Palmer Clement Charles Jessie William
1892/17222 Palmer Mary McLaren Jessie William
1896/18152 Palmer Jessie Evelyn Jessie William
1898/13128 Palmer Una Coralie Jessie William
1899/11830 Palmer Henry Victor Jessie William
1901/6275 Palmer Albertina Decima Madeline Jessie William
1902/12120 Palmer Rosalie Silvia May Jessie William
1903/7084 Palmer Norman Leslie Jessie William
1905/1502 Palmer Ida Constance Mildred Jessie William
1906/23920 Palmer Emmeline Enid Diana Jessie William
1909/8624 Palmer Claribel Margory Hazel Jessie William
Cheers Janette
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Hi Janette -- thank you again, I am keeping you busy -- yes I was counting Mary Mclaren Palmer as the person -- with 15 potential siblings -- 16 children in all.
I am not sure though, that they are all one family -- there is a Jessie Victoria and a Jessie Evelyn - unless the first one died (OR unless they forgot they had already used the name Jessie!)
After all they had used about 37 christian names altogether. They each had at least 2 and some had 3 -- I particularly like Albertina Decima Madeline! Imagine calling out at the door to that child to come in for her meal!
Definitely got a headache now.
Pennines
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Cuppa and a lay down needed ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers Janette
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Hope this helps, the Registration Place.
Registration Place : East Taieri
1884/16198 Palmer Ellen Jane Jessie William
1886/4236 Palmer William Robert Jessie William
1888/4257 Palmer Herbert Edwin Jessie William
1889/16194 Palmer Mabel Bernice Jessie William
1891/6511 Palmer Clement Charles Jessie William
1892/17222 Palmer Mary McLaren Jessie William
1896/18152 Palmer Jessie Evelyn Jessie William
Registration Place : Rangitikei
1886/15725 Palmer Jessie Victoria Jessie William
Registration Place : Otepopo, Otago
1898/13128 Palmer Una Coralie Jessie William
1899/11830 Palmer Henry Victor Jessie William
1901/6275 Palmer Albertina Decima Madeline Jessie William
1902/12120 Palmer Rosalie Silvia May Jessie William
1903/7084 Palmer Norman Leslie Jessie William
1905/1502 Palmer Ida Constance Mildred Jessie William
1906/23920 Palmer Emmeline Enid Diana Jessie William
Registration Place : Hampden, Canterbury
1909/8624 Palmer Claribel Margory Hazel Jessie William
Cheers
KHP
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Thank you so much KHP -- that is really helpful -- but how do you know that please?
If I can just get a handle on the NZ records I wouldn't need to keep troubling you. The BDM site doesn't supply that information.
I will look at a map to see where these places are in relation to one another before possibly discounting 2 of them.
Very helpful - thank you again.
Pennines
(I am going out now -- so you will all have some peace!)
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Thank you so much KHP -- that is really helpful -- but how do you know that please?
Pennines
(I am going out now -- so you will all have some peace!)
They were on Ancestry .... but not all birth indexes have the Registration Place, you struck it lucky :D
Cheers
KHP
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Thank you KHP -- another New Zealand lesson learnt! Check both the BDM site AND Ancestry!
I'm coming on!
Pennines
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Whom are you looking for? We do have resources to investigate.
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Janette -- thank you --- you are indeed a helpful friendly bunch.
Smudwhisk (wonder where that user name came from!)
I did try the Family Search link you gave me, thank you --- unfortunately the Will I was looking for -- Edward Fielder Butler, 1914, wasn't included yet. At least I couldn't see it. I was amazed that Family Search had those records on their site.
I have tried all the links I have been given actually -- the Newspaper one is really good -- more user-friendly than the UK one.
xx
Whom are you looking for? We do have resources to investigate.
The family of the chap above
Cheers Janette
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Hello Elan,
I was trying to identify the siblings of Mary McLaren Palmer -- child of Jessie McLaren and William Palmer.
Thanks to help received from friendly and helpful Roots Chatters I now know that the children registered in East Taieri (Mary McLaren Palmer was registered there) and the children registered in Otepopo are likely siblings (one of the latter children was buried with the parents).
For those of you who were following this (and thank-you) - it means that the child oddly named Albertina Decima Madeline - was the couple's 10th child -- hence the name Decima!!
So there were at least 14 children!
It is therefore sorted out, Elan, but many thanks for your interest.
Regards
Pennines
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Janette -- you are right. The 'General Enquiry' was initially about BDMs. The site wasn't working properly (crikey that seems ages ago now - but isn't). I was indeed looking for descendents of Edward Fielder Butler.
I then found them - and started on a wife of his son.
The 'General Enquiry' then moved on to identifying Registration Districts -- suspect Elan may have only seen the beginning of the thread.
Sorry for the confusion -- but they were 'General Enquiries' to start with.
Regards
Pennines
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Registration Place : Hampden, Canterbury
1909/8624 Palmer Claribel Margory Hazel Jessie William
Cheers
KHP
What is the source for Hampden Canterbury ?
The Hampden I know is south of the Waitaki and south of Oamaru ie North Otago.
From memory it is part of the Otepopo Presbyterian Parish - the Area surrounding Herbert and Hampden. Otepopo is the original name for Herbert. (Though apparently not known to A W Reed or Peter Dowling Place Names of NZ (2010), it must have been known to A H Reed.) Otepopo remains as the name for the Cemetery and the Otepopo School was only closed by Anne Tolley in 2010 - Article in ODT Sat, 25 Sep 2010 - http://www.odt.co.nz/regions/north-otago/128124/otepopo-school-closes-after-146-years
Signal
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Hope this helps, the Registration Place.
Registration Place : East Taieri
1884/16198 Palmer Ellen Jane Jessie William
1886/4236 Palmer William Robert Jessie William
1888/4257 Palmer Herbert Edwin Jessie William
1889/16194 Palmer Mabel Bernice Jessie William
1891/6511 Palmer Clement Charles Jessie William
1892/17222 Palmer Mary McLaren Jessie William
1896/18152 Palmer Jessie Evelyn Jessie William
Registration Place : Rangitikei
1886/15725 Palmer Jessie Victoria Jessie William
Registration Place : Otepopo, Otago
1898/13128 Palmer Una Coralie Jessie William
1899/11830 Palmer Henry Victor Jessie William
1901/6275 Palmer Albertina Decima Madeline Jessie William
1902/12120 Palmer Rosalie Silvia May Jessie William
1903/7084 Palmer Norman Leslie Jessie William
1905/1502 Palmer Ida Constance Mildred Jessie William
1906/23920 Palmer Emmeline Enid Diana Jessie William
Registration Place : Hampden, Canterbury
1909/8624 Palmer Claribel Margory Hazel Jessie William
Cheers
KHP
I think Jessie is not part of this family. If she were, then Albertina would be eleven ( that's beyond my fading Latin memory) She would also have been born the same year as William and in a brief sojurn of her mother to the North Island.
Signal
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Hi SignalHill,
Thank you so very much.
I had come to the same conclusion but it is SO reassuring that someone else thinks the same.
I wasn't sure about the final Registration place of the last child -- so just based my assumption on a 'balance of probability' basis --- the names of that last child 'Claribel Margory Hazel', being equally as 'fancy' as the names of the other children!
No simple, boring single names will do for these particular parents.
They really went to town on the naming didn't they --- it must have taken a full 9 months for them to decide which names to use for the expected child!
(I keep laughing about this.)
many thanks again
Pennines
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Have you noticed the names got more "fancy" as the numbers increased :o :o :D :D :D :D
Cheers Janette
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I there from Hamilton NZ, did you say you wanted to know how he came here, had a quick look and do not think anyone has given you this but Family Search also do some passenger lists to NZ.
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1609792
Hope that helps.
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On Otepopo
I have been sifting on Papers Past http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz looking for Otepopo + Palmer in Otago Newspapers
Here is one hit (with OCR mostly corrected)
FROM OTEPOPO.
When the train moves out along the northern line
From Otepopo far past Oamaru—
When the shadows deepen at the day's decline.
We are thinking often, dearest one, of you.
There are sable pines upon the Double Hill.
Ah, many lowly mounds are silent there!
When wind and rain the sable night doth fill,
Our thoughts will turn to them with sole-run prayer.
There is gusty rain upon the bending gorse,
The cattle shiver by the milking-shed;
Among the trees we hear the tempest's force:
The little ones are lying snug abed.
When the train moves out along the northern line,
When the tempest deepens at the shut of day,
We are often thinking, dear, of thee ar.d thine,
Past Oamaru and Timaru, away
Beneath the rugged moun tains of the north,
Where wintry tempest sweeps the sheeted hills.
The primrose by the path is peering forth,
But loneliness the waiting spirit fills.
When, the train comes bravely in from Waimotu.
When cheerful faces on the platform crowd.
We are thinking often, dearest one, of you,
When the locomotive whistles shrill and loud.
The furze is fragrant now with golden bloom.
The cattle munch the sprouting grass again;
Your bed is waiting in the little room.
And, just as- they were left, your things remain;
And grandpa talks of little Poll at times,
And little Elsie, far along the line;
When the engine slowly from the tunnel climbs
You are often in your father's thoughts and mine.
Charles Oscar Palmer.
source Otago Witness , Issue 2843, 9 September 1908, Page 69
Another Palmer ?
Signal
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Hi Pennines
Here is the death of the eldest daughter, sadly at age 15.
Oamaru Mail, Volume XXV, Issue 7720, 15 January 1900, Page 2
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/
DEATH.
Palmer.—At Otepopo, on the 14th instant,
after a short illness, Ellen Jane, beloved
daughter of Jessie and William Palmer,
aged 15½ years, deeply regretted.
The funeral will leave the residence of
Wm. Kendall at 1 o'clock on Tuesday,
for the Otepopo Cemetery. Friends are kindly
invited to attend.
- little did they know that we would find this invitation 115 years late and on opposite sides of the globe !
Signal
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Hi Pennines & Janette
:o :o :D :D :D :D
I wasn't sure about the final Registration place of the last child -- so just based my assumption on a 'balance of probability' basis --- the names of that last child 'Claribel Margory Hazel', being equally as 'fancy' as the names of the other children!
No simple, boring single names will do for these particular parents.
They really went to town on the naming didn't they --- it must have taken a full 9 months for them to decide which names to use for the expected child!
(I keep laughing about this.)
Pennines
Mary and Mabel (from an Anglican English backgound ?) were acquiring an education at Otepopo School (inspired by the Scottish ideals transplanted to Otago) which may have lifted the spirits and broadened the horizons of their Parents. That was what many colonists hoped for. Sadly it wasn't so successful for some of the boys.
Signal
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Hi Janette, Bigcous and Signal,
Thank you -- do you know I have had so much fun on this NZ Board with these particular families.
Bigcous - many thanks for the Family Search Link to NZ immigration. At the moment I haven't found the families coming in -- but haven't searched thoroughly as yet.
Signal -- many thanks for the death notice you found -- and for the lovely poem and mention of Charles Oscar Palmer.
Although much of this correspondence has been about the Palmer family - I haven't researched them thoroughly yet. I am actually doing the Butler family -- and 'parking' wives with THEIR parents and siblings onto the Family Tree.
Mary McLaren Palmer was the wife of George Butler --- the person who later added 'Arthur' as a middle name - then understated his age by over 10 years from his marriage onwards!
Signal --- as far as Mary McLaren Palmer (and her 14 siblings) are concerned - their mother was from Scottish stock.
The Butlers also had an enormous family - George Butler seems to be one of 7 children and his father, Edward Fielder Butler was one of at least 12.
This is going to be a very wide tree!
I am sure you will all know this -- but it was new to me --- I found a really interesting website about emigration to New Zealand here;
http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/history-of-immigration
(You will all get a bit of peace now - I go on holiday to Ireland tomorrow for a week! Enjoy the Pennines free break!)
Thank you everyone for all the help, information and fun I have had so far.
Regards Pennines