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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: chr1st1an on Saturday 13 June 15 12:36 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone!
I had given up my search to find William Douthwaite's place of birth...
But today I thought I would give you all the chance to do some research and maybe someone will be lucky and finally solve the mystery.
All I know is this:
William Douthwaite married Mary Alice Lawton (nee Redfern) in SEP qtr. 1947 at Hemsworth district (2b 1728).
William died in DEC qtr. 1952 at Hemsworth district (2b 656), aged 82.
Supossing his age was correct then he would have been born in 1870...
More facts:
- For all I know, he had never married previously to 1947.
- My uncle thinks he was from Neston (near Liverpool).
- I was also told he had a house near Liverpool which Mary Alice inherited.
- Both Mary Alice and William Douthwaite were Jehovah's Witnesses.
Good luck and thank you all!!!
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There are these?
Douthwaite William Edward Jun 1868 W Derby (which is a Liverpool District) Vol 8b Pg 412 actually born 28 April 1868 to Henry & Ruth Douthwaite
or this
Dowthwaite William Noble bapt April 1868 at St. John the Baptist, Toxteth Park, Liverpool to Joseph & Elizabeth Dowthwaite.
Pheno
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Hi Pheno!
Please bear in mind that I don't know if he was actually from the Liverpool area...
As you see, the dates of birth you've provided don't quite fit with the rest of information (I had the same problem too). ???
Maybe if we knew William's father name from the marriage registry it would help.
Thanks anyway!
:)
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Maybe if we knew William's father name from the marriage registry it would help.
For a 1947 marriage you will need to buy the certificate ;)
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Rosie is correct, if you want to find positive information on William, obtaining his marriage 1947 certificate for his fathers name, it is an important first step and his age at marriage gained from himself. Death age, can be wrong (out a few years) on death certificates because the age information comes from an informant ! who may not know or have access to exact records of his age or just guess from limited knowledge they know of the deceased. (Word of mouth info gained from William as an old man with a poor memory before death or not exactly so sure relative)
Likely a register office wedding by 1947
Once you have William's dads name you can start refining your search of the censuses for the family of William 1871c to 1911c
There is the faint possibility that the marriage 1947 of a William, may be another much younger William (hence need the 1947 marriage certificate for his age) being a different William to the death William age 82 in 1952 considering that William would be aged 77 at marriage 1947
Its all to vague, without census info post 1911 to 1952 like we have pre 1911 .
Most parish registers are held at the church by 1947/1952 just a few held in archives
There could be service forces records, medical or tax records or newspapers of William or electoral registers in libraries being that late in archives 1940/50's or if you can find his national insurance, tax or medical numbers, pension OAP number or post WW2 ration book numbers
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Administration for William in 1953
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fh0/
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Thank you Rosie! That was a great link!!! :)
I would like to ask 2 questions related to it, because I am not familiar with wills:
1. I searched for Mary Alice Douthwaite's will and found it (and dates and place of death match the ones I knew). But what does "Probate Liverpool" mean?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fh0/
If you introduce the surname "Douthwaite" and the year 1967 you can also find Mary Alice's will.
2. Would a person who has died without making a testament appear on that web-page?
Thanks!
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Hi
He was buried, would there be a gravestone with any additional info ?
William Douthwaite aged 82 of 28 Engine Lane, Shafton was buried 29 October 1952 at Felkirk, St Peter with Brierley, St Paul.
Other info: Jehovahs Witness ~ not known who performed the ceremony.
claire
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Probate means there was a will - Liverpool was the Probate Office that dealt with it.
The person who has been granted probate is not necessarily a benefactor in the will. Only apply for a copy if you see the words Probate or Administration with will (the admin/grant will only show what is on the probate calendar.)
If no will has been left then an application for administration can be made which is probably what happened with William.
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If as you think ? William had never married till 1947 then he could be on the 1911 census, age 41 as a single man and I don't think there will be many to narrow down a search. It could give you a start as likely candidate('s) to trace back to a possible area location of birth.
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Following your kind suggestion, these are all the William Douthwaite(s) I can find in the 1911 census with an approximate age of 41... (attached pdf)
I request help to check this list and confirm or eliminate each "candidate".
Thank you all!!!
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Was all the William's in your list unmarried ? aged approx 40
Well, if you can find your William's occupation before he retired from a relative may help or as members advised (when your funding allows.)- the 1947 marriage certificate info.
Going by your list the Liverpool birth 1870 and your mention of Liverpool. Working the railway as a fireman steamer, (Tender) would explain why he moved locations and may have not married as always on the move. (Known as fire tender floaters that would go anywhere needed as & when)
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FindMyPast has a record in Merchant seaman collection for William Douthwaite born abt 1869 Liverpool.
He was a fireman on the Cassia - vessel official number 86360 registered at Newport - from 30 Jul 1909 to 17 Oct 1909. Vessel owned by Mawson and Co of Cardiff
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FindMyPast also has the WW1 service record of the William Douthwaite who was a wireman for the Post Office in civilian life. He married Ellen Margaret Marsh in 1902 and had two children listed on his service record.
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Good morning! :)
Was all the William's in your list unmarried ? aged approx 40
I don't know. ???
Since I don't have access to the different 1911 census, that is why I requested help to go through the list checking if they were married or single (to reduce the list)...
One of them I know for sure he was single: the one born in 1869 at St Mary Beverly who was a bank accountant (#4 on the list). He was living with his mother Jane who was 70.
FindMyPast also has the WW1 service record of the William Douthwaite who was a wireman for the Post Office in civilian life. He married Ellen Margaret Marsh in 1902 and had two children listed on his service record.
#14 on my list who was a "Foreman Wireman" can be found in the 1901 Cheshire census living at Birkenhead as a boarder. But I don't know if in 1911 he was single or married?
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see my earlier post: the wireman married in 1902, so he was married by 1911.
How do you know your William was not married previous to the 1947 marriage? Sending for marriage cert would also tell you if he was a widower or single when he married.
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Hi!
By word of mouth we know he was an unmarried man...
If he lied to the whole family that is another story, don't you think? ;)
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Since I don't have access to the different 1911 census, that is why I requested help to go through the list checking if they were married or single (to reduce the list)...
We are not allowed to do 1911 lookups so really need to know who his father was so we can look for him earlier then maybe we can fill in some gaps. The only way really is the marriage certificate as anything else we look at is only guesswork.
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The William Douthwaite (wireman b abt 1874) is possibly on the 1881 census as William P Douthwaite, the 7 year old son of Hannah Douthwaite (widow). She is a lodger with the Nuttall family in Liverpool. He has a sister Mary E Douthwaite born abt 1865.
Now a curious thing, searching for Mary and mother Hannah on 1871 census, brings up a Mary Elizabeth with mother Hannah. Mary correct age born Liverpool, Hannah correct age born in Melmerby, Cumberland on both censuses. But Hannah is already a widow in 1871, so who is William's father? Mr Douthwaite, if he existed, had already died by 1871 if the census entry is correct.
FindMyPast has marriage record of this William, confirms the same one as the service record (occ wireman married in 1902). He says his father was George Douthwaite (deceased) father's occupation: Policeman. Marriage took place in Birkenhead. There is a death of an Ellen M Dowthwaite in Birkenhead district in 1927 age 54 - this age matches her age (30) at marriage.
A 90 year old William Douthwaite died in Birkenhead district in 1962. May be this William, age is close, agian depends on the informant's knowledge.
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FindMyPast has transcription of a marriage of a Mary Elizabeth Douthwaite on 14 Feb 1897 in Liverpool. Bride's age 32. Her father is Joseph Douthwaite. No occupation listed on transcript. Age is correct for her to be the sister on the 1871 / 1881 censuses.
Mary Elizabeth Douthwaite was baptised 12 Feb 1865 at St Augustine's Everton, parents Joseph (policeman) and Hannah.
I've found Joseph Douthwaite in 1861, with Hannah, born Melmerby Cumberland. He is a police officer and has two other police officers lodging with him. No children, so possibly recently married. Joseph born in Dacre Cumberland.
So apart from anomaly with William's father, it is looking like this family checks out through censuses, and if the death in Birkenhead is correct, this William is eliminated as the William who married in 1947.
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Splendid research, Lizzie!!!
I agree with you... the wireman is out! (#14)
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I called at Barnsley archives and local studies library to see if there was a obituary in the local newspaper of William Oct 1952 but there was not one, also the is no records showing on William Douthwaite on there computer.
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FindMyPast has a record in Merchant seaman collection for William Douthwaite born abt 1869 Liverpool.
He was a fireman on the Cassia - vessel official number 86360 registered at Newport - from 30 Jul 1909 to 17 Oct 1909. Vessel owned by Mawson and Co of Cardiff
Going back to this information, I guess this is the same William Douthwaite of my list (#5)...
He states his occupation as "Fireman Steamer Ludworth".
Would "Steamer" mean a kind of vessel or ship, and "Ludworth" the name of the ship he worked on?
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Here is another lead I found some time ago:
There was a Robert William Douthwaite in the 1871 Lancashire census (he is not on my list).
Can someone find out what became of him?
He was born around 1870 in Liverpool. His parents were Joseph and Elizabeth.
They were living at West Derby (Liverpool) and his father's occupation was "house owner".
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There are these
Douthwaite William Edward Jun 1868 W Derby (which is a Liverpool District) Vol 8b Pg 412 actually born 28 April 1868 to Henry & Ruth Douthwaite
and
Dowthwaite William Noble bapt April 1868 at St. John the Baptist, Toxteth Park, Liverpool to Joseph & Elizabeth Dowthwaite.
Pheno
(The second one found by Pheno must be the same one I am refering to on my previous post)
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Only one William single (no 4 in your list) 1910 (Can't talk on here about 1911c) and would be living the same name mother in 1910 as baptism in link
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NFP8-RJT
Again you need the marriage certificate 1947 to confirm fathers name and William b 1870 (from burial ) retired from an occupation of ?- If a Bachelor or Widower and his age at marriage
I checked St Peter's church Felkirk for a marriage June to Sept 1947 and found nothing ! so most likely married in a register office.
You'll find him signal age 32 occupation 'Account Bank' as a visitor with an Annie Douthwaite age 27 signal also born Beverley as a visitor Bournemouth 1901 census
If you are abled bodied to be able to visit your local library, they will have free access to 'Free Ancestry library edition' access on public computer to view the 1911 census, all census years also most parish registers for that area and expert staff to help you navigate the Ancestry website if needed.
:)
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Thank you dobfarm!!!
Since I live in Spain I don't have access to the 'Free Ancestry library edition'. :'(
Your initial suggestion of looking for an unmarried William Douthwaite of 40 years aprox. was brilliant!!! As you say, it leaves just one "suspect" or "candidate".
I am now focusing on him: I want to know more about his parents, his siblings, where did they all come from and lived, etc., because it still puzzles me how did a Beverley man have a property in Liverpool... :o
Can anyone please check the Yorkshire 1881 Census, so as to find all members of the household?
William Douthwaite (head), Jane Douthwaite (wife), William Douthwaite (12 year old son) and other siblings...
Thank you!!!
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I think EEC countries are covered by Ancestry free library edition -check or ask your library in Spain, may have to set the language to English though.
1881 c is on family search and 1871 c
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The 1871 census has William snr vet surgeon age 31 b Skirlaugh, Yorks, wife Jane also 31 b Arram, Yorks, son Henry Lonsborough Douthwaite 3, William 2 and Jane Elizabeth 1, all children born Beverley. Lonsborough as middle name could give a clue as to Jane's maiden name.
1881 has 6 more children, Henry not at home. Youngest son (7th) called Septimus aged 10 months. There is a younger sister Annie which would match the Annie in 1901 in Bournemouth.
By 1891 Jane is a widow (living on own means) , William and 3 younger siblings living with mother. William is a banker's clerk.
But there is a William dying in Beverley in 1923 age 54. Probate to Henry Lonsborough Douthwaite dispensing chemist who is definitely his brother. So it looks like this one is a dead end.
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But there is a William dying in Beverley in 1923 age 54. Probate to Henry Lonsborough Douthwaite dispensing chemist who is definitely his brother. So it looks like this one is a dead end.
You are absolutely right!
William Douthwaite (#4 on my list) died on the 15 of October of 1923 (aged 54)... what a dissapointment! :(
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So that means your William could have a widower in 1947 but that is 2 off your list, so keep at it eliminating.
Next suggestion! but you will need your maths & calculator-check deaths of William in 'free bmd' or national burials website 'find my past' (Free stuff) post 1911 by age at death to calculate date of birth circa 1870 and compare against your 1911 census list. Could be a long job.
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The ones I have eliminated from my list on the basis that they died before 1947 (see pdf attached previously) are:
#5 (the bank accountant) who died in 1923,
#11 (the under treasurer of Gray's Inn) who died in 1942,
#12 (the farmer born in Aketon) who died in 1945,
#13 (who was born at Middlesbrough) who died in 1912, and
#14 (the wireman) who died in 1962 at Birkenhead
Can anyone please check the two farmers from Westmoreland?
(They are listed #10 and #11 respectively)
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What left from your list ! without a burial : you'll need to find the one who died after his wife.
Got one but don't know which one ?
William Douthwaite Dec Qtr 1954 aged 84 Westmorland 1b 524 (from freebmd website)
Can't find the other
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William Douthwaite Greenwich March Qtr 1917 aged 47 (Musican ?)
John W Douthwaite Banbury (Oxfordshire) Sept Qtr 1927 aged 57 ( Farmer Crakerhall birth)
George W Douthwaite Halifax Qtr Dec 1941 aged 73 (Baker)
William Douthwaite Durham West Qtr June 1940 age 63 (Coalminer ? or Caulker ?)
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Going by the 1881 census on family search, there is a wide variety of fathers names, with your list of William burials/deaths, when you do obtain the 1947 marriage certificate one day with William's dad first name on, with his age then that may differ to the 1952 burial age and more accurate as it came from William himself. You should be able to find the correct William or refine to just a couple of entries on the 1881c and there is little more we can help with on this search being having to work all over the place, blind without the fathers name being so many different fathers first names in the census when it can be obtained. :)
One possibility below
This could be William's dad
http://picturesheffield.com/frontend.php?keywords=Ref_No_increment;EQUALS;y04974&pos=1&action=zoom&id=91193
Deaths Mar 1906
Douthwaite William 54 Ecclesall (Sheffield) B. 9c 219
Monckton main colliery situated between Royston, Felkirk and Shafton
William Douthwaite in link
This William was a bank manager see link 3
(Not William Douthwaite of Beverley accountant bank as he died 1923)
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/191b9537-8320-43fe-9b4c-94785db3b2c4
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/d13a0845-00b4-4c94-b48f-3c8d4f3ead48
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This is how my list is so far...
(see pdf attached)
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Deaths Dec 1945
Douthwaite William T 74 Wharfedale 9a 157
I would say this could be the other Westmorland farmer, Yorkshire upper river Wharfe starts it life at Buckden not that far from Westmorland border at Dent in Yorkshire see map link. Probable hill land farmer moved down the Wharfedale valley in his life time.
http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/17480
The Durham coalminer hewer looks likely moved south to Monckton pit Felkirk Barnsley or other coalmines near
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The first two on my list, I would eliminate since there are 3 death registries in Durham or nearabouts (so at least 2 are possibly them):
- William C Douthwaite b. around 1867, who died at S. Shields Mar 1950 (83),
- William Douthwaite b. around 1868, who died at Middlesbro Sep 1912 (44), and
- William Douthwaite b. around 1868, who died at S. Shields Dec 1935 (67)
What's left?: the farmer (#10) and the Pipe fitter (#8)... and this Pipe fitter named John William Douthwaite born in Redcar, Yorkshire around 1870 I cannot locate his death, and therefore looks a very promising candidate! :o
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. and this Pipe fitter named John William Douthwaite born in Redcar, Yorkshire around 1870 I cannot locate his death, and therefore looks a very promising candidate! :o
Maybe you can't find his death as he appears to be in America in 1920 :-\
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MJV5-VXW
This entry seems to tie in with a married John William Douthwaite bn Redcar occ Pipe Fitter
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Rosie, many congratulations!!!
What a fantastic research!...
I want to add the following information I've found:
John William Douthwaite married Hannah Mary Robinson, Mar 1901, at Guisbro' district (9d 693), which includes the city/town of Redcar.
Is there any way of checking a FreeBMD in the United States to see if he died in America?
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Have you tried familysearch it is free to view ;D
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F8HL-1CK
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Wouldn't getting that marriage certificate, which would have occupations of groom and father on it, go a very long way to sorting all this out? It did for me....
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Wouldn't getting that marriage certificate, which would have occupations of groom and father on it, go a very long way to sorting all this out? It did for me....
I have to agree with you, there are far too many maybe's with this search.
He could also be indexed as Dowthwaite ::)
Still at least I have eliminated the Redcar one he died in 1940
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I wonder where in Yorkshire the caulker lived in 1910
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The marriage cert will give both his fathers and William's occupations.
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So it seems all William Douthwaite(s) of my list have been discarded...
There is one more to check out (it seems that nobody can find him either) and now he looks to me the most promising of all...
William Douthwaite born in 1870 at Liverpool
He appears as "Robert William Douthwaite" in the 1871 Lancashire census (he is not on my list).
So he was possibly born around 1870. His parents were Joseph and Elizabeth.
They were living at West Derby (Liverpool) and his father's occupation was "house owner".
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As with the later in life, John William who died in the USA, the time period 1947 to 1952 is not a period area we are use to helping with, as most family researchers usually manage to get back to the 1911c with their own family knowledge gained from their family and BMD certs.
Just a couple of examples,
WW1 and WW2 also easier travel in the 20th century, people moved around more. Troops brought over in Europe WW1 and WW2 from the commonwealth countries and the USA, or say a man doing service repair for a international company working in England met a lass, they married, he stayed here as did a few USA troops in WW2.
To the far extreme -
Say he was the son of a big time well known named published criminal or murder or William was a bigamist -answer:- He changed his name.
https://www.gov.uk/change-name-deed-poll/overview
There are endless possibilities.
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There is one more to check out (it seems that nobody can find him either) and now he looks to me the most promising of all...
William Douthwaite born in 1870 at Liverpool
He appears as "Robert William Douthwaite" in the 1871 Lancashire census (he is not on my list).
In 1881 the family are Dowthwaite
He is not Robert W but Robert M in 1871 ;)
Robert Middleton Dowthwaite
Baptism 8 May 1870
St. Catherine's, Edge-Hill, Lancashire
Father Joseph Dowthwaite
Mother Elizabeth
Possibly his death
June qtr 1916
Dowthwaite Robert M age 46
Birkenhead 8a 668
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Douthwaite William Edward Jun 1868 W Derby (which is a Liverpool District) Vol 8b Pg 412 actually born 28 April 1868 to Henry & Ruth Douthwaite
or this one
Dowthwaite William Noble bapt April 1868 at St. John the Baptist, Toxteth Park, Liverpool to Joseph & Elizabeth Dowthwaite.
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Douthwaite William Edward Jun 1868 W Derby (which is a Liverpool District) Vol 8b Pg 412 actually born 28 April 1868 to Henry & Ruth Douthwaite
or this one
Dowthwaite William Noble bapt April 1868 at St. John the Baptist, Toxteth Park, Liverpool to Joseph & Elizabeth Dowthwaite.
Have you found either of them on later census
William Noble is brother of Robert Middleton Dowthwaite ::)
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Marriage of parents probably:
Joseph Dowthwaite (occ merchat) married Elizabeth Noble at Liverpool, St Simon on 31 Jul 1858
Groom's father's name: John Dowthwaite - labourer
Bride's father's Name: William Noble - farmer
witnesses: R Palmer and John Wilderson (?) he has bad handwriting!
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I think as we have proved by spending considerable time on this that it is like looking for a needle in a haystack.
As we said at the beginning you really need the marriage certificate.
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Baptism: 12 Apr 1868 St John the Baptist, Toxteth, Lancashire, England
William Noble Dowthwaite - [Child] of Joseph Dowthwaite & Elizabeth
Abode 32 Northumberland Street
Occupation Greengrocer
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
On the webpage that comes up, 3rd line down it says --- "You may Click "
Click it on the webpage in link
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I don't know if you have looked at this one but a tree on ancestry has him dying in Hemsworth 1952
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZGZ-D8B
I suspect it is another Ancestry tree error ::)
Death March qtr 1872
Douthwaite William age 2
Guisbro' 9d 351
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Hi
He was buried, would there be a gravestone with any additional info ?
William Douthwaite aged 82 of 28 Engine Lane, Shafton was buried 29 October 1952 at Felkirk, St Peter with Brierley, St Paul.
Other info: Jehovahs Witness ~ not known who performed the ceremony.
claire
For ref. From Felkirk parish register burial page :-
William's grave number in Felkirk church graveyard or cemetery is either S - 176 or S I -76
Hard the read the 1 or I ( i )
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Baptism: 12 Apr 1868 St John the Baptist, Toxteth, Lancashire, England
William Noble Dowthwaite - [Child] of Joseph Dowthwaite & Elizabeth
Abode 32 Northumberland Street
Occupation Greengrocer
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
We had William Noble Dowthwaite back in reply number 1.
Hadn't we ruled him out, or is he back as a contender?
There is an earlier baptism for a William to Joseph and Elizabeth
Baptism: 1 Dec 1861 St John the Baptist, Toxteth, Lancashire, England
William Henry Dowthwaite - [Child] of Joseph Dowthwaite & Elizabeth
Abode: Northumberland St.
Occupation: Provision Dealer
On the 1871 census, there is a 9 year old William with Joseph and Elizabeth, not a 3 year old one.
That doesn't make sense.
In 1861 Joseph and Elizabeth are living at 32 Northumberland Street, he is a provision dealer. They have a 1 year old daughter Hannah. Joseph is born in Seburgham, Elizabeth in Penrith (Cumberland).
Although Joseph later changes to a house owner or proprieter, the couple's places of birth are consistent in later censuses, so I'm sure I have the right Joseph and Elizabeth.
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I can't find any BMD records at all for William Noble Dow(u)thwaite, but there is a death for Wiiliam H Dowthwaite reg West Derby in 1929, and a probate record for William Henry Dowthwaite of Huntley Road, Liverpool who died 30 May 1929. Probate to Joseph Hedley Dowthwaite and Hannah Elizabeth Dowthwaite spinster. Hannah Elizabeth is the older sister and Joseph Hedley his younger brother, bapt 29 Aug 1875.
So who was William Noble Dowthwaite - no birth record, no death record, does not appear on 1871 census, but the 1861 William H(enry) does, who we would expect to have died before William Noble's birth. Was this a second baptism of a 7 year old William Henry to give him another middle name (mother's maiden name).
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Its been advised a few times, though its is not for us say really ! but in the case ? I can't see any other option, the fathers name is needed to breakdown the number of possible William's, the option of obtaining the marriage certificate 1947 ??? to improves the chances and even if there was only two William's in the list with different fathers names to confirm a sense of reality in to the equation. Otherwise its not a case of the needle in the haystack but which haystack on what farm to start looking in to confirm anything.
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I agree, I think we've now eliminated all the possible Williams within the target birth year range.
The marriage certificate has to be the next step.
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Another avenue.
If some member(s) on here has entry to British 20th century newspapers with a search engine to see if any William pops up around Barnsley/Wakefield/Pontefract area, assume he retired 1933 to 1938 and WW1 plus local news. (He'd be a bit old for WW2 stuff but one never knows what will turn up)
Seeing this is turning into a group challenge because it there !!!! unsolved, I'll try and find any gravestone at Felkirk (I hold little hope though ! as his wife sounds like she buzzed off to live with her son in Worcestershire after William died, going by the Will index but there again if William's family was from around Barnsley or buried with a first wife('s) in that area ?) . Grave stones in that time period 1940/60 sometimes gave the birth date ?
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Can anyone check this guy out on the census years
Births Sep 1871
Pontefract
Douthwaite - William Thomas
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Baptism
William Thomas bapt. 13 Aug 1871 Featherstone, All Saints. Parents: John and Hannah Douthwaite
claire
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Hi
Found him in all census, marries an Elizabeth Robinson 1906, possible death for him as William T Douthwaite Dec. Qtr 1945 Wharfedale aged 74.
claire
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Hi Claire,
Though the is no record of William Thomas Douthwaite birth 1872 ish in the GRO index for around Harrogate and Wetherby (My actual granddad born 1868 was never recorded as his birth but was baptised)
He is on the 1901 and 1911 censuses birthplace Seaton Ross near Selby but lived in Wetherby in Whafedale and he's the one for the 1945 death Wharfedale age 74
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William Thomas bapt. 13 Aug 1871 Featherstone, All Saints. Parents: John and Hannah Douthwaite
Births Sep 1871
Pontefract
Douthwaite - William Thomas
No death year or burial can be found for William Thomas Douthwaite baptised Featherstone as infant or adult except only one which seems to fit William Douthwaite age 82 - 1952 Felkirk of Hemsworth
Featherstone is 7 miles north of Shafton/Felkirk
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Hi chr1st1an
You last posted on this thread on Saturday though I notice that you have been back on rootschat since, the last time being 22.06 BST yesterday.
Are you no longer interested in this topic as you don't appear to be acknowledging the work that is being done. :-\
Rosie :)
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Hi Rossie, hi all!
On the contrary, I'm following with extreme interest this research!...
I check daily the progress, but since I cannot add any new information yet, that's the reason I haven't written any more.
"Dobfarm" has found a very promissing information!!!
If I undestood correctly, this William Thomas Douthwaite could be found in every census, what was his occupation?
Thank you all!!! :)
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Hi
I'm still baffled! ??? :( there was 2 William Thomas Douthwaite.
One William Thomas Douthwaite born circa 1872 on the census birth place Seaton ross (Selby) living Wetherby Wharfdale in censuses post 1871c and a William Thomas Douthwaite death 1954 Warfedale also no birth of him in the GRO 1872
The other William Thomas Douthwaite was a definite registered birth 1871 Pontefract and baptised in Featherstone near Hemsworth but there seems no records of this William Thomas Douthwaite of Featherstone in the censuses or his mother and father from his baptism John and Hannah Douthwaite
I checked to see if the was a a gravestone in Felkirk church yard, I checked by year of burials and 1952 - There was no William Douthwaite headstone, though he could be buried with another earlier wife who was buried years before, but the graveyard is too big to do a blanket search of all the gravestones and the headstones in general told only basic info age at death. (Of no use of help to find who William was ?)
There is a grave register and plot map for Felkirk register in West Yorkshire archives but some dumb clerk stuck a 'not to be seen for a (Victorian) 100 year rule' (Same as rules on censuses post 1911c ) on the grave registers
??? Scream
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Is there really no way you can simply order that certificate? It'd go a long way to helping / solving all this!
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On the contrary, I'm following with extreme interest this research!...
I check daily the progress, but since I cannot add any new information yet, that's the reason I haven't written any more.
I am pleased you are still following the post.
It is better if you respond to our posts rather than just watching though. I stopped looking when you failed to reply to my post about census as both 1871 and 1881 are available on familysearch and I did not want to spend time looking for what you already had. ???
I think for now I will leave dobfarm to sort out the 2 William Thomas's ;D
Rosie :)
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Thank you Rosie! :)
It still puzzles me how did a Yorkshire man (I'm thinking of William Thomas baptized in Featherstone) end up with a property in Liverpool? ???
(Supposing he WAS the "mysterious William"...)
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Thank you Rosie! :)
It still puzzles me how did a Yorkshire man (I'm thinking of William Thomas baptized in Featherstone) end up with a property in Liverpool? ???
(Supposing he WAS the "mysterious William"...)
People did move ;D
And I have to agree with Threlfall Yorky - buy the certificate. You can't always get something for nothing :o
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On the contrary, I'm following with extreme interest this research!...
I check daily the progress, but since I cannot add any new information yet, that's the reason I haven't written any more.
I am pleased you are still following the post.
It is better if you respond to our posts rather than just watching though. I stopped looking when you failed to reply to my post about census as both 1871 and 1881 are available on familysearch and I did not want to spend time looking for what you already had. ???
I think for now I will leave dobfarm to sort out the 2 William Thomas's ;D
Rosie :)
I've done all I can off line and on, but as it seems the marriage 1947 must have been a register office wedding (No parish register info of it) there is only one way to obtain the info.
We have jointly pulled together using our resources but you need to use your own resources if they are there to be had (Marriage cert 1947) ? if you want a result otherwise - shelf the problem.
As the Dragons say on the TV -I'm out. ::)
Ps, Bumble B is one of the best top ancestry researchers there is over many years, heed her advice.
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I think that you have exhausted us and our resources trying to find the information without buying the certificate. I suggested on post 3 that you get it, marriages around that time are rarely online and as has been said could also be register office.
Please let us know if you do buy it what information it holds. After all of us spending so much of our time looking for you it would be nice to know.
Rosie
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If you do buy the Certificate, get it from the GRO, not one of the commercial services, they will be more expensive
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Link to FAQs
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/most_customers_want_to_know.asp
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Thank you guys!!! :D
I will let you know if I get the marriage certificate...
(please don't research any more on my behalf, you've done a tremendous work!)
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Before I leave this thread, I still think William could have been a soldier from the old empire colonies or US after WW1 who stayed here or may have had relatives here, but born overseas himself or if say his dad was in India in the army or other jobs out there. ie; like Harry Webb's dad worked in India to help build railways, (Cliff Richard)
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...and ... PLEASE LET US ALL KNOW, on here, if/when you get the certificate!
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I forgot to say 28, Engine lane, Shafton is the old railway house at the old 'Grimethorpe Halt' railway station,
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Hi guys! :D
I have new and very interesting information about the mysterious William!!!...
I haven't the time now to explain all the details but I would recommend all of you who are interested to check this post this afternoon...
The mystery is close to being solved!!! :o
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Hello and many thanks to all who have collaborated in this research; without you this mystery would never have been solved!
Do you remember there was only 2 William Douthwaite(s) left on my list?
They were: the Farmer (#10) and the Pipe fitter (#8)...
Rosie found out that the Pipe fitter from Redcar (Yorkshire) had emigrated to the United States of America in 1913 with his wife Hannah Mary Robinson, and had died there in 1940. (Congratulations Rosie!)
We were left with the Farmer; but he was an improbable candidate because he was married. Yet we could not place his death.
Well, it turns out the mysterious William Douthwaite was one of the two farmers born in Westmorland in 1871!
What I have found out this morning from one of my relatives is that he was a farmer, who did work at sometime in Liverpool where he purchased several properties, and that he did marry previously to 1947, but this marriage was never consummated (although he did support his first wife financially over the years).
A happy ending for a difficult research... :)
Now I wonder... who was his mysterious first wife? ;)
Once again, thank you all!!!
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Administration for William in 1953
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fh0/
http://www.jufs.co.uk/images/PROPERTY-PRICES-GRAPH.pdf
Assuming your right about your info as your William who had properties in Liverpool and was a farmer from Westmorland. Are you sure this William who married 1947 and died 1952 is the right death as your William. The William who died 1952 in Shafton left a administration of a modest £1360 being a value today of nearest rounded off at 25 to 1 -per pound = in todays value would be £34.000. A tidy sum but not exactly a life times savings, (maybe including common endowment policies, death policies) and owner of properties for the William of Liverpool bearing in mind his age and assuming mortgages paid off. If the Liverpool/Westmorland William was the same William of the Shafton death 1952, he would surely have owned his home/house in Shafton near Barnsley aswell having least 2 properties with his Liverpool holding and expected to have left an estate value of about £3000 to £5000 minimum plus his Westmorland farming history attributed gain, in his working life time, being he had no family to bring up with expenses !! to dwindle his savings or inherited wealth.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/savings/9308562/Diamond-Jubilee-how-much-was-1-worth-in-1952.html
Summate does not seem to calculate out.
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I assume that this is the farmer born Casterton who married Maggie Jane that you have now claimed as your William. :-\
Interestingly Maggie Jane died in Westmorland in March qtr 1945 and left her own estate of £1824. 6s. 5d.
If it is your William he was very quick to move on from Westmorland, buy houses in Liverpool and married under two years after wife's death and presuming he inherited his wifes estate lost a lot of money ::)
It seems you still have a lot of facts to confirm. As I and many others on here will tell you never believe what you are told by relations always find documentation to back it up.
Rosie
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You are wrongly supposing that he stayed in Westmorland until his wife Maggie Jane died in 1945.
I suppose if the marriage was not consummated they would annul the marriage shortly after 1897 (the date of the wedding). And that "leaves" William 50 years (not 2) to do whatever he did.
I agree with dobfarm that £34.000 is not a fortune by today's standards. Maybe it was above the average; maybe not. In any case that wasn't the point of this research.
And regarding the certificates, my relative has two of them and she has promised to send them to me. ;)
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I suppose if the marriage was not consummated they would annul the marriage shortly after 1897 (the date of the wedding). And that "leaves" William 50 years (not 2) to do whatever he did.
They were still together on the last available online census. Her probate states 'wife of William' ::)
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I'll, check the electoral register 1945 (If they did any in wartime ?) in Lancaster sometime this year ( I go to the lake district in summer boating) in Westmorland and Barnsley/Wakefield archives to see if two William's pop up or not. The Westmorland William a man of means, seems yours but I'm iffy about the Barnsley Shafton as same William -his death being 1952 seems an ordinary working man or local small businessman (Shopkeeper type) from the area who saved a modest bob or two.
It is a point ? as you keep pushing your William owned properties and value of his estate £1360 at death does not support it in 1952 as far to low to own properties plus having no headstone is a give away to his wealth. Adminstration means creditors hacking at his estate of £1360 gross
I would also add, I think this William rented the house 28 Engine lane, Shafton as its value today is £361,795 divide 25 to 1 = the house value 1952 of £14,471 way over £1360 what that William left.
http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/28-engine-lane/shafton/barnsley/s72-8re/20449813
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WILL 1903 Death 1902 aged 70 Hemsworth District
A possible Father of a William
Thomas Douthwaite, of Ackworth Yorkshire, died 17th Dec 1902 Probate Wakefield 29th Jan 1903 to William Douthwaite corn miller and others. Estate value £1261
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar#calendar
From google search
The Rector of Plumstead in 1853 was a William Ackworth, whose ancestors, there can ...... There is a Church there, and priest ; one mill, of sixteen pence. ...... Herbert J. Evans 1877, William Cammage 1878, William Douthwaite 1867, Ellen ..... he went to Pontefract to buy corn, he had to place his hand in the farmer's sack, ...
http://archive.org/stream/parochialhistor00saywgoog/parochialhistor00saywgoog_djvu.txt
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Composite time line of Mary Alice for other researches of this family based on documentation of fact
Mary Alice Redern birth 3rd qtr 1887 Congleton Staffordshire
Joseph Lawton married Mary Alice Redfern 1908 Wolstanton Staffordshire 3rd qtr 1908 Silverdale, St Luke church
Son Lewis S Lawton birth 3rd qtr 1919 Hemsworth - mothers maiden name Redfern
Joseph Lawton age 52 death 1st qtr 1939 Hemsworth
Joseph Lawton Aministration of Lewclif bungalow, Engine lane, Shafton
to Mary Alice Lawton widow 1939
Mrs Mary Alice Lawton widow married William Dothwaite 3rd qtr 1947 Hemsworth
William Duthwaite death 1952 Engine lane Shafton buried Felirk Church yard S-126
William Douthwaite Adminstration 1953 of 28 Engine lane Shafton Yorshire
to Mary Alice Duthwaite widow
Mary Alice Douthwaite of Easton, Blackminster, Evesham death 1966 Admin 1967
to Lewis Sam Lawton
( Easton, Blackminster, Evesham WR11 7TD a 4 bedroomed bungalow in the old Station Railway yard as was the Bungalow in 28, Engine Lane Shafton (Nr Barnsley) old railway Station {'Grimethorpe Halt'] )
~~~~~~~~--------------
Likely William's first wife
Margaret Douthwaite death 1923 aged 56 (est born 1867 ) Barnsley district which also covers Shafton. (Unless she died a spinster ? born Douthwaite)
One Willaim Douthwaite married West Derby 1886 (Just possible if he was born 1867/8) 2 possible wife's Margaret Hale and Margaret Shields in GRO index
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Most likely William's first wife:
Maggie Jane Hindson marriage to William Douthwaite in W. WARD, DEC 1897.
They had no children.
Maggie Jane Douthwaite died WESTMORLAND N., MAR 1945 (aged 77), which matches her birthdate:
Maggie Jane Hindson born at KENDAL, MAR 1868.
In her will:
"MAGGIE JANE DOUTHWAITE of Park View, Clifton, Westmorland (wife of William Douthwaite) died 1 January 1945. Probate Carlisle 14 April to Norman Kirkpatrick post office overseer and Nathan Henry Arnison solicitor. Effects: £1824 6s. 5d."
Norman Kirkpatrick died Newcastle upon Tyne SEP 1954 (45) and his will shows £8388 left to Joseph Hindson Kirkpatrick (among others).
I guess Maggie and William must have been separated for years...
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There is another spelling of Douthwaite- DoWthwaite and a whole new ball game.
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If you check the death registry and the will, you'll see it's spelt Douthwaite.
Don't look for another William...
Mary Alice Douthwaite was my great grandmother and she positively lived in 28 Engine Lane, Shafton.
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In her will:
"MAGGIE JANE DOUTHWAITE of Park View, Clifton, Westmorland (wife of William Douthwaite) died 1 January 1945. Probate Carlisle 14 April to Norman Kirkpatrick post office overseer and Nathan Henry Arnison solicitor. Effects: £1824 6s. 5d."
That is not her will but a copy of the entry in the probate calendar - Norman Kirkpatrick & Nathan Arnison administered the estate and were not necessarily beneficiaries
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar#calendar
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I am curious - how do you know the marriage was not consummated or do you mean he did not have children
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marriage
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NXVW-F7M
Dowthwaite
This William's birth & Probable Baptism
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2XWF-JL1
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NR9X-MS6
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My family thought he was an unmarried man when he married Mary Alice (hearsay);
My relative (which whom we spoke last week) said "Yes, he was married, but never consummated" (hearsay too);
I can't find any children looking in FreeBMD so I suppose they simply separated, Maggie staying in Westmorland and William "going to work at Liverpool" (which again my relative said).
How would one find evidence of the whereabouts of William between 1897 (his first wedding) and 1947 (his second)?
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Easton, Blackminster, Evesham WR11 7TD a 4 bedroomed bungalow in the old Station Railway yard
Would you know the exact address? Thanks!
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Easton, Blackminster, Evesham WR11 7TD a 4 bedroomed bungalow in the old Station Railway yard
Would you know the exact address? Thanks!
That is the Address Easton is the name of the Bungalow
Scroll down the link, till you come to Easton, note:- all the other properties at that post code are named not numbered houses
http://www.zoopla.co.uk/home-values/blackminster/blackminster/
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How would one find evidence of the whereabouts of William between 1897 (his first wedding) and 1947 (his second)?
You can look for him on census in 1901 & 1911.
1921 census will not be released until 2021.
1939 registration is due to be released on FindMyPast in the near future
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If you check the death registry and the will, you'll see it's spelt Douthwaite.
Don't look for another William...
Mary Alice Douthwaite was my great grandmother and she positively lived in 28 Engine Lane, Shafton.
Are you saying you are from the Lawton descendants of Mary Alice.
I wonder if Mary Alice buried William in her first husband Joseph Lawton's grave if it had room to cut funeral expense of William as she would be the grave owner.
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Hi everyone!
I had given up my search to find William Douthwaite's place of birth...
But today I thought I would give you all the chance to do some research and maybe someone will be lucky and finally solve the mystery.
All I know is this:
William Douthwaite married Mary Alice Lawton (nee Redfern) in SEP qtr. 1947 at Hemsworth district (2b 1728).
William died in DEC qtr. 1952 at Hemsworth district (2b 656), aged 82.
Supossing his age was correct then he would have been born in 1870...
More facts:
- For all I know, he had never married previously to 1947.
- My uncle thinks he was from Neston (near Liverpool).
- I was also told he had a house near Liverpool which Mary Alice inherited.
- Both Mary Alice and William Douthwaite were Jehovah's Witnesses.
Good luck and thank you all!!!
"The marriage certifcate 1947 confirms that the William you suggested and the words 'Neston' & (daddy) Richard that's are contained in or on the certificate confirm as the correct William but can not give out any more info because of copywrite.law "
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Great discovery!
On my part, I'm still waiting to receive the marriage and death certificates.
I guess there is no problem (when I get them) to post here the information contained?
Until then I still don't have a clear "picture" of William Douthwaite.
Was he from Westmorland or from Neston?
Was his first wife Maggie Jane Hindson?
Where was he living in 1901 and in 1911?
Was she living with him in those years?
Was his father's name Richard?
What was his mother's name?
Did he have any brothers or sisters?
???
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Marriage certificates don't give mothers names and they do not give place of birth groom.
He resided 1947 at Little Neston at Wirral Cheshire on a farm. (Between the river Mersey and river Dee estuaries & Between Birkenhead and Ellesmere Port) (see a map of the Wirral)
His first marriage gives Richard as his dad, and his first wife lived/died in Westmorland
The census below are the only way to link and confirm
They used both Dowthwaite and Douthwaite surname on records or misspelt by parish clerks/vicars, census recorders at time of writing or miss-transcribed by LDS
Kirkby Lonsdale, Westmorland and Casterton are near same place
There is only one William son of Richard of Casterton in Kirkby Lonsdale born 1870/71
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V557-37S
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XQ6P-R4V
William Douthwaite d 1952 and Joseph Lawton d 1939 are both buried in the same grave S 127 in Felkirk church graveyard
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marriage
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NXVW-F7M
Dowthwaite
This William's birth & Probable Baptism
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2XWF-JL1
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NR9X-MS6
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dobfarm you are a genius!!! :D
What a great amount of information you've gathered!!!
I've never seen anyone here on Rootschat do such a complete research!!!
It's admirable and exemplary!
Thank you so much!!! :)
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William's parents were:
Richard Douthwaite, b. Staveley 1824 and poss. death in Lancaster 1897 (aged 68?)
and
Agnes Scambler, b. Ale (Lancashire) 1834 - d. Clifton 1919 (aged 86?)
they got married in JUN 1865 at Kendal district.
William's older siblings:
Emma Douthwaite, b. Casterton 1866 - d. Lonsdale 1916 (aged 50)
and
Harry Douthwaite, b. Casterton 1868 - d. ?
William's younger siblings:
Thomas Douthwaite, b. Priest Hutton 1873 - d. ?
and
Richard Scambler Douthwaite, b. Priest Hutton - d. Darlington 1916 (aged 40)
(married to Mahala Cape in 1904)
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William's older siblings:
Emma Douthwaite, b. Casterton 1866 - d. Lonsdale 1916 (aged 50)
(never married)
and
Harry Douthwaite, b. Casterton 1868 - d. Thetford, Norfolk 1942 (aged 74)
(married to Jane Airey in 1889; 1 daughter: Jean Airey Douthwaite)
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Can anyone find if Thomas Douthwaite got married and when and where did he die?
Thanks!
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Why don't you try to find the marriage and death for Thomas Douthwaite on FreeBMD - it's free ;D
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Looks like Thomas was a draper's assistant in 1891 living in Lancaster - single, but not surprising he was only 17 or so. Can't find him 1901.
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Why don't you try to find the marriage and death for Thomas Douthwaite on FreeBMD - it's free ;D
How do you think I've found the other brothers and sister? ;)
Thomas is more difficult because there a lots of them (that is why I requested help).
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Using freebmd a possibility ???
Death June qtr 1924
Thomas Douthwaite age 49
Lancaster 8e 956
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He was born in 1873, so that one doesn't "fit" very well...
If someone could find him in the 1901 census that would be wonderful! :)
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Got him in 1901. A draper's manager now and boarding with a family called West who have a 16 year old daughter Sarah, born in Crewe. Residence Monk Coppenhall Cheshire. There is marriage of a Thomas, Nantwich district 1907 Q3, one possible bride is Sarah West. On census he is giving POB as Wharton - close to Priest Hutton. You'll need to find in 1911 yourself, but the trail seems to go on fitting nicely.
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dobfarm you are a genius!!! :D
What a great amount of information you've gathered!!!
I've never seen anyone here on Rootschat do such a complete research!!!
It's admirable and exemplary!
Thank you so much!!! :)
I just happen to be local, we work together, a lot goes on by Email, or PM's behind the scenes, most of the members on the thread are brilliant reasearcher in their own right (Your lucky they joined in), each adding their bit to the sum total, which is the object of rootschat and Bumble B has many years of experience ancestry researching.
:)
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Got him in 1901. ...
On census he is giving POB as Wharton - close to Priest Hutton.
I guess "Wharton" might be Warton which is close to Priest Hutton.
And in the 1901 census age is stated as 25 when it should be 27...
But yes, I think it fits quite well.
Can anyone confirm father's name of Thomas in that marriage to Sarah?
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He was born in 1873, so that one doesn't "fit" very well...
Ages on death certificates are only as accurate as the information the informant has. ;)
According to a newspaper report that one had a son Harold ;)
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Transcript on family search
Thomas Douthwaite married Sarah West 28 Aug 1907, Christchurch Crewe, Cheshire
His father Richard and hers was Arthur. He is 34 years old.
matches with the family he was lodging with in 1901
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It seems Thomas and Sarah Douthwaite had 2 daughters:
Isobel Douthwaite b. 1908 in Nantwich
and
Dorothy F.S. Douthwaite b. 1912 in Nantwich
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Using freebmd a possibility ???
Death June qtr 1924
Thomas Douthwaite age 49
Lancaster 8e 956
This Thomas died 19 June 1924, probate to his widow Lily. So unless sarah died and Thomas remarried a Lily, I'm inclined to think it's the Thomas who married Lily Shearman in 1899
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Using freebmd a possibility ???
Death June qtr 1924
Thomas Douthwaite age 49
Lancaster 8e 956
This Thomas died 19 June 1924, probate to his widow Lily. So unless sarah died and Thomas remarried a Lily, I'm inclined to think it's the Thomas who married Lily Shearman in 1899
I have also discounted him as he had a son Harold who appears to have been born 1900 :)
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It seems Thomas and Sarah Douthwaite had 2 daughters:
Isobel Douthwaite b. 1908 in Nantwich
and
Dorothy F.S. Douthwaite b. 1912 in Nantwich
Isobel was baptised at same church parents married in Crewe on 14 Oct 1908. Abode is 31 Hightown, Crewe. He is a draper - same as 1901. Can't see a marriage for her. there is a death of an Isobel Douthwaite 1995, Pwlleli and Portmadoc, age is about right so perhaps she died a spinster
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Dorothy married Albert F Williams in 1942, Nantwich district. Can't find a death but if it was registered without one or both middle names could be very difficult.
Added
There are several trees on ancestry which include Dorothy,
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Dorothy married Albert F Williams in 1942, Nantwich district.
There are several trees on ancestry which include Dorothy,
This same Dorothy F. S. Williams (nee Douthwaite)??
Amazing! :o
To finish, it would be nice to know the names of sons and daughters of Richard Scambler Douthwaite and his wife Mahala Cape. The dates would be 1905 to 1916. (they got married at Darlington in 1904, and Richard Scambler died in 1916, aged 40).
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Sarah Douthwaite died 1966 you'll find her in Ancestry's index to wills, also Thomas 1965
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To finish, it would be nice to know the names of sons and daughters of Richard Scambler Douthwaite and his wife Mahala Cape. The dates would be 1905 to 1916. (they got married at Darlington in 1904, and Richard Scambler died in 1916, aged 40).
Try Freebmd - Births - Surname Douthwaite mothers maiden name Cape after 1911.
The 1911 census which we cannot do look ups for will give any children before that time ;)
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I've found 6 children born in Darlington between 1904-1916:
John George Douthwaite b. JUN 1904, 10a 33;
Ralph William Dowthwaite b. SEP 1904, 10a 3;
Joseph Henry Douthwaite b. SEP 1905, 10a 27;
Reginald Douthwaite b. MAR 1907, 10a 29;
Agnes M. Douthwaite b. DEC 1910, 10a 9;
Robert W. Douthwaite b. DEC 1910, 10a 36.
...No child has mother's surname Cape after 1911.
Which of these were sons/daughter of Thomas and Mahala?
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The 1911 would show children to this couple - we are not allowed to look it up for you ;)
Have you tried looking for baptisms for them anywhere
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Mahala Douthwaite age 46 remarried 16 Oct 1926 in Miles Platting Wesleyan Chapel, Oldham Road, father Robert Cape a retired inspector
Groom: David Henry Simpson 54, father Richard deceased farmer.
Witnesses: Lily Simpson and REGINALD DOUTHWAITE (a son?)
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As Agnes was the name of Richard's mother, so I would think Agnes M. b Q4 1910 was a strong possibility.
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Have you tried looking for baptisms for them anywhere
What web-pages could I use (free ones) to look up baptisms?
(if you can't say, please send me a PM)
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Mahala's 2nd marriage was witnessed in the presence of the 'authorised person for the said chapel' his name H Taylor Cape, Mahala had a brother named Herbert Taylor Cape born 1883 in Darleston, Staffordshire, England
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Reply #125 gives you the name of one of Richard and Mahala's children.
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That makes sense, because she died somewhere in Staffordshire (I found her probate yesterday)
and about daughter Agnes M. I guess she was called Agnes Mahala Douthwaite... ;)
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That makes sense, because she died somewhere in Staffordshire (I found her probate yesterday)
and about daughter Agnes M. I guess she was called Agnes Mahala Douthwaite... ;)
The probate names Agnes May Fraser a widow.
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Herbert T Cape's son. http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2847733/CAPE,%20The%20Rev.%20ROBERT%20EDWARD
http://www.universitystory.gla.ac.uk/biography/?id=WH0310&type=P
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Have you tried looking for baptisms for them anywhere
What web-pages could I use (free ones) to look up baptisms?
(if you can't say, please send me a PM)
Familysearch & freereg are both free. Baptisms in the early 1900's are limited though familysearch have some up to 1919 in Durham.
Your profile does not show where you are located so it is difficult to advise what records are available free in your area. Ancestry (& FindMyPast in some areas) are available in UK libraries. I understand that Ancestry is also available in some libraries abroad. I am lucky, my library has both ;D
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Marriages Sep 1939, Wolverhampton 6b 2105.
Agnes M Douthwaite/William D Fraser
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So, regarding the wealth of William Douthwaite, I guess he could have inherited money from:
His sister Emma who died in 1916 spinster: £340
His mother Agnes who died in 1919 widow: £244 / 3 (brothers left) = £81
Total = £421 (or £19400 of today's money)
Plus IF his first wife Maggie Jane who died in 1945 left him: £1824 (£70300)
It all adds up to nearly £90000 plus what he earned himself.
I know all this is a lot of speculation ;D, but it fits with the idea that he had "a bit of money" when he married Mary Alice in 1947...
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Plus IF his first wife Maggie Jane who died in 1945 left him: £1824 (£70300)
If she was estranged from him as you suggested I doubt she would leave him any ::)
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I'm a little late to this rodeo but, for what it's worth, If yoir William Doithwaite is the son Richard Douthwaite and Agnes Scambler, his father - Richard - is the yoingest of 14 children of Henry Dowthwaite (1771-c1847) of Over Staveley and Kentmere.
This Westmorland Dowthwaite family qppears in quite a few Ancestry members family trees.
Incidentally, that also makes William some cousin of Willam lhe Liverpool fireman on the steamers Ludworth amd Cassia