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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Worcestershire => Topic started by: dove13au on Tuesday 09 June 15 02:25 BST (UK)
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looking for any info on ida may smith born 1902 in kidderminster. ty
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looking for any info on ida may smith born 1902 in kidderminster. ty
There's this 1902 Kidderminster birth registration - no middle name
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2F88-CVN
and her christening 1902 Kidderminster parents Maurice & Miriam
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J3L8-ZR4
birth entry
Miriam Dutfield 1871 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2X4M-HFC
possible death
Miriam Smith age 32 Kidderminster 1903 see FreeBMD
1911 census details can’t be posted but you will find Ida in Kidderminster – credits needed to view
free search shows Maurice Smith born 1872 birth entry https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2XHY-XFL
this might be Ida's sister Miriam Joan Smith
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2FZW-8BH
free search 1911 shows her as Joan Smith born 1901
1881 census Maurice Smith 1871 you need to check original (says daugher)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X3NF-XRH
1881 census Miiram Dutfield c1872
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X3NX-658
To confirm if the above are correct persons you may want to verify father's name with marriage certificate
FreeBMD http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
1899 marriage entry Kidderminster
Maurice Smith
Name on same age
Miriam Dutfield
Hopes this helps and gives you something to work with
Edited as not correct family
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ty but i do not think this is her.i think her parents were george and elizabeth jane smith thank you for your help
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ty but i do not think this is her.i think her parents were george and elizabeth jane smith thank you for your help
There is an Ida May Smith on 1911
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7YY-12W
Free search shows a George Smith b1863 & Elizabeth Jane born b1862
this looks to be Ida's birth entry 1901 (FreeBMD) - b/c would confirm her parents names
Jun 1901 Kidderminster 6c 242 Ida May Smith
ADDED - maybe a sister of Ida's
A christening 1888 St. John the Baptist, Kidderminster, Worcester
Ethel May Smith parents George & Elizabeth Jane
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N8BK-S4W
Sorry can't see one for Ida
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thank you very much now i have to find out if she married which i dont think she did i think she had a daughter born in 1931.i do not know when she died.i think her daughter could possible be my mother.hope fully i can solve a mystery that has taken me a few years.ty
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thank you very much now i have to find out if she married which i dont think she did
Might she have married as just Ida there are two entries for Kidderminster on FreeBMD
Mar 1932 , Dec 1934 and one Ida May entry Mar 1947
There’s also an Ida M Jun 1939 Oldbury & Ida M Sep 1945 Dudley
Have not given spouses names in case they are still living – use the FreeBMD link to check maybe you can match them with a death entry and her age
i think she had a daughter born in 1931.
Have you thought about ordering her b/c to confirm? - They can be purchased from the GRO using the reference details from FreeBMD
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp
i do not know when she died
Do you know if she stayed in Worcester area? Try FreeBMD and see if there's a match for her age
also try without a surname in case she did marry
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Don't know if this will be of any help Find my past has these death entries for an
Ida May SMITH
born 1900 died 1974 Dudley
born 1900 died 1986 Leicester Central
born 1901 died 1984 Gloucester
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If you get her birth certificate for exact date of birth, you can then search for her death, as the date of birth is recorded on death certificates from 1969.
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thank you very much will check it out ty
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Hi Dove
I dont know where you are in the country but if you live in the midlands its worth going to The HIVE at Worcester or Kidderminster library as both have the parish registers for Kidderminter & also have old numbers of Kiddy papers (Times & Shuttle), I was born in Worcester City & also lived at Kidderminster
Good hunting
All the very best
Phil
Weston-super-Mare
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ty for that but i now live in australia.it is impossible for me to get to those places.people on here have helped me a lot.thank you every one. :)
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I didn't realize you lived in Australia so tell you what - I shall be going to stay with some cousins for a long holiday in August & when there I shall pay 6 visits to the HIVE which is over 10 miles away in Worcester so will have a look at the parish registers for Kidderminster when there but will confine my search to 1901 - 1903 for baptisms & will also check out 2 of the marriages that have been suggested to you March 1932 & December 1934 (in the hope that the fathers name matches) but will only search Kidderminster not the entire district as I shan't have enough time
I hope to send you a positive reply to my searches
All the very best
Phil
Weston-super-Mare
Somerset
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thank you very much.i really appreciate you helping this way.if possible i would like to know when ida may smith died.if that is possible. thank you have a lovelly holiday. look forward to hearing from you ;D :)
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I can't promise re burial/death yet as I don't even know Ida's married name so lets take it one step at a time shall we :)
All the very best
Phil
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thank you any thing you can tell me would help :)
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George Smith b 1863 Blymhill Shrops
Elizabeth Jane b 1872 Kidderminster, Worcs
Bertha Louise b 1886 Kidderminster
Constance Emma, b 1893 Kidderminster
Hubert George b 1996 Kidderminster
Ida May b 1902 Kidderminster
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ty for that
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Its nice to see Ida May on a census with her birthplace being given as Kidderminster as I was afraid she may just have been born in the Kiddy district but now I have a lot more hope that my search will find her baptism - hope that I'm right :)
All the very best
Phil
Weston-super-Mare
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Looks like the Ida M. who married a Pritchard in 1947 could be this one:
Ida May Pritchard born 30/3/1901, died September 1982 Kidderminster. Sometimes baptisms also include birthdates (depends on the vicar) - as your Ida May Smith's birth was registered in June quarter 1901 Kidderminster this would tie in with the above birthdate. A birth on that date is almost certain to have been in the June quarter.
Annette
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i have her in 1936/7 at 29 leswell lane kidderminster as ida may smith and elizabeth jane smith so i do not think she married.my grandfather was at same address.i think elizabeth jane was my mother.charles hendy was with nellie phipps.on mums marriage cert charles hendy was father.i am not sure but i think her mother left her there i do not know why.ty for help
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George Smith b 1863 Blymhill Shrops
Elizabeth Jane b 1872 Kidderminster, Worcs
Bertha Louise b 1886 Kidderminster
Constance Emma, b 1893 Kidderminster
Hubert George b 1996 Kidderminster
Ida May b 1902 Kidderminster
If the above is your Ida here's the family in 1901/91, some baptisms & possible marriage of parents
b/c of one of the children would confirm mothers maiden name
1901 c RG13; Piece: 2766; Folio: 7; Page: 5
27 Off? Road Kidderminster
George Smith 38 Staffs Overlooker of worsted spinning
Elizabeth J 39, William 16, Bertha 15, Percy 11, Constance 8 & Herbert 5
All others born Kidderminster
1891 RG12; Piece: 2316; Folio: 15; Page: 23
3 Woodfield Street Kidderminster
George Smith28,
Elizabeth Jane 29, William Alfred 6, Bertha Louisa 5, Percy Harold 2
Baptism Place: St. John the Baptist, Kidderminster, Worcester, England
Father: George Mother: Elizabeth Jane
William Alfred Smith
Baptism Date: 26 Jan 1885
Bertha Louisa Smith
Baptism Date: 26 Apr 1886
Percy Harold Smith
Baptism Date: 13 May 1889
Constance Emma Smith
Baptism Date: 10 Oct 1892
Hubert George Smith
Baptism Date: 12 Aug 1895
Elizabeth Jane Bullock Age:22 father Alfred
29 Sep 1884 St. John The Baptist Church, Kidderminster, Worcester, England
George Smith age 21 father William
Elizabeth Jane Bullock Baptism Date: 4 May 1862 Kidderminster Parish, Worcester
Father: Alfred Mother: Caroline
possible death entry for Elizabeth Jane
Elizabeth J SMITH age 76 (b1861) Mar 1937 Kidderminster vol 6c page 142
have her in 1936/7 at 29 leswell lane kidderminster
If someone has access to the Electoral Register for that area perhaps they can check later dates to see if she's still living at that address
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Have you got your mother's birth certificate? Why do you think Ada's parents were George and Elizabeth?
Are you saying your mother puts Charles Hendy as her father on her marriage certificate?
And you think Ada left her daughter with Charles Hendy. Who is Nellie Phipps?
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ty for reply i will try to answer as best i can.i have been searching for mums birth cert in the name of elizabeth hendy but there is not one. mum always said she was fostered.we knew charles hendy and nellie phipps as our grand parents when we lived in england.since found out nellie was not her mother she lived with charles hendy.kidderminster library sent me list of people who lived where charles and nellie lived.when we lived in england we would visit them at that adress.there was a elizabeth jane and ida may smith in 1936/37living there.so after years of not finding any thing i looked at them.i found elizabeth smith was born oct nov dec 1931 which possible fit in with a birth for my mother.i have my mothers marriage cert she was married as elizabeth hendy her father on cert is charles hendy. i have always known my mother as elizabeth hendy before she married my dad.i could be wrong about this but it seems to fit. i do not know why her mother left her with charles unless he realy was her father.
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First of all, the Ida May Smith living at same address as Charles Hendy in 1936/1937 with Elizabeth Jane Smith. You do realise that Elizabeth Jane Smith was Ida's mother and not a daughter (children do not appear on electoral rolls)?
You say you found an 'Elizabeth Smith born Oct.-Dec.1931' mmn Smith - however, the only Elizabeth Smith mmn Smith birth that I can find was born in Fulham, London??
Ida's mother Elizabeth Jane died in either Mar.1937 or Dec.1945 Kidderminster - as I already explained, there is no death entry for Ida May Smith so having presumably looked after her mother, when her mother died she was in effect 'free' and I feel sure that the Ida M. Smith marriage to a Pritchard in 1947 Kidderminster was her - again, as already stated, there is death entry for an Ida May Pritchard with a birthdate that would appear to match that for Ida May Smith.
You say 'when we lived in England' so it sounds as if you left the UK - if so, your mother would have needed a birth certificate to obtain a passport so surely she must have had something??
I do appreciate your problem - believe me - but unless you purchase the birth certificate of the birth entry you've found stating the mother was an Ida May Smith with the child having your mothers birthdate you can't assume that Ida May Smith in Kidderminster had even given birth to a child just because she and her mother were living at the same address as Charles Hendy in 1936/7. People often rented out rooms and that could be the simple reason why Ida and her mother were living there.
I would have thought that as your mother understood she was 'fostered' surely there must have been some record of this. Have you approached the appropriate local services in Kidderminster to see if they have any records? What was your mothers birthdate by the way? There must have been some written record of her somewhere re. schooling, etc. and she'd have needed a birth certificate for a passport.
As you say, perhaps Charles Hendy really was her father but at this point I don't think you can assume Ida May Smith was her mother until you have a copy of a birth certificate stating this fact and that the childs birthdate was that of your Mum.
Annette
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ty for that.my mother always said she never had birth cert how she got a passport i do not know.mum has said differant places she was born over the years so i do not know.i have contacted every one in england i can no one can find a birth cert for elizabeth hendy.as far as i know she said she was born 15/10/1929.i do not know if that is true.so dissapointed now i did not know they did not have children on electoral rollty
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Sorry for your disappointment. It's hard. Electoral rolls at that time were only for those over age 21 (now 18) who have registered to vote.
There is a birth - but it may be an absolute red herring - and it doesn't fit with the birthdate you have got.
Sep quarter 1932 (so not an October birthday )
Elizabeth J Hendy, mother's maiden name (mmn) Whitchurch
Keynsham district vol 5c pag 683 (Keynsham is about 80 miles south of Kidderminster)
from freebmd - http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
edit: No, sorry. Wilfred G Hendy married Florence Whitchurch in 1930 Keynsham so doesn't fit.
When was Charles Hendy born? It may be useful to have a look at him. Then again it might not.
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charles hendy was born 22/8/1897 in kent this is from his death cert. died 11/5/1978.what is strange is doris simms said on cert she was his daughter.she was nellies daughter her father was alfred luker.on my mums death cert it said she was born in gillingham kent i did not get any where with that i have tried checking it but have got no where.they are dead now so no luck there' even doris son eddie is dead thank for your help
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The more I think about this I believe that Charles Hendy was her father - he attended your mothers wedding, she had his name and allowed himself to be listed as her father. I firmly believe he was not married to Elizabeth's mother who continues to be unknown thus making her birth certificate impossible to be found.
Discovered that Charles came from a somewhat disfunctional family going by various trees on ancestry. Whilst Charles himself gave birthdate 22/8/1897, the trees say 22/8/1898. However, whilst his parents were a Charles William Hendy and Catherine Ann Varley they did not marry until 13/5/1899 St. Michaels, Chatham. Thus his birth would have been illegitimate but there is no birth entry for a Charles Hendy or Varley in Medway district for the appropriate time and at least one very detailed tree assumes it simply wasn't registered. However, I've noticed that a Horace Varley birth was registered in Sept.1897 Medway who then 'vanishes'. No death, not on any census - I wonder whether this could have been Charles as the time fits exactly and they simply changed his name. He seems to have followed in his fathers footsteps as being somewhat disruly and ended up in a Catholic Approved School in 1907 as being 'Beyond Control' and eventually shipped out to Canada on 24/6/1914, arriving in Quebec on 2/7/1914.
So, we now know he went to Canada but when did he return? I cannot locate him on 1921 Canadian Census, nor can I find him in UK incoming records although return he did. I did find a Charles Varley of the right age arriving from Canada on 22/6/1924 - shown as a Student (??) and UK address to be 61 Guys Inn Buildings, Roseberry, London. I can't find this Charles Varley on 1921 Canadian census either, nor can I see a Charles Varley returning to Canada. Was this possibly him returning in his birth surname? Who knows!
If Charles Hendy's correct birthdate was 22/8/1897 then his entry into the approved school has the year wrong i.e. 22/8/1898. I wouldn't mind betting that the Horace Varley birth in 1897 was him.
I cannot find the Hendy family in 1901 census (nor have the online trees). The census was on 3rd April 1901 - their daughter Kathleen was born 10th April at 2 Broad Alley, Gillingham but they family weren't living there on census date just a week earlier!! They appear to have eluded the enumerator.
So, whilst I can't help with the name of your grandmother, I feel sure that Charles Hendy was indeed your grandfather.
Annette
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i do not think that is the right one.i know charles was at st vincents industrial school for roman catholic boys at dartford kent when he was 13.ty for help
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Where do you get the information that he was aged 13 in the boys home? If it is the 1911 census then it fits with the birthdates that Annette has found.
For what it's worth, I think Annette is right. It's a good piece of research.
Did you ever meet Nellie Phipps' daughter? Could Nellie be the grandmother to you?
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As silvery agrees - the one you say is your Charles Hendy at St. Vincents Industrial School, Dartford aged 13 born Chatham is the same person as the son of Charles and Catherine!
Industrial Schools like this were also reformatory schools (what today we refer to as Approved Schools)- often they were pretty bad but this one being run by the RC church appears to have been a good one. The children who would go there would be orphans, those unable to be kept at home for some reason, those who'd been in some kind of trouble, with the aim being to educate them, teach them an occupation, and discipline. Googling shows it had a very good reputation and in 1933 it officially became known as an Approved School.
Think about it logically - Hendy was an unusual name especially in Kent. What are the odds of 2 Charles Hendy's being born in Chatham on 22nd August, one 1897 and the other 1898. 'Your' Charles was at the school in Dartford in 1911, so was the other Charles yet there is only one boy of that name there. 'Your' Charles cannot be found on 1901 census, nor can the other one. We know that for whatever reason Charles William Hendy, wife Catherine, sons Charles and Francis Walter (plain Walter in 1911) are missing from 1901 census on 3rd. April - yet just one week later daughter Kathleen is born in Gillingham so they must have been around somewhere in the area (although not at the address where Kathleen was born 7 days later). Clearly, the family were in the process of moving house, with Catherine about the give birth, which could be why they were missed by the enumerator.
'Your' Charles and the son of Charles William Hendy and Catherine Varley are clearly one and the same and I really don't know how else I can convince you.
As I said earlier, my gut feeling is that the 'Horace' Varley birth in Sept. quarter 1897 (who apart from birth entry is never seen again) is the later to be 'Charles', son of Charles and Catherine, nee Varley (who didn't marry until 1899) and that the birthdate of said 'Horace' is likely to be 22nd August. As the couple weren't yet married he would have been listed as a Varley. If I'm wrong on that, then again, as the other trees state, the birth simply wasn't registered at all. Looking at it logically again, if there were 2 Charles Hendy's born 22nd August Chatham, one in 1897 and one in 1898, what are the odds on both birth registrations to be missing?
Annette
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thank you for that it seems to fit but i do not know if he went to canada.we left england in 1962 when i was 12 so i dont really remember much only going to the baths in kidderminster.then going to who i knew as my grand parents in leswell lane.we lived in stourport on severn.no i never met nellies daughter that i can remember i really do not remember any relatives from them. nellies daughter was born 1920 tyhttp://www.rootschat.com/forum/Smileys/classic/smiley.gif
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it seems to fit but i do not know if he went to canada.
we left england in 1962 when i was 12 so i dont really remember much only going to the baths in kidderminster.
then going to who i knew as my grand parents in leswell lane.we lived in stourport on severn.
no i never met nellies daughter that i can remember i really do not remember any relatives from them. nellies daughter was born 1920
Have been following all the replies especially from Annette who has done a lot of research
Did you check the Electoral Registers for Leswell Lane right up until 1962?
I see you have public tree and you have attached the following record
22nd July 1907 Britten Street, Old & New Workhouse Discharge for Charles Hendy age 13
Do you think the above is the correct Charles Hendy?
The reason I ask the question is
That Charles would have been born C1894, also on the same sheet for discharge is a
John Hendy age 7 (born c1900 - I would presume his brother)
I think this might be that Charles & John Hendy on census with their parents and siblings
1901 census RG13; Piece: 34; Folio: 76; Page: 41
John Hendy 33, Caroline 33, Charles 7 Fulham, Marian 3 Old Kent Road, John 1 Old Kent Road
this looks to be the families admission to Britten Street, Old and New Workhouses, in 1907 July 9th together with their parents & sister
John Hendy 1867 engineer
Caroline 1868 needlework
Charles Arthur John 1894
Marion Sophia Mary 1886
John Thomas 1900
I would like to ask some info. re: m/c of your mother so I ’m sending you a personal message rather than asking them your thread, if thats ok with you :)
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found out nellie had 2 daughters only thought she had 1 doris luker.her other daughter marion blanche luker married a pritchard ida may smith married a pritchard also it is weird
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found out nellie had 2 daughters only thought she had 1 doris luker.her other daughter
apologies - on my pm should have put possible sister to Doris, further investigation is needed to see if there is any connection to your Luker/Phipps family
M B Luker was born in Monmouth not Kidderminster although mmn is the same PHIPPS -
it may just be a coincidence they have the same surnames & mmn
Checked FreeBMD and there's a marriage entry Monmouthshire 1912 Charles W Luker to Esther M Phipps - these might be her parents. You won't know for certain unless you see her birth certificate to confirm her parents names
There are two other Luker births in Monmouthshire mmn Phipps 1914 & 1917 both male
(see FreeBMD)
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In Lady Hawk's reply on page 3 I note an address 27 Off?? road - this would be Offmore Road, I used to live in Kidderminster
All the very best
Phil
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Hi Dove
Sorry to send a negative look up result but I searched Kidderminster baptisms for the parishes of St Mary, St George & St John but could not find any reference to Ida May Smith nor could I find her marriage in either of these 3 parishes so presume she was baptised & married in one of the parishes in the Kidderminster district but not Kidderminster itself & Im sorry but I don't have time to search the whole district for her
All the very best
Phil
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thank you very much for looking for me.i hope your are having a nice holiday :)
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Hi Dove
I'm having a very good break, than you for asking.
Sorry I was unable to be of any help to you this time
All the very best
Phil