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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Surrey => Topic started by: ln4266 on Monday 08 June 15 22:38 BST (UK)
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Hi,
My family research has gone off on a bit of a tangent, and I am now researching Charles Davis (1832-1918). He was one of the founding members of the LME. I know that he had 3 wives, as it is mentioned in his will. He requests to be buried with the first 'Fanny [gosden?] d 1864', and says that the third 'Lydia Pamplin' has not been a good wife! Lydia had five children as mentioned in the will, although they seem to be fathered by a number of different people (she had a habit of giving the children names that closely resembled men that she knew...). Charles and Lydia married in 1911, when Charles was already quite elderly. Lydia then goes on to have further children.
I can't seem to find a record of the second wife? Any ideas?
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Have you found him in any census between 1871 and 1911 as that would give you the first name of the second wife and perhaps make it easier to find the marriage?
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Is this him in 1861? Not New Maldon, so I wasnt sure
9 Cowley Place, Kennington
Charles Davis 28 commercial clerk bn Knightsbridge
Fanny 26 bn Brompton
Bessy 3 bn Islington
Eliza 1
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Ah! In New Maldon area by 1871
Rose Villa
Charles Davis 38 widower metal broker bn St Geo Hanover Sq
James H Davis 65 father Schoolmaster bn St Johns Westminster
Eliza 62 mother bn Chelsea
Bessie 13 dtr bn Islington
Herbe? 8 son bn St Mary Lambeth
William Morris brother in law
Fanny Morris sister
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Hi,
Thanks for your replies. I forgot to mention that I had found him on the census - those above are the ones that I've found.
1871 - he's a widow
1881 - he's a widow, living with parents, daughter Bessie, niece and nephew. Frederick A (ubrey) Waight is also living with them - not sure of the connection, but he's also mentioned in will
1891 - he's a widow, living with servant and lodger Stephen Gillham (mentioned in will - Charles wanted funeral to same standard as his)
1901 - he's mentioned as a widow, living with Walter Goodall (boarder), Lydia Pamplin (servant), Amy Ethel Pamplin (servant) and James Davis (Pamplin) a 3 month baby
1911 - he's still living with Walter Goodall, Lydia Pamplin and James (davis) Pamplin - now adopted son, and Walter Goodall Pamplin (now adopted son).
I assume that his second marriage is sometime between the censuses, but I can't seem to find anything that fits in any of the marriage records...
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The child I read as Herbe, but I think on later censuses is Henry - do you know if his mother was also Fanny? Or was wife no.2 in that era?
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I think 'Herbe' was his son, Henry Charles. Henry was born approx 1863, and Fanny died in 1864, so am assuming she is his mother...
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New Malden comes under the Kingston registration district, so it might be a case of working through the marriages of all the Charles Davis between 1871 and 1911 and seeing which can be eliminated by following them through censuses. There are some with middle names, so you may be able to discard them if you know that he didn't have one.
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Good idea
Need to start at 1864 when Fanny died though.
By 1871 he may have already been widowed for the second time.
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Not quite as daunting as it sounds as I think there are only about 5 or 6 without middle names.
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have been trying to find the link with Frederick Aubrey Waight, in case that helps, but not sure it does much. His father was Frederick thomas James Waight and mother Harriett Frances, nee Ford. they married in London. Fred snr remarries an Ann(ie) Deney in the mid 1860s. He is a plumber, glazier and painter.
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What exactly does he say about the second wife in his will?
Jann
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Have you seen this one ?
Charles Davis , full ,widower , metal broker, New Maldon , James Henry Davis Gentleman
Georgina Ansell Weiss , full , widow , Finchley , Henry Barrett organist
13 Feb 1872 , St Mary's , Finchley
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Thanks everyone for your help. He doesn't mention 2nd wife at all, save for the fact that he requests for locks of hair and bundles of correspondance relating to the 3 wives to be placed in his coffin with him. His first wife, Fanny is described as his 'sainted wife' - he was buried with her and a child that died. His third wife he describes as: "without going into the question of whether she has been a good wife to me, lets just say for arguements sake she has not... Unfortuanately her temperament is that she makes no friends and the result will be that after my death she will with her children be plunged into poverty and misery"... his will has a number of codecils, and he leaves money for her and their children. He also asked for a plaque to be erected in his memory in Christchurch, New Malden.
There is further information about Charles here: http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1m1q7/NewMaldensVillageVoi/resources/15.htm
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I've just looked that one up... I think you may have found it! Thanks :)
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In effect yes - it's from the parish register ( images on A*y ) . The certificate would be exactly the same.
You updated while I was still posting - glad it's right !
Christine
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Georgina A Weiss was a vocalist according the 1871 census (wid, 44 b Gloucester, living in Finchley).
The other vocalist in the household, Frederick Small, went on to marry Georgina's daughter Georgina Angelique Weiss. As Georgina Angelique Small she was granted probate of her mother's estate after her death as Georgina Ansell Davis in Brighton in 1880.
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The 1861 census shows Georgiana Weiss as a principal soprano vocalist, together with her husband Willoughby H Weiss, a principal bass vocalist.
Here is more about Willoughby, with a mention also of his wife:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willoughby_Weiss
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Charles Davis must have been quite a character...! I'm not too sure if he is a direct ancestor, or just happened to be someone who would have known the origins of my Great-Grandfather...
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Have just read this thread. Lydia Florence Pamplin had 8 siblings, Evan Turner Pamplin is my ancestor. Katie Ballard Pamplin born 28 July 1895 was Lydia's daughter. Walter Goodall Pamplin born 13 November 1903 was Lydia's son, no Father on either birth certificate. On Walter's marriage certificate he states his Father is Walter Goodall Pamplin (deaceased) a Metal Brooker.
James Davis Pamplin was baptised on 4th May 1900 the Mother is stated as Dora Pamplin in the register.
I to have Georgina Ansell Weiss nee Barrett as his 2nd wife.
My Father always referred to Charles Davis as "the copper king" and made him sound quite a character. As Charles died in 1918 it must have been memories/ stories from his Father or Grandfather. Would you have any photographs of them? Would it be possible to have a copy of his will and codecils?
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Hi, I've sent you a personal message. I would be interested to know more about Charles Davis and the children of Lydia. My connection is with Henry Banks Pamplin who was fostering my great grandfather in 1911.