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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: Artemis1 on Saturday 09 July 05 00:46 BST (UK)
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Margaret Tattersall (aldersley) born abt 1792 carlton-In-Craven, died 23 Feb 1856 Elslack, aged 63, married to Thomas Tattersall. I believe Margaret was the daughter of Jeremiah Aldersley and Ann Stott and nor the daughter of Antony. Reasons, Jeremiah and Ann also moved to Elslack, Margaret had children named Jerimiah and Ann, but no Antony. I am descended from Ann Tattersall who married Francis Smith in Elslack.
Margaret's birth is not showing in any records, (Margaret dau of Anthony died inf), or it appears as Mary instead of Margt. (Jeremiah & Ann had two Mary's, 1793, 1795.
Can any one clarify this issue?
Margaret & Thomas had the following children,
Susannah, Ann, Jane, Elizabeth, Jeremiah, Christopher, Mary, Patience, James, Jane, Margaret.
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Francis Smith Married Ann Tattersall Sep 1837
Children I have found are:
Robert 1839 Married dec 1868 Skipton to Nancy Kenyon
David Sep 1840 no further info may have died young need to verify this.
Elizabeth Smith 1845, Married Dec 1874 Levi Lee
Margaret Patience Smith 1847 Married James Lesiter Savage June 1871
Mary Smith 1849
Thomas Smith 1851 Married Rebbecca Romans June 1872
Jane Smith 1854 Married George S Hollingdrake Sep 1874
Frank Smith 1859
Theses are all the children I have for Francis and Ann. I do have most of the children and ancestors from all these marriages so perhaps you had better drop me another line so I can see who you have found and who you haven't. Or I could be here for decades.
Who are you descended from?
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This is the Info for Jeremiah Aldersley and Ann Stott.
Patience 1784
George 1787 Married Mary Laycock 28 oct 1808 in Broughton
John Aldersley 1789
Anne Aldersley 1791
Mary Aldersley 1793
Elizabeth Aldersley 1797, Died 1844, Married John Whiteoak
Jeremiah Aldersley 1805
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Anthony Aldersley was married to Elizabeth Tomlinson. marriage was 24 Marh 1788 in Kildwick he had two children with Elizabeth.
Sarah Aldersley born 1789 in Carleton Married John Swire 04 Jan 1810 marriage in Broughton
Margaret Aldersley 1790 Carleton. Thomas Tattersall 17 Dec 1812 Carleton Marriage.
Anthony was married before this to Hannah Baxter. 7 Dec 1775 in Carleton
They had the following children.
John Aldersley 1776
Edmund Aldersley 1777
John Aldersley 1779
James Aldersley 1781
Nancy Aldersley 1783
I have found nothing to suggest that Margaret died young and I dont think she was the child of jeremiah. But as you have gathered they were a very inbred lot and all living and marrying in the same areas so it makes it nearly impossible to tellwho belonged to who.
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:o
Here's one for you Jane Smith born 1854 Elslack Married George S Hollingdrake Sep 1874 in Bradford.
George S Hollingdrake is her first cousin! Son of Susannah Tattersall and William Hollingdrake
Susannah being her Mothers Sister.
There's another one as well
Elizabeth Tattersall Married William Aldersley her 2nd Cousin when you trace back their family line they both go back to John Aldersley who is her 3rd Great Granfather and the 3rd Great grandfather of William!!!!!!
I'm amazed my kids turned out as well as they did with all this inbreeding.
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You could be right about the Jeremiah being the father. I will have to go through everything again. sfance a descendant of Anthony thinks that Margaret did died but cannot find any others on IGI so back to square one with this one.
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I am a direct descendant of Anthony Aldersley (married to Hannah Baxter). I have copies of the Carelton parish registers. For the christenings beginning March 25th 1790 to March 25th 1791 it says:
"Margaret dau of Anthony & Elizabeth Aldersley of Raygill May 30 1790"
Burials register:
"Margaret dau of Anthony & Elizabeth Aldersley Sept 15th 1791".
I conclude from this that Margaret Tattersall was not the daughter of Anthony and Elizabeth (nee Tomlinson). Oh and by the way, Anthony and Elizabeth also had another daughter, called Hannah. She was born 1790 in Carelton and baptised 30/5/1790. She died 16th Feb 1791 (along with her father, Anthony, who died Sept 29th 1791).
regards
Dianer
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That clears that up then, any Ideas on why Jeremiah has two daughters called Mary and where does Margaret come in to it?
They are all related either way just a case of finding out Who Margaret Aldersley belonged to.
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Been Checking the Census for Elslack 1841 and 1851
Thomas Tattersall is living at Mount Pleasant in 1841 with wife Margaret both aged 50 both born in the county.
In 1851 Thomas is aged 62 and Margaret is 58 living at Moorside House both born Carleton. James their son is with them also born Carleton. Which would make Margaret born 1793 so I guess she could be the Mary child of Jeremiah, but why the change of name to Margaret?
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I have John Smith/Mary having David Smith baptised 1781 in Birdsall as likely ancesters.
David Smith married Elizabeth? who died 04 Oct 1851 Elslack. I think David died between 1841-1851.
Their children were, as far as I know, David Smith born 1806 Birdsall, Mary Smith born 1808 Birdsall, John Smith born 1810, Francis Smith born 1812 and Robert Smith born 1815 all Norton (by Malton). Mary Smith married Thomas Jones . They had children Catherine and David. I don't know abot John, but this had me wondering "Francis Smith son of John & Hannah bap 24 June 1838 from Elslack occ labourer"
For Francis's children I also had Thomas born 1842 died bef 1851, & John Smith 1856. I could never find Patience & now I know why, thank you. David & Catherine (Kate) had Ann Tattersall born 31 Jul 1873 Te Wheau NZ died 18 Nov 1958 Auckland NZ, Frank David born 6 Feb 1875 Wharahine NZ, died 23 Oct 1936 Auckland, Mary Elizabeth born 26 May 1876 Wharahine, Kate Patience born 4 Dec 1882 Wharahine, died 13 Jun 1953 Hamilton, Robert Nathan born 10 May 1885 died 30 Apr 1930 NZ, William Thomas Kitching born 3 Sep 1886, Lucy Jane born 11 Mar 1887 Wharahine, Edith Brunette Victoria born 4 Sep 1890 Wharahine died 23 Jun 1941 Auck., Charles Harland born 8 Oct 1896 Wharahine died 22 Apr 1956.
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So David the child of Francis and Ann who I thought had died Infact left the country and went to NZ and Fathered your line of the family.
I have David as born Sep 1840.
So where did David Marry Catherine? was it here in the UK or In NZ.
Do you know why he went out there?
David has been a real pain as he has never turned up on any searches.
Any help on this one would be great as I have nothing.
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My 14 year old cat is called Artemis, but I have also read a couple of Artemis Fowl books. I'm a Harry Potter fan as well, although I don't normally read children's books. margaret Aldersley dau of Anthony & Elizabeth was buried 15 Sep 1791 Carlton in Craven as per church records. I am uncertain about our Margaret. I think it possible that the first Mary dau of Jerimiah & Ann might be her, perhaps written incorrectly by the clerk, but I don't know hoe to tell for sure. I was looking at some of my notes last night, and founs an Elizabeth Aldersley age 75 bur Elslack 25 Nov 1828. I wondered if this was Elizabeth Tomlinson, which would mean she had also moved to Elslack.
David married Catherine Ann Sharp 17 Sep 1872 Te Hana Creek, Leverton Farm, North Oruawharo, New Zealand.
1961 Census Bradford Yorkshire
West Ward
109 Brick lane
William Morphet head mar 43 Butcher Kirby Lonsdale, Westmoreland
Mary Morphet wife mar 38 Butcher's wife Carlton, Yorkshire
David Smith boarder unm 20 Elslack, Yorkshire
I have all the census records for Francis except 1871. In fact, I don't have the 1871 census for any of them, or any of their dates of death and I don't have all the descendents for David's siblings.
I only have unconfirmed death dates for Ann and Francis. I have death certs for Jeremiah Aldersley, Margaret Tattersall & 04 Oct 1851 for David's grandmother Elizabeth.
My great grandmother, Annie Tattersall Smith married Solomon James Parkinson born at sea 1864 aboard the "Flying Foam" Ireland to New Zealand. My grandfater, David Thomas Parkinson, was their eldest son born 26 Feb 1895 Kuaotunu, New Zealand, he died 27 Oct 1983 Waitakere Hospital, Henderson, New Zealand. He married 19 Oct 1918 Isabell Majurey (only ever known as Maud) born 14 Nov 1900 Karangahake, New Zealand. She died 21 Jun 1978 12 Boston Road Auckland New Zealand. Annies other children were Frank Solomon Parkinson born 15 Aug 1897
Cabbage Bay, Coromandel, New Zealand, died Oct 1918 France, WWI. Frederick Parkinson born 06 Oct 1899 died 14 Nov 1982, Solomon Parkinson born 05 Oct 1901, died 13 Sep 1986 412 Main Highway Ellerslie, Auckland, New Zealand, Lucy Elizabeth Kate Parkinson born 10 Aug 1903 kuaotunu New Zealand, Charles Murdoch Parkinson born 1905, died 27 Dec 1989 Auckland, New Zealand.
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Ann Tattersall Smith married Solomon Parkinson, labourer age 29 on December 26 1893. Solomon's "present" residence was given as Wharahine; his usual residence not listed. Ann's "present" and usual residence was given as Wharahine
Ann's parents were: David Smith, farmer, Kate Smith, maiden name Sharpe.
Solomon's parents: Thomas Parkinson, farmer, Elizabeth Parkinson.
witnesses were: David Smith, farmer, Wharahine, and Kate Smith, Wharahine.
Ref Cleave directories
1893 Solomon Parkinson, farmer, Matakana
1894 Saul Parkinson, Matakana
Since directory information must be collected in advance, and given that she married on 26 Dec 1893 it is possible that Ann never lived in Matakana, but went straight to Kuaotunu with Sol. Anne and Solomon had a fairly large farm on the beach front at Kuaotunu. There was only a strip of bush between it and the sea. There was also a large red barn on the farm, and it was here Sol later shot himself.
Sol was a bushman, and Dave (eldest son) remembered going out with him and his team of oxen with some nostalgia.
On the 21 September 1910 Solomon died in Kuaotunu of gunshot wounds. The coroner was unable to ascertain whether he shot himself or someone else shot him. However, the family knew it was suicide, but covered it up, probably out of shame. Anne's brother, Frank, went down to Kuaotunu to support her at this time. Her son, David Thomas Parkinson, (after he had been drinking on one occasion) said his mother had driven his father to suicide.
Ann may well have pushed Saul too hard. She did not like to see people relax. She also worked very hard. She had her own pats made for making butter and sold it under her own brand.
Frank Smith (Ann (Tattie)'s brother) also had his nephews Solomon and Fred to stay with him for long periods. Saul was at school in Wharahine in 1911, and Fred in 1910.
After World War I Dave returned to Kuoatunu were he had a disagreement with his mother, Ann, over the input of money into the farm there. Ann later financed him into the house at 12 Boston Road which he bought after losing his 20 Rose Road house in Ponsonby during the depression. He had to pay his mother back for the loan, but she left him money in her will.
Ann also had a sense of "station", as did many of her era. When her eldest son, David became engaged to Maude Majurey she considered Maude really wasn't good enough for her son. After all, Maude's family ran hotels!
Anne remarried the same year as Dave married Maude. Her second husband was Charles Otto Eggers of German extraction This later fact was not appreciated by some of Annie's brothers who had a considerable hatred of Germans following the war. Charles also went off for months at a time leaving Ann alone. He had children in the South Island. It is possible he just wanted some space. Ann was a very hardworking woman, and drove all of those around her. Charles was never allowed to read a book as the minute she saw him sitting down she would up and find him some chores to do. Dave seems to have got on quite well with his stepfather, but he was an adult when his mother remarried. His youngest brother, also named Charles, was not quite so enthusiastic. He developed a hatred of the bush as a result of being taken on trips by Charles senior, and being left alone, lost, while his stepfather wandered off. After she remarried Ann sold the farm at Kuaotunu and went to live at/near Manunui in the King country. Charles wanted to move there as the timber had been depleted were he was previously working. There Sol junior met and married Maud, and Lucy met Durus Russell whom she married, and they, too, moved to Manunui to work in the timber mills. Maud Majurey and Dave were already married by this time.
Annie owned a farm at Whenuapai during World War II which lay directly opposite the Air force base. The house was on a hill directly in the flight path and had to be moved to a safer location. Her Granddaughter, Joyce, (my mother) had to spend some time helping Annie (Grandma Eggers) milk during this period when Charles Eggers wandered off again. However, Joyce had plenty of willing assistance from the lads at the air base.
Ann ran boarding houses after the death of her husbands.
Not long before her death Annie caught her coat in a taxi door as she was getting out and was dragged by the taxi. She never fully recovered, and went senile. She was living in a rest home in Three Kings when she died.
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Children and Marriages of Francis and Ann Smiths children.
Starting with the oldest child Robert.
Robert Smith married Nancy Kenyon in Dec 1868 in Skipton
Nancy Was born in Longbridge Preston Lancashire in 1839 ( no parents or Siblings found to date)
They had the following Children:
Elizabeth Ann Smith born Salterforth 1870
Harry Smith born Eccleshill Bfd, 1873
Frank Smith born Bfd, 1876
Jane Smith born Clayton Bfd, 1880
No marriages found for above mentioned.
David Smith well you know more than me on that score!
Elizabeth Smith married Levi Lee Dec 1874 in Bradford. Levi Lee born 1849 in Newsome, died 1892 in Bradford.
They had the following children:
Bertie David Smith born Elslack 1867 (not Levi's Child)
Joseph Edwin Lee born 1877 Bradford
Ernest William Lee Born 1880 Bradford
Jane A Lee born 1882 Bradford
John C Lee born 1890 Bradford
In 1881 The family were living at 14 Livingstone Street Horton, Bradford
In 1871 Levi is staying or living with his Grandparents in Bradford.
Charles Shackleton born 1803 Horton Bradford. And Sarah Shackleton born Raistrick Halifax 1805. They married on 10 Feb 1823 in Bradford.
Sarah was born 17 Nov 1805 maiden name Wild.
I believe Levi's Mother may be Betty Shackleton the only daughter of the above mentioned. The only other children I have found for them are all Male.
Children for the Shackletons are:
Soloman Shackleton 07 May 1828 Great Horton Bradford
Joseph Shackleton 04 Sep 1830 Gt Horton Bfd
James Shackleton 17 Dec 1834 Gt Horton Bfd
Betty Shackleton 19 Sep 1824 Gt Horton Bfd
I do have all the children for the Shackleton Men and their marriages if you want them.
:)
Margaret Patience Smith married James Lesiter Savage June 1871 in Bradford.
James was born 1850 in Mansfield. He died Sep 1893 Bradford. James is boarding in Tong Bradford in 1871 Occupation druggist/Chemist.
Children of the above are:
Emily Savage born June 1872 Bfd
James W Savage 1875 Bfd
George Smith Savage Sep 1876 Bfd
Frederick Charles Savage June 1878 Bfd
Eleanor Savage Dec 1881 Bfd
Harold Savage 1885 Bfd
There is a marriage for Frederick Charles Savage Sep 1901 to either Mary Walsh or Sarah Jane Stringer without census records to verify which one he married I have not included it in my tree.
Will get round to buying Cert at some point.
Harold Savage possible marriage March 1907 Bradford to either Clara HArrison or Edith Ramsden.
Again not verified who he married.
Mary no information yet.
Thomas Smith Married Rebbecca Romans June 1872 Bradford
Rebbecca is from Selby. born 1852. I have her parents and Grandparents plus siblings if you want them let me know.
Here is where it gets a little confusing.
I will give you the info from census as I have collected it, as living witness and census do not exactly tally up, due to Nana's ill state of health and memory I am inclined to go with census info rather than hers.
Children of Thomas and Rebbecca are:
Annie Smith 1874 All born Bradford
Emily 1877
Jane 1879
William Francis 1885
Nellie 1889
Mary 1892
William Francis Smith married Daisy Walmsley in 1919, Daisy was born Oxford in 1886. Daughter of a Methodist Minister. ( This is Our line)
They Had one female child who is still living and therefore will only disclose via private channels.
Have Marriages for some of the other children.
Jane Smith married George S hollingdrake Sep 1874 Bradford. George is the son of William Hollingdrake and Susannah Tattersall( yes Daughter of Thomas and Margaret Tattersal).
They had the following Children:
Elizabeth Hollingdrake Bfd 1876
Thomas Francis Hollingdrake 1878 Bfd
William Smith Hollingdrake 1878 died Jun 1902
George Edward Hollingdrake 1882 Bfd
John Hollingdrake 1887 Bfd
Mary Ellen Hollingdrake 1889 Bfd
Again I have some ancestry for William Hollindrake if you want it let me know. Sussanah you already know about.
John Smith no information at the moment.
Frank Smith no information at the moment.
The End
All other information regards living members of the family and is available through private channels.
Hope this helps!
If you want more then let me know.
Regards your distant relative by marriage.
Helen
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Great. I think Ann Smith probably died 1st 1/4 1878 Skipton 9a 23 age 63 and Francis Smith Probably died 3rd 1/4 1884 Skipton 9a 39 age 71. Have you been able to confirm this. I am trying to work out how to attach a photo. I will have a good look in the weekend as most of mine will need to be reduced in size.
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Ann Smith would probably have died in Bradford!
In 1871 the family are living at 34 Hill End Farm Horton Bradford. Unless of course she went back to Skipton to visit a relative or to die. Ann is with them.
But Bradford is a very large area and Smith is a common name hence never tracked a suitable death date down.
She died between 1871 and 1881 that is certain!
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Again Francis is living in Bradford 1871 and 1881 so I would think he probably died in Bradford registration district rather than Skipton.
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I have Francis down as died Sep 1884 Skipton but I can't tie itup as all his children had moved out to BRadford at that time, I don't think anyone had moved back to Elslack.
So without the cert am uncertain about this.
I will have a look at the GRO and see how long certs are taking at the moment and may be get a copy.
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It's great that you have photo's. I don't think there are any here maybe Nana has some in storage.
She is in a nursing home and has limited speach, will ask her next time I'm in Yorkshire.
Silly thing is I lived in and visited all the areas I am now researching but I moved to wiltshire in the south of the country 4 years ago. Which makes it difficult to go to the graveyards and records office's.
Did you know that there is a Pub in Elslack called The Tempest Arms.
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David Smith is the bearded gent sitting. Are you interested in receiving photos? Please let me know. I found family members I had never heard of previously, just up and got copies of all the old photos I could locate. I am also interested in stories. I hope the previous photo came through all right.
Pam
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David Smith Left the East India Docks, Gravesend, on the Shaw Saville ship the 'Matilda Wattenbach' (later renamed 'Racehorse') on 2 June 1862 arriving in Auckland on 8 September 1862. The Matilda was the first of the Albertlander immigrant ships to arrive in New Zealand.
Land allocation Ak Archives:LS-A 29 BAAZ 4115/1a
Special Settlement Land O.
WR Brame: Agent
No of landholder Quantity Name Grantee Dateof Endorsation Date arrived Ship
134 40 David Smith J.M.C 9 Sep 1862 8 Sep 1862 Matilda Wattenbach
(signed by David Smith)
Land sale held at Oruawharo 21-22 October 1862
Ref Auckland Museum Library Weekly News 5 Oct 1872 page 23
Smith Sharpe on September 17 at Leverton Farm Albertland N.E. Mr David Smith, farmer, to Kate, second daughter of Nathan William Sharpe. Eng-Home papers please copy. Winesses were Nathan William Sharpe and S Dibble.
Ref HD 1051 A Return of the Freeholders of NZ October 1882 Smith, David, farmer, Wharahine, Rodney held 220 acres worth 335 pounds. His original acerage had been 80 acres, and this eventually grew to 450 acres.
David Smith served on the Roads Board Roney County 1910-1913
Ref NZPost\Wises\Cleaves directories
Diretories would indicate that Kate and David lived at Wharahine until they moved to Auckland shortly before David's death.
Ref NZPO\Cleaves\Wises directories and electoral rolls
1873-74 Wharahine, David Smith, farmer, electoral # 535, Port Albert, freehold Wharahine Port Albert 80 acres, part section 19.
1883-1884 Wharahine, David Smith, farmer
1885-1886 Wharahine, David Smith, farmer
1891 Wharahine, David Smith, farmer
1893 Wharahine, David Smith, farmer
1894 Wharahine, David Smith, farmer
1914 Richardson Road, Mt Albert (where he died)
1915 Richardson Road, Mrs David Smith
1924 Smith Mrs Kate, Richardson Road, Mt Albert
ref "the Rock and the Sky' by H. Mabbett. David Smith donated the land for the first Wharahine school. It formed part of his original land, and was very steep. He was elected to the first official Wharahine Highway Board of 1871-2, then again in 1875-6 and to the triennial road board of 1889-92, then finally
to the 1910-13 board when he was in his seventies. It also confirms that David Came to New Zealand on the Matilda Wattenbach.
Ref 'The Rock and the Sky' by H Mabbett
Kate Sharp, Mrs David Smith, owned a Mule called Stoffel which she often rode to port. She and David were allocated a 80 acre farm which later formed part of Ian (Sam) Dodd's farm. At the time of publication of this book the old Smith farmhouse was still standing screened by a row of century old oak trees. According to this book they had 9 children:
(1) Tattersall (Tattie) married Sol Parkinson and lived in St Benedict St (AK)
(2) Frank Smith married Julia Brennan, was butcher at Wharahine and Port Albert
(3) Mary Smith married Harry Harrison of Auckland and moved away (I think Harry died early and Mary re-married)
(4) Kate Patience Smith (K.P.) married Waldo Smith and lived in Auckland, probably owning tearooms.
(5) William Thomas Kitching Smith who remained single, farming at Wharahine on part of his fathers land which had built up to about 450 acres. He was away for World War I.
(6) Robert Nathan Smith married Lilian Peach. He was also in World War I. He also farmed part of David's land. The couple had 2 children: Charles and Majory. Majory married Sydney White of Auckland and moved away. Charles married Verona May Salt of Birkenhead and with his 2 sons; Colin and Alan, own and operated Smith Transport Ltd.
(7) Lucy Smith married one Peterson of Auckland and moved away.
(8) E.B.V. Smith (middle name Brunette-called Nettie) married one Fenner of Auckland and moved away.
(9) Charles became an engineer in Auckland.
The children went to school at Wharahine:
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Keep the photo's and the info coming it's great to see what they look like finally.
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Keep the photo's and the info coming it's great to see what they look like finally.
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Margaret Tattersall's youngest daughter Jane, married Dawson Smith in 1849 at Salem Chapel in Bradford. They are part of my family.
Dawson's mother is Susannah Aldersley. regards kress
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I kmow about Dawson Smith and Jane.
I have them as having 10 children, is this right!
I have some of the childrens marriages but not all.
Welcome to the family!!!!
They seem to have prospered.
Descendants everywhere!!!
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Hi again,
Dawson's daughter, Mary Smith married a John Smith whose father was Francis Smith of Elslack. John born c1856 in Elslack died 24 December 1889, and Mary remarried. Would this connect to the Francis Smith you are talking about? I have 12 children for Dawson and maybe 13 as I cannot prove the 13th child as yet. There is a big headstone at Undercliff Cemetery for him. Its nice to join a "family" .
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Thats deffinitely our Francis.
Francis was the Enumerator for Elslack on I think 1851 census. So you can have a look at his handwriting.
Francis Smith married Ann Tattersall on 18 sep 1837 Witnesses were Anthony Swire and Elizabeth Tattersall.
They had the following children:
Robert Smith 1839
David Smith Sep 1840 This is Pam's branch of the family(Artemis)
Elizabeth 1845
Margaret Patience Smith
Mary Smith 1849
Thomas 1851 This is my Branch of the family (Rowdy)
Jane 1854
John 1856
Frank 1859
Mariages for the Smith's
1 Robert / Nancy Kenyon Dec 1868 Skipton (4 children)
2 David / see Artemis's posts
3 Elizabeth/ Levi Lee Dec 1874 Bradford (5 children)
4 Margaret Patience/ James Lesiter Savage June 1871 Bradford ( 6 Children)
5 Mary unknown
6 Thomas/ Rebbecca Romans (6 children) June 1872 Bradford
7 Jane/ George S Hollingdrake (6 children) Sep 1874 Bradford
8 John unknown
9 Frank unknown
The whole family moved to Bradford excluding David who dissapeared to New Zealand.
They were mostly butchers
Thomas Smith had a butchers shop on Bridge Street in Bradford. 103
William Francis Smith his son seems to have taken over the business as in 1919 his marriage cert states him as being a butcher living at 103 Bridge St.
I have some marriages for the children and most of the Parents and Ancestors, if you want more let me know.
But our Francis has to be your guy as he was the only Francis Smith living in Elslack at that time.
This is not my line of the family it's my children's and Husbands, I married in.
Helen
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Do you have the marriage cert for John Smith??
If so what info was there?
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Sorry I do not have his marriage certificate, but will sort out some information and give you more on both John & his sister Mary soon.
Byee for now.
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Hi,
John Smith born c1856 died Dec 1889- mar Mary Smith born 1855 died july 1943 issue Jane A E M Smith 1883 - 1968 . Possible dau Margaret Helena Smith born Jan 1887 died Jan 1887 possible son Francis Smith died Dec 1888 aged 1yr.
Mary Smith born c1849 mar Charles Cromwell Christian dec 1881. C C C died mar 1887, Mary remarried to Joseph Edwin Grant Jun 1896.
possible children - Frederick Charles Christian died Dec 1885 (0) Herbert Christian died Jun 1884 (0)
also have some census details for both. Hope this helps to complete the family for you. I am grateful for what I gained.
cheerio from Australia.
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Kress,
I just came upon your correspondence re: Tattersalls. I am intrigued by the line, 'I have a plan of Raygill which is huge." I am an Aldersley and as you may know, Peter Aldersley owned Raygill for a time in the early 1800's. What is the nature of the plan you spoke of?
Regards,
Stephen Aldersley
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Hi,
I will check it out, I have not looked at it for some time. I think it is a floor plan. More after I have looked at it Kress
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Hi Stephen,
The plan is a modern one A3 size, showing both conjoined houses, both floors and a side view. Hope this helps you Kress.
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Hi!
I came across this thread almost by accident.
I am descended from James Lesiter SAVAGE and his wife, Margaret Patience (nee SMITH) and have knowledge on all the descendents of that union.
I intend to go through it in some detail at a later date to find out additional information; in the meantime, is there anyone who knows the origin of Emily LEE, born in 1908, who was a member or a connection of the Smiths of Elslack?
Ernie Savage
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I don't have the future generations of this line only the Ancestors and Patience is from my family line.
One of Patiences Sisters married a Lee!
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Elizabeth Smith Married Levi Lee but he died 1892 so she can't be his child but she could be a sister of his or related in some way to thhis line through him.
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Please could you fill me in on the Lesister Savage line as this has been a difficult one.
I have Margaret Patience and James as having 6 Children and married June Qtr 1871 Bradford.
I have George Savage as the father but no mother and 3 siblings for James
Do you have additional info?
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WoW!
Most of what i have seen is correct and I can certainly fill you in about the descendants of James Lesiter.
I am a bit pushed for time at the moment so i will give you my bit:
His third son, Frederick Charles (Fred, my grandfather) married Sarah Jane Stringer at Listerhills Cong. Chapel 3/8/1901 He died in 1923, Sarah in 1951
They had two sons, both now dead. Charles Lesiter (b28/3/1904)who married, but had no children and my father, Herbert Kenneth (b 31/5/1914). I am Ernest Frederick Aldred Savage (b 5/4/1941), and am his only child and have two sons, Nicholas Henry (b 22/8/1972) and Peter James (b 8/2/1978)
Fred and his brothers seem to have divided the business (pharmacy and wine merchants) between them. It must have been managed intitially by James' widow, Margaret Patience, after his untimely death in 1893 as the children were all young. After Margaret Patience's death in 1918, ther brothers seem to have gone their separate ways
The ony other one of the brothers who had children was James William Savage(Will) who married Florencce Pollard 6/8/1900. I am in touch with one of his grandchildren; there are many descendants.
Harold Savage married twice - Clara Harrison 30/03/1907 They divorced Then he married Catherine Ellwood (Kitty)26/5/1927 he died in 1949
George Smith Savage married Margaret Adelaide Haigh-Lumby 22/10/1912. he died in 1933
Neither of the daughter married, Emily died in 1935, Eleanor in 1941.
On the matter of Emily LEE, I am going to trace the descendants of Levi - it seems most likely that she will be therefrom.
Thanks
E
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Levi's children are
Joseph E 1877 Bradford
Ernest W 1880 Bradford
Jane A 1882 Bradford
John C Lee 1890 Bradford
There is also Bertie David Smith 1867 Elslack who could be Elizabeth's illegitimate son.
I think on later census records he is down as Lee.
Marriage to Elizabeth Dec Qtr 1874 Bradford
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I have the info on Squire Pollard and his wife Mary Beetham
They had 6 children Florence being one of them. (knew about her marriage)
I have Helen Pollard married to a Herbert Raw but no other marriages found to date
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In the 1871 census @ Hill End farm Great Horton. are two households listed; the second is that of Francis SMITH, described as "Farmer"; the other household is headed by Matthew ......[illeg] who is described as "Farmer occupying 8 acres, a small farm even by 19th century standards. I suspect that he and Francis were primarily butchers. Francis gives his place of birth as norton, Ann is recorded Coniston (ie Coniston Cold - I assumed it was the one in Wharfedale and wasted a lot of time trying to trace her there)
Francis returned to Elslack and is buried there. His tombstone, which also commemorates Ann, his wife, who died in Great Horton is in All Saints' chuchyard, Broughton-with-Elslack. Many other tombstones there are of interest.
In 1871 the census indicated that Bertie David is the son of Jane. His is the last entry for the household; the next to last is Jane and under Bertie's entry as `grandson` [i.e. of Francis] is `son of above`. A birth certificate will give the answer of course. Even if she is jane's daughter he could have been adopted by Elizabeth after her marriage.
Elsewhere you state that Jane Lee, born in 1882, and the daughter of Elizabeth [nee Smith] and Levi, obviously not this Jane, is `Jane A` Do you know what the `A` stands for. I am searching for Annie Lee and Emily Lee. The latter referred to the former as `Auntie`. I know she was born in 1908, was probably illegitimate and so may have changed her name; there is no appropriate Emily Lee born in that year.
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James is the youngest child and second son of George Savage, chemist originally from Mansfield, who moved to Bradford in 1871 and bought a business there which he expanded successfully until his early death at the age of 44 in 1893
George is of a long line of middle bourgeoisie in Nottinghamshire, but he married a Yorkshire girl, Mary Ann Sanderson, whose father, James was a tailor in Richmond. Mary Ann died in giving birth to James lesiter (This name came from aconnection by marriage, Joseph Lesiter, a wealthy farmer, who MAY have set James up in business.) Geroge then remarried, Jane Woodcock, the daughter of a solictor in Stafford
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Sorry don't know what the A stands for.
I have been to Elslack also to the church where there are a cluster of graves together all related. Aldersley being some of them I took digital photo's of them and have them on my computer.
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Ernie there where two Thomas Smiths descendants of Francis, I found this out when I went to the graveyard at Broughton.
Thomas Smith born 1843 died 1846 buried at Broughton
The Second Thomas Smith is our line:
Thomas Smith 1851 born Elslack died before 1919 but after 1901 I have his marriage cert and his sons William Francis. He was deceased at the time of his sons marriage in 1919.
William Francis and Daisy Walmsley had one child Living Robinson (nee Smith)
Artemis 1 who's name I will not disclose (without her permission) is a descendant of David Smith son of Francis. You will no doubt gather this from the rest of the thread.
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Rowdy - any chance you could send those pics of the Aldersley graves in the Elslack churchwyard my way? My e-mail is: sfance@rit.edu.
Thanks,
Stephen A.
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This is a reply to myself!!
Death certificate of Peter Aldersley - died 27 Aug 1887 Elslack Moor age 80. J Tattersall nephew in attendance, abode Elslack Moor - was the death informant.
Peter was the son of Jeremiah Aldersley and Ann Stott. J Tattersal (James) was the son of Thomas Tattersall and Margaret Aldersley making Margaret the daughter of Jeremiah and Ann and sister to Peter.
Ann Aldersely (Stott) died 18 Dec 1846 Elslack. Her death informant was Peter Aldersley. Jeremiah died 02 Jan 1847 Elslack and his death informant was also Peter Aldersley.
Ann was 82 and Jeremiah 86.
1841 Census Moor House, Elslack
Jeremiah Aldersley 80 Farmer y
Ann Aldersley 75 y
George Aldersley 50 Ind y
Peter Aldersley 30 y
Sarah Aldersley 25 y
1851 Census Moorhouse, Elslack
Peter Aldersley head mar 43 Farmer 77 acres Lothersdale, Yorkhire
Sarah Aldersley wife 40 Earby, Yorkshire
1881 Census Moor Side Farm, Elslack
Tattersall, James head unmarried 53 farmer Carlton, Yorkshire
Swire, Sarah serv unmarried 54 housekeeper Elslack, Yorkshire
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Hi Artemis, I was very interested in your most recent post in particular because I had no dates for Anne Stott. If she was born in 1764, that would make it reasonably likely that she was the Anne Stott baptized at Askrigg in that year (from LDS). Do you agree? The George Aldersley in the 1841 Census married Mary or Margaret Laycock in 1808. She apparently died young, but I have no information as to whether they had any children. Do you? Last, but not least, I have not been able to track down the birthdate of the Peter Aldersley who married Sarah (Pickles), possibly in 1836. The census data you give suggests he was born in either 1808 or 1811. I assume he would have been born in Lothersdale with his siblings (he was the last of many), but I would love to know for sure. Can you offer any help on that one?
In hopes of further information,
Stephen (Aldersley)
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Dear Stephen, unfortunately I have not been able to locate the information you are asking about, and although your supposition regarding Ann Stott is promising I don't have enough information to confirm this at present. I would love to know how you fit in and what information you have. This is all I have on Jeremiah spouse of Ann Stott.
Jerry Aldersley, farmer, Carlton, was listed in the 1803 Muster Roll for Craven. The muster roll was made at a time when the threat of invasion by Napolean made it necessary to prepare the whole of the active male population for military training. Lists were made of all men between the ages of 17 and 55 arraned in 4 classes.
(1) unmarried men under 30 with no child living under 10 years.
(2) unmarried men between 30 and 49 inclusive with no child living under 10 years old.
(3) married men between 17 and 29 inclusive with not more than 2 children living under 10 years old.
(4) others not included in the above classes.
Jerry belonged to class 4, he would have been 41 at the time and would have had several children under 10.
1841 Census Moor House, Elslack, Yorkshire, England
Jeremiah Aldersley 80 Farmer y
Ann Aldersley 75 y
George Aldersley 50 Ind y
Peter Aldersley 30 y
Sarah Aldersley 25 y
Descendants of Jeremiah Aldersley
1 Jeremiah Aldersley b: 1762 in Carlton-In-Craven, Yorkshire, England d: 02 Jan 1847 in Elslack, Yorkshire, England
.. +Ann Stott b: Abt. 1764 in Yorkshire, England m: 06 Jan 1785 in Kildwick, Yorkshire, Auckland d: 18 Dec 1846 in Elslack, Yorkshire, England
... 2 Patience Aldersley b: 1785 in Carlton in Craven, Yorkshire, England
... 2 [1] George Aldersley b: 1787 in Carlton in Craven, Yorkshire, England d: Aft. 1851
....... +Margaret Unknown b: Abt. 1800 in Patley Bridge, Yorkshire, England
... *2nd Wife of [1] George Aldersley:
....... +Mary Laycock b: in Radnorshire, Ehayader, South Wales m: 26 Oct 1808 in Broughton, Yorkshire, England d: Bet. 1851 - 1861
... 2 John Aldersley b: 1789 in Carlton in Craven, Yorkshire, England d: Bet. 1841 - 1851
....... +Jane Taylor b: Abt. 1795 in Gargrave, Yorkshire, England m: 09 May 1831 in Bradford, Yorkshire, England d: Aft. 1851
... 2 Ann Aldersley b: 1791 in Carlton in Craven, Yorkshire, England
... 2 Margaret (Mary) Aldersley b: 1793 in Carlton in Craven, Yorkshire, England d: 23 Feb 1856 in Elslack, Yorkshire, England
....... +Thomas Tattersall b: 1789 in Coniston Cold, Carlton-In-Craven, Yorkshire, England m: 17 Dec 1812 in Carlton-In-Craven, Yorkshire, England d: 28 Feb 1871 in Elslack, Yorkshire, England
... 2 Mary Aldersley b: 1795 in Carlton in Craven, Yorkshire, England
... 2 Elizabeth Aldersley b: 1797 in Carlton in Craven, Yorkshire, England d: Aug 1797 in Carlton in Craven, Yorkshire, England
... 2 Edmund (Edward) Aldersley b: 1799 in Carlton in Craven, Yorkshire, England d: 20 Apr 1881 in Yorkshire, England
....... +Ann Aldersley b: 29 Sep 1807 in Colne, Lancashire, England m: 24 Nov 1823 in Carlton in Craven, Yorkshire, England d: 18 Dec 1877 in Yorkshire, England
... 2 Jeremiah Aldersley b: 1805 in Carlton in Craven, Yorkshire, England
... 2 Peter Aldersley b: Abt. 1807 in Lothersdale, Carlton in Craven, Yorkshire, England d: 27 Aug 1887 in Elslack Moor, Yorkshire, England
....... +Sarah Pickles b: Abt. 1811 in Earby, Yorkshire, England m: 11 Apr 1836 in Bradford, Yorkshire, England d: 15 Sep 1866 in Yorkshire, England
Would love to hear further from you.
Pam Davidson
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Pam,
I have got more information on the Aldersleys than would readily fit on RootsChat - including a short monograph on Jeremiah and his descendants. If you would like to send me your e-mail address, I'll send it to you.
Stephen Email address removed by moderator to prevent spam - please contact by personal message
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Hi - I'm new to research - and am delighted to have discovered the information on the subject of Margaret Tattersall. I am researching my hushand's family (PARKINSON) and note with interest the information on Ann Tattersall SMITH and Solomon PARKINSON. They were my husband's grandparents and as over the years he has lost contact with his relatives, I am finding research quite a challenge! It's especially great to see the photos of Wharehine and of the Sharpe/Smith wedding that were posted. If anyone can help with my research into the family, I'd love to hear from them.
Cheers,
Gobbolino
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Gobbolino
I must be related to your husband somehow - see my earlier posts. (Margaret) Patience Smith was my great grandmother and her parents - see below, 1861 census) were Francis and Ann (nee Tattersall)
SMITH, Francis Head Married M 38 1813 Farmer Of 60 Acres Of Land
Norton Yorkshire
SMITH, Ann Wife Married F 36 1815 Farmer Wife Coniston Yorkshire
SMITH, Robert Son M 12 1839 Errand Boy Elslack Yorkshire
SMITH, David Son M 10 1841 Scholar Elslack Yorkshire
SMITH, Elizabeth Daughter F 6 1845 Scholar Elslack Yorkshire
SMITH, Patience Daughter F 4 1847 Scholar Elslack Yorkshire
SMITH, Mary Daughter F 2 1849 At Home Elslack Yorkshire
SMITH, Thomas Son M 0 (2 MOS) 1851 At Home Elslack Yorkshire
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Hi,
Have just come across this site and have seen the photo of my G grandparents David Smith at his daughter Kate Patience wedding to Waldo Smith.
David and Kate Sharpe's son Frank David marr Johanna Brennan and their daughter Ivy Margaret is my mother.
Looking to hook up with any rellies out there and swap trees, photos.
Regards,
Wally Bilton
Hamilton, New Zealand
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Dear Wally,
As you will see from the posting above yours, I am your third cousin, once removed, still in England, though on the Lancashire side of the Pennines. On my mother's side I have found relatives in Australia and Canada, so it is nice to know that there are also some in New Zealand. I am not sure how to e-mail `privately` without telling all and sundry what one's address is, but I would be happy to do so.
Ernie
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Once wally has posted a total of 3times, the personal message system will be enabled to him.
[Just don't post private e mail address's on open forum, they could be viewed and result in spam mail being sent to you]
Brian
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Hi cussie Ernie,
Great to hear from you.
See I have to post 3 times before we can exchange details, so looks like 1 more to go.
When I came across this site the last post showed about 2006, have there been any more since that I have missed???
Will post again soon,
Cheers from a very wet and cold Hamilton, NZ.
Wally
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Hi Ernie,
He's the third post, so what happens now???
Looking forward to being able to contact you and find all about my rellies over there.
Regards,
Wally Bilton, Hamilton, NZ
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Hi all,
Have sent 3 replies to Ernie Savage, how do I now let him know my email address so that I can contact him privately.
Regards,
Wally Bilton,
Hamilton, New Zealand
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Clicking onto Wally name I can see that he has not visited Roots since his last post. (April)
Brian