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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Devon => Topic started by: phil56 on Saturday 06 June 15 10:18 BST (UK)
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I would appreciate some expert help !
I am trying to find the baptism record for James Moore. I know from census records in 1871, 1881 and 1891 that he was born in Devonport around 1835. I have identified his wife and children, but I am struggling a little to tie down his parents and siblings and link him to the right family.
He married Mary Sampson Shaw on 21st October 1869 at East Stonehouse, St George. His father is James Moore, both James and his father were mariners of sorts. I think Devonport is in the parish of Stoke Damerel, but neighbouring parishes of Plymouth St Andrews and East Stonehouse may be key to his baptism record. I have not found an obvious baptism record yet on FindMyPast or FamilySearch, I do not have access to the Devon parish registers
I have a hunch on his siblings, I think they are:
Edwin Vincent Marshall Moore b 16 Apr 1826 bapt: 3 Jul 1826 Wesleyan church, Devenport
Valentine Hambleton Moore b 27 Dec 1827 bapt: 3 Mar 1828 Weslayan church, Devenport
Elizabeth Collings Moore b 17 Feb 1830
the two older sons were baptised again in an Anglican church on 27th Oct 1830 together with Elizabeth, parents given as James Moore and Elizabeth.
I did find the following 1841 census record which may be the right one.
Elizabeth Moore aged 45 Seamans wife living at Palace Yard, Stoke Damerel
Elizabeth Moore aged 11
James Moore aged 5
I have not found any of them yet in 1851. Edwin and Valentine show up in subsequent census records as coast guards in Hastings and St Austell
So in summary, I want to find the baptism of James Moore born circa 1835 and prove his parents and siblings. Any help or advice on this case is much appreciated.
Phil.
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Hello
Looking at James junior in 1861 and 1871 censuses he seems to be aboard ship on a Royal navy boat as a Top main Captain.
The National Archives has this Naval record for a James Moore
ADM 188/6/40810
Description:
Name Moore, James
Official Number: 40810
Place of Birth: Devonport, Devon
Date of Birth: 29 September 1835
Date: [1873]
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
And a second record seemingly for the same man.
ADM 139/205/20412
Description:
Name Moore, James
Place of Birth: Devonport, Devon
Continuous Service Number: 20412
Date of Volunteering: 01 March 1855
Date of Birth: 29 September 1835
Date: [1853-1872]
They are available for £3.30 from their website and hopefully would provide more info.
There is also a record for a James Moore born 1819 in Devonport who may well be his father.
ADM 139/126/12535
Description:
Name Moore, James
Place of Birth: Devonport
Continuous Service Number: 12535
Date of Volunteering: 19 May 1854
Date of Birth: 18 March 1819
Date: [1853-1872]
They could both be worth a look.
Ciderdrinker
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Here's the mother and sister in 1851
Hollow Yard Stoke Damerel
John Hicks 30 cordwainer Truro
Celia 31 Morrigassy
Maria 10 Devonport
Colin 2 same
Sophia 8 mths
Elizabeth Moore visitor widow 58 Kingsbridge
Elizabeth Collings Moore 21 millner Devonport.
1861 4 Palace Yard Stoke Damerel
Elizabeth Moore widow 62 fish vender Devonport
Elizabeth 22 boot shoe maker (childrens) Devonport.
1871 no 8 Palace Yard
Elizabeth Moore widow 79 supported by daughter Stoke Damerel
Elizabeth 40 bootmaker same deaf.
Ciderdrinker
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ciderdrinker, many thanks for the information provided.
The TNA naval records for James look very likely to be him, I may order them. I think the TNA record for James Moore born in 1819 is probably someone else, as the birth date makes him too young, especially if Elizabeth Collings Moore and the two older brothers are siblings of James.
Thank you also for finding later census records for Elizabeth Collings Moore and her mother. It looks like her mother dies in Dec quarter of 1871 aged 80. Elizabeth Collings Moore marries William Manicom in 1880 aged 50 and dies in Mar quarter of 1903 aged 73.
I could do with finding James junior in 1851 and of course his baptism record.
If his parents are James and Elizabeth, I also need to find their marriage.
I am grateful for the help you have provided so quickly, thank you.
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Not sure if this is the correct person but thought I would offer it as a possibility:
Name: James Moore
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 5 Jun 1835
Birth Place: Newport Street Particular Baptist,Tiverton,Devon,England
Father: Philip Moore
Mother: Sarah Pitt
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The baptists at Tiverton were known as Peculiar Baptists not Particular Baptists
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Dragonlady,
thank you for offering that possibility in Tiverton, however I will rule it out. I know that his father was James Moore almost certainly married to an Elizabeth with siblings as I mentioned in my original post. Very probable naval records at TNA suggest a birth date of 29th Sept 1835 in Devonport.
The two records I really want to track down are 1) James Moore's baptism after Sept 1835 2) the marriage of his parents James Moore to Elizabeth, probably before 1826.
Phil.
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May have found the marriage for James and Elizabeth.
27 Sep 1821, Maker, Now in Cornwall, just over the water from Plymouth. James Moore to Elizabeth Collings.
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Devon Maid,
fantastic, thank you so much, :) :) :)I am sure it must be the right one. I spent ages looking at an A3 size print of all the parishes in Devon, particularly around Plymouth and I never thought to look over the County boundary ! Elizabeth started having children from July 1822 including daughter Elizabeth in 1830 who was given the middle name of Collings, mother's maiden name.
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Hello phil56
Did you get any further with this? I am particularly interested in whether you proved the marriage or not.
I am coming at it from Edwin's direction, as his descendant, and hit an impasse with the parents (James and Eliz). I managed to get baptism records in Devonport for Edwin and Valentine, but none for any subsequent children.
I recently had a mini break-through when I discovered that the children were all sent to Royal Hospital Greenwich, a school for children of naval service men which sent the boys on to serve themselves. The application form then confirmed the Palace Yard address, and allowed me to match James Moore Sr to a naval service record, but the only additional info that gave was a place of birth in Litchfield. It seems that he died between 1837 and 1841, but I can't yet prove that.
I'm puzzled by the location of the marriage if Eliz came from Kingsbridge. I also think it is strange that they are visitors in the 1851 census, but in Palace yard in 1841 and 1861. Did you get any further?
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Forgot to mention that the school application form confirmed a sibling James as 2yrs 6 months as at December 1837, which seems to match and support your links so far.
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hi revereidlehands,
I did make more progress with this. The information posted by Devon Maid on 7th June showing Elizabeth Collings and James Moore senior married on 27th Sept 1821 in Maker just over the county boundary in Maker, Cornwall is correct. I found a transcription on FindMyPast which confirmed this, I have not seen the actual image, but it all seems right to me.
I dont think Elizabeth came from Kingsbridge, I know it says that on the 1851 census, but suspect that may be incorrect. 1861 census has her birth place as Devonport and 1871 census has Stoke Damerel. On FindMyPast I did find a probable baptism record for Elizabeth dated 24 June 1791, parents Joseph and Christian Collings, location, Plymouth, Charles the Martyr Anglican church.
I also purchased the naval service record of James Moore junior (Edwin's brother) from The National Archives which confirmed his date of birth as 29 Sept 1835 and shows the ships he served on up to 1873. I can send you the file privately if you wish.
I did not manage to find a baptism record for James which was what I originally was looking for when I posted, but thanks to extra research and the help of others here, I made good further progress and was happy with the info I found.
About a year ago, I went to TNA Kew and found the Greenwich Hospital School admission papers for several of my own naval ancestors which really helped me with my paternal line.
Best Wishes, Phil.