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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lincolnshire => Topic started by: Wendus on Wednesday 03 June 15 19:55 BST (UK)
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Phyllis B Johnston apparently had 4 marriages, in Surrey (to H Brown), Grimsby (to H Cliffe), Grimsby (to W Morton?) and Hampstead (to P Griffiths) respectively. A daughter was born into the second marriage, between Phyllis and Henry T Cliffe. She was born in 1947 in Surrey.
It is possible, but by no means 100% certain, that when the daughter was 5 years old, her then step-father adopted her and changed her surname to his. I'd be interested and very grateful to hear from anyone who may be able to tell me more about Phyllis and/or, more especially her daughter.
Many thanks :)
I have also posted this on another board as I am 'clutching at straws' here, and as the family were in both areas, I'm not sure which one would be best ... so opted for both.
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Duplicate post on London and Middlesex board
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=722193.0
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Is this her death, and have you got the certificate?
Phyllis B Griffiths, age 56, died June quarter 1964, Isle of Wight
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Chempat, it's possible, but I don't have any certificates as the research is being done on behalf of someone else and the initial information I was given to work with was very scant indeed.
Thank you ever so much for your interest, and I'll follow that lead to see if it throws any more light on the puzzle.
Thank you again :)
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Are these correct?
You have her marrying as Phyllis B Johnston in 1939 to Brown, (Surrey)
Marrying as Phyllis Brown to Cliffe in Grimsby in 1945,
Marrying as Phyllis Cliffe or Brown to Morton in Grimsby in 1952.
and marrying as Phyllis B Johnston and Phyllis B Brown to Griffiths, also in 1952 (Hampstead)
Are marriages 1 and 4 distinct from marriages 2 and 3?
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Any child of Phyllis Johnston should have the mother's maiden name on the records as Johnston - does the birth you have for the daughter of Mr Cliffe have Johnston or Brown?
Looks like Brown to me - wrong mother
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Marrying as Phyllis Cliffe or Brown to Morton in Grimsby in 1952.
and marrying as Phyllis B Johnston and Phyllis B Brown to Griffiths, also in 1952 (Hampstead)
That also can't be right can it - you couldn't have two marriages in the same year?
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If a husband died you could perhaps sneak another marriage in.
I was just trying to work out what was claimed to have happened.
Looks like 2 separate women, each marrying 2 times.
Only - which surname did the daughter perhaps change her surname to?
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I agree Chempat, that daughter's birth doesn't look right as the mother's maiden name is Brown, not Johnston.
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Thanks for your interest everyone, I'm very grateful.
However, the story may have moved on a way. It is possible that:
a) Phyllis wasn't English but Brazilian, in which case she might have got confused as to what surname to put where, and in none of her subsequent marriages did she call herself Cliffe!
b) It is possible that her marriage to Morton was annulled.
We are also now wondering whether she HAD to keep getting married in order to avoid being sent back to Brazil. It's a very obscure hypothesis, but not entirely out of the question, maybe?
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Why do you think she was Brazilian - Phyllis B Johnston doesn't sound a very Brazilian name? When was she born?
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If the death that I found was correct, I could not see an appropriate birth for a Phyllis B Johnston in around 1908 - supporting the idea that she may have been born overseas. (Do not think I could see her in 1911 either)
The first marriage that you suggested for her was in 1939, making her over 30 at that time - slightly old, but interesting if linked to marrying at start of war years.
It might help if you could say how your contact has linked to Phyllis and the daughter. I can see how she may believe that the daughter changed her surname, but some certificates are needed, as there are lots of other possibilities to explain the subsequent marriages.
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Do you believe that this is Phyllis?
Phyllis Beauchamp Johnston age 28 Departure Date 22 July 1939 from Liverpool to Santos Brazil.
Last address in England in Bassett, Southampton.
Brazilian citizen intending to stay in England.
Better age - born about 1911
(Just found her in 1911, but cannot post)
Added;
also travelled with her Mother Jessie Elizabeth Johnston age 26 in 1916. (Wartime)
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This death?
Never married - wrong person?
Phyllis Beauchamp Johnston born January 1st 1911 died September quarter 1978 at Southampton, Hampshire
Probate:
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=johnston&yearOfDeath=1978&page=4#calendar
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We found her!
Grateful thanks for all your interest, but we have found who we're looking for! After discounting the multitude of red herrings, it turns out that the marriage to Morton was the correct one, and the daughter used that surname henceforward. We then found the daughter's marriage and then her listing in the latest electoral registers. We even discovered photos!
Result! ;D
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Brilliant, so does that mean that she didn't marry 4 times? Was she Brazilian?
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Groom ... no she wasn't Brazilian and she didn't marry four times, although she did marry at least twice, but not to Mr Griffiths. Couldn't believe how many people had the same names, dates, places etc, it has been a real maze to get through, lol.
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The daughter is on facebook with a picture of the wedding of 1952 - presumably that is what you have found?
Weddings were much simpler then, but I really like the clothes.
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Chempat - yes, that was one of the things we found.